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Is This a Copyright Violation?

4 points by pixelgeek ↗ HN
A few months ago I posted an online dice rolling application for a tabletop miniature game that I play.

https://actasf.netlify.app

It is just a quick app that I put together with JQuery and Bootstrap. It isn't finished and I posted it to netlify to get some feedback from users. It is a test version. The game is fun but I find the hit and damage process to be a bit tedious so I wrote this app to make it simpler.

While it was being developed I posted some screenshots of it and had the company that produces the game, Amarillo Design Bureau, tell me that it violated their copyrights.

I asked for specific references to the material and what copyrights it violated but never got a response. AFAICT there is no copyright protection for names and numbers. I searched the trademark database t make sure that I wasn't inadvertently referencing a trademark.

The company is a small 'mom and pop' operation (well just pop now as mom retired) and so I made sure that I wasn't adding anything to the app that would make it possible to play the game without having a copy of the rules.

Today they sent a DMCA takedown threat to me. I reiterated by belief that none of the material on the site is covered by any copyright or other intellectual property rights and again asked for specifics of the supposed violations.

Am I correct that the material I am using is not covered by copyright? It is just numbers and names from a game.

10 comments

[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 37.0 ms ] thread
aurizon
Perhaps they want to lay claim to it and use it for themselves and this is how they start, even though it is done by you? Watch their site and see?
pixelgeek
To be honest if they wanted to host it I wouldn't mind. If it gets more players aware of it and helps promote the game then its a good thing.

Once I am finished this it will be posted to Github and released under the MIT license as the game has a lot of different variants and other folks have expressed an interest in using it.

They aren't the most technical folks though so I would be surprised if that was the case. Their website is a mess of 404s and bad links and they don't even know how to go through their error logs to find them to fix them.

aurizon
Yes, I see, confused people...
pixelgeek
I've even emailed them again to remind them that I have no issue with them hosting and branding the app
detaro
Game companies seem to be really jumpy about any piece of data from the rule books, so they probably dislike you having preset stats instead of having players enter it themselves.

Would be worth checking what exactly apps for Warhammer etc get away with: If they survive against Games Workshop's legal department, that's IMHO a reasonable argument for what you can do at least.

From a community sentiment/personal relationship/... perspective, can't tell for the specific case. I'm a bit surprised a one-man show isn't willing to at least talk, but who knows how the initial communication went and was perceived.

pixelgeek
There are fan made files for apps like Battlescribe and Army Builder for all of the GW games. The people that make the apps don't distribute the files but Games Workshop has never stopped the distribution of the files.

Mongoose Publishing, which made the original A Call to Arms games has long allowed pages like Burger's Ship Viewer

http://ibisfightclub.ml

which not only does the same sort of dice rolling but also includes much more data about the game and the vessels in it.

And to be clear, I haven't posted any of the stats for any of the ships in the A Call to Arms Star Fleet game. I have details of the weapons but you still need to refer to the stats in the published books to know how many dice those weapons have on a particular ship.

bediger4000
I'm pretty sure you can't tell without a trial. This is one of the uglier aspects of the US copyright regime.
pixelgeek
Well right or not anyone can take an issue to trial :-)
ksaj
From their website: "While ACTASF is intended for use with tabletop miniatures, you could substitute counters for the ships if you want to give the game a try."

Isn't this along the lines of what you've done?

pixelgeek
I haven't even gone that far. You can't play the full game with the info that I provide. What my app does is automate the process of rolling to hit and damage but you still need to know what is doing the firing and that information isn't in the app.