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Ask HN: How to "seed" new social network with non-users.

14 points by starter ↗ HN
Currently developing a site which allows users to sign up, invite friends etc. My network's redeeming factor is that it allows active users to manually add people within their network to their list of "contacts" even if they aren't yet registered.

This action will automatically creates a wiki-like profile for non-active users until they sign up. Only then will that profile become dynamic, actively allowing friend requests and message activity.

My dilemma? Even if well built, an empty social networking application is not a social networking site at all. So, let's say I have a school network of 4,000 people. What is a good, legal method of placing these people (photos and all) into the directory before they become active users?

29 comments

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JoachimSchipper
To the best of my knowledge, there's no way to do this. Which is good, because I'd be very annoyed if you added me without explicit consent.

Also, there are few general social networks, and there are good reasons for that.

starter
Wrong. There is always a way to do something right. FB added a few thousand Harvard students into one directory. Were they wrong?

I know. I'm asking only because I think I have a better site, a better business model and passion for connecting people. I can do this better.

JoachimSchipper
I seem to recall that what Facebook did violated at least (the university's?) copyright, but IANAL (nor even a resident of the US). Either way, I would likely have complained about their actions/asked for my data to be removed/filed a DMCA takedown if I were in Harvard at the time, and would recommend that you not look to Facebook's early days as an example to emulate.

I understand that you have the best of intentions, though, and wish you good luck. Just leave me out of it.

starter
Of course, I understand. At least you get my mission.

Thanks for your opinion. I'll find a way to do this right.

lpnotes
I'd suggest e-mailing students from the school network as a marketing strategy, providing them with a Facebook Connect link, and hoping they'll be interested enough to sign up.
starter
Thanks for your input but that "marketing strategy" lacks a certain amount of clear execution that I'll be needing to rapidly gain solid market share. Why sit around "hoping" for signups when I can guarantee registrations?
lpnotes
What I'm saying is all opinion, of course -- not tested. But my gut reaction is that giving students ownership over sign-up (as long as the process is very simple) is less obtrusive than having automatic profiles. Anyhow, the real test is what would draw them to revisit the network. Informing them that a profile exists might draw them to the site, but tests nothing about how valuable the site would truly be.
nolite
I would hate you and your site if you put my photos and info in there without my consent..
starter
Of course, I understand your hate for this concept - I would hate me too if I was doing this in the name of spam.

I'm not. I'm simply searching for a way to indicate that a user is in my contact list before they've actually signed up and added data their profile. Maybe "seeding" is the wrong term.

pagekalisedown
It's common for bar and club owners to hire models to hang out in newly opened establishments to attract people. I'd do something similar.
starter
Thanks for your input but I'm not into trying to spoof people into using my product with dollars. I really just want to build a social product that is worth using (more than FB).

Or, Maybe I can get popular students to actively use my network. Who knows?

andygarcia12265
You may want to consider a service like ProComments: http://www.procomments.com
starter
Its interesting but my network is a closed network. Besides, why would I build a product that needs "fake" users.

My aim is not to build a network that seems active but to build something active users will benefit from immediately.

fraserharris
The usual strategy is to make it very exclusive, but let it be known that it exists. Exclusivity is a powerful motivator. Start with one group of very interesting and highly motivated people and move outwards.
starter
This is true. Uncertainty lies in discovering a large, highly motivated group of interesting people. Any ideas?
fraserharris
You said high school? Who likes to gossip most...
starter
Excellent point! Thanks...
snide
At one point I ran a social network around cars. Basically people would upload pics of their ride and attach all the gear that went into the car. I personally didn't own a car or know much about them, so what to do?

I ended up going in person to a bunch of meetup groups in the SF area with a Polaroid and digital camera. I'd ask dudes if they minded if I took pictures of their cars for my website. I'd take a bunch with the digital camera and then take one with the polaroid. I'd then write down a user/pass on the back of it along with the site's URL. Then I'd go home that night and build separate profiles for each car.

We got hundreds of user profiles this way. After a couple months we had a decent little community. Enough to scare our largest competitor into making an offer on the site.

When it comes to social networks, it's often much easier to market outside of your terminal.

starter
Brilliant! Only difference is that I need each profile, actively used or not, to represent a specific individual. Any ideas?
Vmabuza
Before i can lend an opnion i would like to know what is the aim of this site.Are you creating another facebook or what? And why would people want to use your site ,whats in it for them?
starter
A wise man, you are. Not another Facebook!

My network specifically scratches a personal itch by allowing extensive "profiling" of people in my social network. FB is focused on allowing self expression through an aging set of rigid channels (Wall, Games, Notes etc.).

My network will be based initially on letting you add to a user's profile with wiki-like ease. For instance, you'll be able to add private margin notes that only show for you on Friend A's profile. That's just the beginning.

Why people will use my site? Not sure, yet. More important is building a site I want to use! Hence my desire to add "passive" user profiles. This way, I can visualize my entire social network whether they exist online or not.

Vmabuza
I still dont understand exactly what you are trying to ''sell'' but i understand that you might be trying to protect your idea with some vagueness. In view of the above i can say the following. 1. Use facebook connect and allow users to post their activities on their wall (not automatically though because you'll be banned) 2. Target 2 schools close to each other and ensure scholars in those schools use whatever it is you ''selling'' 3.Get inside info on the popular kids in that school and pay them to use your app for a month or 2.
starter
Right. You'll appreciate that I'm working on an entirely different model for generating income. Something about the way personal data gets crawled in the name of targeted advertising annoys me and you, I'm sure.

Won't be using #1 since I don't see FB as the solid rock is seems to be. Orkut tanked. Myspace died. FB is mortal, too.

I like #2 & #3. First, I must decide which schools to launch at and why. How am I to decide which locations are best for solid, explosive growth?

Another problem: Should I target HS students who are likely newer to FB or University students who have been on FB for years and have many friends?

WalterSear
Don't.
starter
I understand your dislike but this is NOT about mis-using personal data to inflate my network. Think about this: What's the good of having a social networking application without a complete social network??

Its simple: I desire a solid option for creating "passive" profiles so that the early majority of users can see the not-yet-active late majority. See the vision?

soundslikeneon
It makes perfect sense, but there's a problem with this approach. The information in the passive profiles will be nothing new to most users, who already have their friends' contact info and an idea of what they all look like. So a pre-populated social network like the one you're talking about would be much closer to a phone-directory than anything truly "social."

And I know that passive profiles are supposed to be there as a crutch for early adopters, but it doesn't seem to add much in the way of value or positive UX. If anything, having the site start as a directory might just perpetuate its use as one.

starter
Ok, but what are you suggesting? An empty network with each user having maybe 5-10 friends within the first 24 hours? Won't last.

Bottom line is this: If "Johnny" can't find something on that cute brunette from Arts 101, We're toast. Get it?

I'm not trying to make full profiles for inactive users. I'm simply searching for a method to allow "Johnny" to find "Katy" within seconds of joining my social network. He clicks "add", she gets an email message. Done.

Mz
I've had people search for my email address on facebook, which I have an account for but really don't use. I've also recently gotten an email indicating someone was looking for my email on Twitter. I considered signing up for it but couldn't get the info I needed to feel comfortable with it so never finished the process, even though I was flattered that this person was interested in following what I am up to. Maybe you could do a notification email like Twitter sends when someone searches and you don't yet have an account but with a better explanation of it all so the invitee feels more motivated/comfortable? IE try Twitter's approach but try to improve on their model.
starter
Got it. This gets really close. Someone searches for you - you get a clean, well organized email request. Beautiful!