I see we've come full circle and are bringing back the good old fashioned company town complete with a company store. It's only a matter of time before they start paying in company dollars. As a matter of fact I once did business with a company acquired by Amazon several years after that acquisition. They offered my struggling bootstraped company AWS credits in lieu of payment after payment in dollars had already been agreed to... and work had been performed.
Maybe we're close to peak late-stage capitalism or maybe it can go further, only time will tell.
I'm worried because we are now in a hyper individualistic society were everyone's living in their own bubble. Will we be able to form Unions like the last time and save ourselves from this slavery?
It’ll take another generation to even be okay with the idea of unions. By then all the billionaires will be in New Zealand or elsewhere and their hoard will be untouchable.
And so you'd like to replace it with another monopoly corporation, except one that has an authoritarian internal structure instead of a democratic one?
Both are organizations, and we are deep enough into capitalism at this point, that we measure every organization by how it would fare as a corporation. This isn't necessarily bad, but only one way to look at it.
As a person who considers themselves democratic, I think every citizen should be an equal shareholder in government Inc. And maybe things would be a bit better if the have-nots were bigger shareholders in other corporations, too.
No, what made you think that? Follow up question to yours: are you talking about literal anarchists (ie. people who don't want a government) or just libertarians (people who want less government)?
>are you talking about literal anarchists...or just libertarians?"
Probably less binary and anywhere along that continuum. That is, it's a question of degree wherein my concerns go up the closer things get to zero.
It's difficult to discuss in earnest without somewhat painstakingly specific scenarios, but the gist of my comment was that as you shed government, its powers don't simply disappear; they're redistributed elsewhere. And, given that our government is (at least theoretically) by the people, we're really talking about relinquishing the power of the individual to corporations.
Taking it back to the topic of this thread ("Amazon factory towns"), I believe that's essentially what the country would become—wholly owned by corporations.
I don't believe in the concept of corporate personhood and I don't think corporations need more power, so I don't believe that's a good outcome.
There are lots of powers which if shed would not be picked up by somebody else. For example if you remove the government's ability to grant FISA warrants for wiretaps, that does not suddenly grant wiretapping powers to other entities. Shut down the EPA and no one gains the ability to regulate sulphur emissions. Shut down the FDA and no one gains the authority to stop drugs from going to market. Shut down the patent office and no one gains the ability to grant patents.
There are cases where the government is actively limiting other entities abilities to abuse their powers. For example you want to restrict who a power company can shut off service to so they don't extort people in the middle of winter. Giving up the regulation of such utilities would simply be a power transfer (no pun intended). But this represents only a small fraction of the governments powers, and in general unregulated means exactly that.
Fascinating. So do you think government is essentially doing a great job at protecting freedom and maintaining decentralized power structures? Or are they too busy building company towns?
can't wait to go get my Bezos bucks after a hard days work at the warehouse, watch some prime, play some games on twitch, read some amazon store approved books on my kindle.
Are there any theatres, museums or bars or political organizations in my company town? Probably not, that might give people bad ideas, and the booze is bad for productivity
Turns out the 21st century looks like the 1890s, there is no new thing under the sun
We optimize for 2 things politically, one being jobs (which we have enough of right now), and a far second being wages.
Livability, affordability, social cohesion, work life balance, cost of living relative to wages, and a safety net are all not even on the list. That $18 an hour you can earn probably doesn’t get you a 1 bedroom rental apartment unless it’s in the middle of nowhere. 6 figure incomes are priced out of housing markets, outbid by corporate cash offers from the likes of Zillow, Bain, and private equity who are flipping entire neighborhoods. It feels like the basis of society has fallen by the wayside in order to give nation state money and power to a few individuals. Only when income inequality starts to go down will any of these trends reverse, and we’re not near the peak yet. I really don’t see any reason to believe that America will be a superpower in the next 30, let alone 100 years. And maybe that’s what it needs to focus on the livelihoods of its citizens.
No doubt that, by the time all is accounted for, the employees will end up owing more than they make, and Amazon will offer low interest* payday advance loans.
I honestly could never understand the focus on jobs and employment as a primary measure.
Like if we said, employment is necessary so people can make a living, no problem.
If we said, employment is necessary to get essential work done, also no problem.
But we actually do neither. Instead, employment seems to be a goal of its own. A company is worth saving if it "provides jobs". Nevermind if those jobs have no benefit to society and don't provide employees with a living wage, all that counts is that they are jobs...
The rest of the west and China is far worse with this affordability shit than the US. The US will die be the last to die. China is far more unequal than the US and pulls this type of shit way more often yet it’s considered rising?
This is the accelerationism that the long long long loud & angry barricades against governmental social safety-netting have made necessary.
I actually think this is going to improve things, for a couple decades. Because governments most-of-the-world-over are being prevented from caring for their people. Because states & municipalities cant do good things, can't try good actions. There has been pervasive, loud, angry resistance to caring for people, to trying to make things better.
So that's accelerationism. It's making things worse. It's letting neofuedal Bezosvilles spring up, because the governments have been prevented from trying. Someone can try, and they'll probably do a better job than the nothing that has been let happen for a bunch of decades now. In the US, part to blame: a 245 year old big state / small state compromise, and by the need for veto-proof majority to get anything at all done.
I hate this. The world hasn't been allowed to try much. It's been obstructed. This neofeudalism is at least some kind of chance to try something, and chances have all been denied, for my entire life. I'm very sad about this, all of it. I want change & improvement to be possible, want helping to be possible. I want other chances to be possible, to improve things. I don't see how that will ever happen. So it's left to Bezosvilles to try & be the only source of innovation & change, since everything else has been roadblocked.
DENNIS: What I object to is that you automatically treat me like an inferior ...
ARTHUR: Well ... I AM king.
DENNIS: Oh, very nice. King, eh! I expect you've got a palace and fine clothes and courtiers and plenty of food. And how d'you get that? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the social and economic differences in our society! If there's EVER going to be any progress ...
This is an opinion article from Bloomberg — all Amazon is doing is opening fulfillment centers in places where it’s economically viable as far as I can tell?
They made a documentary about this called 'Sorry to Bother You' by director Boots Riley. In the movie they renamed Amazon to 'WorryFree' to see how people would react to the idea of company towns in the 21st century. You know, to help people be more objective... The docu is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XthLQZWIshQ
39 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 110 ms ] threadMaybe we're close to peak late-stage capitalism or maybe it can go further, only time will tell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town
We'll be living in a company country.
As a person who considers themselves democratic, I think every citizen should be an equal shareholder in government Inc. And maybe things would be a bit better if the have-nots were bigger shareholders in other corporations, too.
Private companies competing each other to provide the best service?
Probably less binary and anywhere along that continuum. That is, it's a question of degree wherein my concerns go up the closer things get to zero.
It's difficult to discuss in earnest without somewhat painstakingly specific scenarios, but the gist of my comment was that as you shed government, its powers don't simply disappear; they're redistributed elsewhere. And, given that our government is (at least theoretically) by the people, we're really talking about relinquishing the power of the individual to corporations.
Taking it back to the topic of this thread ("Amazon factory towns"), I believe that's essentially what the country would become—wholly owned by corporations.
I don't believe in the concept of corporate personhood and I don't think corporations need more power, so I don't believe that's a good outcome.
There are cases where the government is actively limiting other entities abilities to abuse their powers. For example you want to restrict who a power company can shut off service to so they don't extort people in the middle of winter. Giving up the regulation of such utilities would simply be a power transfer (no pun intended). But this represents only a small fraction of the governments powers, and in general unregulated means exactly that.
Where is the competition when Amazon (or whoever else) is employer, landlord, bank, store and city government at the same time?
https://www.amazon.com/Warehouse-Novel-Rob-Hart/dp/198482380...
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
Are there any theatres, museums or bars or political organizations in my company town? Probably not, that might give people bad ideas, and the booze is bad for productivity
Turns out the 21st century looks like the 1890s, there is no new thing under the sun
Livability, affordability, social cohesion, work life balance, cost of living relative to wages, and a safety net are all not even on the list. That $18 an hour you can earn probably doesn’t get you a 1 bedroom rental apartment unless it’s in the middle of nowhere. 6 figure incomes are priced out of housing markets, outbid by corporate cash offers from the likes of Zillow, Bain, and private equity who are flipping entire neighborhoods. It feels like the basis of society has fallen by the wayside in order to give nation state money and power to a few individuals. Only when income inequality starts to go down will any of these trends reverse, and we’re not near the peak yet. I really don’t see any reason to believe that America will be a superpower in the next 30, let alone 100 years. And maybe that’s what it needs to focus on the livelihoods of its citizens.
*Not actually low interest after the first month
Like if we said, employment is necessary so people can make a living, no problem.
If we said, employment is necessary to get essential work done, also no problem.
But we actually do neither. Instead, employment seems to be a goal of its own. A company is worth saving if it "provides jobs". Nevermind if those jobs have no benefit to society and don't provide employees with a living wage, all that counts is that they are jobs...
I actually think this is going to improve things, for a couple decades. Because governments most-of-the-world-over are being prevented from caring for their people. Because states & municipalities cant do good things, can't try good actions. There has been pervasive, loud, angry resistance to caring for people, to trying to make things better.
So that's accelerationism. It's making things worse. It's letting neofuedal Bezosvilles spring up, because the governments have been prevented from trying. Someone can try, and they'll probably do a better job than the nothing that has been let happen for a bunch of decades now. In the US, part to blame: a 245 year old big state / small state compromise, and by the need for veto-proof majority to get anything at all done.
I hate this. The world hasn't been allowed to try much. It's been obstructed. This neofeudalism is at least some kind of chance to try something, and chances have all been denied, for my entire life. I'm very sad about this, all of it. I want change & improvement to be possible, want helping to be possible. I want other chances to be possible, to improve things. I don't see how that will ever happen. So it's left to Bezosvilles to try & be the only source of innovation & change, since everything else has been roadblocked.
ARTHUR: Well ... I AM king.
DENNIS: Oh, very nice. King, eh! I expect you've got a palace and fine clothes and courtiers and plenty of food. And how d'you get that? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the social and economic differences in our society! If there's EVER going to be any progress ...
[mzonline.com/bin/view/Python/HolyGrailScene3/] (quickly located with: https://search.marginalia.nu/
What am I missing?