You might think, "That's a no-brainer." When the racial shakedowns start costing 137 million a pop, you have no choice but to get out.
Problem is: Texas is going the same way as California. Tesla (and every other fat target) might want to leapfrog and go straight to Tennessee or something.
Just as one's votes don't represent a sponsorship of every policy of the party they voted for, I think it's a stretch to say scaling business in the state represents a sponsorship of their social polices.
If anything, Tesla will be brining a bunch of blue voters from CA which could help to push back against such laws.
>I think it's a stretch to say scaling business in the state represents a sponsorship of their social polices
It is sponsorship in the most literal sense: the taxes paid by the company are propping up that state's administration and its policies. It's voting with one's feet.
The potential migration wave of blue voters is just a positive side effect.
Anyone who feels strongly about it is welcome to boycott Tesla and buy another vehicle from . . . I guess no vehicle for you since it seems every car company is based in areas that are more protective of life, but I suppose that's good because public transit is better in every way to even the "greenest" EV.
Moving factories and headquarters isn't fast, they've been talking about this for years. The anti-choice legislation is very recent. Also, Biden just blocked it, so the laws you don't like might even be rolled back by the time they get there.
Low income taxes are good for employees and very lax labor laws are good for the company, but both aren't good for the employee and the company isn't affected by the former.
Lax labor laws are incredibly good for the employee as it contributes to more opportunities and thus upward pressure on wages. In states with lax labor laws, it’s not who you know but what you know.
>Lax labor laws are incredibly good for the employee as it contributes to more opportunities and thus upward pressure on wages. In states with lax labor laws, it’s not who you know but what you know.
> Who has had faster wage growth over the past 10 years- France or China?
The one that started out less fully industrialized, because of the opportunity to import technology and make catch-up gains, as one would expect if labor laws had no contribution.
It was a mixed faith question. We both know the answer. It was rhetorical.
That point isn't that labor laws are bad. They save a lot of lives. But if you have a lot of laws that stifle productivity, such as (important) OSHA laws, it's natural that wage growth will be stifled as well.
For instance, truckers would make a lot more money if our labor laws let them drive more hours per day, or at a faster speed limit. But we don't let them do that and therefore their productivity and wage potential are capped.
There aren't going to be any citations about this, because there's no point in studying it. It's just plain old deductive reasoning.
I'm sure many people will agree that sacrificing people's lives for higher productivity and wage potential isn't great and it's kind of exploitative.
Furthermore, for many white collar professions, which are among the main productivity boosters and growers, time spent on the job is counterproductive past a certain point.
Agreed, California is a disaster if you're a small company trying to hire employees. If you hire top talent, great; if you end up with poor performing and toxic employee, almost impossible to fire them without fearing a multi-million dollar lawsuit taking your entire business with it. The thing you spent many years working towards can get snitched by badapples that take advantage of California laws.
California has some of the best and smart people but the Government of California has been nothing but a disaster on all fronts - crime, cost of living, ease of business, upward mobility, public transportation, the entire gamut.
The votes of Texans led to Texas labor laws and the votes of Californians led to California labor laws. The movement of people and companies around the country are another kind of vote. Live where you want and hopefully you can prosper there.
Also, pragmatically, if this means that more tech workers end up relocating to Texas, this will hasten the shift in Texan politics. Most tech workers are left-leaning if only because educated people are left-leaning.
And let's be honest, if you are working for a salary, the Republican party does not represent your interests.
Given how covid is currently affecting Texas, the next election cycles are going to be interesting.
If Tesla is moving it’s headquarters to get away from the unfavorable political landscape of California, why would it want to hasten a shift in Texas politics to something that resembles California?
Liberal social politics doesn't necessarily equate to liberal economic politics. As highly paid engineers tend to also be affected by high taxes, etc. it's possible we'll see a move towards liberal social policies (i.e. abortion) while business law more-or-less stays put.
Very true. That's why I said social and economic policy doesn't _necessarily_ equate. There's a connection, but not 1:1.
Like all states, Texas wastes more than enough money for it be a consistent position to simultaneously support better health care while resisting higher taxes.
Tech workers are more educated because cities are more educated and cities and colleges are always more liberal. But being “liberal” doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone. You brought up covid, lockdowns which restrict freedom is not “liberal” or liberating in any way.
Sorry I don’t mean to say that there aren’t educated people in rural areas, but the trend is generally your point of concentration. Many people look down on farmers despite many being extremely educated. But certain educational backgrounds are more valued in societal perceptions.
The opposite of cities and the college educated. I’m not looking to call you wrong or contradict you.
They have the right to choose their own lives. If you value the fundamental of American freedom, allow them to live and die as they see fit.
Obviously Tesla corporate won’t be pushing for a shift in Texas politics. But I would guess the majority of people Tesla would bring to Texas to fill their roles would support a more liberal version of Texas. I think that’s what OP was saying.
It is like those refugees. They screwed up their own. Then decide to make it like their own in new country. That is what will happen to Texas. Purple state. Gonna turn into Dems run ghettos soon.
Politics is so toxic. Politicians do not represent your interests, they represent the interests of themselves. I live in Chicago, a Democratic city in a democratic state and the people here value freedom to choose their own lives, to not have lockdowns, to cheer for the oppression of fellow citizens is not in the interest of anyone I am in favor of.
What morals do you stand for when oppressing people’s individuality under the guise of any political reason? You wouldn’t cheer for others forcing your actions, would you?
The appeal to education is pretty lazy and incorrect given people with PhD educations are the most likely group to be hesitant of the vaccine. [1] A huge majority of them are Democrats. [2]
I wouldn't associate PhDs with intelligence given this information.
I have always voted for Democrats but I plan to vote for anyone but them in the next election because of the toxic politics like this. May be a new party that values freedom and civil liberties.
Don’t vote based on party. This person doesn’t represent all democratic politicians, nor should someone represent all republican politicians, although if you see it in a gestalt viewpoint I can understand your valid opinion. The 2 party system forces a tribalism which is toxic. Separating cheerleaders and the actual party is like hating a band because you don’t like their fans, but don’t let it blind you to policies that are beneficial whatever party they belong to.
You seem to have very balanced view and thanks for the wisdom. I've always been a contrarian. So, when one party takes too much power including Big Tech and complete assault on freedom of speech, I shall vote for anything but them.
Just like Republican party that has lost its original core with anti-science and anti-truth crusade, the Democrats have injected identity politics and woke culture. Absolutely garbage, both sides.
So they’re moving to a state in which they’re not allowed to sell their own cars due to dealership laws? What kind of signal is this sending?
This is the single dumbest thing Musk could do. A big F to the state that has promoted him to where he is, that contains the vast majority of his fan and customer base. All to save some taxes.
I used to promote Tesla to friends. That’s certainly over.
If you think subtle signaling based on being able to have a dealership is more important than the huge tax implications, production line materials, and labor costs, you are mistaken on how mega corps are run. Follow the money. Tesla hasn't cared about dealerships ever.
Theoretically, by being in Texas they could make a strong case to lobby the legislature to change that. I believe this sort of thing was fought by Michael Dell as well, since these laws don't just affect cars.
It's also good to remember that that law was put in place because people would buy cars and there was nowhere to service them. Much of Texas is still rural to some degree.
There's a certain hilarity in the timing of this, considering Elon (Texas) and Grimes' (LA) recent break-up due to a long-distance thing not working out for them.
If the goal is housing workers I think anywhere with sane property tax law instead of Californian feudalism would work well.
NJ, New York, Pittsburgh: all improvements. Texas also has good tax law which is fair to newcomers but all the other stuff seems like it'd be a real drag on hiring.
Texas makes a lot more sense for their HQ from a financial perspective and a personal values one, for their C-levels at least.
What I do wonder is how this is going to affect the internal composition of the company; I'm fairly sure a sizable % of their employees, especially women and POC, would rather gtfo than move over there.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] threadProblem is: Texas is going the same way as California. Tesla (and every other fat target) might want to leapfrog and go straight to Tennessee or something.
If anything, Tesla will be brining a bunch of blue voters from CA which could help to push back against such laws.
It is sponsorship in the most literal sense: the taxes paid by the company are propping up that state's administration and its policies. It's voting with one's feet.
The potential migration wave of blue voters is just a positive side effect.
Citation needed.
Edit: Citation provided below
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
Citation needed.
The one that started out less fully industrialized, because of the opportunity to import technology and make catch-up gains, as one would expect if labor laws had no contribution.
That point isn't that labor laws are bad. They save a lot of lives. But if you have a lot of laws that stifle productivity, such as (important) OSHA laws, it's natural that wage growth will be stifled as well.
For instance, truckers would make a lot more money if our labor laws let them drive more hours per day, or at a faster speed limit. But we don't let them do that and therefore their productivity and wage potential are capped.
There aren't going to be any citations about this, because there's no point in studying it. It's just plain old deductive reasoning.
Furthermore, for many white collar professions, which are among the main productivity boosters and growers, time spent on the job is counterproductive past a certain point.
California has some of the best and smart people but the Government of California has been nothing but a disaster on all fronts - crime, cost of living, ease of business, upward mobility, public transportation, the entire gamut.
Also, pragmatically, if this means that more tech workers end up relocating to Texas, this will hasten the shift in Texan politics. Most tech workers are left-leaning if only because educated people are left-leaning.
And let's be honest, if you are working for a salary, the Republican party does not represent your interests.
Given how covid is currently affecting Texas, the next election cycles are going to be interesting.
The engineers also tend to be affected by the things the taxes are collected for. Like, say, healthcare in case you get unemployed.
Like all states, Texas wastes more than enough money for it be a consistent position to simultaneously support better health care while resisting higher taxes.
tesla isn't doing the hastening willingly. Their hires are.
Clearly, Tesla wouldn't want that; but it would be a side-effect.
Tech workers tend to be educated, educated people tend to be left-leaning, a tech economy is a liberal economy.
That California has a liberal government and the world's tech hub is not a coincidence.
No, knowledge workers (including tech workers) are more educated because of the specific requirements of the jobs they do.
While that type of jobs may be disproportionately concentrated in cities, the ones that are rural are still educated.
Good distinction on knowledge workers.
You do realize that that's a non-sequitur, do you? Let's break it down:
1. Cities are more educated (compared to what? But OK.)
2. Colleges are more liberal (than what? But OK too.)
--------
3. Tech workers are more educated (????)
Does not compute, my friend. In any case, this does not even contradict anything I said.
And I brought up COVID because the (unvaccinated) people are dying in record numbers in Texas, and those dying are overwhelmingly right-leaning.
I struggle to understand your point.
Educated people should be able to see the current graphs. Hint: Covid will be gone in 4-6 weeks.
There was no shame or boast intended, and I struggle to see where it could be perceived in my comments.
I live in the Bay Area now, in no small part due to how that fine state is run.
What morals do you stand for when oppressing people’s individuality under the guise of any political reason? You wouldn’t cheer for others forcing your actions, would you?
I wouldn't associate PhDs with intelligence given this information.
[1] https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021081...
[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideo...
Most scientist know how flaky scientific results and publications are. Studies like the Lancet didn't help either.
I'm a PhD and waiting a few months was the smart move
Just like Republican party that has lost its original core with anti-science and anti-truth crusade, the Democrats have injected identity politics and woke culture. Absolutely garbage, both sides.
This is the single dumbest thing Musk could do. A big F to the state that has promoted him to where he is, that contains the vast majority of his fan and customer base. All to save some taxes.
I used to promote Tesla to friends. That’s certainly over.
It's also good to remember that that law was put in place because people would buy cars and there was nowhere to service them. Much of Texas is still rural to some degree.
NJ, New York, Pittsburgh: all improvements. Texas also has good tax law which is fair to newcomers but all the other stuff seems like it'd be a real drag on hiring.
What I do wonder is how this is going to affect the internal composition of the company; I'm fairly sure a sizable % of their employees, especially women and POC, would rather gtfo than move over there.
Regardless of where in Texas it is, SB8[0] still applies.
Go and ask some folks you know who have working female reproductive systems whether or not they want to live in Texas.
[0] https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961