The headline alone doesn't give a clear picture of what's being discussed here:
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“One client of ours is a woman who hit her head against the wall so many times that her retinas were detached,” said Attorney Max Stern, who represents the parents and guardians of Judge Rotenberg Center.
“It was not until she went to multiple various other institutions, not until she got to JRC and got this treatment that she was able to get this behaviour under control so she could have surgery to make it possible for her to see again,” Stern told Massachusetts News.
Wife taught a class mostly functional autistic kids for a year. It was beyond brutal for her. The kids were hard enough but other staff enjoyed setting them off.
She often 1-2 in her regular classes. Desks go flying most days. They run out of the classroom if not the school fairly often. She’s been stabbed quite a few times with pencils and other sharp objects.
As the kid who sent desks flying plenty of times (and had a couple of incidents with pens/pencils), and having the benefit of being able to look back, the trouble for me was the ones who enjoyed setting me off. I wanted to learn, I wanted to be in class and do the work, and if you just left me the fuck alone that’s what I did. But yeah that’s not going to happen, kids are kids, they pick on each other, it happens, nothing is going to prevent it 100%. The teachers on the other hand, they should know better…
Once I was away from those triggering events I was a fine upstanding student who enjoyed the work. But it can also be a snake eating it’s own tail at times. I didn’t want to be in class because I knew the teacher / other students would trigger me, with made me more anxious to be in class, which made me easier to trigger.
Edit: Just to add, I went to a "normal" school. I am intelligent and high functioning enough to have masked most of my symptoms to the good teachers (Kept their classes from picking on other kids and kept what they taught interesting, so I got on with the work, to them I was just the quiet nerdy kid who loved computers far too much but did the work assigned so I basically flew under their radar), the (imo) shit teachers didn't give a fuck anyway. It was only the "special needs" teacher (Who I meet accidentally durin secondary school) who picked up on some of my traits and suspected anything (I guess other teachers had a idea, but they never raised it with me). I was never formally diagnosed whilst I was at school, I refused to be tested (I was offered testing after a couple of imformal sessions with the special needs teacher) because the "special" kids got picked on for being labeled that so I didn't want the label.
> They run out of the classroom if not the school fairly often
Over stimulation, at atleast that was one of the causes for me. Now I went to a "normal" school with a low population of "special" kids so it was easier to deal with then it would have been with for example a whole class of "me's" at once. For me, I just needed to get out of there before I lost my shit and started flipping tables. After a few informal sessions with the schools special needs teacher I was allowed to leave the class when I got that way, I could make my way down to her teaching space where the space before her teaching space was kept dimly lit and the curtains to the windows closed (at the time, I just presumed as that space also linked to other teachers offices and the photocoping room, they just wanted to stop kids from being nosy looking though the windows, on reflection, I'm pretty sure they kept it dimly lit for kids like me), clam down, relax, get on with some self study if I felt up to it, and then rejoin "gen pop" whenn I was ready. She would call which ever teacher I just walked out on to make sure a) they knew the kid was safe b) make sure they wasn't pissed at me c) I could grab anything I needed to catch up with the lesson I just walked out on.
Now the above coping mech I used probally wouldn't work with a class full of ME's, it only worked for me because the space I could escape to was quiet and had very few people around the space. I'm just trying to explain why I personally would walk out of class when I needed to. I would try and say "I have a migrain, I need to go" before leaving but that was nto always possible for me to do (The migrain "trick" was caught to me by the special need teacher as something the teachers could relate to then trying to explain what was going on in my head at that moment in time - looking back it was prob just a codeword teachers knew to just let the kid leave). It was rarely anything personal towards the teacher of the class. I can't speak for the kids she taught during that time, But as someone who fits the description tell her that atleast some of the kids who behaved like that do feel bad for their ac...
I feel like it's a good discussion; to what lengths are we willing to go to keep someone safe? We could put people into boxes, keep them drugged/knocked out and force-fed via tubes. Technically they'd be perfectly safe, so is it acceptable (they kind of mention this in the article as well)?
When I was younger my dad told me a story about a kid with a mental disorder who would hit himself repeatedly in the head. They realized he wouldn't hit himself when he was holding a glass of water bc he would spill the water on himself and didn't like that. They kept giving him smaller and smaller glasses of water to hold until they got him to the point where he only had to have a thimble in his pocket(without any water), and that was enough to prevent him from hitting himself.
While shocking people with electricity seems like an acceptable solution, when compared to the self harm, I wonder if some of these people could be helped without shocking them or drugging them. I'm also curious to know how strong the shocks are.
However, a 2006 report by the New York State Education Department found that the device was regularly used for minor disobedience and “behaviours that are not aggressive, health dangerous or destructive, such as nagging, swearing and failing to maintain a neat appearance”.
The report also found no evidence that the school “considers the potential negative effects, such as depression or anxiety, that may result from the use of aversive behavioural strategies with certain individual students”.
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This is not some misunderstood school with a radical method. It's been investigated and condemned by the state authorities, the federal authorities (FDA) and internationally (by the UN as tantamount to torture). You'd be foolish to trust the school for claims like that.
I didn't quote that because people already know that shocks are not great things, but I'd say it's not that simple given that the judge here doesn't agree with the department's assessment.
The founder sounds like a psychopath who was enamored with 1940's utopian literature based on the idea of shaping all behavior through direct reward and punishment.
>In a video that surfaced in 2011, JRC staff tied an autistic boy face-down to a four-point board and shocked him 31 times at the highest amperage setting. The first shock was given for failing to take off his coat when asked, and the remaining 30 shocks were given for screaming and tensing up while being shocked. The boy was later hospitalized with third degree burns and acute stress disorder, but no action was taken against any of the staff as neither the law nor JRC policy had been broken.
I don't see how it's possible that an adult intentionally gives third degree burns to a someone else against their will, but is somehow absolved of criminal responsibility.
>Residents are also restricted from socializing with each other.
And this is taxpayer funded? These people should be in prison or worse, provided that this is true.
As someone with uhhh “experience” with shocks, I would still tense up today. Scream? Depends on the setting, but I would still exclaim profanity esp when it came at a surprise. And this is after years of consenting shocks.
Dunno if I would classify myself as “normal” though. Lol.
But remember, it’s only within in living memory (the 80’s) we started giving babies anesthetic when operating on them because the common belief was “babies just didn’t feel pain”. So I’m not surprised that some believe this should be acceptable (outside of consent).
>The founder sounds like a psychopath who was enamored with 1940's utopian literature based on the idea of shaping all behavior through direct reward and punishment.
Other than being up front with their intentions this isn't exactly that far from the typical ivory tower authoritarianism that runs rampant among the various taxpayer funded and subsidized programs that aim to "help" the poor, disabled, and otherwise unfortunate in the state where this facility is located.
Source: immediate family members in industry, but not close enough to retiring that I'm willing to be more specific than that.
There is similar abuse in a school in northern California called Tobins World. Teachers/staff sit on the students, or have other students hold a student while other students are encouraged to beat the crap out of them. The school goes out of its way to ensure that no students have cellphone cameras to film any of this. Sometimes they sneak one in and a token teacher will be "fired" but not really. That school has produced a lot of dangerous gang members. It is argued some of the kids were destined for that anyway. Who knows. I'd wager there is truth in both statements and many of the kids had bad parents. It doesn't really make the environment they are put in justifiable or productive for anyone outside of the private prison systems.
Fascinatingly, Tobinworld was originally a branch of this same school, and has since changed name/ownership to get around restrictions on the founder’s ability to operate in California.
This particular situation feels a bit cruel given it’s about disabled children, but I have a controversial aside to explore: I feel like there is a place for corporal punishment in schools in the more general case. My classrooms had disrespectful and disruptive brats who dragged down the learning experience for everyone. It’s clear their parents didn’t do their job and schools could have used better deterrents to correct their behavior, or at least to protect the needs of other children. I’m not defining what the right techniques are or what the limits are, but am claiming that a free for all with weak punishments like detention is not the right solution.
> School wins legal battle to electric shock children to ‘correct behaviour’
Electro shock therapy is a vital tool used to help many people. This as a misleading headline.
If it's not being used appropriately then discuss that.
There are many disgusting people who don't acknowledge you do need to electric shock children to correct behaviour, and this needs to be talked about as well.
These people who deny its use are far more vile than those who overuse it. Crippling children by stopping access to a known working medical treatment is the worst of the worst.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 60.0 ms ] thread===
“One client of ours is a woman who hit her head against the wall so many times that her retinas were detached,” said Attorney Max Stern, who represents the parents and guardians of Judge Rotenberg Center.
“It was not until she went to multiple various other institutions, not until she got to JRC and got this treatment that she was able to get this behaviour under control so she could have surgery to make it possible for her to see again,” Stern told Massachusetts News.
Once I was away from those triggering events I was a fine upstanding student who enjoyed the work. But it can also be a snake eating it’s own tail at times. I didn’t want to be in class because I knew the teacher / other students would trigger me, with made me more anxious to be in class, which made me easier to trigger.
Edit: Just to add, I went to a "normal" school. I am intelligent and high functioning enough to have masked most of my symptoms to the good teachers (Kept their classes from picking on other kids and kept what they taught interesting, so I got on with the work, to them I was just the quiet nerdy kid who loved computers far too much but did the work assigned so I basically flew under their radar), the (imo) shit teachers didn't give a fuck anyway. It was only the "special needs" teacher (Who I meet accidentally durin secondary school) who picked up on some of my traits and suspected anything (I guess other teachers had a idea, but they never raised it with me). I was never formally diagnosed whilst I was at school, I refused to be tested (I was offered testing after a couple of imformal sessions with the special needs teacher) because the "special" kids got picked on for being labeled that so I didn't want the label.
> They run out of the classroom if not the school fairly often
Over stimulation, at atleast that was one of the causes for me. Now I went to a "normal" school with a low population of "special" kids so it was easier to deal with then it would have been with for example a whole class of "me's" at once. For me, I just needed to get out of there before I lost my shit and started flipping tables. After a few informal sessions with the schools special needs teacher I was allowed to leave the class when I got that way, I could make my way down to her teaching space where the space before her teaching space was kept dimly lit and the curtains to the windows closed (at the time, I just presumed as that space also linked to other teachers offices and the photocoping room, they just wanted to stop kids from being nosy looking though the windows, on reflection, I'm pretty sure they kept it dimly lit for kids like me), clam down, relax, get on with some self study if I felt up to it, and then rejoin "gen pop" whenn I was ready. She would call which ever teacher I just walked out on to make sure a) they knew the kid was safe b) make sure they wasn't pissed at me c) I could grab anything I needed to catch up with the lesson I just walked out on.
Now the above coping mech I used probally wouldn't work with a class full of ME's, it only worked for me because the space I could escape to was quiet and had very few people around the space. I'm just trying to explain why I personally would walk out of class when I needed to. I would try and say "I have a migrain, I need to go" before leaving but that was nto always possible for me to do (The migrain "trick" was caught to me by the special need teacher as something the teachers could relate to then trying to explain what was going on in my head at that moment in time - looking back it was prob just a codeword teachers knew to just let the kid leave). It was rarely anything personal towards the teacher of the class. I can't speak for the kids she taught during that time, But as someone who fits the description tell her that atleast some of the kids who behaved like that do feel bad for their ac...
When I was younger my dad told me a story about a kid with a mental disorder who would hit himself repeatedly in the head. They realized he wouldn't hit himself when he was holding a glass of water bc he would spill the water on himself and didn't like that. They kept giving him smaller and smaller glasses of water to hold until they got him to the point where he only had to have a thimble in his pocket(without any water), and that was enough to prevent him from hitting himself.
While shocking people with electricity seems like an acceptable solution, when compared to the self harm, I wonder if some of these people could be helped without shocking them or drugging them. I'm also curious to know how strong the shocks are.
However, a 2006 report by the New York State Education Department found that the device was regularly used for minor disobedience and “behaviours that are not aggressive, health dangerous or destructive, such as nagging, swearing and failing to maintain a neat appearance”.
The report also found no evidence that the school “considers the potential negative effects, such as depression or anxiety, that may result from the use of aversive behavioural strategies with certain individual students”.
---
This is not some misunderstood school with a radical method. It's been investigated and condemned by the state authorities, the federal authorities (FDA) and internationally (by the UN as tantamount to torture). You'd be foolish to trust the school for claims like that.
https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2021/7/...
The founder sounds like a psychopath who was enamored with 1940's utopian literature based on the idea of shaping all behavior through direct reward and punishment.
I don't see how it's possible that an adult intentionally gives third degree burns to a someone else against their will, but is somehow absolved of criminal responsibility.
>Residents are also restricted from socializing with each other.
And this is taxpayer funded? These people should be in prison or worse, provided that this is true.
I wonder if "normal" people are expected not to scream and tense up while being shocked. I'm pretty sure most people I know would do the same.
Dunno if I would classify myself as “normal” though. Lol.
But remember, it’s only within in living memory (the 80’s) we started giving babies anesthetic when operating on them because the common belief was “babies just didn’t feel pain”. So I’m not surprised that some believe this should be acceptable (outside of consent).
Other than being up front with their intentions this isn't exactly that far from the typical ivory tower authoritarianism that runs rampant among the various taxpayer funded and subsidized programs that aim to "help" the poor, disabled, and otherwise unfortunate in the state where this facility is located.
Source: immediate family members in industry, but not close enough to retiring that I'm willing to be more specific than that.
I am curious how many schools like this exist.
My god it feels like this article was republished from the 1960s but this is actually happening now.
Well, there was federal law, until this decision.
https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2021/09/21/fda-wants-court-t...
Electro shock therapy is a vital tool used to help many people. This as a misleading headline.
If it's not being used appropriately then discuss that.
There are many disgusting people who don't acknowledge you do need to electric shock children to correct behaviour, and this needs to be talked about as well.
These people who deny its use are far more vile than those who overuse it. Crippling children by stopping access to a known working medical treatment is the worst of the worst.