Ask HN: What's the Point of Life?

59 points by sillysaurusx ↗ HN
As I've grown older, this question has been consuming more and more of my thoughts. I like life, and I'm absurdly lucky. But what's the point of any of it?

HN seems uniquely good at philosophical questions, so I was hoping to get your thoughts. I thought about framing the question more, but honestly, "What's the point of life?" is the refrain that I keep coming back to. It would be nice to escape it.

172 comments

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I have no idea what the point is but the answer is 42.
"To always have your towel with you" is part of the answer.
"To be ready to jump in and swim" is what it would probably be in common English, without the British wink.
I saw a post the other day claiming that, since 42 corresponds to "*" in ASCII, and "*" is often used to represent a wildcard value, the meaning of life is whatever you want it to be.
To keep it going, i.e., have children.
yes, let's create even more people to suffer through life. what a selfish thought.
Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy life.
I'm sure some do, but using your enjoyment of life as justification to have a child who has no choice in the matter and could or could not enjoy life themselves is again, selfish.
Those who are lucky may think they enjoy it, for a time, until their bodies wear out and everyone they know dies. But even then their enjoyment comes at the expense of the suffering of other beings.
If you start off with the assumption that life is suffering and any enjoyment is a temporary illusion, no amount of evidence suggesting the opposite will convince you otherwise. But simply looking around will reveal much beauty and happiness, plain for all to see amongst the (also existing) gloom and depression.

Not everyone sees life as unending torment.

I think I've seen both sides. I no longer suffer very much, because I largely recognize the ego self as a delusion. However I experienced intense suffering when I was young. While suffering may not be real in an absolute sense it is very real for those who still cling to themselves.

I don't see any way to justify that suffering just so that some can experience joy and happiness, which as far as I can see have no true inherent value.

All the people who intentionally have children? Based on how much people complain about life, I would doubt that.

Many people are hypocrites in that sense.

Irrational. If everyone ceased to have children, the whole bet would be lost. So, it's more complicated than that.
And what of those that cannot? Is their life pointless?
Answer largely depends if you believe in god or reincarnation. I do and for me it's quite easy to imagine a lot of things. Improving your actions, help people's, improving the world, having childrens...
I don't believe in either, but my list is quite similar (minus having children). Basically the point is to exert my influence to improve futures as I see fit. I think that statement comes off a bit too selfless; I'm not always concerned with this endeavor.
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There are some non-dualists who claim to have an answer to that question. Basically according to them consciousness divided itself in order to experience all the various forms of existence and from the point of view of the (illusory) individual self the goal is to discover that they are in truth nothing other than primordial consciousness (ie. what some call God).

Personally I find that explanation circular and unsatisfying. So the goal of life is to get back to what you were before life began, what's the point ?

Doesn‘t every game end where it started?
Games don't usually involve inflicting suffering on unwilling participants.
In the context of the game a lot of them actually do. In this view there is ultimately only you playing with yourself, so there can‘t be any unwilling participants. They are all seen as masks of god.
Yes, but as long as you don't realize you're wearing a mask the suffering seems very real. It seems to me there remains a reality to that suffering even when the ego self that suffered ceases to exist and it's unjust to discount it.
But when the ego self ceases to exist, to whom is it unjust then?
To the ego self that previously existed and previously suffered.

Is it OK to torture someone as long as you make sure to kill them afterward ?

> To the ego self that > previously existed and > previously suffered. > Is it OK to torture someone > as long as you make sure to > kill them afterward ?

In this view the ego self existed before, but only in so far as I exist as the character in a novel, while I am reading it. So I would say yes, it is OK to torture a fictional character if it makes sense in the context of the story.

I'm not sure why the order of this thread seems to have gotten screwed up.

In your view (or the view you are defending) is there any reason to be compassionate towards other beings ? If the answer is yes than that compassion should have extended to avoiding all manifestation so as to prevent their suffering.

If the answer is no, because they are just like characters in a novel, then there seems to be a very fundamental difference in morality between this view and most other spiritual teachings, which do teach compassion.

In the view I am defending there is a reason to be compassionate towards other beings. It is the natural reaction after having realized that you are in essence the same, god in disguise.

The idea that all manifestation should have been prevented to prevent suffering seems to take for granted, that the joys of life are not worth the suffering. I would disagree about that.

> The idea that all manifestation should have been prevented to prevent suffering seems to take for granted, that the joys of life are not worth the suffering.

Yes, because that has always been my experience. I have never experienced a state of joy or happiness that seemed so good that I could see it as justifying suffering. I have however in the past experienced states of suffering so horrible that I would have given anything for them to end.

Ancient hebrews used the telling of personified stories to explain concepts about tribe dynamics that are mathematical in nature. Perhaps something similar is going on here, and you misunderstand the text.

Maybe it is to say that when you turn and meet the eyes of another you already know that you're the same basic stuff. That's why you open your mouth and start talking. Because you know you'll get an answer back.

Perhaps the text is there to remind you of the significance of that intuition, and to look for generality in plurality, as a useful abstraction. There are other texts that seem to teach you the use of fear, vision, smell and taste, touch and feel.

Maybe it's a manual for your vehicle, and not some philosophical movement.

Just a thought.

To make connections in new and surprising ways that you talk about to other people.

Or

The point of life is to increase entropy.

Or

The point of life is to secure resources that allow that life to continue on in the way that that life decides to, based on that life’s structure

Ctrl + f entropy

I like your first answer better, even if I agree with it less.

> to increase entropy

Maybe to decrease it.

That endeavour would be pretty much futile, would it not? The momentum in the other direction is built into the world physics, the rules of the game, is it not?

Would that not lead to a frustrating life?

There isn't one. The point of life is whatever you make it to be. Nothing has inherent meaning or value, until you yourself give it any. Only you can answer that question for yourself.
To ensure the titles in your document are all indented left and are colored in company colors.

/micromanager rant

> … company colors.

So, enforcing group identity and tribalism, basically. A lot of people do think of that as the point of life. Being a part of a group and living for the benefit of the group over oneself.

The religious fervor over enforcing style guides makes more sense if it is tied to people’s world view and philosophy of life.

I'm childfree so I'm on the leanFIRE track, pursuing my hobbies in my spare time. When I'm physically incapable of them or I run out of money (around 70), I plan to kill myself.
Congrats on some successes. I hope you continue to find things that bring joy.

But please don't harm yourself or anyone -- not now, not later.

I have learned for myself that life has purpose and is worthwhile, even when one can't move without pain and it is hard to maintain good thoughts -- such things can be learning experiences that help us move forward later, into the next life, when we will still be ourselves and can take with us the things we have learned and become (on the inside). It is so very worthwhile. I have commented more elsewhere in this discussion.

(edit: s/now/not/ )

I don't know. If I sit down with my back straight and close my eyes, I can, in the space of 3-5 minutes, infallibly find the inner joy rising up from my body. Same way that something's kinda tense, and something's kinda sat on – there is a form of joy.

I hear it is never lost, lest you're actually dead or in the process of.

So I don't know about that.

Good for you. I wish I could do that, just will myself to be happy at any time. I wish alcoholics or drug addicts could will themselves to stop using drugs. I wish the obese (40% of Americans) could simply choose to eat less food and start exercising. If we could all choose to be happy regardless of circumstances, there would be no problems in the world.
I wish that for you too.

I've been struggling with "neurosis-based" depression all my life. They still don't have a cure for that. You know what the medical consensus is? Breathe.

That appeared in 2015.

And I have myself discovered Wim Hoff independently of medical science the year before. That got me started.

Maybe it could get you started too.

<3

Does it have to have a point? I'm still young (early 20s) so maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see why there has to be a reason for life.

It exists and as a result, so do you. Enjoy it, do what's right, and maybe we'll be lucky enough to be the first people for whom life doesn't end.

On the last part, of life not ending for some, we're already too late.

Discuss.

Beauty, creativity, diversity, expanding beautiful things in the world, taking the time to absorb the magnitude of it all.

Also money and hard drugs /s

If you can do all that in the space of a week, week after week, then sure.

I found out that no, I can't actually manage that.

Maybe you can though. Are you trying right now? How's it going, if I may be so familiar?

There is no point.

It's up to you to decide what it is that matters to you but if you're looking for some universal direction then that will just lead to frustration.

If you're lucky and you have the resources then you're in a position to choose which I understand can feel overwhelming. I would just encourage you to consider the possibility that you've been given a gift and you should cherish it.

Thank you. The problem – or at least, my problem – is that "There isn't any point" leads to a feeling of "This is pointless." Wandering around life feeling "This is pointless" when you do anything seems... suboptimal.

But it's true, right? If there's no point, then the conclusion is "This is pointless" for every experience. And it ends up feeling so hollow sometimes.

Relaxing and enjoying it is of course the antidote. But I'm starting to wonder if everyone is relaxing and enjoying life without purpose, and therefore our collective purpose is de facto "Netflix and chill."

There's nothing wrong with that, but it ends up feeling like "Well, I may as well sit around and play Dota; it's just as good as doing anything else, since it's all pointless." And that can't possibly be the proper mindset for life... Can it?

You create your own reality. If your current reality is pointless, make a new one.

Find your own meaning since it is different for everyone was their point I think.

If you accepted unproven ideas such as that one you would probably accept ideas without foundation in general, and this attitude would be very, very toxic.
Well, you seem to be uninspired by DOTA and Netflix so I think you already know the answer to your question.

To be nerdy about it; this is a problem with many variables and one of your responsibilities is to figure out what they are. So if you're feeling overwhelmed with a sense of futility then it might be that you're experiencing some level of depression. You could be out of 'happy juice' and be wildly over stimulated. You need to name, and isolate those variables for yourself, so you can hear what some people call your 'authentic voice' which will give you some level of inspiration.

I realize this might sound hand-wavy. I can't give you any practical personal advice for obvious reasons, but I would really encourage you to change things up; change your surroundings. Try new things. Meet new people. Move your body around. None of it will feel good to start.

You may also be interested in reading or listening to work by Andrew Huberman who provides excellent lectures on various topics around brain chemistry and motivation.

Just because life is pointless, it doesn't mean you can't do things for a purpose.

Think questions like: "Why bother developing a skill if I'm not going to use it professionally?"

Well, learning this can just make you happy, and that's enough of a purpose if you want it to be. You don't have to make money out of it, it doesn't need to take you anywhere in your career, if you feel good doing something as hobby, why would that be bad?

"Ah, but there are people consider that procrastination"

Do you care what others think? How much to be in the way of you enjoying yourself?

Of course you need to make the decision if something is worth your time and is making you truly happy or just helping you escape reality.

Addictive things can give you short burst of happiness, but fill the rest of your life with misery. But anything can be an addiction. Just because it is to another person, it doesn't mean it is to you and vice-versa.

I recommend reading Myth of Sisyphus by Camus (the full version, maybe skipping the stuff about other philosophers and where they went wrong). It describes the notion of Absurd, something that arises from the irreconcilability of the consciousness and the universe... and also talks a lot on what is to be done about that.

A crude synopsis is that you can create your own meaning while keeping the pointlessness of it always in view... you can live life, create art, etc. as a meaningless revolt against meaninglessness :)

I also wonder anyway, how would life with a point feel? It goes back to absurdity of human condition; you think you need a point but how does that work? Let's say you achieve the point of life when you are 53, what do you do then? :) Life with an absolute point is not actually a condition I can imagine :)

This is what I believe too, but I take it 1 step further: life would suck if life had a point. Because that would have all sorts of implications in the goals we should strive for, and the things we should do.

Without a point we are free to pursue whatever meaning we find important.

Excellent answer…

In a meaningless universe where you are essentially a powerless water balloon with some decision tree making abilities, the gift of “choice” and deciding what matters to you is really the only power you have.

"The point of life" implies that there is one.

If there is one, it can come from an external source or from our own subjective self.

The former is what traditional religions claim, and most settle on some form of "praising the Creator" as the point of life.

The latter is probably best captured by existentialism. I would recommend Camus.

If there is not one, then that is nihilism. I would recommend Nietzsche.

I think the choice is between God and Nietzsche. I picked God.

> The latter is probably best captured by existentialism. I would recommend Camus.

While I agree with the first part of your comment, I completely disagree with this statement. I'd say the latter is quite well captured by some eastern traditions such as Advaita-Vedanta or Buddhism, especially its essential aspects such as Mahamudra or Dzogchen.

I'm not certain you'll get a comforting resolution to this niggling question that we all probably have.

The rather uncomfortable truth is that there may not be a point. But this, in some ways, makes it strangely comforting also, because the "point" can be whatever you define it to be. That's the way I choose to look at it anyway!

The point is what you decide to make its point. You have the free choice, within limits.
Do what makes the best story. This often takes the form of an adventure.

Not fantastic adventure, a very boring one. But hopefully it has some of the qualities.

That's a good direction to set one off. Love it.

I don't enjoy that question the OP voiced in the framing that he used. I think it's a misguided framing, that does not limit the question sufficiently that it might have a chance at an answer. Which would lead to quite some frustration, and so a life that is not as enjoyable as it might otherwise have been.

I think the impulse to ask that question should be used productively. As in, "What is the game? Here, right now?"

What is it about what I'm going to do now that I'm going to enjoy? How can I make what I'm doing play instead of work?

I think that works better as a general approach.

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Development.

There is literature about it, by the way, and it could be good for you to explore it if you feel that way towards the matter.

That is a part of it, sure.

But there is also Discipline to go with that.

Why would there be a point?

That's like asking "what's the point of a frog?"

“What makes life worth living? No child asks itself that question. To children, life is self-evident. Life goes without saying: whether it is good or bad makes no difference. This is because children don’t see the world, don’t observe the world, don’t contemplate the world, but are so deeply immersed in the world that they don’t distinguish between it and their own selves. Not until … a distance appears between what they are and what the world is, does the question arise: what makes life worth living?” — Karl Ove Knausgård

Said better than I could ever try.

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From my own experience this might have only been true before the age of 4 when I woke up to the world. After that only when I am so strongly identified with and attached to what is going on that it's unhealthy. Or when I have gotten it all so Zen that I don't have to decide anything, everything flows.
All biological life or human life only?
What's the point of eating a meal or washing clothes?
"Underrated" :) [Edit: very underrated, since somebody downvoted as this comment was written. I guess the downvoter(s) interpreted said acts as routing, while the poster may have indicated "something's behind it"]

The poster knows how to do induction.

I think "attempting to forestall the emerging ecological catastrophe" is a good-enough placeholder for the next few generations.

You can worry about the meaning of life after you have secured its continuity. Prioritize.

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What's the point of life? When's the line of death? And whase hitched to the hop in his tayle?