Ask HN: How do you tackle your own negativity?
I've noticed that the majority of my own comments here on HN have a negative spin on them and a lot of my blog posts unfortunately are very ranty. I guess to others this can make me look obnoxious. At the same time, I struggle to suppress my own negativity and feel like I need to get it out.
Does anybody else feel this way? How do (or don't) you tackle it?
212 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 52.1 ms ] threadThere is no easy shortcut or royal road. You'll have to do the work to develop the required metacognitve skills.
I'm sure it's fair to say I get more downvotes than I give and give way more upvotes than downvotes.
S
And if you truly are negative or pessimistic about something, sit with that for a minute and try to figure out why you’re negative. And then work on those areas to make it more likely to succeed.
Have you tried writing a diary? I did that for decades. Yes, it's great to get the stuff out, but do you need other people to see it also?
Maybe try the idea of morning pages from the Artist's Way books - write 3 pages every morning on paper, quickly as you can, just stream of consciousness, don't judge or edit it, don't plan to read it again.
That's a habit, and it's a pretty annoying one if you're living with someone who does that, and I have lived with a few who did. After dealing it with for a long time I finally came up with that response to clearly point it out but I added to it by telling them "Anyone can walk into a room and find something to bitch about but Shit flows both ways and I can do that to you, so you need to stop doing it to me or expect I'll return the favor."
They always deny they do it and that anyone can do it to them. So then I'd wait a few days and when it was far from their thoughts I'd walk in and find something to bitch about them with. And after I did that I tell them "Now you see how easy that is."
The immediate goal is to get them to see they're a chronic bitcher and it works at least to the point where they stop looking for shit to bitch at me about because they know I'll return the favor.
The larger goal though is to get them to see that they have a choice in how they view the world around them. One can also walk into a room and look for what is good to be found there, and if you make a point to do that you're negativity will diminish pretty quickly.
But you have to give yourself a kick in the ass when you find you're being negative and purposely look for something positive. And you'll almost always find something positive if you do that. After awhile that is what you start looking for first.
I sincerely hope this helps.
They'll readily recognize how rude you're being while simultaneously not recognizing you're doing to them once what they've done to you dozens or hundreds of times.
If someone has this mindset then in my opinion there really is no way to enlighten them. It's a character trait that runs deep. I think best to accept that you don't want this kind of interaction in your life and minimise contact as much as possible. It's certainly better than stooping to the same level.
An HN example might be bug reports. Bug reports are not being negative, they're being positive, trying to help fix an issue by pointing out it. The same is true for feature requests. You might not like the request but it's arguably a positive thing to get the info and possibly be presented a new idea.
I'm recently semi-addicted to the "Not Just Bikes" youtube channel and it is arguably all "bitching about stuff". But the goal is clearly to raise awareness of the what most in the USA take for granted.
I often try to look for the positive, but it often feels like learning to accept shoddy quality. Hey, this food tastes nothing like the real dishes but at least I was able to afford to go out..... Doesn't help the fact that the food was bad. Hey, this item I got from amazon is bad quality, but at least I'm privileged enough to have been able to order??!? It's hard to see how not being negative here is a net positive.
Weak, frustrated and attention seekers ? I often view them as people in fear of something that enjoy the reflex of negative / toxic behavior just to get a reaction from their environment.
It's not the easiest to come neutral and honest about how you feel, bored, lonely, scared, or to ask for friendly interactions taking others into account. (I did that too, now I try to stay relaxed and cool)
I believe a lot of this comes when people contrast online and offline discussion. In the (classical) online world and pseudonymous users, interchanges are (theoretically) more detached an less personal. That make the tone seem pretty raw at times.
But there are countless legitimately bad developments in tech, aside from giant corporations tying in the open source community and trying to make it more "professional". Huge advertising platforms indirectly threatening freedom of expression, scam artists selling NFTs and some crypto currencies. This is a fundamentally bad development that isn't really comparable to what we had only 10 years ago. At least if we are talking about tech, I believe there is quite some reason to be negative about developments so I don't mind it getting to people and I think acknowledging that you are disappointed is healthier than just to proclaim to be happy now. And in that case I don't expect people being friendly, that would be an unrealistic expectation.
I try to keep a balance and not go too far into the happy happy sunshine all the time mindset either because "toxic positivity" can also come with it's own set of problems, but overall I think just being more likable and charismatic and having genuine connections with people in life helped my mindset a ton.
This has made my marriage difficult at times, and I've realized that I need to change this. What I need is not a how-to book. I need a really really compelling why book. I unfortunately have yet to find one and envy people who naturally care about that stuff.
I also would prefer not to get judgment from people who don't understand why I can't humble myself, as that happens sometimes. I've tried forcing myself to be humble and continue to try every day (I'm married!), but it would be so much nicer if people could convince me about things rationally instead of expecting me to respect their opinions for no reason other than the relationship can become negative otherwise. Of course, we live in reality, not what we wish was reality. So I suppose I will just continue with struggling to figure this out until I hopefully get the answer, knowing full well that it would actually be pretty useful if I could be a more positive and likeable person. I'm actually going for counselling this week for the first time, maybe the professionals can figure it out for me!
Either you value collaboration and the opinions of others, or you don't; there's not much that you can do to reason yourself into or out of it, since it's not really a rational position.
I find dialetheism[0] to be a fulfilling model of mental gymnastics for this 'humbling' you refer to.
[0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dialetheism/
Because you do. The only thing you will ever really have is the reality you can impact around you. So take charge!
Your job isn't just your day job. It is to run and push the planet along a good direction as much as you can, because it is literally your planet. These are all your people.
So learn to "use" people to your best advantage by learning what makes them tick, how to communicate and motivate, how to encourage and help even the people you only see once.
Be a great world leader from the perspective that you are objectively at the center of your world and you really do have the ability to move needles. So move every one you can.
When you do consciously act to move needles forward it's very motivating and self-affirming.
Get the most good out of others and yourself for this planet you own.
I just looked him up on Wikipedia and my first impression is he was a very original/independent thinker. :)
I came to that view unconsciously at first, before I recognized it explicitly. It never made sense to me to not care about my net impact carrying on after I die, since it is pretty clear I am going to die, and very soon relative to our home the universe.
Caring about the whole planet, and measuring my self-worth based on that, seems like the only sensible response. And it isn't in conflict with being self-interested at all, it really maximizes self-interest objectively speaking.
My impact will be all of me that survives but it will go on subtly for a very very long time! Go me, lol!
Off to Amazon to get Stirner's book.
I very much agree with your position! I came to a similar view, which I only acknowledged in my explicit deconstruction of my beliefs. It's taken me ages to reconverge; Camus, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, and Stirner finally gave me the confidence to declare: "fuck it, I am my impact, and I'm proud of what I do right."
It's really the most life-affirming philosophy I've found, it helps me walk the fine balance of empathy (tending to self-destruction) and self-interest (tending to dread isolationism, nihilism).
I'd love to keep a dialog as you read Stirner! Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you a line to reach me at :D
It's also important to remember that we are animals of habit and change. Valuing collaboration is a habit; sports are a great way to build and exercise it. I'm personally very fond of rowing. There's little else that matches it for enforcing collaboration.
Last, have you ever had an interest in psychedelics? LSD lit a fuse of empathy in my skull, and a lot of this has developed naturally (but not easily nor simply) from my relationship with the absurd.
Only your own life can be that book, you just have to re-read it and see where it went wrong, by your own standards. It’s very good that you’re not humble and can draw clear lines (afaiu), but along with that you have to check flaws in your reasoning and only draw lines where you can see the canvas clearly.
professionals can figure it out for me
A smart move, but be careful to not “outsource” it to them. You are the decision maker, because you are the one responsible (as in “will experience all of the consequences”). They will just go home and eat their dinner.
That's the key point. I think about the worst-case scenario as well, it is important. But as long as it does not kill me or leaves me with lifetime super negative impact, I am not spending too much time on it, because it is an inefficient use of my time and brain bandwidth.
The reason is that statistically things turn out fine, usually not perfect but 99.9% not worst case. And most of worse case scenarios are avoided _not_ because _I_ considered and avoided them. Differently said, even if you start with 5 potential really bad outcomes, after a short while 2 or 3 become irrelevant anyway because circumstances.
Being ready for the lucky and positive upside is more efficient in the long run in my experience, and much more pleasant along the way.
It feels like a superpower to me to be positive when I look at all these sad and negative people who don't even realize how much _they_ are hurting themselves, not the circumstances around them.
Just complaining when you feel negative about something isn't the appropriate response though. It's the easy reponse but it's not productive and won't remove negativity in the long term even if it feels good to get a good rant out.
Listen to what negative emotions you have and form actions to remove the negative stimuli.
Yes, but... it might not be the thing you're currently being negative about. If you're finding yourself negative about many things, or often, then it's probably a more persistent circumstance. (Maybe you hate your job, or your apartment, or....)
> Listen to what negative emotions you have and form actions to remove the negative stimuli.
Yes, absolutely. Two more tips for doing this: you don't have to finish (you don't even have to be able to finish); and you can find the smallest step and do that one (maybe just the once, maybe more than once).
IMHO, throughout it all, it's sliiiightly more important to cultivate emotional self-awareness than it is to actually resolve anything. Resolving things is linear growth; cultivating emotional self-awareness is compounding growth. Resolve things as much as you can while maintaining the self-awareness, and over time, I would expect to see substantial changes.
+1 on embrace it.
In your case, try to nurture positivity instead of suppressing negativity. Perhaps write a blog post on something you are excited about. Or write more comments of the “Yes, and…” variety.
But I'm also simultaneously a jolly, upbeat, joky person who don't take myself or my rants too seriously. Humans are complex :P
There have been periods of my life when I recognized negativity was taking over to the point there wasn't much positivity or joy at all. During such times it takes pretty deliberate effort to cut out sources of negativity (for me it was hyperconsumption of news and social media - I cut most of it out) and introducing sources of positivity and joy. (for me it was trying to learn to dance at age 30, switching from a cave gym to exercising outdoors in the sun, and spending more time with friends instead of in front of the computer - I think those last two are huge, especially for the hackernews crowd who probably spend more time than others by themselves and indoors in front of a computer)
When I still get frustrated with things at work and elsewhere, a trick I use is to ask myself whether whatever I'm fussing over is that important in my life - overwhelmingly, the answer is no, I won't even remember it five years from now, and I can just acknowledge I disagree with it, it annoys me etc but just move along.
Writing itself is aggressive, and I'd posit that any sample of good comments is going to skew negative in perceived tone - or use implied negativity as a ground to the positive comments figure.
I'd even say the agreeableness that makes for sustainable modern office relationships is not a quality that makes for insightful writing. It can coexist, but it's a different skill, so I don't interpret good comments as negative. Predictable talking points, that's most of what one needs to know about someone, but original writing whether I agree with it or not is usually worth considering.
One way I like to think about it is: Will my comment make the project/thread better or worst? If it's negative and could make it worst then it feels easier to just keep it for myself, even if I know I'm right (or other good reasons for negativity)
I find that getting enough sleep, eating healthy (including breakfast), limiting caffeine, stretching, avoiding social sites, and just doing "healthy" things makes it easier to respond positively.
A bit of self promotion now. I made an app called Positivelys to help make positive thinking a healthy habit. It's simple, you make a note of positive moments no matter how big of small throughout the day. Then go back and scroll through your own feed of positive moments to give yourself a pick-me-up. I made this for myself and do think it helps. It was also a fun experiment using Rust to make apps.
iOS https://apps.apple.com/us/app/positivelys/id1498984121
Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cultivated...
Could it be that these comments/blog posts are a bit of a release valve, helping you maintain healthier relationships in real-life? If so, I say great!
One thing I'd like to mention is that, perhaps you're a person with strong opinions. There's nothing particularly wrong with that. I also have pretty strong opinions, and I enjoy debating people (always with good humour). What you need to be mindful of is being overly rigid, making you unable to compromise with others. Do you find you have "rules" around interacting with people? It could be something like refusing to eat at certain restaurants for political reasons. This rigidity can have a negative impact on your relationships. It can be hard to self-assess these things, so once again it's worth asking family/friends.
I'd also just mention, a lot of these things - negative thinking, catastrophising, or rigidity - stem in part from anxiety. This is best addressed through some form of therapy.
Why did you comment? What got your attention? Did your comment improve the situation? There's likely a pattern so look for it and decide if its worth keeping. Is it really you being you?
Why were you seeking out this negativity? Is this the best way to live? All the time you spend in negativity is time you are not spending positively. There's a significant opprtunity cost here.
Procrastination also often involves distraction. Negativity tends to come along for the ride as well.
Firstly, make a habit of seeing the full picture of something you’re evaluating or judging. This might be the ‘other side’ of the story (someone else’s perspective), the benefits of something you’re criticising that you’re otherwise missing, or an understanding of the worth of something you might be defending.
Secondly is to recognise the benefit of positive thoughts (like goodwill towards others) on yourself and the people around you. You may like to add some intentional practices here such as what’s referred to in Buddhism as loving kindness (‘metta’) meditation or performing generous acts. The uplifting in mind state you get here will incline you away from a lot of criticising and judging.
Principally though the goal would be to get to a point where a build up of negativity is not occurring for you and there’s no need to vent, but getting there is practice. It is great that you are reflecting on this and looking for another way so best of luck to you!
A lyric I love: "it's so so sad to be happy all the time." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vth-n34LK8E)
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I've found that negativity seems to be a required step in some self expression. Say you have an immediate strong emotional reaction to something you encountered, but to express your emotional reaction you start by phrasing it as a big long negative-sounding complaint or diatribe. Maybe you even have a good point in there, the point you're aiming at comes from a genuine place of wanting to make things better, but it just comes out negative and unhelpful.
Once the expression is articulated and externalized you can take a second editing step, cutting away all the useless bits -- accusations, overgeneralizations, unsympathetic or unconsidered viewpoints, annoyances that resolve outside the scope of the topic, etc. -- to extract out just the core of your idea expressed in a way that is at least neutral. The point is to rewrite it and shorten it until you and your imagined audience can no longer find a reasonable objection to it. That often means a gradual voluntary weakening of your statement or splitting it into separate statements, and maybe even talking yourself out of it completely. You can tell if you're doing it right by holding the original emotion in mind while you restate your neutral, edited version -- if it feels 'satisfied' then you've captured its intent; if it gets annoyed then you missed something and you're not done.
The key is that this whole laborious process doesn't need to happen out in the open right in the face of the person whose behavior you want to change.
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Think of the initial negative reaction as the inedible husk that surrounds a delicious fruit, something that's a pain to remove like a coconut. The fruit can't grow without the husk protecting it so don't begrudge the husk its necessity. But you wouldn't want to hand your friend an ugly unpeeled fruit that they've never seen and that they have to really work at to get to the fruit in the center. Heck, if it looks like too much work they may even throw it out without even trying. Instead, peel as much as you can yourself first and only present it to them afterwards.
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An initial negative / emotional reaction isn't bad per se, just that it isn't yet stated in a way that is useful to everyone else... so re-express it until it is.