Ask HN: What is the best privacy-focused video doorbell?
So the family have decided they "need" a video doorbell... with calls for a Ring Doorbell. I don't want more Amazon/tracking/spyware installed so looking for the best privacy focussed doorbell (Ideally with open APIs).
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[ 4.4 ms ] story [ 155 ms ] threadgoogling pi doorbell brings stuff like this
https://makezine.com/projects/remote-camera-doorbell-and-sma...
Logitech would also be much better than amazon at least and provider a better plug and play experience https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/cameras/circle-view-...
Bonus: You can build the device to your local privacy regulation. Where I am, doorbells in shared living spaces can't have audio recording, but good luck finding a decent doorbell that does not also record audio.
The problem with those is that there's still no good open-source ecosystem around SIP. There are ad-hoc libraries that implement the low level protocol, but little when it comes to a full B2BUA to which you can then connect a SIP client.
The closest to that is Asterisk but IMO it's far from user-friendly, has very poor & incomplete documentation, an arcane configuration language and is plagued by lots of legacy telecoms-specific crap (obscure protocols that are no longer used, etc) that the majority of users won't need.
So there is SIP hardware, but then you just moved the problem elsewhere and now you need a user-friendly SIP server to run it.
Works with HomeKit. No need to deal with Logitech except for initial set up as far as I can tell.
Recording to a local device does mean you have to consider things like power/network outages if you want remote access and recording to continue during those events. I’ve got all my network gear and the doorbell transformer running off a UPS to cover the time between a power outage and my whole-home generator kicking in. I’ve also got an LTE modem to fail over to on my Dream Machine Pro (Router/network controller/video storage).
Full disclosure though, if you do that while my wife and kid are home I will stab you
Or you could walk up and smash a window wearing a balaclava.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the FAANGs acquires them. They have a fairly popular home line now with Amplifi, and that seems to be their main/only focus, now that almost all of the EdgeOS engineers are reportedly gone.
But the big decision point is whether you want to get stuck in the Unifi Protect walled garden. A lot of people understandably don't want that.
Back in the days of Unifi Video, you could create your own NVR using Unifi's software, but you can't with Unifi Protect. I've already outgrown my Unifi Cloud Key Gen 2+ (which is only doing NVR duties). Scrubbing through footage in a browser or mobile device can be a royal pain.
If you have a significant number of cameras, you need to invest in one of the more powerful Unifi NVRs to get better performance.
https://www.gira.de/produkte/tuersprechanlagen/tuersprechanl...
[1]: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/#doorbell
[2]: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...
[3]: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/doorbird/
Think very carefully here. If you want a video doorbell, your personal requirements are very different from the requirements that your family has.
I'm very happy with my Nest doorbell, but to be quite honest, the only "privacy" thing I did was tell all my neighbors who are within view of the camera. If / when there are concerns, I'll disconnect it. (Frankly, my neighbors just laughed and then put in video doorbells pointing at my house.)
Assuming your family are average people who aren't excited about hacking and tinkering, it's not worth pushing a homegrown or niche solution on them unless it's brain-dead easy to use.
We had critical situation at home, so we also decided to set up a recording camera. Brand name is “Eufy”. Yes, you need to register an account to watch the streams, however recordings are stored on a sd card. They also offer door bells, which require a gateway, which then stores all the recordings. Eufy adversites it’s products for being secure and private, however… I just think everything comes with a price and Eufy offers a fair trade between privacy and comfortabity/usability.
So for me: Ring is a no-go and I’m not willing to set up and maintain a homebrew-solution.
I've got some code that implements the "request signature" mechanism (the missing piece of the puzzle in the above issue) that might make this more obvious - you'll notice that the TuyaAPISession class only takes a username (the aforementioned sequential ID) and country code, no password (as it's hardcoded and the same for everyone): https://gitlab.com/Rjevski/eufy-device-id-and-local-key-grab...
http://www.grandstream.com/products/facility-management/faci...
However, with anything like this for a family, unless they share the same enthusiasm for DIY tech projects, frustrations will occur, and you will be the target of that frustration anytime it doesn't work :(
Crime rate where I live is low. Regardless that’s what insurance is for. And I’m not even sure if the doorbell would deter anyone.
Even in a large house I don’t mind coming to the front door to answer the rare unexpected visitor.
That leaves keeping delivery people honest and not throwing deliveries. But again I haven’t had that problem and if I did that’s what the return process is for.
Are these the reasons and I’m just clearly not the target market. If so how are you different that it’s an important purchase to make?
Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
Wot?!? It appears you've never experienced the feeling that someone was in your house, your bedroom and went through your stuff - perhaps even while you were home... Money cannot fix everything. It can help, but the creepy feeling that your home is no longer private cannot be repaired...
You're probably better off looking for the root cause of why you've got that creepy feeling in the first place.
I think because someone broke into their house?
In general, the perception of crime rates are often very out of sync with actual crime rates.
I am not sure though, if a video doorbell would have prevented the break-in. (I am not in the US and I know no one with a video doorbell).
It’s also useful if we are out of town and need a neighbor to grab a delivery.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin (yeah, I know this quote is misused but it has been co-opted into a new meaning that is relevant)
Do you mean something like the Nest Cam with floodlight?
https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_cam_floodlight
I’m not purely worried about a break in. It’s a peace of mind thing when something weird happens outside your house, you can find out what it was without having to worry.
Small and simple example: one morning my wife went to leave for work and the side door was open to her minivan. We’ve had cars broken into before when traveling and this definitely put us on alert. We had to check and see what was missing, wonder how they got in, wonder if the car was safe to drive or if they’d taken the garage door opener.
Then we checked the cameras and the door opened by itself about 30 minutes before she walked outside. One of us must have bumped the keys in our pockets. :)
Seeing that on video took something that would have had us worried into something that was no longer a big deal.
Personally I have other projects to tackle first, but could see myself doing that one day. Thank you for the example.
I appreciate your honesty, but whoa is this a loaded comment. A few things to note:
- Crime is deterred greatly by the probability of getting caught. If a criminal were to see that video is constantly be recorder it would likely lessen the chance of crime happening. In theory your crime rate in your neighbor could be low due to other people having this security on their houses (and thus providing an overall deterrent of "this is a bad place to try to burglarize someone because there are cameras everywhere!")
- Insurance premiums are tied to probabilities of crime. Often times insurance companies will offer discounts if you have security mechanisms. Also, lets say someone does burglarize your house, your insurance premiums will go up in the future.
- Lastly and probably the most simple. Why on earth would you ever want to simply rely on insurance as a remediation to your possessions? Can you replace that unique piece of art with money? What if you were injured by a burglar? etc. etc.
- The people committing the crimes frequently have untreated mental illness or addictions, and do not care about getting caught.
- Even if you have video and/or proof, they will not be prosecuted. If you have, for example, Find my iPhone, the police will not help you retrieve it even if you have high resolution images of the thief and GPS coordinates and can remotely trigger a loud noise on it.
- Insurance premiums are already insanely high regardless.
Anecdotal but investigative effort and interest from local police departments feels like it's at an all time low for low level crime like vandalism, package theft, etc. Not really passing judgement, perhaps those departments simply have more important things to do for society, but we might as well fill the gap with technology for now.
1. Because I want to know when a delivery occurs so I can promptly retrieve the package.
Most of the time delivery staff don't ring/knock or I may not hear in my office, a simple motion detection camera would do this just as well, but a combined device is simply more convenient.
2. To record who enters and leaves my house and when.
Whether it's friends visiting or a home invader, it's important that I have a record of this in case I find myself in a situation where I need this evidence in the future. For better or for worse (and I think for the worse), the mere existence of these devices means lacking this evidence can be incriminating against yourself, so having evidence to support your own case in the future is simply prudent.
3. So I can respond to people without needing to open the door.
There are all sorts of solicitors and others who go around ringing doorbells, and in general I don't want to speak to them at all, but I also find it more expedient to respond. By doing so through the doorbell I don't have to open the door and expose myself to forced entry risk (which unfortunately is commonplace).
The funny thing about insurance is, that there's no insurance that reasonably covers your packages once a confirmed delivery has been made but prior to you retrieving it, and there is also no insurance that covers the results of a home invasion or incorrect (possibly malicious) prosecution, other than possibly replacing non-unique property (after deductible). An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I did find your third point on solicitors rather interesting. I get so few that often I'm curious to see who is out and about (maybe 1 every 6 months).
Psychological coddling. The same reason people put take over their webcams, even though an attacker than has remote code execution on your machine to access it can already steal all your files, records audio and otherwise own you.
It's the old there's a bear chasing you and another person - you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other person.
Many criminals avoid houses with cameras, dogs, security systems, etc. Why go to the extra trouble of dealing with the defenses when some other house doesn't have any? Low hanging fruit...
Also I find it hilarious that Amazon deliveries don't even ring the doorbell, they just knock the door, drop the package on the door step, and vanish before you even unlock the door.
I've been really happy with my Frigate setup and previously wrote a few words about the switch: https://senryu.pub/afternoonrobot/articles/replacing-unifi-v.... It has taken me ages to find a viable doorbell, however, which is why I've only just ordered the AD410. I'm pretty hopeful for it, and a colleague already has one and really likes it.
Just subscribed to your blog in the hope you do another write-up about the Amcrest camera!
I’ll definitely be writing up a few more things soon! I tend to go through bursts of sorting my Home Assistant stuff out.
I'm sure the setup experience is less easy and seamless than a Nest, but it's more locally controlled, all video is locally recorded not in the cloud, and you get a strong management interface for large footprints.
I assume it does have some server that it talks to so that push notifications work, though.
https://www.netatmo.com/en-us/security/doorbell