Ask HN: How do you manage your personal documents?

261 points by ftio ↗ HN
As I get older, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to manage the seemingly constant influx of 'important' documents.

Fortunately, most documents are sent to me digitally, where I can easily file them on my computer and back them up.

For non-digital documents like auto lease paperwork, home-related legal documents, major bills that I want to keep around, etc, my filing system is incredibly poor. By 'poor', I mean: it takes far too long to find the document I'm looking for, it's difficult to decide where to file something, and it's too difficult to find things.

Every few years, we take a stab at reorganizing our files, but the lack of searchability and the other affordances of digital documents leaves me wanting more.

How do you organize your personal documents? Do you digitze them somehow? Do you have a great filing system? I want to know.

185 comments

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The important thing is that you never lose anything. An accountant may have messy stacks of paperwork all over their office but they always bundle them together.

I have an inbox for mail. I throw out junk and envelopes and put things that are important-but-not-actionable in a plastic tote in chronological order. Bills go in there after they are paid. (By me)

Every six months or so or when tax time comes around my wife files the papers. She gets depressed doing it, but at least bills get paid on time because I don’t get depressed about filing paper in real time.

In a file system.

By familial entity (family, mum, dad, kids)

Then By year/month/day (bills) Or time independent (diploma, ...)

Then if I need to organize a document for my family auto

- the contract goes to family > auto

- the bills go to family > yearmonth > yearmonth_auto_provider-name.pdf

A search on the tree on file name is enough for us.

I have a filing cabinet with two drawers. Inside are many folders, each dedicated to a particular specific subject - car loan documents, 2018 tax documents, etc.

Those folders are grouped together by broader subject - loan documents, tax documents, etc. - in alphabetical order.

Do you have a second backup copy somewhere?
No, I don't.

However, the most important documents I've digitized and keep in a secure digital datastore.

We have a family filing system in a set of file cabinets with pendaflex folders. But the past few years I scan (with smartphone) all significant documents received and upload to cloud storage. Then if I need a document (particularly for annual tax filing) I pull it from the cloud where it is indexed by name and creation time stamp.

In the case of documents that have a reliable internet service source (e.g. Amazon order receipts) I don't even bother filing or scanning. Instead I go get the document again from its source if I need it. Amazon keeps orders going back to the beginning, afaik.

I've got myself a multi function printer with an adf. Everything that is in my physical inbox is scanned and put on my NAS.

There is a custom program running in a container that will feed any new doc to pdfsandwich (or similar OCR tooling), move the doc into a digital inbox prefixed with the current date. From there I can either leave it as it is (the date is usually good enough to find things) or - if I get to it - give it a proper name and put it into a folder structure (like some of the other responders).

The custom tooling also indexes all docs and provides my family a web interface to search.

Simple and effective.

Scan to searchable PDF. Dump in folders named for the year the document is relevant/scanned. I never need 99% of it, but when I do need something, search usually finds it or gets me in the neighborhood.
I don't have a great filing system, but it has been sufficient so far: have all documents in the same folder, put their respective date in the filename together with some tags ("yymmdd_name_and_tags.pdf"), and convert scans to searchable PDFs with "ocrmypdf" on Linux.

The date and comprehensive filename is often enough to find a document, but additionally I can do a "full text search" on all documents with the text layer that is put onto scans by the OCR.

I've been using paperless-ng for a while. https://github.com/jonaswinkler/paperless-ng

I have a Samba share that I added as a destination on my network scanner. I then tag them, add a correspondent, and never think about them again. PDFs that are sent to me are just uploaded and tagged the same way.

The paper copies are then thrown into a box in hopes I never need the originals.

I back up the document storage regularly.

Oh man, I knew it was dangerous to read this thread. Paperless-ng looks awesome.

You may have just convinced me to ditch Evernote.

Thanks to you next weekend will likely be a write-off :-)

I’ve been wanting to get off Evernote for years. I can see myself using this in combination with Obsidian.

What is driving you away from Evernote? I haven't found it really lacking, but I might be missing something.
Not the parent, but given they are moving to Obsidian I'd say it's motivated by a desire to self-host and rely less on cloud services.
For me it's just painfully slow.
I think when it comes to organising work / papers / notes, etc., over time you converge to more and more minimal tools, that do some particular thing really well and really fast, rather than continuing to use a more locked-in GUI version that hides limitations behind ease-of-use. Evernote is great - you just might find that you'll outgrow it at some point and look for something with a bit more fine-grained control.

I'm speaking from the point of view of having looked at using all the different flashy to-do lists, all the different 'revolutionary' note taking tools (including Evernote quite extensively), and now using Obsidian, which is basically an IDE for markdown with ability to link files to one another.

The simpler tools force you to come up with systems of organisation / linking if you want to do something more complex, but that's the great thing - you get to build your own system incrementally to a point where it's something that actually works really well for you. It's also Electron, so you can write your own plugins!

It’s a desire to get off cloud based tools where storage of highly personal data is encouraged but without no-knowledge encryption in place, which is increasingly frustrating to me.

Especially for a company like Evernote who are no strangers to security issues.

I also dislike the “AI based” content suggestion crap or whatever that is. I don’t want that in my note taking tool. Things like that cross a line for me. It feels yucky.

And in general Evernote has totally stagnated as a product in my opinion.

I’d even happily pay them more money if the product fitted more in alignment with my use-case.

It’s really been great over the years but there is so much they could have done to keep it relevant and for me it just isn’t any more.

DropBox has gone a little in the same direction. An “originally great” disruptive product that sadly has bloated and stagnated without adding much more actual value on top of the original concept.

I wish Evernote was stagnate. Instead some product manager is trying to make a name for themselves and monkey patched a ToDo app in and made the UI harder to use.

What's border line criminal is the new version is WAY slower than the old one.

I do the same, and I bought a self-incrementing stamp that I use to give (paper) documents an ID. The originals are then sorted only by that ID.

That way, I don't need to have a date for every document.

By this you mean an actual physical self-incrementing ink stamp?

I’ve not heard of this before but it’s cool!

Physical, self-incrementing ink stamps are indeed cool. Sonme can be set to increase the number every 2 or 3 stamps, meaning that you can stamp an original and its copy with the same number by stamping them right after one another.
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Can paperless ingest directly from cloud storage (Dropbox, etc)?
If your filesystem can see the cloud storage, yes. You can create a directory designated "consume" and it will pull whatever it finds and can handle from there. Maybe that doesn't qualify as "directly", but I don't find it a blocker since paperless needs a computer to run on anyway, so mounting a cloud provider (or NAS in my case) is not much extra.
Paperless periodically looks for and reads PDFs dumped into a folder. However it gets there (scanner writes to network drive, you copy a PDF to it, cloud storage daemon syncs a cloud folder's contents with it) does not matter to Paperless.
Agreed, paperless-ng is awesome. Coupled with a NAS for backup and a Brother 1700 Scanner to scan to network folder.
Another user of paperless-ng here. For a while, I used another open-source alternative Mayan EDMS - https://www.mayan-edms.com/.

As opposed to paperless, Mayan provides fine grained access control via ACLs and also allows 'directories' in addition to tags. Dropped it after a while though, since it was too enterprise-y and for in-depth configuration, the documentation was insufficient and I would have to buy the advertised book. Paperless-ng is sufficient for my personal use, though I still miss having directories as an additional level of hierarchical organization alongside tags.

Since I don't have a scanner, I just use the Microsoft Lens app to scan documents on my phone (Android). Paired with Syncthing (https://syncthing.net/), my documents are automatically synced to my desktop from where paperless-ng picks it up from the watched folder and automatically adds it. Tags and correspondents can be automatically added based on keywords in the text.

Is there a similar thing but for organising images? I have a bunch of image folders on my NAS but I would love it to be searchable, automatically tagged by certain criteria so I can filter them, etc. But self-hosted. I don't want to use Google Photos or Dropbox.
For photos, I find Lightroom to be great. But you're still going to have to spend some time on curation, metadata, etc. if you really want things to be findable.
I haven't used it, but stumbled across Damselfly [1].

From the About on GitHub:

> Damselfly is a server-based Photograph Management app. The goal of Damselfly is to index an extremely large collection of images, and allow easy search and retrieval of those images, using metadata such as the IPTC keyword tags, as well as the folder and file names. Damselfly includes support for object/face detection, and face-recognition.

[1] https://github.com/Webreaper/Damselfly

I'm building that! Some of the features that make PhotoStructure unique:

- self-hosted on docker, Linux, macOS, or Windows

- cross-platform libraries that can track assets across volumes without duplication [1]

- supports reading and writing to .XMP sidecars and Google Takeout JSON files [2]

- sophisticated image and video deduplication [3]

- quick and novel "samples" UI designed to scale to extremely large libraries (500k+)

https://PhotoStructure.com/why

[1]: https://photostructure.com/faq/what-is-a-volume/

[2]: https://photostructure.com/faq/takeout/

[3]: https://photostructure.com/faq/what-do-you-mean-by-deduplica...

Photoprism has been doing fine on me.
I have been trying teedy

https://github.com/sismics/docs

It stores everything into postgresql... filesystems are ok but it can get out of hand.

I am trying to deploy on microK8s with helm3

I feel your pain. Life seems to get more completed over time, especially when you’re managing properties, businesses, etc.

I scan everything with ScannerPro on my iPhone (which OCRs text to make it searchable) as items come in via mail etc. or print to PDF if I see myself needing something later. Scanned docs sync to Dropbox, and I move them to their appropriate Dropbox folder (e.g. property, taxes by year, biz, etc.) when I sit down at my laptop. It’s worked pretty well. I think the key is focus on the new docs, and you’ll eventually stop needing to refer to the old paper docs in your old folders (rather than trying to scan literally everything, which seems like a daunting task).

Are scanners worthwhile?

Phone cameras are easy and good, and I'll never need a perfectly cropped scan

Paperless + a custom telegram bot I wrote that receives any document I sent to it (usually taken with an app called Notebloc)

The bot names and places the file in the right folder for paperless to ingest.

Everything goes digital using a document scanner. I have a Fujitsu Scansnap, it connects to my computer via wifi so it doesn't have to be near my computer.

For digital, I use Google Drive, with rough organization of Taxes/2021, Taxes/2020, ..., Health, Family, Notes, etc. Don't obsess too much, you rarely go back in time so it's OK to keep it lightweight and optimize for the "now" when inserting and spend that little extra time searching later when retrieving.

The exception are things that are too tedious to scan (50+ page mortgage doc), are required to be paper for legal reasons (birth certificates), or sentimental items. Those are surprisingly few, and go into a hanging-folder plastic tub that has a waterproof gasket on the lid.

Most damage from house fires is the water from the firehoses, so it's important to protect from water damage first, then worry about fire damage if you keep your documents at the top of your home (attic). I store my document tub in the bottom of my closet, so it's relatively safe.

I would highly recommend using some automatic gdrive backup system. If you’ve read HN for a few years, you must have seen how occasionally Google makes an automated mistake and locks or even deletes your account and its data.
100% agree! I have local digital copies too :)

And honestly, I'm slowly de-Googling my life and will moving (or at least replicating) my online storage elsewhere.

Scansnap ix500, scan to pdf with ocr, save to google docs, all in same folder, search what I want via browser interface.
My personal management style is to avoid being a hoarder. It can be a challenge, but really most of this stuff doesn't need to be kept long-term.

The main threat model these days is digital, rather than physical. I favor paper records, in a folder by tax year (sorted by month). The iPhone Notes app has a really good document scanner built in, if you need a digital copy you can create it, then delete it. For the house I have a house folder, for the car I have a car folder. I just pay cash for cars, so that really cuts down on documents needed (this kind of thing should be part of your decision-making process!).

> For the house I have a house folder, for the car I have a car folder.

I found that such an approach doesn't work for me. I currently own two cars but in the past I have owned over ten cars in my life. I keep purchase and sale documents for each car in a separate folder until no longer needed. I keep maintenance records in their own separate folders. When I sell a car I no longer need, I pass the maintenance records on to the buyer, and I easily locate the title to sign over in the purchase/sale folder from last time. Having these together wouldn't make sense because purchase/sale is a one-time event whereas maintenance happens all the time. For example, to answer the question should I accept my mechanics' recommendation to replace some given part, I review the documents and show them that they already replaced it last year, so they better have a really good reason why it needs replaced again this year.

Finally, there are other records related to cars such as insurance documents. These I just keep for one year only so having them separate in their own folder is a better idea to make it easy to prune out the old/no-longer-necessary documents.

If the original paper document must be kept it is filed in a small “house is on fire,” yet “burn proof” to-go folder.

Otherwise everything is digitized and shredded. iOS has a great scanner built into Notes, which can be exported / airdropped as a pdf.

Digital assets can be kept in a managed shared cloud folder like Dropbox or 1pw if containing secrets / identity matters.

I put all paper documents I receive on top of a stack. Therefore it's roughly sorted by date.

If I need to get an invoice from last december, I just lookup around this date in my stack.

Time spent to store information : 0 ; time spent to find something : a few minutes, once every other month.

Every five years, I take the bottom of the stack and file it in the cellar. And I come back from the cellar with 10 year old documents I can either trash (in my office secured bin) or keep in my filing box.

I also keep contracts (insurance, bank, ...) in this filing box.

Last thing : All documents that will be used for my tax returns (at least the equivalent of it in France) go in one folder. I will use it once a year then file this in the "taxes" box.

This would be my ideal way of doing it! Too bad my memory isn’t good enough to remember dates even in the scale of years and I probably wouldn’t be able to locate contracts/warranty papers etc with ease. I’m curious to try it still however just to see.
For me, the few things that are more important (insurance paperwork, certain types of health records, legal stuff, etc.) I do file separately in a file cabinet (or my fireproof box). But tossing most of it in a pile works pretty well--and anything it turns out I do need (e.g. for filing taxes) is almost certainly near the top of the pile.
So when you need something and find it, do you just restack it on top of the pile, or do you spend time to locate the correct time slot in the pile and slide them in there?
> top of the pile

MRU cache, if you will

Now it's not sorted so you're going to end up having to do a linear scan of the entire pile if you do this regularly.
I leave a mark (folding the next sheet for instance) to be able to put the paper at the same place when I'm finished using it.
I do exactly this, except I take a time-stamped photo of it and throw the hard copy away. Google docs automatically turns it into a PDF.

It increases the Big O on capturing it, but reduces space and access complexity.

For long running docs like titles, and certifications, passports, and whatnot I stick in an important papers storage Tupperware so it's safe from water damage

Nitpicking (of course, HN, what did you expect): capturing is still O(1).
HA. True I guess it just adds a constant to capture time . Good catch.
I would argue that it’s O(n), increasing linearly with number of pages of the document ;-).
I see where you're coming from and we're probably getting wayyy in the weeds on this...:)....but I think they mean an insert of item into already existing array is O(1) and from your perspective ..traversal over time would be O(n) so I think y'all might both correct from diff perspectives.

I was thinking increasing insert time would increase Big O but they made the point that it's a constant which will cancel out as n approaches infinity.

God I'm a nerd.

I do exactly the same. My stack is around 3cm every year, very manageable. Important documents i probably need to look at again, I also scan with my phone and store them in my backuped documents folder on my pc.
I do this too. If there's one Life Rule I've learned as I got older, it's that YAGNI extends well beyond software development.

The "important papers pile" is a great example of that. Not a second spent wondering where to put something, or even whether it's worth keeping at all.

I do this, too. It started because I was lazy but it turned out to be an almost optimal solution when comparing effort and use. I needed some specific document from a certain date from a huge stack of 3 years of documents. Some eyeballed manual binary searching and I was at my desired document within 5 or 6 lookups.
I used to do this, and then I got married. My wife can't spend a month without rearranging the whole damn house though so it didn't scale to marriage. Now I just have a box I throw everything into that might be important. My few critically important things like birth certificate, passport, residency card, etc. live separately in a fireproof safe.
I just want to comment that your wife sounds like comedy awesomenesss.. So be kind and (in whatever way is your style) show her some appreciation....

EDIT: Its date-night bitch - figure it out

Ha I have the same problem. My wife is constantly cleaning and my organization strategy used to rely on remembering the last place I put something. Our home looks amazing but I can never find anything.
This is pretty much my system as well. It's funny, I thought I was the only one "cheating" in this way, but the comments here indicate that I am in good company.
For over a decade my no-brainer digital file system at both home and work is similar.

Auto-file everything as a time-stack:

- new files go on the desktop

- if I didn't name file right rules automatically rename it per ISO 8601 to "YYYY-MM-DD - title.ext"

- after the file isn't opened for >2 days, it gets auto-sorted into (more or less) "archive/yyyy-mm/yyyy-mm-dd - title.ext"

- note: stick to ISO 8601 across tooling: https://www.iso.org/iso-8601-date-and-time-format.html

With this system, the effect is:

- my desktop has today's and yesterday's working files, everything else is auto-cleaned (you may want 5 or 7 days depending on nature of file work)

- when i need something, I "lookup around that date in my stack" because I find it easier to find things by time than by trying to re-imagine what I'd named it.

- when working somewhere where i create more content then I consume, I group by weeks not months: "archive/yyyy-ww/file" (given ~520 folders per decade, you may, or may not, want "archive/yyyy/yyyy-ww/file" depending on your file system's speed at iterating dirs)

- turn week numbers on your calendar, and you can directly open any folder for any week you did stuff.

- no brain power needed!

More about usage:

Method works beautifully even if you prefer topical folders like project-name or finances or whatever, and computer search is fast/easy at still showing you everything made in a given month no matter what folder it's in.

Seeing files by when made visually 'bundles' files made around the same time (e.g. several days' or weeks' work on the same project). Update dates for new versions and a find by name for the rest of the file name will show you all the versions you have, sorted.

This is infinitely superior to the standard workplace practice of "Title Whatever v3 (tim edits B) jfk (copy).doc".

Thanks to the date prefixed name, if I email files, backup/restore them, or otherwise round trip them to some other file system (looking at you, most NAS, SANs, and object stores), I don't lose the metadata of when created, meaning I can still sort round tripped files by name reversed and see files by recency or clustered by when made.

If I can't find by looking around the date, I can always fiddle with search to find things.

I now get unhappy any time a file doesn't start with a date.

Pro-tips: Apple Shortcuts supports ISO 8601 by name for dates and time. On MacOS I use Hazel to maintain this w/o touching it: https://www.noodlesoft.com ... On Windows I use powershell, Linux perl.

I've really been getting into organization just by chronology lately. I don't separate notes by topic anymore, I just write all notes chronologically with dates to break up days. This way I can always flip back through the pages around the time I was working on something to find what notes I took.

I wonder if there are any digital document organizers like this. Something you just drag and drop important digital documents you want to keep track of and it automatically adds date and time information so you can browse through them in the order they've been added.

Wouldn't the filesystem suffice for this? It already tracks creation and modification times, so all you'd need to do is sort chronologically in your UI of choice.

If you wanted something Web-based, you could use Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, etc. and get similar functionality.

It could, but like another user pointed out the last file modification time isn't necessarily going to stay chronological forever, so something that understands the order in which documents are put in is immutable unless I explicitly rearrange them would be good. Easy text searching through multiple file types to help narrow down a search faster, automated encryption and cloud storage backup, syncing between multiple devices. All the usual nice stuff you would expect for an app like this.

It could watch certain directories on your computer or in cloud storage and create a queue to suggest adding new documents that appear there in the same order of their appearance, that way you never forget to add an important document and they still get put in chronologically even if you haven't checked the queue in months. It could make different "vaults" you could use to separate documents by person, or separate work and personal life. Vaults could have long-term upkeep rules to keep them from getting bloated, like maybe you delete everything that's 10 years or older.

Basically if it can help me even if I have sloppy organization and take a ton of the pain out of it for me, I'd definitely be willing to pay a bit to try an app like that. Can't say for sure that I would stick with it, but it's a reoccurring problem for me as I have documents across multiple devices, cloud services, emails accounts, and thumb drives that I just can't make myself organize or create and maintain a system to do it for me.

I did this in high school, which was, in terms of school work anyway, pre-computer, so everything was paper all the time. I was aware of people's binders and notebooks and so forth, but somehow ended up just accumulating looseleaf paper folded up in my back pocket until I ran out of space and ended up throwing most or all of it out and starting over.

I might resume that practice, now that I think of it.

I've been using https://joplinapp.org, which is an open source Evernote alternative. It has Linux/Mac/Windows/Android/iOS clients, supports multiple sync methods, and end-to-end encryption. Truly a great app.
I scan my paper documents then give them a meaningful name and drop them into a folder. I just give them a name that I can search for later and maybe create a folder for related items (car, job).

You can organize it better, but the truth is that search works well enough and you are probably not going to need it.

A few years ago I made a conscious effort to be as paperless as possible. I'm pretty much there now with almost everything I need accessible on my laptop.

I use a Doxie [0] scanner and scan absolutely everything meaningful: documents, receipts, invoices, physical photos, note from friends, Christmas cards, credit cards etc. Having a "scan everything" attitude means I don't have to think about what I do and don't scan. I try and save as many of these files as PDFs with OCR (which the Doxie supports)

Every week or two I dump all of the scans from the Doxie into my "Downloads" folder where I rename any files that have obvious content to something more meaningful (easier to search this way). Anything that needs to be manually filed (company documents for example) I do myself.

Everything else get automatically sorted using Hazel [1] after 2 weeks in the Download folder. They get sent to an "Archive" folder that is split into subfolders: PDFs, videos, images, music, design files, documents, etc. All files are automatically sorted into [year]/[month] folders.

This archive is great as it becomes a location for everything that doesn't have a home. For example I also perform a WhatsApp backup every month or two that adds all new photos and content that I've received from people into the same Archive. Likewise anything I've downloaded that hasn't been deleted or moved somewhere can be found there.

[0]: https://www.getdoxie.com/product/doxie-go

[1]: https://www.noodlesoft.com

For physical files, I have a file cabinet for "short-term" stuff (and/or things that I don't care if they get burned in a tragedy (or that I plan TO burn when their usefulness expires))

For "long-term" "important" files, I have some fire-resistant safe boxes

For "really-important" stuff, I use a gun safe (this list is incredibly tiny)

I gave up on organizing, I try for form sake but have everything indexed with DEVONthink. For e-mail I use Mailmate which has a great search function. Together they make sure I can find my stuff wherever it may be. Works like a charm, but it's an apple only solution.
Organize files by ISO date (YYYY-MM-DD.whatever you want.pdf). I learned this somewhere in the beancount plaintext accounting guide ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tss0IEzEyAPuKSGeNsfNgb0B... )

It may be an upfront effort to get going if you have a morass of documents, but helps later on when searching for things. There's old command-line tools like 'qmv' if you want to easily do bulk renaming within a text editor.

I scan everything into PDFs using Scanbot or SwiftScan or whatever that iOS app is called this month. It gets dumped into a Scanbot folder in iCloud Drive. Why? So I can access stuff from my iPhone.

Same thing with PDF statements, invoice, receipts, etc I receive via email or whatever. Goes into the giant folder.

Most of the time, I don't even bother renaming the filename to something useful like "Auto Loan Statement". The handy thing that Scanbot does is OCR the scanned content, so I can use macOS's Spotlight to easily pull up whatever I'm looking for. It works really well and I don't worry about it, anymore.

At some point, I may get an itch to run Spotlight queries and start dumping stuff into organized subfolders, but that itch hasn't come yet.

The one thing I break out into an individual subfolder are my yearly tax docs.

I've never been able to stick to an organizational plan involving renaming files with ISO dates (but in fact, Scanbot renames it with ISO date automatically) and organizing stuff into sub-folders. You're a better (wo)man than me, if you can stick with that, though.

Awesome. I will do this. I also need a way to ocr and save pdfs emailed to me that weren’t saved properly to have embedded ocr.