OP here was also OP there. This looks like an issue clearly of concern to them, but there is some piece of the story we are missing if they repeat this question once a year or so while still participating on the site between asks.
You aren’t missing anything. Everything is public and I am an open book about this situation. I’m a privacy advocate, I delete accounts on social media from time to time, just not on HN, thus the posts. I have chatted with dang, posted, and emailed HN.
What I do to mitigate the issue is switch account every few months... It means that I usually can't down-vote and flag post or comments, but it is worth it
My job is not to facilitate someone else’s needs and wants. The problem here is a lack of a delete button. That is primus here. I don’t have to answer your question. You have to answer mine.
Then that’s a problem. If my content is worth something then I should be paid or is should have a delete button. This isn’t trivial. I’m well versed in copyright. I have copyrights and receive in software, and from record labels. Compensation or deletion, there is no middle ground. Period
If my comments are not handy, delete them. If they are handy then I deserve compensation. If I created it I can destroy it. If I created it and was not compensated then I maintain ownership and copyright control. Delete them now! This has been fought in courts and won.
Most HN users are circumventing copyright restriction and paywalls to make content available to a wider audience. Weirdly enough they draw the line with citations, this is why so many projects are attributed to weird internet nicks.
Usually doxxing those nicks wouldn't result in financial compensation, but lots of legal trouble.
What you want is fringe and confusion to me, especially in this context. You control your nick and your comments are attributed to it.
If somebody else uses your comments for something useful, they can cite your nick.
Irrelevant to our concerns here. What other people do with other information is not my concern. What HN does with my information is of direct concern and legal consequence.
The legal notes at https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou say
"By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. " .
If you do not wish your User Content to be displayed, I recommend that you do not upload it to the site.
[disclaimer to avoid any possible appearance of pretending to be affiliated with the site in any way beyond just being a user of it, goes here]
HN's approach hasn't changed since the last time you brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865. Sending aggressive emails to other departments at YC isn't going to make it change, and neither is posting metathreads to HN.
For users who might not know about the approach we take—here's a typical response I send to emails:
HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because
that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which
would be unfair to the other users in those threads. But we can
randomize the username and disable the account if you'd like.
We also often delete or redact specific posts that users are worried
about. If that would help, send us links and we'll take a look. We
don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN.
The reason for this approach is that deletion is a complex issue with tradeoffs between competing interests: individual interest in privacy, other commenters' interest in having their posts remain intelligible, the community's interest in having its archive preserved. There are no perfect solutions, so a line has to be drawn somewhere.
One reason why I say there are no perfect solutions is that there are copies of the HN archives all over the internet. We don't control those, so a determined attacker wouldn't find it hard to get around any deletion we do, even if we deleted everything.
Since there's no way to satisfy all concerns nor to provide perfect protection, it's all about where to draw the line in the solution space, knowing that any line we draw is going to leave something unsatisfied. The way we draw the line–no wholesale deletion, but specific deletion/redaction along with username randomization—has so far held up as a good compromise over the years. It goes back many years: pg wrote about it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226, and if you read deeper in that thread you'll see that he agreed with username randomization as the key missing piece. We added that some years later. Until new information shows up that changes the landscape significantly, I think it makes sense to stick with it.
We care a lot about meeting users' concerns for protection and we take care of these requests literally every day—we just try to do it with more precise tools than wholesale deletion. It's rare for anyone to go away unhappy—certainly 99%, probably 99.9% are satisfied with how we respond. Those that do go away unhappy tend either to express their concerns rather theoretically (as a philosophical argument rather than something specific they need) or to be mad about something we did on the site (perhaps understandably, but that's not necessarily a reason to change this policy).
> HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to the other users in those threads.
“Unfair” is not a word I care about. “Fair use”, “pay for hire”, “ownership” and “compensation” are words I care about. Threaten me with ban, ok, get ready.
Pay me or delete. You don’t own my content cause you didn’t pay me. Pay me or delete.
Period.
>Pay me or delete. You don’t own my content cause you didn’t pay me. Pay me or delete. Period.
You weren't hired by YCombinator as a writer, nor was any contract for employment or payment negotiated as a term for your use of this forum. If you believe you're entitled to monetary compensation for your comments, then feel free to get a lawyer.
You can't, and won't, because even if you could make a case that you own your comments, no one is under any obligation to pay for something you literally gave away.
Mind you, I'm sympathetic to your cause - I'd like the option to at least delete my older comments, I'd very much prefer to be able to delete or at least suspend my account like on Reddit and/or mass delete my comments. Somehow other forums get away with that but for whatever reason Hacker News is sacrosanct and doesn't have to play be the rules of common decency that the rest of the web does.
But your argument here is plainly irrational and probably legally untenable. HN is not going to pay you, and they're not deleting your comments. Just accept that and move on with life.
>TOS could be construed as a contract. In fact, it is. It’s been tested.
If it is, it's not a contract which obligates YCombinator to pay you anything. That sort of thing has to specifically be in the contract... you don't just get paid because "it's a contract," that isn't how contracts work.
>It’s not ‘given’ if it’s under terms of service. There was in fact, a contract.
Yes it is. Again, the existence of a contract, alone, doesn't automatically obligate payment.
Most platforms have terms of service under which you explicitly relinquish all rights to anything you post to the platform, to use in any way they wish, without compensation, forever in perpetuity throughtout the universe. Hacker News' terms of service are here: https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ nowhere is an obligation to pay for content mentioned.
>You are wrong. Pay or delete
You and your alts have fun in arbitration then, let us know how it goes.
> you don't just get paid because "it's a contract," that isn't how contracts work
That's exactly how a contract works. Contract specifies transaction. How do you not know this. transaction, entails something for something. A Transaction is never something for nothing. This is basic. You should know this.
HN is flagging and blocking my posts. alts are necessary.
> fun in arbitration
Typical corporate speak. If only hacker news would be able to see you, had you not shadow banned me.
41 comments
[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 78.5 ms ] threadIt looks like they are willing to work with you to preserve your anonymity, but I'm guessing from your post that this process hasn't worked for you.
I think that you have a really good point but at the same time missing the point.
does reddit have an option to mass delete all comments?
And what damages will you seek? There are no ads here
Usually doxxing those nicks wouldn't result in financial compensation, but lots of legal trouble.
What you want is fringe and confusion to me, especially in this context. You control your nick and your comments are attributed to it.
If somebody else uses your comments for something useful, they can cite your nick.
If you do not wish your User Content to be displayed, I recommend that you do not upload it to the site.
[disclaimer to avoid any possible appearance of pretending to be affiliated with the site in any way beyond just being a user of it, goes here]
(Look Dang, no name calling)
For users who might not know about the approach we take—here's a typical response I send to emails:
HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to the other users in those threads. But we can randomize the username and disable the account if you'd like.
We also often delete or redact specific posts that users are worried about. If that would help, send us links and we'll take a look. We don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN.
The reason for this approach is that deletion is a complex issue with tradeoffs between competing interests: individual interest in privacy, other commenters' interest in having their posts remain intelligible, the community's interest in having its archive preserved. There are no perfect solutions, so a line has to be drawn somewhere.
One reason why I say there are no perfect solutions is that there are copies of the HN archives all over the internet. We don't control those, so a determined attacker wouldn't find it hard to get around any deletion we do, even if we deleted everything.
Since there's no way to satisfy all concerns nor to provide perfect protection, it's all about where to draw the line in the solution space, knowing that any line we draw is going to leave something unsatisfied. The way we draw the line–no wholesale deletion, but specific deletion/redaction along with username randomization—has so far held up as a good compromise over the years. It goes back many years: pg wrote about it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226, and if you read deeper in that thread you'll see that he agreed with username randomization as the key missing piece. We added that some years later. Until new information shows up that changes the landscape significantly, I think it makes sense to stick with it.
We care a lot about meeting users' concerns for protection and we take care of these requests literally every day—we just try to do it with more precise tools than wholesale deletion. It's rare for anyone to go away unhappy—certainly 99%, probably 99.9% are satisfied with how we respond. Those that do go away unhappy tend either to express their concerns rather theoretically (as a philosophical argument rather than something specific they need) or to be mad about something we did on the site (perhaps understandably, but that's not necessarily a reason to change this policy).
“Unfair” is not a word I care about. “Fair use”, “pay for hire”, “ownership” and “compensation” are words I care about. Threaten me with ban, ok, get ready. Pay me or delete. You don’t own my content cause you didn’t pay me. Pay me or delete. Period.
You weren't hired by YCombinator as a writer, nor was any contract for employment or payment negotiated as a term for your use of this forum. If you believe you're entitled to monetary compensation for your comments, then feel free to get a lawyer.
You can't, and won't, because even if you could make a case that you own your comments, no one is under any obligation to pay for something you literally gave away.
Mind you, I'm sympathetic to your cause - I'd like the option to at least delete my older comments, I'd very much prefer to be able to delete or at least suspend my account like on Reddit and/or mass delete my comments. Somehow other forums get away with that but for whatever reason Hacker News is sacrosanct and doesn't have to play be the rules of common decency that the rest of the web does.
But your argument here is plainly irrational and probably legally untenable. HN is not going to pay you, and they're not deleting your comments. Just accept that and move on with life.
TOS could be construed as a contract. In fact, it is. It’s been tested.
It’s not ‘given’ if it’s under terms of service. There was in fact, a contract.
You are wrong. Pay or delete
If it is, it's not a contract which obligates YCombinator to pay you anything. That sort of thing has to specifically be in the contract... you don't just get paid because "it's a contract," that isn't how contracts work.
>It’s not ‘given’ if it’s under terms of service. There was in fact, a contract.
Yes it is. Again, the existence of a contract, alone, doesn't automatically obligate payment.
Most platforms have terms of service under which you explicitly relinquish all rights to anything you post to the platform, to use in any way they wish, without compensation, forever in perpetuity throughtout the universe. Hacker News' terms of service are here: https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ nowhere is an obligation to pay for content mentioned.
>You are wrong. Pay or delete
You and your alts have fun in arbitration then, let us know how it goes.
That's exactly how a contract works. Contract specifies transaction. How do you not know this. transaction, entails something for something. A Transaction is never something for nothing. This is basic. You should know this.
HN is flagging and blocking my posts. alts are necessary.
> fun in arbitration
Typical corporate speak. If only hacker news would be able to see you, had you not shadow banned me.
Nice corporate speak. Wouldn’t need alts if you didn’t shadow ban