Ask HN: Messed up my education, now 30 and regretting it. What to do?
Fortunately I was able to land a job in tech, an industry which cares a little bit less about credentials, and I've now held a number of jobs in software. I'm paid well and I think I'm pretty good at what I do. But then I look around and see the cool jobs in 3D graphics, in distributed systems, in machine learning, or other "hard computer science" fields, and it feels like I will never be qualified without a graduate degree.
It really bums me out and constantly thinking about it is starting to wear me out mentally. Putting my career on hold for a few years to go back to school has a very high opportunity cost right now, and even if I were to do that I would still feel like a massive screw-up for going back to university in my 30s. At the same time, I feel like I'm throwing away my potential and my curiosity about deeper technical topics.
Has anyone here been in a similar situation? What should I do?
120 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 179 ms ] threadYes and no. Some employers are going to consider a lack of a CS degree as a negative, including some really large employers with interesting projects. If you want to work directly for those employers on those projects, you will most likely need not just a CS degree but one from a prestigious program.
If it means that much to you, definitely consider doing it, but in my experience that’s already a very narrow and competitive field to pursue, so make sure you’re not just settling for any CS degree but one that has a network of graduates working in those fields already.
-stay working but study at night; to avoid debit and continue to increase years of experience
-Once you have the certs, then eval if you really want the degree.
-Some companies offer tuition reimbursement; taking some night classes towards a degree shows employers motivation
-maybe change jobs every 3-5 years to stay fresh or at least interview periodically other companies
Beware of burnout, you may find that the certifications gives you enough mobility. Years of experience plus certification should get you in the door to most jobs. You may hit your 40s and realize you should have spent more time with loved ones.
Tuition had and has gone up an insane amount even since I've been out, I'm not sure I'd make the same choice today. As it is, for two years of school I spent 10 years paying it off (probably could have done it a bit faster).
But from an education and experience standpoint I don't regret it. And the feeling weird about being the oldest person there in most classes feeling went away after about two weeks.
If you just want a degree to say that you have one, and to complete something that you started, that's OK. But the way you approach solving that (casual evening courses over the next 3-4yrs) is different from "need a degree to get more specialized job", in which case it may be worth a more focused study to get your degree ASAP so you can change jobs.
If you just want to learn more about other topics, or go deeper - there's lots of approaches that don't require formal education. MOOCs, self-study with text books, seminars/auditing classes, etc.
Also, there is NOTHING wrong with going to school at 30. Or 40. Or 50. Or at any age. You will never be a loser for doing that.
https://www.kron4.com/news/national/age-is-just-a-number-to-...
This dude was almost 90 and got a phd. He isn't a screw up.
My advice would be that, if it's something that you would actually enjoy, or it'd scratch an itch you can't quite shake then go for it.
Edit: To add to this, I think working in tech industry now is very fast moving. I also put in a lot of effort to refresh & stay current. If you end up with the attitude of "it's too late to study", then you'll get left behind very quickly. Young people have a lot of free time and they catch up very very quickly.
I don't think a degree is going to help in say 3D graphics, but it will help your career. Definitely a disadvantage for those that don't.
I'm feeling this at my job now. Maybe it's better you felt it in school rather than at work. I dont want to "drop out"CB of my job since I need that for living expenses.
"But then I look around and see the cool jobs in 3D graphics, in distributed systems, in machine learning, or other "hard computer science" fields, and it feels like I will never be qualified without a graduate degree."
I have a masters. I feel this way too. I'm not qualified because I have no experience in these fields. If you're good and have side project experience in this, then you might get in.
The only thing degrees help with is not getting your resume trashed prior to an interview.
I think if your problem is that you don't like your day-to-day but your pay is ok, the best way out isn't through university. I think its by dedicating yourself to passion projects through great effort in your free time.
I'd really think carefully about why you want that degree.
> But then I look around and see the cool jobs in 3D graphics, in distributed systems, in machine learning, or other "hard computer science" fields, and it feels like I will never be qualified without a graduate degree.
Why do you feel that? What signals are you reading? Does this feeling apply across the board, or only to one or two of the fields you listed?
> What should I do?
Your title suggests that you may equate "credential" with education. I would take a serious look at that because it's far from a universal view. In fact, it may be the thing that's really holding you back.
But more than a few commenters here are saying that demonstrating ability is more important than pedigree. Perhaps I just need to get over the mental hump of obsessing over credentials.
Your feeling is, IMO misguided. Ok, some employers will be shortsighted, but the ones where you'll have a fulfilling career recognize that the person that taught themselves has proven that they can learn something new without explicit guidance, and had the grit to see it through themselves. This is something that freshly minted grads have yet to prove.
Don't get me wrong, I found my degree useful personally, it helps to have an education programme map out your unknown unknowns and turn them at into known knowns.
When hiring, with computer science graduates, I know that they at least know certain things (with a little prodding), but I don't yet know their capacity for learning new things unguided.
For non-graduates, I might need a little more time when hiring to figure out what they do know (if they're new to the industry), but when they can demonstrate skills I know they have capacity to learn for themselves.
It's not that it's better or worse to have the degree, it's just different, but some of the differences are to your advantage.
My performance did not match my perception and I was consistently outperforming my peers; getting recognition that I never felt I deserved. It turns out that practical experience is actually more valuable than academic experience. I would rather hire someone who's humble, driven, and ambitious but didn't go to CS school then someone who's none of those things but they have fancy degree.
Gov and bigco care about creds, esp early. Managers there are rarely judged on ultimate results as they are often far removed and just need to improve something predictable by say 1% and hit some fungible and redefinable goals. They are heavily into checklists for covering their ass in not going in the other direction: "Your team took down prod / project was late: why did you hire unaccredited ppl? You run a B team. My team needs 2x budget bc we have all CISSPs and PhDs, and are not responsible for final delivery bc that's grunt work." They do matter a bit later too, but more fungible: someone close to me is actively going through a ~50% pay negotiation based on the same work but differently creds & math being recognized.
Startups and smaller companies dont need to protect their fiefdom but make it exist & grow, so credentials mostly matter less and projects matter more. Early on whether you can actually code, which projects show. Later, whether you can actually run a project through various stages, vs ride on the coattails of someone else, which takes 1-3 years.
I want people to know I don’t deal in bullshit, and that I always do what I think is right, and that my whole life history qualifies me to cut through the nonsense. Being a dropout gives me street cred.
BTW the guys on the Curiosity Rover test team were great. One of the most satisfying classes I have taught, and I treasure the JPL polo shirt I bought at the campus store.
Having a degree for long time, the only usage where it is important is work visa application - in many countries you just won't be eligible for proper visa without degree. Besides that, the only thing I regretted were 6 years wasted in college.
No need to feel like a screw-up. While most students may be in their early 20s, there are plenty of people in similar situations to yours, including those who went into the military to pay for college.
Sure it would take twice the time, but unlike an undergrad you could study through the summer while working. Companies could even half fund this to upskill their workforce while retaining staff.
With so much education happening online, this should pre-eminently possible!
An Executive MBA is usually a very expensive rubber stamp for CEOs or VPs who clearly already have the skills an MBA would provide. The same university provides both an Executive MBA and a Global Executive MBA, which are 1.5 to 3x the cost and take substantially less time.
I have an engineering degree and masters in CS. That stuff looks impossible to me as well. However, I know some people who work in similar fields with very little formal education.
I'm not saying it won't help, I'm just saying it is neither the only door to those "hard" fields, nor it is a guarantee that those subjects will suddenly start making more sense.
You're looking across widely different fields that are each impossible for anyone to master (despite the degree being called a Masters).
To use an analogy, even the GOAT Michael Jordan couldn't transfer his skills across sports.
You could pick anyone of those, spend an entire lifetime (or several) and barely make any impact.
If you want to develop expertise in any field, go right ahead. But the idea that a PhD (or anything) would allow you to master multiple tech disciplines is a pipe dream.
There's no shame in this; I'm wondering where you got this feeling for, especially, because radical changes in 30s/40s are generally considered success stories (when successful, of course ;)).
> until I came to university, where I could never seem to care about the course material or putting effort into my classes [...] But then I look around and see the cool jobs in 3D graphics, in distributed systems, in machine learning, or other "hard computer science" fields, and it feels like I will never be qualified without a graduate degree.
There's a big risk here of liking the idea of something more than something itself. The yellow flag here is that if one likes "hard CS problems", they'd find the CS university subjects tendentially interesting, or anyway, worth completing. Of course there are exceptions, but it's worth thinking about it.
> Putting my career on hold for a few years to go back to school has a very high opportunity cost right now
If your current career is not the one you want, you're paying a "very high" opportunity cost by not changing it.
This assumes that it's not an economical problem, but I read "opportunity cost", so it seems it isn't. To be kept in mind that taking a 3 years break for work, for education, especially in the early 30s, does no harm to the career.
It's a good point. Worth noting that my degree was not in CS, but in another engineering discipline.
> If your current career is not the one you want, you're paying a "very high" opportunity cost by not changing it. [...] To be kept in mind that taking a 3 years break for work, for education, especially in the early 30s, does no harm to the career.
Also a good point. My friends are buying homes and settling down, and part of me feels that I should just stop worrying and do the same. Missing out on my current salary and going back to a student lifestyle would sting a little.
As long as you going to invest all this time and money, do it with recognizable university, not some online only program.
Your company may agree to pay part of it. US companies have some tax writeoff for employee education so it is basically free to them (up to some limit). It is usually not enough to cover the full tuition but still helps.
How did you manage that? Did you sleep occasionally? I'm in a similar situation (kids, job) and I just cannot see something like this could be possible without sacrificing one one front.
The industry has some luminaries who do AI/Graphics, etc., without having done much work in those areas in school.
See Jon Carmack, one of the greatest programmers alive. See Abrams. See Cooley. etc. etc.
It's a fallacy that grad school teaches you to do XYZ. You learn it on your own. It's just a forcing function to put you on a timeline.
Everything I know in computer science, outside the intro classes, I learned on my own.
I did take a 3D graphics course, but that mostly instilled some basic concepts. I have no idea how to do something like contribute to a 3D game. At best I'm slightly better equipped to do Google searches to try to figure things out.
I think you are being too hard on yourself. You can only become a specialist in one of these fields. Even if you were to dedicate your life on doing 3D graphics, you won't easily switch to a distributed systems or machine learning type of focus. Also, working on "hard" problems in these fields primarily happens in an industry/academic research type of job - these are really niche topics you have to throw your soul at to stay up to date/ahead in.