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Ask HN: Would You Work for Amazon?

33 points by rootsudo ↗ HN
I have recruiters reaching out weekly now for the past month - they're ramping up, I guess. I'm also in their hometown.

I always heard it was a rough/tough environment to work, long hours and it all comes down on your annual review. Equity is great though.

Roles are for devops, that's what interests me outside a general SDE role.

74 comments

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markus_zhang
Yes, definitely good for me. Bagging a few years as an amazon engineer probably improves greatly the chance to get more interesting work in the future. Of course any company equivalent should also be good.
bellyfullofbac
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-tracks-unregretted-at...

If you don't think you're part of the 6%... I've also had LinkedIn messages from someone who directly works for them, so it feels their approach is quite shotgun, i.e. just hire anyone and if it doesn't work out, that person can be part of the quota.

(It's different to other companies that know training someone to let them go soon after is costly.)

brundolf
No, and I've gladly turned them down over and over. The main reason for me is their ethics; the stories of it being a toxic work environment just make me feel even better about the decision.
schaum
same for me. Just wanted to write some ethical points, but list got longer and longer ...
crate_barre
If it was the only faang I could get into, of course, but even then I would be vigilant of their burnout culture and try to bounce within a year or so (if I see even a hint of it, I’m going to try to flip it within a year for another gig).

So yes, I’d use them. Why is Amazon not even trying to manage their reputation on this front?

willio58
Nope, I really think I’d feel lost morally if I worked for Amazon. I’d gladly make 100k less per year and work for a company that doesn’t union-bust
invalidname
Agreed. A lot of my friends work for Amazon, Google and Facebook. I can probably get glowing references from them since all of them have high regards of my work. I never bothered applying even when looking for work. I don't care how much they pay. All of these companies are awful and I'll never work for any of them.

I hear MS also has a very toxic environment but I have no close friends who work there.

[dead] mrbadideas
It’s a huge organization, so very much a situation where YMMV. It really all comes down to the team you land on. With that being said, teams constantly reorg / reshuffle, so that can change very quickly… which is a good and bad thing. Depending on where you are coming from, the work life balance isn’t nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Figure out what what metric YOU are being assessed on and optimize / document for that. Also pick 2-3 leadership principles to develop your brand around(hint one of them better be “earns trust”) Biggest suggestion is to document your accomplishments, since teams reorg, institutional memory is very short which is a double edged sword. Also keep in mind most of your co-workers will have less than 2 years of tenure and are also “figuring” it out, so if you feel like you are on your own.. it’s probably because everyone has no idea what they are doing yet. Stay positive, take feedback well, and things will be okay.
toomuchtodo
No. They keep asking, I keep saying no. Too old to sell the constitution I have left.

Is the equity still backloaded for the last two vesting years? Ask why.

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thrower123
Shit, yeah, if they were offering 300-400% of my current salary, as seems to be par for the course when they hire mid-level engineers.
benbristow
Yes. Even if just to put it on the CV and the bragging rights of telling your friends you work for Amazon.
hnaccount141
Amazon isn't exactly well known for their high hiring standards.
barbazoo
I recommend going through their recruiting process once to experience the ridiculousness, get the free lunch, talk to some folks. I wouldn't want to work for them though. For me, once I started working for an organization that actually tries to make the world a better place, actually living by real values, respecting employees, offering true work life balance, it's hard to ever consider a place like Amazon, it feels so foreign to me now.
stliu
okay where’d you find that??
pllbnk
I have gone through their recruiting process. It was very well organized and I enjoyed speaking with everyone involved. The developers and the managers I have spoke to were all nice people and I had good chemistry with everyone. I guess it depends on whom you are speaking to, as well as the location and department you are interviewing for. I ended up rejecting the offer but for different reasons.
barbazoo
It is well organized but basically a box ticking exercise (corporate values) with what I think are not very realistic or even creative whiteboard exercises. Everyone I've interacted with was very respectful but it's obvious that they go through tons of developers and therefore conducting an insane amount of interviews aimed at minimizing false positive hires. Not very inspiring, that's all I meant.
MrWiffles
No way in hell. The way they treat their warehouse workers should tell you everything you need to know about the character of the organization in general. You can tell a lot about a society, organization, etc. by how they treat the lowest among them.

That's not all, though. It's only a matter of time (how long? that's up for debate) until antitrust - be it real action, or merely the rumored specter thereof - results in some degree of upheaval internally. While I admit this is purely theoretical at the moment, it's certainly not outside the realm of reason to have concerns that said equity may wind up severely reduced in value if you get screwed by the timing of getting that equity vs. antitrust related events.

If I were in your shoes, unless I had no job at all and was desperate for the very first thing that came along, I'd give Amazon a hard pass for every possible role, bar none.

interviewer0000
Have you ever worked in the Amazon warehouse? I've been both L1 (Sortation associate in the warehouse) on the floor, and now L4 (entry level SDE). I'm not going to refute your claims - it just seems most people screaming "Think of the warehouse workers!" have never actually worked in any warehouse, let alone an amazon one.
durkie
This is a strange comment: you take no issue with what they're saying, but seem to imply they can't have an opinion on anything they haven't personally experienced.
MrWiffles
Not in an Amazon warehouse, but yes I have worked in a shipping warehouse in my early adulthood (19). It was hard work, sure, and my boss was an asshole who later got committed to the funny farm (seriously!). But I never had to take a shit while driving, I was never worked like a slave, and nobody ever implied something bad might happen to my family's jobs if I talked to a union rep either.

There's degrees here, and Amazon treats vulnerable people with a very high degree of hostility and abuse. That fact alone tells me everything I need to know about the people running that organization. They're not about mutual benefit - the real reason for capitalism - they're about exploitation, and they'll do it to anyone and everyone they can as long as they can get away with it.

blastonico
Then, unfortunately, the CS job market is very restricted for you. At the very end, the parts of the computer you are using were produced in a third world country with employees working under very bad/sad conditions.
MrWiffles
That's a pretty narrow minded view, considering I didn't pay that factory, I paid Apple. Or Dell. Or whomever. I have zero control with my vote as an American relating to working conditions in India, China, Malaysia, Pakistan or the like, and I refuse to be held morally accountable for something entirely beyond my control, especially when it's not even theoretically possible whatsoever. But I can at least vote in the US for whatever candidate(s) seem most likely to affect positive labor market changes, and hopefully those candidates will be able to leverage their office for geopolitical influence in a positive direction, ultimately contributing to positive changes in that country at some point in the future. That is at least theoretically possible, unlike your flawed notion that I have to reject all technology entirely because it was sold by people who abused vulnerable populations to create it, even though I have absolutely no control whatsoever even in theory over that.

Besides, you ever bought computer part, chip, etc. that was made entirely ethically in a first-world country paying good wages to skilled labor with rights, benefits, pensions, healthcare and so on, where the company and all its officers were entirely free of moral flaws? No you haven't, you know why? Because there aren't any and there never have been.

So compounding your error in logic here is the inescapable fact that no alternatives exist, which just further demonstrates the impotence of your combative argument and intent.

throwntoday
I interviewed with them recently and one guy showed up late, didn't even have my info pulled up and was kind of a prick. Another lady kept interrupting me while I was writing my code to have me explain, even though I was talking her through it as I was writing every line. I had to explain a for loop to her. No offense to foreigners but Amazon should at least have people with a grasp on the english language conduct the interviews.
mindcrime
They've called me numerous times over the years, and so far I've declined to ever pursue anything with them. By and large I'd say the answer is "no".

But I'll hedge just a little and say "never say never." If I were unemployed and destitute and desperate for any job in order to pay the rent and buy food, I'd probably do it. But that's a pretty extreme case...

TheDudeMan
I did, and it was the best job I had.
WFHRenaissance
No. I prefer to be treated like a human rather than a number. Some people thrive on gaming metrics, but not me!
lwansbrough
Absolutely not. And I’ve asked them repeatedly to stop contacting me. So every time they contact me my price goes up $100,000. They don’t seem too interested in hiring me when I tell them the current price as a result of the recruiter harassment.
lacker
It just depends what your options are. If you are a hot shot who can get a job anywhere, hey it's probably not the best, it would probably be nicer to work somewhere with a bit better of a reputation like Stripe.

If your alternatives are working for companies that nobody has ever heard of making less money than Amazon would pay, then yeah I'd jump at the opportunity to work for Amazon. You'll learn a lot and improve your resume, even if it doesn't end up being a long-term fit for you.

goshx
Yes, but I got a contact through linkedin for a position asking if I'd be interested. I responded saying I'd like to learn more and the recruiter disappeared. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
supergeek133
A number of years back I would have considered it, but my current company does lots of business with Amazon on the software side (Alexa Integrations, etc).

The amount I see their people having to work, and even how their leadership treats them (with me present) makes me never want to work there.

I have friends who are total workaholics, and they love it there.

If you love to work to live, skip it. If you love to live to work, you'll probably succeed.

Apreche
In all realistic circumstances I refuse to work for any company that doesn't meet my high moral standards. That's most companies, Amazon definitely included.

However, there is one (unrealistic) circumstance in which I would accept a job at even the worst company. That is the scenario in which I am hired into a position that comes with enough decision making power to undo the evil.

TL;DR: I will work for Amazon if they're making me the CEO.

jareklupinski
Yes.

I feel that, once there, I could make a meaningful change to improve the culture, while maintaining the share price trajectory.

If only recruiters / hiring managers liked hearing that :)

danpalmer
Setting aside moral judgements, and do decide based on that if you like (I would), there's another way to decide.

Look at the culture. Yes there is bad press about work-life balance issues and bad management, but you'll find that at some extent in any large company. Go deeper and look at the values.

Amazon is quite public about their values system, and there's lots more from current and former employees. Read about their values and how they put them into practice. For all the criticism I have for Amazon, they do have a strong culture, and that's both impressive at their and likely very beneficial.

If you fit their values (and don't mind the morals) then you'll fit in well, even if it's hard work. If you don't fit with their values, you'll hate it. Thankfully they are strong and clear enough about their values that figuring this out in advance is pretty easy.

TigeriusKirk
No, but only because I have an intense dislike for working in large organizations.

I don't see them as substantially different from any other FAANG level company though.

Aperocky
It seems everyone who did not work at Amazon "knows" every detail about what it's like to work in Amazon.