This seems more luck than anything else, right? It's just a function of how long it takes the software to determine which phones to alert, and it's more or less random whether or not someone will go home during that interim period before they get notified.
I actually don’t think this is particularly salient to my point. Whatever mechanism Apple has chosen, and whatever degree of luck Apple is relying on, that mechanism did not work in time to protect this person’s home location from being disclosed.
> If you’re curious to find who’s the owner of the AirTag that you have in hand, you can use your iPhone to view this information. Don’t have an iPhone? You can still use your NFC-enabled smartphone to see contact details.
> You’ll only be able to view all this information if the owner turns on Lost Mode for the AirTag. Also, you can only see the contact information that they chose to share with you while putting it in Lost Mode.
Seems like Apple should be easily able to identify the original owner of the AirTag. Do they do this if the police request this [or substitute whatever lawful mechanism]? I assume this kind of tracking activity is criminal but am not sure.
Part of the innovative FindMy protocol so widely discussed here a while ago is that no other party can identify the owner of the device except the owner – or those with whom the owner shared the device location.
EDIT: Well, as others pointed out, indeed having physical access to a device changes things. The serial number is rather tied to an iCloud account, so Apple, if subpoenaed, should be able to identify its owner (but not their location).
> If you’re curious to find who’s the owner of the AirTag that you have in hand, you can use your iPhone to view this information. Don’t have an iPhone? You can still use your NFC-enabled smartphone to see contact details.
While the protocol may not expose it, the device itself could have a serial number that might be associated with a specific user? EDIT: that seems to be exactly the case, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29277376
That doesn't mean Apple knows who the owner is. In that case, the owner of the device is anonymously notified. So with the situation in speech, you'd notify the criminal that you found their device, probably the last thing you'd want to do in this situation.
That having said, the serial number is rather tied to an iCloud account, so Apple should be able to identify its owner (but not their location).
Is there a serial number printed on the device? Presumably Apple has a database that ties the serial number to an iCloud account and if the police had physical access to the device they could subpoena that data.
Apple suggests that they can assist law enforcement if you have the serial number:
> To disable the AirTag and stop sharing your location, tap Instructions to Disable AirTag and follow the onscreen steps. If you feel your safety is at risk, contact your local law enforcement who can work with Apple. You might need to provide the AirTag or its serial number.
I’m glad they added the counter measures, but I largely think the concerns around AirTags are ignoring that hiding a tracker on a vehicle is not in any way a new novel concept. It’s trivial to buy a device to do this and hide it on a car, and they are purposefully designed to not be found. AirTags are probably one of the worst ways to accomplish this type of illicit behaviour
No, but the AirTag will beep incessantly and loudly if it detects that it is moving without the owner nearby, as somebody who borrowed my backpack informed me.
By an AirTag? Obviously not, but it also won't disclose your own location to an AirTag owner unless someone with an iPhone is near you. I have an Android phone and keep a Tile tracker in my wallet and on my keys, the number of Tile users is much lower than the number of iPhone users, but it can do the same. You'd have to know I was a Tile user, though, to get your own Tile to track me, but if you did, it would not alert me regardless of whether I used an iPhone or an Android device.
Will an iPhone alert you if you're being tracked by a Tracki/Tive/Lightbug GPS+cellular tracker? These are common in commercial shipping, but easily accessible for consumers too Here's [1] for $16 (requires $20/mo monthly fee) and [2] is a bring-your-own-SIM off-brand device for $20. Or, heck, they could just get an actual Android phone (either just an old one they have in an electronics drawer, or they could buy a used low-end model for $50), plug it into a 12V charger in the trunk, and set up location sharing.
To be clear, I think Apple made a reasonable effort to do the right thing here. The difference between Tile and AirTags is that the AirTag has a scale factor and pervasiveness that enables 'crimes of opportunity'. It's infeasible to prevent determined criminals: if you have to plan purchasing it, and signing up for the subscription with your personal details, and wait for the shipment, and install it, most people will think twice before following through with that whole sequence. On the other hand, if coworker A is preparing a laptop bag for coworker B to take home, and is fidgeting with the AirTag on their keychain while they do it, their impulse control might not be sufficient to prevent them from slipping in the tracker that they already have on their person.
The case of some Android user that mostly drives alone, but drives by other cars with iPhone users, should be pretty common. You could stalk them, and they wouldn't get a notice.
iPhones are unusually popular in English speaking countries. Globally it's more like 75% Android, 25% iPhone, with some places being 95% Android.
But really the important question is if your target notices the stalking, and for that they either need an iPhone or travel with someone with an iPhone.
Or use a Tile, which is the same thing and has been in use for years without anybody complaining about the stalking.
The main difference between the Tile and the AirTag is that the AirTag network automatically includes every iPhone and is therefore much larger than the Tile, despite being newer. Apple anticipated the stalking and included the anti-stalking feature. Tile has not implemented anything like that.
I do believe Apple at least needs to make the anti-stalking detection available for Android. At core it's just Bluetooth. I suspect they always intended to, after they'd gotten the maximum of "I need an iPhone just for this" sales out of it. Once they've passed that, they might as well expand their AirTag reach (and network) to Android users.
It's nice of Apple to have iPhones alert you in cases like this, but it's a major issue that there's no easy way for an Android user to get the same notification.
I don't understand this. Of course there's a point -- if there's an AirTag following me around, I'd like to know. Having an Android app just for that would be really useful (and not so hard to build.)
What about people who don’t have smartphones or people with old smart phone OSes like Symbian? Doesn’t seem feasible to maintain a dozen apps like WhatsApp used to have. Maybe still has? Across many platforms.
> What about people who don’t have smartphones or people with old smart phone OSes like Symbian? Doesn’t seem feasible to maintain a dozen apps like WhatsApp used to have.
Well, if you're a company that manufactures a product that can be used for spying on people, and you want to make clear that the intended use isn't for spying on people, then I guess you need to ask how badly you want to make clear that it's not a technology for spying on people.
In the case if your specific questions, if you don't have a phone with BTLE, then your phone probably can't detect it.
Before AirTags these devices were somewhat obscure, and without the ability to have their location broadcast by a network of smartphones either a lot bulkier or a lot less capable. Apple widely advertised theirs, turning them from something you see in Breaking Bad to something you buy in the mall. I think it's completely fair to single Apple out here.
Wouldn’t this logic extend? So a person who wants to track you because they heard about this has a good chance of hearing of the beeping and alerts. So then they get a different tracker that doesn’t alert you.
Wow, I did not think of that. Owning an iPhone is the only way for Apple to alert you that you’re being tracked.
The solution is correct, inform a user that they’re being followed by an AirTag. But if the platform isn’t opened you risk having to install half a dusin app from different tracking devices, to be informed that you’re being followed.
I think Apple needs be forced to open their AirTag platform to non-Apple users, at least for the tracking notifications. I don't have an Apple phone, nor I plan to get one, and this is plainly creepy.
I had a gut negative reaction to this comment (the government comment is irrelevant).
But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag?
I guess the only thing special about the airtag is it's (slightly) cheaper than a cheap smartphone, longer battery life, and explicitly marketed for the purpose of tracking things. Even if a cheap prepaid smartphone can accomplish the same thing while going completed undetected.
As of the latest iPhone release, "Find my iphone" still works even when you power the iphone off (there's a warning that says this when you attempt to shut down your iphone). I wonder how long an iPhone will hold its charge while powered off.
> But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag?
When I was younger I had a friend who worked in a cellular phone store (back when most people went to a physical store to buy cell phones).
He very frequently got customers asking for another phone to do exactly this. It was a common problem for their commission structure because the cheap phones used for tracking people (usually spouses suspected of cheating) were often returned within 30 days and their data plan cancelled, which was a net negative for their sales stats and commission structure.
Some common standard will need to be developed for compatibility, but I really don't like the use of "mesh" networking for this as it leaves your device vulnerable and susceptible to hacking. The Android app idea is not ideal too:
- An Android app will make the "AirTag network" even more pervasive, with even Android phones doing the tracking for Apple.
- What happens when there are such "tags" all around you? How many false alerts will it take before users start ignoring it?
It's wishful thinking to believe that we'll be able to prevent anyone from tracking our car's movements. It's just too easy; even without devices like AirTags.
GPS trackers cost like $50 and are smaller than a cell phone (thicker though because they usually have a big battery/lots of batteries). They're weather/waterproof for the most part and have strong magnets to attach to the underside of a car where no normal person would ever look. They usually come with hard-wire options as well so you can tie into a car's 12V system (depending on the car this is either trivial/fast with a vampire tap or a time consuming activity).
These devices can't be easily detected from a cell phone; it's easier to physically look for them than to try to capture their wireless emissions (unless you have special equipment). Some of them just record their locations over time and don't even emit anything at all but there's probably some that can communicate these logs via Bluetooth but I'm not sure how common that is.
Using an AirTag to track someone's car is basically ridiculously lazy and risky... Too easy for the target to notice IMHO.
For reference, most of the folks on HN could probably make their own GPS tracker with their microcontroller of choice and a ~$5 GPS breakout. Could even get super fancy to have it transmit coordinates via LoRa and whatnot. You could even 3D print an enclosure for it that precisely matches the contours of the underside of a (specific) car so that it wouldn't be found unless you were super duper familiar with what the underside of your car looked like.
AirTags are cheap, easy to acquire (the user may already own some), and come with a shiny app already integrated into a stalker or abuser's iPhone. They may not be as good as the real thing, but that won't stop them increasing the amount of tracking going on.
The tag will eventually start beeping, but I agree it'd be ideal for the phone to get an alert too. Not sure how you'd do that though, maybe a 'tracking device standard'?
"The company also announced that it was working on an app for Android users that would send them alerts about unwanted tracking devices similar to those iPhone users receive. The Android app is set to launch later this year."
Apple may not hit the end of 2021, and they don't get full credit until they release the app, but they're aware of the issue and have stated they are working on a solution.
> but they're aware of the issue and have stated they are working on a solution
I'd rather they work with Google to get those notifications automatically, rather than requiring someone to be aware of AirTags, and download an app, in order to be notified. Perhaps they can work with carriers to get the app pre-loaded?
It's not like Apple are the only company in the world manufacturing tracking devices. In fact with most tracking systems their entire MO is to NOT alert the person you're tracking to their existence.
It sounds like that Android app is only going to be useful to detect being tracked yourself, but not allow Android users to track their own tags?
Hah. Imagine the reaction in this community if the parties were reversed: Google released a creepy device that can track an individual's location, and iPhone users had to install and continuously run a Google app just to defend themselves.
"Sexton said tracking someone and their location without their permission is criminal and with the holidays approaching more crimes like this are starting to appear."
I assume I'm just missing something obvious, but why is tracking someone without permission happening more now that the holidays are approaching? I can't come up with anything that seems likely.
Interesting, seems like that fear would push people in those tax brackets to not leave their gates communities and just shop online, instead of exposing themselves to that sort of threat.
It makes sense if the person who put the tracker there was someone who knew the woman and wanted to scare her (which it seems they succeeded in as she didn't give her name in the article for fear of her safety). My guess would be an abusive ex that wanted her to know they were watching her.
I can think of two possibilities: domestic abuse and murder rates tend to spike around the holidays for whatever reason, so tracking/stalking goes along with that. Or it's just that the tech to do the tracking is on sale.
I guess it depends on where you live, but it's usual to visit family and friends who live somewhat far away to celebrate the holidays with them. If you know where the family car is in the holidays, then you know where the family is in the holidays, and if that's more than 300km away you can properly rob their house.
Feels like a correlation / causation error - global mobility is really only just getting back to normal and these methods of 'attack' are on their way from zero 6 months ago.
Apple needs to be held accountable for this, it's the only way to stop stuff like this happening. She'd never have know were she an android user. How many people has this happened to without their knowledge?
So you want to congratulate them for this I assume? As that would be the "consequence" of this event should we hold them "accountable" for the outcome.
Apple are making it extremely easy for anyone to track you without your knowledge. If you're then the victim of a crime due to that as far as I'm concerned apple is complicit.
I can see this harming victims of domestic violence.
There are many other tracking devices available. This is the only one that notifies the target. If one of those other devices had been used then this lady would have never known she was being tracked.
> There's tons of trackers that can use any nearby iPhone
If you're limiting the conversation to "any iPhone" then there's a few, such as the Chipolo One, which also use Apple's network. However, Samsung has a competing network which uses any nearby Samsung phone (also a popular brand, so I'm told) and Tile has a network which uses any phone that has the Tile app installed. None of these need GPS to work, though their networks will probably be smaller than Apple's in most US cities.
> How? There's tons of these tracker products out there. Are we going to make the entire category illegal?
Statutory damages executed against company executives.
This is quite literally the solution for every singe "corporations no longer fear anything" argument. Execute against execs. They are the ones who would be balancing their multimillion-billion dollar rewards against either criminal or civil penalties.
If Apple's ( the company ) fuckups could make Mr Cook spend a weekend in Rikers next to a guy who beat up his gay roommate into pulp over $10, Apple won't ever fuck up as Mr. Cook would have all the needed motivations not to allow for it to happen.
You want to send Tim Cook to Rikers because Apple make a legal product (which competes against other offerings by Tile and Samsung), someone used it illegally, and the victim found out thanks to countermeasures Apple voluntarily included in the - again, legal - product?
I agree that we need to improve corporate accountability, but that's a bit extreme.
The only way to counter-balance corporate lack of accountability to to change the laws to ensure that if the corporations behave badly their executives go to prison.
Uber stonewalls investigations into their drivers raping customers? Dara gets dragged out of his fancy dinner into the nastiest prison we have while the case makes it through the courts. If it takes 5 years, he gets to spend those 3 years eating cheese and ham.
Apple? Cook goes it.
Google? Sundar.
Facebook? Mark.
That will immediately fix "corporate culture" as the executives will be incentivized to ensure their organization behave. This does not affect the shareholders and shareholder protection rather it should affect officers and directors of the company.
I think you missed my point. I'm saying that holding Tim Cook accountable for this case is like sending the CEO of the Clorox Company to jail because someone put bleach in their girlfriend's drink.
It's a legitimate product with legitimate uses and a lot of competitors. If you punish the CEO of the manufacturer every time someone uses their product in a crime you'll get every Fortune 500 executive in like a week.
> I think you missed my point. I'm saying that holding Tim Cook accountable for this case is like sending the CEO of the Clorox Company to jail because someone put bleach in their girlfriend's drink.
No, not at all. If Apple/Google/Facebook/Clorox "agree to pay a fine to settle a case" then the officers and directors of the company go to prison, not because they are sharedholders of the company - but because they are officers or directors of the company.
So if for whatever reason, Apple agrees to pay a fine and change practices or whatever else regarding AirTags, then Cook should go to jail, not because Cook is a shareholder of Apple but because he is the CEO of Apple.
If Uber agrees to settle, pay a fine/change practices, then Dara should go to jail, not because he is a shareholder of Uber but because he is a CEO of Uber.
If Clorox company agrees to pay a fine/change practices, then the CEO of Cholorox should go to jail, not because he is a shareholder of Clorox but because he is the CEO.
Could you please do 5 seconds of Googling before saying stuff like this in public?
The fact is that an AirTag will start beeping after 8-24 hours if separated from its owner. So no, it's just plainly false that an Android user "would have never known". Plainly, and obviously false.
How often does it beep after being separated? I don't own one but I've read comments saying may be every few hours, or only on movement. Apple's site doesn't have those details. Where did you find your information?
Completely besides and ignoring the point. 8 hours is ample time to find you house and either Rob it or in the case of a domestic victim something more sinister.
I do not own an Apple phone. Does the app to track or report on AirTags automagically get installed?
If not, how did she detect it?
Asking because in the article "At the time, she did not even know what an Air Tag was until she received a notification that she was being tracked." this implies that she did not use, therefore did not need the Air Tag app, so then how did she detect it?
> If you see this message on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch running iOS or iPadOS 14.5 or later, an AirTag that has been separated from the person who registered it is traveling with you, and the owner might be able to see its location. It's possible that the AirTag might be attached to an item you're borrowing.
Apple put anti-tracking measures in place which will alert any iPhone owner if they have an unknown AirTag nearby that seems to be following their location. The AirTag connects to the Find My network (via Bluetooth) which allows it to broadcast its location anonymously via any nearby iPhone owner.
Airtag technology should be illegal. The woman was being tracked BY HER OWN IPHONE. Remember it is the iphone providing the geolocation and the internet connection.
The airtag technology uses peoples iphones without authorization as part of the airtag mesh.
It should be illegal even though she got a warning almost immediately, and even though she would have gotten a 2nd kind of warning almost immediately via the AirTag beeping constantly, even if she didn't have an iPhone?
Why? Seems to me there are plenty of privacy protections in place, here.
Yes, it should be - or rather mesh networking should be. Apple has deliberately enabled this by default, so that they can better spy on you (for example, now even if you turn off location services, Apple can still track you using other iPhone users near you - all this is deliberately designed to reduce our privacy.)
I threw myself at it. I now have an always running background app with battery optimization turned off and with location privileges that will drain my battery but I guess that's just the price Android users have to pay in order for iPhone users to enjoy their AirTagging.
There's mention below of a forthcoming Android app to alert people that they're being followed by AirTags, but no mention I saw of any protection for those who simply do not own a smartphone. The thought that people who likely have chosen to purposely opt out entirely from the always-connected ecosystem are now subject to unwanted tracking with no way to opt out or even be informed is frankly despicable.
If we go along with the idea that gun makers are at least partly responsible for school shootings*, then let’s make Apple at least partly responsible for stalkers using their products to stalk. Let them figure out the rest, including solutions for people without any electronics.
Maybe they need to give everyone on request a device to detect them, but even then you have to know what Airtags are and know to (and how to) request this device, so it’s still an imperfect solution.
Maybe they ought to do a background check and have Airtags registered to your name, that you’re legally responsible for. This sounds crazy now, but it may be the discussion society is having in 10 or 20 years.
At the least, they shouldn’t release an app to detect these. They should release a white paper so everyone can have their own implementation of Airtag detection.
As for me, I’m fully prepared to see my ass bearing down on a toilet as I’m about to take a shit in a toilet paper advertisement. We need strong privacy laws. Technology has upended everyday life and there’s very little room left for you to not be monitored by stalkers^W marketers^W the rest of the world.
* I’m not saying this is a good idea, but it looks like Remington might legally bear some liability for Sandy Hook.
That seems a little extreme. Companies in general are not responsible for how people use their products. If I buy a kitchen knife at the grocery store, why should KitchenAid be responsible if I kill someone with it? Carmakers aren't responsible when someone runs over pedestrians.
As for registration, they already are registered to the owner's Apple account. That's how the owner is able to track it and know if it's been found.
> An AirTag that isn't with the person who registered it for an extended period of time will also play a sound when moved so you can find it, even if you don’t use an iOS device.
This isn’t new or unique to AirTags. You can buy a GPS tracker on Amazon for a few dollars, and short of tearing your car apart you’d have absolutely no way of finding it. Frankly I think apple has put far more effort into safeguarding their product from malicious use than any of the readily available competitors.
It would seem best for Apple, Google, et al to collaborate on universal tracking detectors, similar to universal hidden camera detectors: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AFjGQNaqmXA
They have a speaker that plays a sound randomly every few hours when it hasn't been near the owner's device in a while. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
This seems more like a jealous spouse or something. A real sinister third party whose intent was to rob her could use something more discreet than a consumer friendly device that is explicitly made to try and prevent this kind of bad press.
As the protocol is already reverse engineered you can actually just DIY a tracker even more unnoticeable than Airtags that generates new keys periodically to trick the Iphones into thinking it's a new Airtag that never saw before.
Weirdly I had the notification about an airtag found moving with me a few days ago.
I know the airtag is there or at least I know of one thats there! For some reason it's not on my "find my" under the family account. Also I've never had the notification come up when my partner is around only when I was on my own.
When airtag was initially released, it only beeps after the airtag left the owner for 3 days, later Apple updated it to the following.
It beeps after the thief gets to somewhere that thief frequently stays with, such as home, school, office etc.. I found this out with my kid as there is no difference between thief took your item, or stalking someone, as oppose to tracking a family member who's aware of it. It functions the same way. In the case of tracking a family member or a friend, it beeps in kid's classroom or office which is quite annoying even though the person tracked is fully aware of the tracking.
With a simple update, I'd hop Apple allows a family member or who's aware of the tracking but not the owner of the airtag be able to tap the "Moving with you.." message and acknowledge it so the warning message and aritag beeping doesn't continue yet not disabling the tracking (it currently allows to disable the tracking). Not sure why Apple hasn't thought about it or didn't want to do that, as Apple PR insisted that airtag is for tracking items not human but many have found airtag used in tracking human (e.g. family, friend) for safety reason more convenient and cheaper than an Apple watch.
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[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 80.9 ms ] threadOn the other, it sounds like the alert was not timely enough to allow her to prevent the AirTag from disclosing her home location.
> If you’re curious to find who’s the owner of the AirTag that you have in hand, you can use your iPhone to view this information. Don’t have an iPhone? You can still use your NFC-enabled smartphone to see contact details.
EDIT: Well, as others pointed out, indeed having physical access to a device changes things. The serial number is rather tied to an iCloud account, so Apple, if subpoenaed, should be able to identify its owner (but not their location).
https://osxdaily.com/2021/07/08/found-lost-airtag-find-owner...
I think people are mixing identifying the owner from the tracking beacon communications and identifying it from the physical device / serial number.
That having said, the serial number is rather tied to an iCloud account, so Apple should be able to identify its owner (but not their location).
> To disable the AirTag and stop sharing your location, tap Instructions to Disable AirTag and follow the onscreen steps. If you feel your safety is at risk, contact your local law enforcement who can work with Apple. You might need to provide the AirTag or its serial number.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
Reality disappoints.
If there are no iphones nearby, the airtag doesn't work.
Will an iPhone alert you if you're being tracked by a Tracki/Tive/Lightbug GPS+cellular tracker? These are common in commercial shipping, but easily accessible for consumers too Here's [1] for $16 (requires $20/mo monthly fee) and [2] is a bring-your-own-SIM off-brand device for $20. Or, heck, they could just get an actual Android phone (either just an old one they have in an electronics drawer, or they could buy a used low-end model for $50), plug it into a 12V charger in the trunk, and set up location sharing.
To be clear, I think Apple made a reasonable effort to do the right thing here. The difference between Tile and AirTags is that the AirTag has a scale factor and pervasiveness that enables 'crimes of opportunity'. It's infeasible to prevent determined criminals: if you have to plan purchasing it, and signing up for the subscription with your personal details, and wait for the shipment, and install it, most people will think twice before following through with that whole sequence. On the other hand, if coworker A is preparing a laptop bag for coworker B to take home, and is fidgeting with the AirTag on their keychain while they do it, their impulse control might not be sufficient to prevent them from slipping in the tracker that they already have on their person.
[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Tracki/dp/B07N4DHFZM
[2]: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Tracker/dp/B09DX9CNCJ
But really the important question is if your target notices the stalking, and for that they either need an iPhone or travel with someone with an iPhone.
The main difference between the Tile and the AirTag is that the AirTag network automatically includes every iPhone and is therefore much larger than the Tile, despite being newer. Apple anticipated the stalking and included the anti-stalking feature. Tile has not implemented anything like that.
I do believe Apple at least needs to make the anti-stalking detection available for Android. At core it's just Bluetooth. I suspect they always intended to, after they'd gotten the maximum of "I need an iPhone just for this" sales out of it. Once they've passed that, they might as well expand their AirTag reach (and network) to Android users.
Does each manufacturer of those also owe you an Android app?
Yeah, probably.
Well, if you're a company that manufactures a product that can be used for spying on people, and you want to make clear that the intended use isn't for spying on people, then I guess you need to ask how badly you want to make clear that it's not a technology for spying on people.
In the case if your specific questions, if you don't have a phone with BTLE, then your phone probably can't detect it.
If you are an Android user, and I put an AirTag on you, your phone won't report the location on the tag.
But every apple product that gets close to you will report your location.
The solution is correct, inform a user that they’re being followed by an AirTag. But if the platform isn’t opened you risk having to install half a dusin app from different tracking devices, to be informed that you’re being followed.
Doesn’t it also beep?
How hard is it to snip the speaker leads, or damage the speaker in some other way so that it produces no sound?
But to play devil's advocate, can't someone buy any cheap old iPhone (or any smartphone), activate it with a cheap prepaid plan, and use the phone itself as a tracking device instead of an airtag?
I guess the only thing special about the airtag is it's (slightly) cheaper than a cheap smartphone, longer battery life, and explicitly marketed for the purpose of tracking things. Even if a cheap prepaid smartphone can accomplish the same thing while going completed undetected.
When I was younger I had a friend who worked in a cellular phone store (back when most people went to a physical store to buy cell phones).
He very frequently got customers asking for another phone to do exactly this. It was a common problem for their commission structure because the cheap phones used for tracking people (usually spouses suspected of cheating) were often returned within 30 days and their data plan cancelled, which was a net negative for their sales stats and commission structure.
- An Android app will make the "AirTag network" even more pervasive, with even Android phones doing the tracking for Apple.
- What happens when there are such "tags" all around you? How many false alerts will it take before users start ignoring it?
GPS trackers cost like $50 and are smaller than a cell phone (thicker though because they usually have a big battery/lots of batteries). They're weather/waterproof for the most part and have strong magnets to attach to the underside of a car where no normal person would ever look. They usually come with hard-wire options as well so you can tie into a car's 12V system (depending on the car this is either trivial/fast with a vampire tap or a time consuming activity).
These devices can't be easily detected from a cell phone; it's easier to physically look for them than to try to capture their wireless emissions (unless you have special equipment). Some of them just record their locations over time and don't even emit anything at all but there's probably some that can communicate these logs via Bluetooth but I'm not sure how common that is.
Using an AirTag to track someone's car is basically ridiculously lazy and risky... Too easy for the target to notice IMHO.
For reference, most of the folks on HN could probably make their own GPS tracker with their microcontroller of choice and a ~$5 GPS breakout. Could even get super fancy to have it transmit coordinates via LoRa and whatnot. You could even 3D print an enclosure for it that precisely matches the contours of the underside of a (specific) car so that it wouldn't be found unless you were super duper familiar with what the underside of your car looked like.
Another evil reason to buy an iphone!
"The company also announced that it was working on an app for Android users that would send them alerts about unwanted tracking devices similar to those iPhone users receive. The Android app is set to launch later this year."
Apple may not hit the end of 2021, and they don't get full credit until they release the app, but they're aware of the issue and have stated they are working on a solution.
I'd rather they work with Google to get those notifications automatically, rather than requiring someone to be aware of AirTags, and download an app, in order to be notified. Perhaps they can work with carriers to get the app pre-loaded?
It's not like Apple are the only company in the world manufacturing tracking devices. In fact with most tracking systems their entire MO is to NOT alert the person you're tracking to their existence.
Hah. Imagine the reaction in this community if the parties were reversed: Google released a creepy device that can track an individual's location, and iPhone users had to install and continuously run a Google app just to defend themselves.
I assume I'm just missing something obvious, but why is tracking someone without permission happening more now that the holidays are approaching? I can't come up with anything that seems likely.
I suspect the lady had one of the nicer cars in the parking lot.
That being said, the story itself is fishy. Why would someone duct tape one of these in plain sight?
Checked in at the Business Class Lounge - On way to Cancun (Back in a Week!!)
So you want to congratulate them for this I assume? As that would be the "consequence" of this event should we hold them "accountable" for the outcome.
Apple are making it extremely easy for anyone to track you without your knowledge. If you're then the victim of a crime due to that as far as I'm concerned apple is complicit.
I can see this harming victims of domestic violence.
How? There's tons of these tracker products out there. Are we going to make the entire category illegal?
If you're limiting the conversation to "any iPhone" then there's a few, such as the Chipolo One, which also use Apple's network. However, Samsung has a competing network which uses any nearby Samsung phone (also a popular brand, so I'm told) and Tile has a network which uses any phone that has the Tile app installed. None of these need GPS to work, though their networks will probably be smaller than Apple's in most US cities.
Statutory damages executed against company executives.
This is quite literally the solution for every singe "corporations no longer fear anything" argument. Execute against execs. They are the ones who would be balancing their multimillion-billion dollar rewards against either criminal or civil penalties.
If Apple's ( the company ) fuckups could make Mr Cook spend a weekend in Rikers next to a guy who beat up his gay roommate into pulp over $10, Apple won't ever fuck up as Mr. Cook would have all the needed motivations not to allow for it to happen.
I agree that we need to improve corporate accountability, but that's a bit extreme.
Uber stonewalls investigations into their drivers raping customers? Dara gets dragged out of his fancy dinner into the nastiest prison we have while the case makes it through the courts. If it takes 5 years, he gets to spend those 3 years eating cheese and ham.
Apple? Cook goes it.
Google? Sundar.
Facebook? Mark.
That will immediately fix "corporate culture" as the executives will be incentivized to ensure their organization behave. This does not affect the shareholders and shareholder protection rather it should affect officers and directors of the company.
It's a legitimate product with legitimate uses and a lot of competitors. If you punish the CEO of the manufacturer every time someone uses their product in a crime you'll get every Fortune 500 executive in like a week.
No, not at all. If Apple/Google/Facebook/Clorox "agree to pay a fine to settle a case" then the officers and directors of the company go to prison, not because they are sharedholders of the company - but because they are officers or directors of the company.
So if for whatever reason, Apple agrees to pay a fine and change practices or whatever else regarding AirTags, then Cook should go to jail, not because Cook is a shareholder of Apple but because he is the CEO of Apple.
If Uber agrees to settle, pay a fine/change practices, then Dara should go to jail, not because he is a shareholder of Uber but because he is a CEO of Uber.
If Clorox company agrees to pay a fine/change practices, then the CEO of Cholorox should go to jail, not because he is a shareholder of Clorox but because he is the CEO.
The fact is that an AirTag will start beeping after 8-24 hours if separated from its owner. So no, it's just plainly false that an Android user "would have never known". Plainly, and obviously false.
If not, how did she detect it?
Asking because in the article "At the time, she did not even know what an Air Tag was until she received a notification that she was being tracked." this implies that she did not use, therefore did not need the Air Tag app, so then how did she detect it?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
> If you see this message on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch running iOS or iPadOS 14.5 or later, an AirTag that has been separated from the person who registered it is traveling with you, and the owner might be able to see its location. It's possible that the AirTag might be attached to an item you're borrowing.
The airtag technology uses peoples iphones without authorization as part of the airtag mesh.
Why? Seems to me there are plenty of privacy protections in place, here.
Yes, it should be - or rather mesh networking should be. Apple has deliberately enabled this by default, so that they can better spy on you (for example, now even if you turn off location services, Apple can still track you using other iPhone users near you - all this is deliberately designed to reduce our privacy.)
Ironic, since IIRC Apple phones were the very first to follow people's locations without their permission.
Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.seemoo.at_t... F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/packages/de.seemoo.at_tracking_detection... Source code: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard
Maybe they need to give everyone on request a device to detect them, but even then you have to know what Airtags are and know to (and how to) request this device, so it’s still an imperfect solution.
Maybe they ought to do a background check and have Airtags registered to your name, that you’re legally responsible for. This sounds crazy now, but it may be the discussion society is having in 10 or 20 years.
At the least, they shouldn’t release an app to detect these. They should release a white paper so everyone can have their own implementation of Airtag detection.
As for me, I’m fully prepared to see my ass bearing down on a toilet as I’m about to take a shit in a toilet paper advertisement. We need strong privacy laws. Technology has upended everyday life and there’s very little room left for you to not be monitored by stalkers^W marketers^W the rest of the world.
* I’m not saying this is a good idea, but it looks like Remington might legally bear some liability for Sandy Hook.
As for registration, they already are registered to the owner's Apple account. That's how the owner is able to track it and know if it's been found.
> An AirTag that isn't with the person who registered it for an extended period of time will also play a sound when moved so you can find it, even if you don’t use an iOS device.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212227
* edit - It appears that may be in the works: https://gizmodo.com/apple-lets-you-scan-for-evil-airtags-tha...
Also. This is mostly PR for Apple. If someone puts any other tracker on me. I’ll never be notified.
As the protocol is already reverse engineered you can actually just DIY a tracker even more unnoticeable than Airtags that generates new keys periodically to trick the Iphones into thinking it's a new Airtag that never saw before.
I know the airtag is there or at least I know of one thats there! For some reason it's not on my "find my" under the family account. Also I've never had the notification come up when my partner is around only when I was on my own.
It beeps after the thief gets to somewhere that thief frequently stays with, such as home, school, office etc.. I found this out with my kid as there is no difference between thief took your item, or stalking someone, as oppose to tracking a family member who's aware of it. It functions the same way. In the case of tracking a family member or a friend, it beeps in kid's classroom or office which is quite annoying even though the person tracked is fully aware of the tracking.
With a simple update, I'd hop Apple allows a family member or who's aware of the tracking but not the owner of the airtag be able to tap the "Moving with you.." message and acknowledge it so the warning message and aritag beeping doesn't continue yet not disabling the tracking (it currently allows to disable the tracking). Not sure why Apple hasn't thought about it or didn't want to do that, as Apple PR insisted that airtag is for tracking items not human but many have found airtag used in tracking human (e.g. family, friend) for safety reason more convenient and cheaper than an Apple watch.