Ask HN: Why there are no Android mini phones?
Although there are countless Android phone makers, there isn't a single one of them that makes compact phones. Sony was in the business for a while but it seems to lower the supply of the new models and mark them with super high prices.
That's very strange as there is clearly demand for smaller phones, shown by the iPhone mini. Apple offers an almost identical compact phone to it's regular model, but it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all.
If anyone has thoughts on it or a compact model to recommend I'll be glad to hear.
181 comments
[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 242 ms ] threadApple has always had a mini model, they just haven't named them as such. For example, the iPhone 8 (2017) and the iPhone 13 Mini (2021) are almost the same size (incidentally about the same size as the S10e from 2019). Phones before the 8 were smaller, and there have been several models of equivalent size (SE 1, SE 2, 12 Mini) in the intervening years.
I have the 2020 iPhone SE and 13 mini in my household, and the 13 mini is noticeably smaller when using it and preferable if you want a smaller phone.
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
I yearn for an iPhone 4 form factor:
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-4,Apple-...
According to Wikipedia, the iPhone mini is 131.5 mm tall and 64.2 mm wide. Using the "Phone Finder" on GSMArena, the closest phone dimension-wise, released in 2021, is the Alcatel 1 (137.6 x 65.7). Of course, it runs Android 11 Go because it only has 1GB of RAM. There are also a couple of Samsungs (A01 and M01 Core) at 141.7 x 67.5, but they only go up to 2GB and run Android 10 Go.
So it doesn't look like there are any "premium" Android phones that are close in size to the iPhone mini. Which is a shame.
The year is irrelevant when the performance crushes the other options.
that no longer receives updates
Pop LineageOS on it. Voila, security updates.
that you would likely struggle to repair if anything broke
What makes it more difficult than the other options, or smartphones in general?
Folded it is 86.4x72.2x17 mm.
I have to carry two phones for work and really like the second one to be small. Stuck it out with a 1st gen iPhone SE for a long time (headphone jack ftw), whereas the current gen SE is as big as a 6. Bah.
For what it’s worth I know several people that are extremely pleased with the mini, and that are far more likely to upgrade because of it.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/apple-ends-iphone-12-mi...
Personally I rather like the minis and hope they don’t kill it, though I’m afraid that I might be in a minority. But it appears they sell more than other companies flagships, so maybe the market for it is underrated.
I like to 1) be able to hold my phone and not touch the screen by a “thumb butt”, 2) reading something with its bottom side sitting on my belly, where shirt or blanket folds may cover the screen if it’s full-height. No borders is just a designer’s delusion to me. I have a friend with mini and after every other telegram message he tries to record an audio because the record button is exactly at the bottom right of the case when the keyboard is hidden. If Apple stops making SEs, I’ll have to search for a special border extending case.
It is very noticably bigger than the SE
About half way between iPhone 5 and iPhone 6. Or at least feels that way.
I actually had a 6s- though I gave it away.
But I still have the box and the iPhone 12 mini _does_ fit into the box, but it's exactly the same width as the 6s and approximately 3mm shorter. So it's still well into "iPhone 6" sizing territory, though it is smaller.
I also have a 5.
So I took some (awful) photos: https://imgur.com/a/wtDEyi8
(I had to use a really old android phone to take the photos, sadly)
[1] https://willmyphonework.net/ [2] https://www.frequencycheck.com/
I'm not claiming it's unknowable, I'm claiming it's often known to be terrible. Purism, PinePhone Pro, Fairphone, Sony Xperia, Nokia 8.3 One, and other desirable phones support maybe half of the bands I need!
My requirement is to be able to tap the top-left corner with one hand (for going back on iOS).
I prefer small phones (iPhone SE 2nd was the first ever iPhone I bought because of that reason) but mostly because it is more comfortable to keep in my pockets.
https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-gen-2
For myself, I love my iPhone 12 Mini, and will lament the loss, if the form factor is deprecated.
Looks like it'd be pretty thick when folded (certainly would lead to a pocket bulge). And folding screens still have to prove their longevity.
Seriously, this could be a great backup phone for traveling. I didn't know it existed... maybe they need more marketing?
Typing was not as bad as I thought it would be (it's still not great, just more usable than I expected).
I'm only 40 so can't speak to reading small text...
Biggest issue is having to scroll in almost all apps. Still love it, and my next phone will be a Jelly 3 assuming they make one.
Also, I won't lie, it's fun that my teenagers cringe every time I take out such a tiny phone
I was sorely tempted, but as I'm an inveterate web surfer, a conventional smartphone seemed a better choice.
It's a good phone. Not the lightest, but the screen is a comfortable size and it has the most important feature of a phone for me - a headphone jack.
It worked fine and did everything I needed it to do, other than stay powered all day.
How's the second gen battery wise?
Also did they put android 11/12 on it, and have they released the stuff necessary to have lineage support them?
When my pixel 4a breaks, I'd be tempted to switch back to a reasonably sized phone.
LineageOS works fine for me. I think I'm on Android 10, but maybe 11.
if they let the outside design stay the same but just bumping the internals (and weatherproofing, water killed my original SE), i would literally buy that every year just to support that kind of business
>shown by the iPhone mini.
If anything iPhone mini has shown the market for expensive, mini iPhone is rather small. iPhone SE are still selling well because it fits the market of both price and size conscious segment. Possibly Touch ID although we dont have any Data to back this.
Even in Japan, the market which typically prefer smaller size phones, iPhone Mini has not been making as much sales as many have hoped.
So the people who want smaller phone are also those generally dont care much about latest camera, screen, or tech. And these market also tends to be low margin. iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I guess that is part of the reason why supply chain sources are pointing to a iPhone 14 Max rather than iPhone 14 Mini. Personally I am waiting for the iPhone 13 Mini to drop in price. Or if possible updated iPhone SE with Touch ID on power button.
https://www.engadget.com/japanese-toaster-maker-balmuda-firs...
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
Initially when I moved to a FaceID phone I liked it for the fact that it would unlock itself without me having to take gloves off while biking. That was a time-saver. But now in 2021 with face masks the amount of situations where TouchID would have been more time-saving is a lot higher.
I feel they are complementary and both should be present so you can decide take my glove off or take my face coverings off.
I had an iPhone SE before my current 13 Mini and I really miss the TouchID (even after a few months).
Maybe, but Apple released the May 2020 iPhone SE 4 years after they released the previous SE, and without announcement, they released a Mini in September 2020. I would expect many people who had wanted a smaller phone to have jumped on the May 2020 SE, and then why would they get a Mini 6 months or even 18 months later?
> iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I would like to know what alternatives are available for cheaper that are the same quality as an iPhone SE.
Balmuda releases joke. Not considered to viable option for who prefer smaller phones.
"mode1 GRIP" is lower end but interesting mini (width) phone. Its width (56mm) is smaller than iPhone 13 mini (64mm). It's sold only in Japan but I believe base ODM model exists somewhere. https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/hothot/1360240.ht...
I love the phone and wouldn't want a larger form factor, but the lack of TouchID is seriously annoying.
According to the link you posted, it has a 4.9 inch display. How is that "small" by any means? The original iPhone screen was 3.5 inch.
I’ve an iPhone 12 mini. The body is only a tiny bit bigger than an iPhone 5, but the screen is basically the size of an iPhone 8.
But it is a great marketing tricks a lot of consumer thought the inch was shown as a unit of area. And that is ignoring the difference in aspect ratio.
You can, via the Watch app on the iPhone, though it’s not a great experience. Choose “Music” and then you can select albums or playlists to copy to the Watch.
It’s like syncing an iPod, except it’s only about a third as reliable and significantly slower.
I use a Galaxy S10e, which is a "flagship" compact phone from few years back, and it has been a great phone that I still use today, but even on the day I bought it, battery life has been much shorter than what I was used (an IP8) to I suspected I got a lemon...
I'm still using a Z3C with LineageOS. At some point it will kick the bucket. I barely use it save for phone calls, and minor conveniences (e.g. vaccination proof, tickets and such). Part of me thinks I should just bite the bullet, accept a larger screen, get a PinePhone, and find a way to start contributing. At least I'd get more software support 1 year out than from the Android manufacturers ;).
I wish others would make something decent, similar to iphone se.
Lots of people like me are dreaming for the day I can get a new nexus 5 and be able to type on the keyboard with one hand again.
Voting with your wallet only works if there are options, but now it seems that the market is more like most democracies - big soup with the same stuff, but slightly different colours.
https://cubot.net/Smartphones/king-kong-mini/8
Is it possible to screw a belt clip there? And I don't mean in a case, but physically attached to the back of the phone with screws?
Some Chinese work phones have that feature, and it's stupidly addictive to be able to clip your phone anywhere!
Battery life is pretty good; I charge it at night, and usually is half-battery. My usage is pretty decent, but mostly on wifi.
Seriously, there used to be decent Android phones fitting in a pocket but clearly the market seems to have sorted those out. It's one of the reasons I'm using an iPhone after having used Android phones all the time - can't stand precarious phablets. Missing Mobile FF with uBO, though it's not that much of a problem I thought it was given what little browsing I'm still doing, and Safari is working well enough to regain some privacy I guess.
Apple probably gets more value out of Android than anybody else since Android’s existence keeps Apple out of antitrust court.
Kind of an odd statement given Android's 3x worldwide install base. Unless you meant specifically for US consumers.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-sha...
I don't understand this statement, it seems very strange given that Android is by far the largest player in the market. If anything, the exact opposite is probably true, since Android is far closer to a monopoly than iOS. In reality, it is Android that is quite happy for Apple's existence and keeping them out of the antitrust court.
When it comes to "flagship phones" for instance it is a strange status game where presumably customers get $900 of value because their phone costs $900. Flagship Android phones tend to have so many flaws (starting with zero software updates) that it's hard to see them as premium products.
One wonders if companies like Samsung, HTC, and such are not out to make money with phones but rather create a halo for their other products or to impress investors.
When Android phones get marketed as "compact" I get excited. Then I actually look at the dimensions and they aren't really compact. Thickness matters in terms of being able to reach across the screen and the Zenfone's thickness will impact that. Even discounting the thickness, it's basically the dimensions of a Galaxy S 21.
Heck, it's an iPhone regular! The iPhone regular is 105 cm^2 and the Zenfone 8 is 101cm^2 compared to an iPhone mini at 84 cm^2. The iPhone mini shaves a lot of size off a regular iPhone - 20%. The Zenfone shaves 3.46% off the iPhone regular's face size while actually being 11.72% larger overall due to its thickness.
Heck, a Pixel 4a is smaller.
Every time I see a "compact" Android phone, they end up being not so compact.
[0] https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
I've owned the original iPod touch as my first foray into smart phones, it was small (~4.3 inches tall) and it was cheap (something like $300 for an iphone without cell service). Upgraded to the nexus 5, even though both had bars on the tops and bottoms of the screen, the extra inch it offered felt magical at the time, not too big, not too small, and the price (used) felt reasonable as 'real' phone. On top of that, stock android felt so much better than iOS at the time. I then 'upgraded' to an s7 and regretted it for 4 years. The phone was similarly sized to the nexus, but it didn't feel any larger to me. Similar to the Nexus, it was a behemoth of a phone that for my tiny hands made it difficult to hold without dropping it. Unlike the nexus, which had an incredible easy snap-off rubberized casing, the s7 had this awful glass casing, which screamed 'put a big bulky case on me!'. I got the seemingly best thing I could find, a big bulky OtterBox for $50, which seemed great, but the rubber blew apart after a year. Between the case never fitting snugly and the sheer bulk of the phone+case, getting it in and out of pockets was a serious ordeal, it also made the wireless charging not work at all for me, this meant that I had to fiddle with the stupid cables constantly. On top of all that, the OS that Samsung shipped with the phone was utter crap. For such an expensive product, I was shocked by how bad it was, and sure you can mess around with roms and such, but who has time for that crap? But hey, at least the battery was massive and I only needed to plug it in once a day.
Que, iPhone 13 mini. The phone has a slightly smaller profile than the s7, but the screen feels (and is!) massive. It's still made of glass, so I had to put a case on it, but apple sells great thin cases (tbd on lifespan) that look good, slide in out of my pockets well, and do not interfere with wireless charging, better yet, the mag-safe cases made it WAY easier to do so. With that said, it's not like I even have to charge it very often, I'm getting multiple days between charges, 3-4 if I put it into battery saver mode. I have 0 worry about ever running out of energy and being unable to charge, something that on all previous phones, compelled me to stash chargers everywhere I went and carry one around. It's a shame about the recent turn wrt to privacy, but aside from that, the software is a magical delight, miles ahead of android in my opinion. Given that I paid essentially the same price for the 13 mini as I did for the s7, and that the trade-up rates are fantastic, I view the price as an absolute steal for the phone. I truly don't see myself going back to android in the future, Apple gave me exactly what I wanted out of a phone and I pray they keep this smaller line of them around.
As to why there are no big Android contenders in the mini-space, I'd guess it's a combination of apples hardware/software being ahead of the curve, and that the perception is that the average android consumer wants a bigger phone. If I'm being a bit more cynical, companies probably also assume they can charge higher prices for bigger devices/batteries. If I were to place a bet, I'd guess that there will be a slight rebound away from phablets in the coming years, Apple proved they can strike an incredible balance between size and battery performance at a price that is reasonable compared to other flagship phones on the market. They've set the trends/pacing in the phone space for years now, I don't have a reason to believe it's going to be any different in the coming decade.
I think the problem is people use their phone as a computer now so they want a big huge screen. I use a desktop computer or laptop for anything serious and just want a phone that is as unobtrusive and one handed as possible. I lament a generation that only uses a phone for “computing.”
as evidence of this: i feel the recent success of the 14” macbook pro is specifically because it packs essentially all capabilities of the 16” model into a compact unit - and with that the price difference between the two is around $200.
If I could get a smaller screen with all the cameras I totally would.
I use a desktop computer and rarely use my phone for anything other than text messaging or sometimes checking my email. However, I do really care about the computer I own, as I got the new 16" Macbook Pro the day it was announced.
Different people like different things. Not everyone uses their phone as a computer or their computer as a Facebook scrolling machine.
That has to be not it.
They are similar in size for height/width, but the jelly 2 is about twice the depth compared to the palm. Both are around the size of a credit card in width/height.
The palm works well if all you do is occasional sms, phonecalls and very little app useage (like I have my mobile banking app on it). It only runs a older android version (8). Make sure to de-bloat it aggressively if you get it (enable developer mode, connect via ADB and remove anything verizon and everything that sounds like it might have a phone-home "feature").
If you often listen to podcasts/music on your phone and don't want a mid-day charge the palm will not work. The jelly 2 is much more realistic when it comes to battery and with light usage I get 3 days out of it, normal usage (podcasts/music a few hours per day, some surfing and email) I get 1.5 days out of it. I don't use bluetooth headphones though, so not sure how much that impacts it.
I looked at a lot of "small" phones on chinese import sites, but most of them seem to run ancient android (like 4-5) and be really, really slow with bad battery life and questionable quality. Also if I buy from an unknown brand I'd want to run LineageOS to make sure I get updates and can remove potential spyware.
The palm is pretty cheap on ebay and works even if you don't have verizon (I'm in the EU and just removed the verizon apps and used a normal SIM).
In general there are no good options for small phones. The iphone mini is too large for my tastes, the jelly 2 is a bit too thick, and the palm is running old android and has too bad battery. Depending on your usage the palm or the jelly 2 are probably the least bad options.
These three things go so well together. I have a 5 year old basic Moto that's been stripped down aggressively with ADB. It started as an experiment when battery life went south. I thought I'd be replacing it anyway. Battery life went from 7 hours of sitting quietly to 3-4 days, and suddenly it was a viable phone again. More than viable, in fact the best battery life of any mobile phone I've ever owned.
I'd add Netguard to those steps. Netguard is great for identifying which apps are phoning home, and blocking telemetry from the ones I choose to keep around, like the canned clock or contacts apps.
The few Play Store apps I have get updated by temporarily installing Aurora now and then, the rest come from FDroid. Dropping Play Store is what fixed my battery problem, that's primarily what was gorging on the watt-hours. I think that problem's been mediated since, but I've been fine without it.