Ask HN: Did you find something to use your Raspberry Pi 400 for?

93 points by dusted ↗ HN
It's so cute (to look at)! But it seems to be utterly useless for just about anything I thought I might be able to do with it.. This 4 gigabyte memory, almost 2 ghz quadcore machine seems unable to do much of anything, browsing the web is an utterly horrid experience.. Playing a game of Quake 3 is impossible. Doom can run, but only at 320x240 unless you don't mind terrible lags.

I'm considering what I can do with it.. For once, I can run an IRC client on it, but what else?

Have you found something to actually use this for?

145 comments

[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 211 ms ] thread
The only sustained use I’ve found for raspberries is IOT.

For more general compute - works but you’ve got to have a lot of patience and no other options. Even a modest NUC will be way faster

Still I think the raspberries fulfill their intended roll well.

> Even a modest NUC will be way faster

With the latest RPi 4 with 8GB ram, with an SSD drive, for my use cases I haven't found the performance problems at all. However I can totally see that for many other use cases performance might be a limiting factor.

I also considered going with NUC earlier, but because RPi is very "standard" it is very no-hassle to set up, and internet is full of different tutorials etc.

I just hope that in the future they also launch some premium & beefy version of RPi, so you could use all the same software etc but have more performance.

Note that the Pi 400 is the one built into a keyboard [1], which quite clearly is intended for general computing use and not being embedded into some IoT device.

I haven't used one, I'm considering getting one for my oldest kid when he turns 7 next year, so it's really interesting to hear people's experiences in this thread.

[1]: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/

I think a kid who’s interested in hardware projects or learning programming might be a good fit for a 400.
In that case you could just use a proper PC.
Not for the price.
Any old laptop you have laying around would do just fine and those are basically "free". It has a trackpad, keyboard, screen and speakers built-in, what more would you need. Only thing I'm worried about with laptops is the kids shutting the lid with a pen on the keyboard, breaking the screen. But so far they seem to manage that fine.
> Any old laptop you have laying around would do just fine and those are basically "free".

Not everyone has spare, fully functional laptops lying around “free”.

You can get a reasonable second hand laptop for £100. Pi 400 is £60 without the screen.
But you could hook up the Pi 400 to a large TV and you have some decent playground.
By the time your kid is 10 most people would have already bought a new computer 2 times. He can just use one of your old PCs. You don't need that much performance to learn.
> By the time your kid is 10 most people would have already bought a new computer 2 times. He can just use one of your old PCs. You don't need that much performance to learn.

By the time my first kid was born, I’d bought a new computer...well, a whole more than two times. And he’s five, and I’ve done more than two since. But the ones that aren't repurposed and in use also aren't reliable (that's why they aren't repurposed), and while you don't need much performance to learn (a plus for the Pi because it's not a master of performance), having something trustworthy is valuable. (Sure, in some cases the reliability issue is fixable with replace parts costing more than a Pi, but then...)

It strikes me that your definition of "most people" does not, in fact, include most people.
...Which would just perpetuate the PC-bucket monoculture.

At our software company we used to use PlayStation 3 as a development server running YellowDog Linux. Just testing our RPM .spec files was a gargantuan eye opener as to how many things we got wrong when we'd try rpmbuild --rebuild on YellowDog, and just because we'd write the .spec file on a PC-bucket server running CentOS. Monoculture is an extremely toxic, blinding thing, and it breeds ignorance.

If you only plan on supporting one platform it's okay if there are bugs on other problems. You have to make assumptions when making software and it's hard to know if some random platform breaks one of those assumptions.
It’s not hard: one just needs to be aware. Writing portable software is easy when the programmer is aware and thoughtful, but reaching that state will be very hard if staying on the PC-bucket. PC-bucket is a toxic computing platform, always has been.
I thought about that too, but, after having used the device, I'd not give it to someone who's not already experienced with computers.. If that was their first experience with something resembling a desktop, they'd run for their tablet and never look back.
Right I’m assuming it’s not your typical kid and they’ve demonstrated that elsewhere. It’s clearly an open question what is going to engage the next generations with Linux/computers.
Ah fair - so my comment is a little off the mark then. I was thinking of the CM module thing.
I agree with the NUCs, a good compromise ive found is the Lattepanda Delta or Alpha.

I don't have a Pi 400 but I have a similar cyberdeck that has the addition of a screen with the keyboard and board. I use it as a swiss army tool on the go for managing my cloud servers. Its like the classic monitor and keyboard you have hanging on top of your rack, but portable :D

People buying NUCs are not buying Raspberry Pis. Different use cases.
I use a pi 4 as a backup server, it has several Tb of attached USB drives. It also functions as a household Plex server pretty well.
How are the transfer speeds with that set up?

I read that for the RPi3 they would bottleneck at around 40mbps.

I confess I don't know. Fast enough not to worry about it! WiFi is more of a limiting factor in my house. I get double the speed if I'm close to the router!
The 400 is all about learning to program.

It has a huge range of GPIO, and I think hats are still compatible.

its a great terminal machine. So anything that requires text based interaction with a monitor is grand.

Video conferencing.
Not really. Max 4 people jitsi and it's pretty slow with pretty bad quality overall. Any cheap 2nd hand laptop is better.
Do RPi's have hardware accelerated encoding? If not, that's probably going to be fairly cpu intensive.
Raspberries are not bad as home network equipment. DNS/PiHole, Routing, VPN, NAS, that kind of thing doesn't need much power. Plus they run a full OS so you can manage them in the usual ways, and automate things.
Retro gaming comes to mind.
Definitely for retro-computing with the keyboard. Game consoles don't need a keyboard built in.
I used my Pi's for C64 and ZX Spectrum gaming.
How can a 2GHz machine have trouble playing Quake 3? It was designed for ~400MHz, after all.
That's what I am wondering too, especially since it's a quad core, and Q3 can actually use more than a single core.. It ran fine on my 400 mhz pentium2 back in the olden times.
Maybe it's using software rendering? Try to run `glxinfo` and look for the OpenGL renderer string.
Quake 3 doesn’t have a software renderer. It requires OpenGL.
I mean, the system could be using Mesa with the llvmpipe driver. Software rendering but OpenGL 4.5 compliant. That's why I suggested looking at the output of glxinfo.
I use it with pi-hole [1], and as a Tailscale [2] bridge.

I tried to use it as an alternative workstation (running on sway over arch); the 4K display output is nice, but limited to 30hz, and the machine just isn't peachy enough for my use-case.

[1] https://pi-hole.net/ [2] https://tailscale.com/

I've tried a RPI 3b for backups & home server, but found it too slow. Also backup drives connected over USB are said to be unreliable. Since then moved to slightly bigger, but fanless & low power motherboard, with intel x86, in mITX form factor. Asrock sells a bunch of motherboard models with J-series processors. Its more expensive though
After playing with earlier generation RPi's, my opinion was that they are useless crap, not performant and stable enough for my projects. But now I tried RPi4 8GB model, and I have to say that it is entirely different beast. For my projects they have been very stable and performant so far.
Exactly my experience. My mind boggles at the thought that a Pi 1 was considered sufficient by anyone to be a desktop replacement with its tiny amount of RAM and processing power, even back then.
I used a Pi 1 for a couple of years as my main desktop. It's definitely possible if you don't need bloated apps to do your work.
Unfortunately the modern web is the perfect definition of bloated software, and you cannot really get stuff done without it. At minimum, it's needed for banking, government documents, and e-learning/collaboration platforms.
After setting up a NAS with a Pi 3 earlier, I came to the same conclusion: it just wasn't ready for primetime yet. The USB bus was a huge bottleneck.

Pi 4 is a different beast. It's actually feasible to run it as a NAS without greatly compromising performance. They did a great job reducing the bottleneck, to the extent that I don't mind attaching all my external drives to a couple of these.

It's orders of magnitude more powerful than machines that can run Doom or Quake. The ports you have tried must be terrible.
Or misconfigured? Graphics drivers and configuration would be the first suspect.
I wonder about this too, particularly with what effects it might be having on the browser performance. It feels noticeably worse than a browser on an equivalent phone.
Even with everything configured right, the browsing experience can be stuttery. From a performance / resource usage perspective, the web is an absolute disaster today.
Well, yes. But making relative comparisons is still useful. And I'm not just thinking about the open web: one of the most common use cases I've got for my pi 400 is as a front-end to the octoprint instances I've got running on other pi's in the house. It's just not quite as slick on the 400 as it should be.
When I first got my 400, I set it up to run on my 4K monitor at an appropriate resolution for such a monitor and.. it was super slow. The mouse pointer lagged, everything was terrible. After changing to 1920x1080 it was smooth as butter 60Hz even using the browser, so I think something is definitely going on in terms of drivers.
Is this your personal experience, what did you do to get them to run well ?

I literally just installed the official operating system, following the official instructions and installed both pieces of software from the official package repositories.

I haven't tried the official OS but with Alpine I had to enable a DT overlay (IIRC vc4-fkms-v3d) and install the relevant mesa driver (probably mesa-dri-vc4) to get X performance to a level where it's not absolute misery. Some other tweaks were required too to support my screen resolution.

For Quake3, you may have to change the renderer to opengl1 or try q3lite. See https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=247841

(I have not tried Q3 myself but I know it can run, it even runs on RPi1. There are videos on youtube)

If a game from 1993 designed for 4 mb of ram and a 12 Mhz CPU is struggling on your 4gb ram 2 Ghz cpu, something must be amiss...
The source ports are more recent, and no longer designed for 4mb of RAM and 12Mhz.
It depends deeply on what version of doom the poster is talking about. Dhewm3 (source port of Doom 3) runs at 7 FPS on my RPi 4. The original Doom should run perfectly fine. The 2016 version of Doom is unlikely to run with any degree of playability.
Intriguing. I always though that when people talk about running doom it 100% of time meant Doom 1 and 2.
Try one of the other Doom ports. Odamex, Crispy Doom, or Zandronum should be able to run quite well on that machine. You may have to adjust graphics settings.
Not necessarily terrible, just not best for that device. gzDoom is fairly resource heavy, but it's had a load of bells and whistles added. Odamex would be more likely to run, and Crispy Doom is basically guaranteed.
It's a device for children to get them into computing. Do you always buy things you have no use for?

Also, is everyone missing that this is about the Raspberry Pi 400. Why are half the comments about Raspis in general and running servers on them etc?

What's wrong with a phone or a PC?
A phone? Really? I don't even know how to hack stuff on my phone and I'm a professional programmer. Nothing wrong with a PC, it's just much bigger, more expensive (although second hand gear is probably cheaper than this, it just won't look as good) and a much bigger barrier to entry as most people don't know how to install Linux on a PC. The Raspberry Pi is literally "do this to the SD card then switch it on". Plus it has GPIO pins and ready to use Python libraries for them. It's literally made for learning.
There's plenty of free cloud IDE / web hosts that you can use straight from your phone. That's plenty if you just want to learn.
Phones are not designed for content creation (and more broadly, treat on-device development as a second-class activity at best), while PCs are much more expensive and you could damage the Windows install by installing Linux in dual-boot.

By comparison, a basic Pi is development friendly, easily fixable, fairly cheap and inexpensive to replace if broken. If you already have the peripherals, the cost is quite low.

I assume most people already own a PC. Even if you are a family who runs Windows you can still use WSL or a VM.
SBC are generally not intended for typical desktop usage, although they're sometimes advertised to do so. The memory limitation is not the only problem; out-of-the box storage speed is (some competitors have an eMMC port, or even a built-in SATA port(s)).

I've previously used an older RPi version as server, specifically:

  - file sharing server
  - VPN server
  - BitTorrent client
  - SMB server
It did work fine, although I personally find SD cards slow (and didn't want to add extra complexity, ie. adapters), and ARM tricky in some cases, so I moved to an SBC that was more comfortable for my use case.
> SBC are generally not intended for typical desktop usage, although they're sometimes advertised to do so.

The problem though is that in an embedded system you often want instantaneous boot-times. So from that perspective the pi doesn't seem to serve both markets very well.

Pi's original CPU was designed for set-top boxes. No set-top box I've ever experienced puts a priority on boot time.
I've got a pi 400 in my workshop as a computer where I don't give a crap whether I short out something by plugging something ridiculous into it, or spill some random solvent all over it. I've already replaced it once because I did something stupid. I'm sure I'll do it again. When I'm not interfacing random hardware to it, it's a handy front-end for the octoprint instances I've got running my 3d printers.
I use my RPi 4 (8GB RAM) as my daily desktop for months now. I have Firefox opened up with at least ten tabs all the time (even two Youtube tabs). It can easily handle more tabs. No problems at all with my programming tasks (only text-based, so not a surprise). I even run GIMP without problems to edit images/photos. My only little complaint is I can't run SuperTuxkart on it.

Now planning on buying a second RPi 4 to combine it with a touch screen from Waveshare and a fat battery pack to ultimately replace my Aidsdroid smartphone.

My significant other has been using it as their primary desktop computer for over 6 months now (with a probably-too-big computer screen attached to it). They use it to work on their PhD with LibreOffice and browse the internet (we have some "smartness" in our home and some common online tools we use, but all of those work as simple websites). It's been great, this is their first time seriously living with Linux and open source software. The form factor helped a lot with onboarding (it is quite cute, and the book that comes with it is a really nice addition for non-technical people, even if they never read-read it).

Their complaint is that Calc sometimes lags/hangs with a few thousand rows of heavily formatted data (they're not a data scientist, but still need to deal with government-issued xls[x] files). It wasn't a serious problem though and a great opportunity to "look under the hood" of what was happening and introduce them to CSV files. The other "problem" is that online shopping websites are often horribly slow, but again, I'd say there's a lesson in there and it could be viewed as a feature.

So all in all I am a huge fan. I think it's a great way to onboard people on good-enough-computing and open source. There is something magical about its form factor that resonates with "non-technical" people. Also quite cheap and accessible.

Not sure why you are downvoted (edit: were downvoted I guess), I think this is a great use for it. It's much more powerful than you'd think.

You are also one of the few that specifically gives a use case for the pi 400 (basically a Keyboard with a pi inside [0]), not just a normal pi, which I think has many other use cases (more server-y). The pi 400 is a desktop computer indeed.

[0]: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/

Off-topic - beware, here there be dragons

I find the consistent use of the plural "they/their" really jarring and for some reason it stands out even more than normal in this post. I hope this fad will pass and people will finally accept that it is fine to say "he" or "she" again like has been done for centuries without problems. Considering that acceptance of differences - between male and female, between heterosexual and homosexual, between religious and secular, between "white" and "black" and between any other potential identity category - has been the focus of society for the past half century it is counterproductive (to say the least) to suddenly start hiding behind plural pronouns. This trend is even stranger when considering the fact that it has become fashionable to explicitly proclaim membership of other identity categories.

So what pronoun should a non-binary person use?
Would you prefer to use "hit" the Old English neuter pronoun?

Language changes. Get used to it. Or not, but it will anyway.

Language evolves naturally, true, but this tends to be a relatively slow process for larger changes like this. What we're dealing with here is not a natural evolution of language but a directed revolution. I prefer evolution over revolution, hence my counter-revolutionary language.
Change is change. It will stick or it will not. This seems like one that might stick.

I have to add, if someone is gay or straight, tall or short, black or white, fat or thin, or has any shade or variety of other attributes we don't immediately reveal that with a pronoun. Perhaps gender should be the same. Unless you think gender is special? In which case, well, maybe that is the problem.

Well, yes, sex - which is what I'm talking about - is "special" in the sense that it is a central and essential part of mammalian life, which we are but one example of. Without it none of us would be here after all.

The fact that what I wrote just now is considered to be "controversial" is a good indicator of the revolutionary drive behind the language change - had I written this 10 years ago nobody would have blinked an eye or if they would it would have been for me stating an obvious fact.

Honestly it kind of seems like you just want it to be controversial. You’re post was off topic (as you prefaced) and I just don’t think it’s constructive.

Anyway, “they” is a perfectly natural way to refer to a person of unspecified gender. I wish HN posters used “they” more often instead of just assuming everyone is male

Sure, but gender-neutral pronouns aren't special. True, English hasn't recently had one. Now, it seems, it does. Why is that a big deal? Just because trendy people think it's a good idea?

Well, I'm not super trendy and on balance I'm in favour of it.

But neither of our views will carry much weight in the long run. It's not up to us.

Also, I have to say, there's a lot of stuff that used to be treated as "obvious fact" that was hugely prejudiced.

Pi's are great for small self-hosted apps like Home-Assistant. And those little SCBs were the stepping stone for me, one year later I bought a refurbished Dell server. Great learning tool, without the humble pi...I would never have felt comfortable getting a server blade.
That's the usecase I see for the usual RPis, I have a couple doing various busywork around the house, but the 400 is a different thing, with it's formfactor and keyboard..
It's interesting to see that nobody seems to notice I'm talking about the RPi400, which is a keyboard form-factor, and not the small sbc which is clearly meant for iot and other such non-interactive uses.
doh. You are right.

RPi400 could be the replacement for the One latop per child project perhaps.

For some other Raspberry Pi's I can see an use IoT, automation, play with dyi robots.

But for a stand alone computer which is slower than my 2 years old phone, I can't find an use. Maybe it could be useful to slowly and painfully port some software to ARM.

I bought an RPi 4 with the goal of streaming my Android screen using scrcpy but that turned out to be horrible. If I'm not mistaken, the RPi 400 has the same hardware specs as an RPi 4 (minus the keyboard) so your experience would mostly be the same on both.

After a while, I realized that an RPi 4 is a terrible device if you intend to use it as a desktop. Either hardware acceleration won't work and even if it does, YouTube will lag like hell on 1080p. Forget YouTube, even stock XFCE with hardware acceleration is not as responsive as it would be on a meager Celeron/Pentium potato. The cost might justify using RPi 4 as a desktop for some people but if you're not restricted by cost, don't buy an RPi 4 to use it as a desktop.

RPi 4 can be a great choice for a headless server though. I use it to run AdGuard Home to block ads on all of my devices. I'm also considering buying another RPi 4 to use it as a router and another for using a e-Ink screen to show time.

Power usage is another point in Pi 4's favour. My desktop spends at least 120W (ish) for fairly lightweight tasks.
It powers the arcade with RetroPI at my friend's hang out place.
I spent around 5 months in 2019 using a Raspberry Pi 3B+(1GB of RAM) as my sole home computer because my laptop broke. You can browse the web if you aggressively close tabs and block almost all js (and periodically restart the browser). Editing latex was possible as was writing some code (although using a modern editor and the web simultaneously isn't always an option - I grew to love nano). I did have a access to a modern x86 machine in an office.

Github was probably the most painful website (although it's still better than Gitlab which doesn't work at all without js). I think it had recently removed a bunch of functionality for users without js and it's not designed with people who care about every 100MB of RAM in mind.

Using RPi 400 as a home PC in living room to read news, to watch videos, to listen music, etc.

Using RPi 4 8GB as a desktop PC for office manager (LibreOffice) and for a couple of developers as a "terminal" to bigger dev system. They pretty much used to it.

The 400 was designed to be a cheap desktop computer, and not really a tool for hackers to play with. If you already have a computer, then why would you use a 400? Why not just get a 4?

Thanks to generous donations, we've provided thousands of these devices to children all over the UK, to enable them to access education, especially important during the pandemic. Providing an affordable computing platform was always the aim.

You can learn more and donate here - https://www.raspberrypi.org/support-learn-at-home/

Disclaimer - I work for The Raspberry Pi Foundation.

Having everything in one place does help - the traditional pis have so many cables and are prone to being flung off the desk.
Isn't the whole drive behind hacking to make something do things other than it was intended to do?
Why include the GPIO pins if at some level it wasn't intended to be a maker / hacker platform?
Hi, I'm, well, not entirely sure where the line lies between playing with computers, to me, most things worthwhile is some form of play.

Anyhow, I purchased it as a solution waiting for a problem, and I'm trying to find the problem with this post. I didn't mean to come across as overly negative, making such a product for the price point it has, is an achievement no doubt.

However, one can buy used "conventional" computers that are far more powerful than the pi, if one wishes a "cheap desktop computer".

What's attractive about the 400 is the formfactor and, well, it's something new to play with.. I'm truly trying to find out what to do with it, what the things are, where it'd be neat to have this tiny machine, that is totally silent, and can be always-on, probably next to my battlestations for a new usecase that I'd not want to reserve an entire workstation for.

So yea, sorry about the rant, but I'm asking this question not as a way to put down the 400, but to hear what people have used theirs for.

I bought it for my daughter, mostly to let her take part in online classes during the pandemic.

Initially, I was disappointed with the performance, but with some tweaks (namely, replacing the default browser with "Chromium Media Edition") it can handle a 15-person hangout well enough. It definitely performs much better in that aspect than our 5-year-old iPad we used before. For one, it doesn't turn your camera off without any notice like the Google Hangouts app does on iPad when the processor usage is too high.

TL;DR I higly recommend this for a early-primary-school child (even one without strong technical inclinations.) +++ Very small, easily fits on the desk + Cheap: I think for this price we would only be able to get an old and clunky PC. + Good way to introduce your kid to Linux and its quirks (like only being able to connect a bluetooth speaker after you try 3 times... ;) ) + Potential for future fun with hacking - Not very good for games (but we like to keep an eye on our children's screentime anyway, so they can play on a console in the living room instead)

I wrote a very simple Python/OpenCV based surveillance video app that plays about 10 fps and saves a new video file every few minutes. I write video surveillance software, and seeing if the RPi400 could handle the processing load was my goal. It can.