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Ask YC: Intact Medieval Towns?

44 points by pg ↗ HN
I'm going on vacation soon and I'd like to visit some intact medieval towns. I'm looking for places like Toledo, Venice, and Siena that were important towns in 1200 but backwaters by 1700, and thus weren't overwritten. Can anyone suggest more like that?

(Even though this is a personal request, I feel ok submitting it to news.yc, because visiting "fossil" towns is one of the best ways I know to understand history.)

Thanks in advance!

62 comments

[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 125 ms ] thread
furiouslol
transylvania, romania
ovi256
Don't forget Transylvania is a region, not a town. Nice medieval towns are: Sighisoara, Sibiu, Brasov. One could try the Medieval villages, even better preserved than towns, with their fortification perimeter walls, fortified churches (oh yes) etc. Really beautiful, out of this world places.

Full disclosure: I'm from Arad, right near the historic region of Transylvania, Romania. Quite biased, even after living for years in Spain and France.

jwilliams
I just visited Krakow in Poland - My impression of Poland before going was very biased - I still locked into a communist era view of Poland. When I arrived I was just stunned at how beautiful the place was.

Fits the bill reasonably well. Very prominent in earlier history, but fell out of prominence in 1600. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakow

Despite auschwitz being down the road it escaped bombing in WWII - and whilst the communist era didn't help, recent restoration efforts are simply stunning. Amazing amount of fantastic architecture in a very compact town. The town centre, including the castle is UNESCO listed.

It's one of the nicer places I've been to in Europe. Also.. It's not quite a prime target on the tourist radar yet - which can be a big plus.

ra
Some suggestions, Last year we spent some time in Romania. Romania has Sibiu, Timisoara, Brasov, Sighisoara ... all very cool medieval towns. Rasnov and Sighisoara are both hilltop fort villages.

Also, you might also be interested in Lviv, Ukraine.

Have fun!

unonium
cesky krumlov, czech republic
rgrieselhuber
Noooo! Don't tell people about this town. I don't want it Prague-ified.
david927
It already is getting there.
shawndrost
Central Prague is like that, if somewhat overrun by tourism. I accidentally arrived at predawn and wandered around as the light came in -- highly recommended.
wheels
Prague is beautiful, but the architecture there for the most part is a few centuries post-medieval.
david927
You're right, but Prague is one of the few cities where you can find great examples of every architectural style from medieval up to modern.

Try Ceske Krumlov, a small town to the south, for something more medieval.

jwilliams
Yeah it's a real shame - it's a very popular stag party destination for tourists from the UK and Germany.

It's actually worth checking out in Winter - It's freezing - but, there are hardly any tourists and the cold and the snow actually compliments the city in a way.

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delano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roermond (Netherlands)

Julius Caesar called it Villa Optima. It was destroyed in 1213 and rebuilt by 1232. It was occupied by the Romans, France, Austria, Germany, among others over the years. There was also some damage in WWII but despite all that the city is mostly intact.

And don't be fooled by the modern convenience of the Outlet Mall (which is beyond the remnants of the old city wall). Most of the shoppers are German (not that there's anything wrong with that) and incidentally there are several short-haul bike routes into Germany. There's a bike shop next to the train station and there are a few cute German towns within 20km.

raganwald
Bruges, Belgium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruges

randomwalker
I would also suggest Ghent, Belgium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghent

"Much of the city's medieval architecture remains intact and is remarkably well preserved and restored. Its center is the largest carfree area in Belgium."

I was there last month, it was pretty nifty.

Bruges is super-touristy, Ghent slightly less so. You should try to check out a non-touristy town as well, that nevertheless has a significant amount of medieval architecture. Examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechelen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuven

reitzensteinm
Do you mind posting your short list when you figure it out? I had my first holiday around Europe recently, mainly sticking to the capital cities except for Bavaria, and next time I'd like to explore off the beaten track a lot more. All the places mentioned here are going right into my ideas for next time file.
sanj
I loved visiting Vinci, Italy. It has a lovely little museum with the works of its most famous son.

Montepulciano was amazing as well, but perhaps falls under the Siena category.

Cuzco, Peru -- at least the central core -- may be an example as well. As would other Inca settlements.

dhyasama
Dubrovnik, Croatia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrovnik

dzorz
+1. This would be the best time to visit Dubrovnik because there won't be as many tourists as in summer.
pelle
Split, Croatia is also great it's actually a medieval city built inside a Roman palace: http://flickr.com/photos/pelle/sets/72157604400174148/

Close by is the island of Hvar, which is also pretty amazing. It was built by the Venetians as a trading outpost: http://flickr.com/photos/pelle/sets/72157604497939272/

A great resource for someone wanting to learn about how these kinds of places help mold our modern business world, I recommend Nick Szabo's blog Unenumerated. See this post about Genoa for example:

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2006/10/genoa.html

dcurtis
Rothenburg, Germany is a really cool place. Might want to check it out.
mechanical_fish
I went to Rothenburg ob der Tauber:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber

Not exactly off the beaten path today -- it's been Tourist Central since the 1880s -- but it was off the beaten path for hundreds of years before that, which is the important part.

Stay overnight. Many tourists don't, which makes it a good way to avoid some of them. Wandering around the corners of medieval buildings near dusk makes the whole vibe even more fun.

I also can't argue with Bruges, Belgium, which has the advantage of having actual non-tourist-industry inhabitants. Plus, Belgian beer! (Not that Bavaria is lacking in the beer department.)

alex_c
Another vote here for Rothenburg. It is perhaps even more "medieval" than Siena (though to be fair, I spent two days in Rothenburg, and only an afternoon in Siena).

The downside is that it is very tourist-y. It almost seemed like the only things there were hotels, museums, and gift shops.

The upside is that it still feels authentic. I picked my hotel pretty much just based on price and availability, and it was charming - you can even see it in random pictures like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Street_in_Rothenburg.JPG (I forget the name, but it's the one with the bell sign). My friends stayed at a different hotel, and had the same experience.

Walking along the walls at night can be an amazing experience - it had rained earlier, it was foggy, street lights reflected off the cobblestones, and no tourists in sight... it felt like we were transported to a different century.

As for taverns, I would recommend Zur Höll (meaning "Hell"), it's supposed to be over 1000 years old - and if you manage to get the table in the basement (which is actually a giant bellows), that claim seems quite believable.

http://www.romanticroad.com/hoell/english/dine.htm

omakase
Rothenburg, Siena, and San Gimignano are all worth visiting. There are many nice hotels outside the walls of Rothenburg.

Make sure you visit the museums of criminology (aka torture museums) in these towns/

robg
Krupa and I recently enjoyed traveling through the Abruzzo region of central Italy which has many more hill towns. Wish we had gotten to Siena though!

We especially enjoyed Civitella del Tronto: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civitella_del_Tronto

and the surrounding area includes pretty sweet hikes including one that visits a cave (Grotte Sant'Angelo) with documented religious uses back to BC times.

jwilliams
If you do go to Siena, try and go to the Il Palio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palio_di_Siena

Each district of Siena has a horse in a (quite violent) race around the square.

Whilst it's generally a massive attraction for tourists the locals take it very seriously and it's not just a tourist attraction at all. After the race the winning district put out their banners and have a massive party.

tomh
Regensburg, Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg

I have friends who live there and they like it a lot. Especially cool during the Christmas festivals, lots of markets with mulled wine and decorations for sale.

herdrick
I think Estonia's old Hanse town, Tallin (Reval) fits. Between 1549 and 1625 its church was the tallest building in the world (and its peak height wouldn't be exceeded until 1884!. Very interesting table here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294496 ). Wikipedia has good historical population numbers for the town:

Year . . . . Population

1372 . . . . 3,250

1772 . . . . 6,954

But I've haven't visited yet, so I'm not sure.

rms
Thanks for the link, that's a great Wikipedia article
herdrick
Agreed - in fact I just submitted it as a new HN story.
asmosoinio
Tallinn Old Town is definitely a good place. Lot's of restaurants and tourists, but the buildings and the atmosphere is really medieval.

Another somewhat similar place close by is old town in Stockholm, aka "Gamla Stan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamla_Stan). The feeling there is a bit less medieval though, could be that some of the buildings are a bit newer or maybe just look that way.

I have visited both places many times.

And while you're at it, go check out Turku in Finland. Some nice old buildings and my home town. :) Castle is from 1280s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turku_Castle

herdrick
A good algorithim would be to take a list of Hanse towns and subtract the ones you've heard of. The rest are backwaters that were previously important.
mtts
Good suggestion.

However, research the ones that are left before you spend a day travelling to one of them, as chances are it'll be pretty but very, very small (thinking of Doesburg and Bronkhorst, for example).

keninglis
Lucca, Tuscany - starting to get a bit touristy but a nice mixture of Roman, mediaeval with intact city walls that you can walk round.
davidw
Italy is littered with them, as I suspect you may already know. What size towns are you looking for? The weather i n Italy in September/October is often still pretty nice, too, compared with the more northerly portions of Europe.

- Lucca is a good one, as someone mentioned below.

- Verona has a great mix of stuff, from the Roman Arena (which is very impressive) to the Scaligeri castle, to other things dating from the Venetian era.

- In the Veneto, Monselice and Montagnana are smaller towns that are worth about half a day each. You could combine those with some touring around the Colli Euganei. Arqua Petrarca is a cute little town famous for being the final resting place of Petrarch, and a pleasant place in its own right. In terms of history, Monselice had its high point when it was the local center of power for the Lombards - Padova fell along with the Roman empire. Montagnana, along with Cittadella to the north of Padova, was an outpost against neighboring city states. To this day, the province of Padova includes Montagnana and Cittadella, whereas Treviso's own outpost, Castelfranco, delimits the edge of that province.

http://www.welton.it/photos/monselice/

http://www.welton.it/photos/colli_euganei/

- Central Italy is filling up with tourists: Umbria and Le Marche are a bit more off the beaten path. Perugia is a wonderful town where I have good memories, Urbino is good too, although it's kind of small. San Marino is someplace I've never visited, but it has been pretty much by definition left alone over the years (thus its independence). The whole area has been 'passed over', s you're quite likely to discover your own favorite, off the beaten places by renting a car and exploring, if that's your idea of a good time.

- I don't know southern Italy quite so well, but I had a great time visiting my friend Salvatore in Ragusa - the old part of that city is impressive.

http://www.welton.it/photos/ragusa/

Let's see... I don't know so much about Austria, but Innsbruck is ok for a day (much more if you like outdoor sports like hiking), and Salzburg has a lot to see and is relatively well preserved. Hall in Tirol is worth an afternoon, and in the middle ages was more important than Innsbruck. They minted coins from the nearby silver mine there until the whole enterprise collapsed as 'cheap' silver from the new world put them and the mine out of business.

I could probably write a book about Italy, email me know if you have any more questions. Depending on my availability, I'd be happy to show you, or anyone else from this site, around the Padova area, where my wife's family is from, or at the very least put you in contact with friends down there. Of course, should anyone stop by Innsbruck, I'm always happy to meet hacker/startup types... I'm pretty lonely here from that point of view.

Edit: Damn... now I miss Italy...

edu
Hi, I recommend that you visit Montblanc, in Tarragona (Spain), near Barcelona: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montblanc,_Tarragona

More to the north, near the Coast (if you also want some beach) there is Pals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals

Also, in France but also pretty near to Barcelona you can visit Carcassonne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcassonne

Finally, but not completely intact, the Barri Gòtic in Barcelona may interest you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barri_Gòtic

If you ever com here, and need anything don't hesitate to drop a mail.

adnam
Carcasonne has a strange fortified city which looks medieval but was actually built in the mid 1800s. If you drive from there towards Andorra you come accross lots of old medieval villages with castles, such as this one in Foix:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Foix

Aachen in Germany should probably be on the list - it was once the centre of Charlemagne's empire, but today it has been eclipsed by nearby Cologne and Bonn. It was bombed pretty badly during the war but the town hall and cathedral survived intact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen

baha_man
Carcassonne was restored in the second half of the 19th century, see the wikipedia article above.
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