Ask HN: Do you feel you are able to be yourself in your job?

50 points by drdunce ↗ HN
Many companies, particularly in the tech scene seem to have high expectations of their employees. These expectations go far beyond skills or shared ethics into fuzzier areas such as cultural values. In some cases a companies attempt to architect their own sub-culture and expect staff to follow.

There's been a few high profile cases of quite senior staff in companies standing down recently after they've expressed an opinion in the public forum that didn't align with that of the company (e.g. Google).

Diametrically opposed to this, there's been situations in which a large number of the staff have collectively challenged the company itself (e.g. the Netflix walkout).

I thought it might be interesting to ask, day-to-day, to what extent do you feel free to express yourself where you work, do you perfectly align with the companies chosen culture, and how important is this to you?

73 comments

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I just joined a startup about 6 weeks ago. yesterday I've been told it was quite boring before I joined and they dread the day the company grows and HR starts watching you. unfortunately today I've been "language-policed" for the first time and probably not the last :(

it's been fun. that's one of the reasons I don't support rapid growth, but investors expect that (ceo said that) and nearly every day there's a new face and to be honest it looks like they will accept anyone who's willing to work there because offices not in central location. sad. I'd much rather keep a tight culture of close friends who are always on top of what's going on.

What do you mean by, "language policed"?
Use of politically correct language, I guess
Please avoid using the word police in this context, it detracts from the work done by actual police officers.
that's a pretty good example of language policing.
The comment even got downvoted, so yes a good example all around.
> to be honest it looks like they will accept anyone who's willing to work there because offices not in central location. sad.

What's that say about your own potential qualifications for the job?

> unfortunately today I've been "language-policed" for the first time and probably not the last :(

What did you say exactly?

I've been lucky enough to work in a couple places where I felt I could relax and be myself. Not feeling that way at many other companies is a part of why I've started businesses.

I consider it quite the luxury and I think it's especially rare outside tech. Also once you find it, enjoy it because it does tend to fade.

I remember one job in particular there was a focus on openness, transparency, and being yourself. I wasn't really sure if it was marketing or not, always hard to tell early on. I was even meditating with a group there which is not something I would normally talk about with coworkers.

But alas they eventually fired everyone involved with the transparency stuff and replaced the leadership.

I think smaller tends to be better. I don't really have any tips on searching. It's not like something you can ask about very directly.

Ok here is one thing that's maybe something. You want to try to work in places that engineers are delivering real tangible value and the buerocracy feels like this flimsy thing that just happens to be there to defer to all the value being created every day.

Both of the companies I felt the most comfortable at had that in common.

The inverse has also been true. If I think of the easiest jobs where it's mostly meetings and nonsense, buerocrats have had more power and have made up more imaginary culture you're supposed to repeat.

I have my own consulting company with myself only, so huge yes.

And when I'm at a customer, I'm always myself and never faking relationships or try to make friends with people higher up if I don't like them.

Because of this, I create genuine relationships that last a long time and where everyone is themselves.

I've been working at a smaller company (<20 employees) for a bit over a year now, and we're all quite similar. Most people are <30 years old, so internet culture has taken over. Politically, we're all similar.

Quite happy being here, and not having to worry that hr might try to police us.

I work in Hong Kong and I dont speak Chinese so I work only in heavily multicultural teams.

It's common belief around me the best teams are mono cultures, for instance a philipino team in my prev company, who all moved together to HK when we restructured, was extremely satisfied, spent all their time together and some couples even sprung up. Meanwhile the mexicano-hindi-chinese team next to them was miserable and my franco-pakhistani bi-cultured team was alright (even if we vomitted the odd Chinese teammate management would attempt to add once in a while).

It's not that people are actively racist/xenophobic, it's that you're very lonely if you dont have someone to share language, inside jokes, or even beliefs and values with.

I work in an enormous company now having around 100k employees all over the world with no choice but to mix. Well, the indians will work best woth other indians, all my chain of management is french and the Chinese keep to themselves nonetheless. It's insane this is not more explained / studied / accepted, or I havent looked enough.

Our own monocultured european global management, all blonde and proper, still tell us about the wealth of diversity we must cultivate. They still send blonde managers from Europe to replace the asian people they cant work with at the top...

Ironically, if it were the case that people didn't "feel [they] were able to be [themselves] at work", then you wouldn't know if some of those 20 people were faking their political views in order to fit in. Making an assertion that 'politically, we're all similar' sort of ignores the whole proposition that some may feel the need to hide their views in order to avoid political prejudice.
I guess I never really thought about that, actually the more i think about it the more likely it seems, as my boss has been quite hostile towards socialist ideas.
As the company grew a lot I learned to stop to making jokes after getting a note from HR for an innocuous comment. Try to be mute now
This is the unfortunate reality. Be quiet at work and yourself outside of the office away from colleagues.
I work at a small business whose core employees are pretty staunchly conservative (e.g., still prominently displaying Trump campaign stickers) and all go to the same church together every Sunday. A surprising number of business decisions get made at after-service coffee hour.

It can be difficult asking for time off to be with my husband when I know most of them don’t consider me to be married, and are eagerly looking forward to the overturn of Obergefell.

I would leave, but few people seem to want a rapidly-approaching forty mathematician-slash-software-dev.

This is an important observation to share with us. Thank you.

A previous comment mentioned the "value" of homogeneous cultures. I'm sure, from the POV of your coworkers, they have a homogeneous culture - everyone is the same (except for that one person - you). From your POV, you are the odd person out. I'm sorry you don't feel welcome.

I fully own that taking a job here was my decision and I knew in advance what I was getting into. There are some incidental circumstances that make the job somewhat desirable despite that.
Well, we are looking forward to "the book to come" out of it :)

All the best!

Regarding your last statement, and depending on how much experience you have with the software-dev side, you may find you have more options than you expect. Lots of folks seem to be looking for software devs at the moment, and I personally would see the mathematics background as a potential bonus (even if not directly applicable it generally suggests a certain amount of rigorous consideration that is beneficial for software development as well). There appear to be quite a few remote options (see the "who's hiring" discussions) but also, if you're willing to relocate, my employer would likely be interested. E-mail me at my username @ gmail.com if you'd like more details/to discuss further.

Sincerely, A just-finished-being-forty electrical-engineer-turned-software-dev

PS I'm planning to write up a response to the OP next; check that out for a little more insight into what my employer is like

This is fairly normal. My wife, friends, and I are all in very different fields and all play professionalism daily. That's life in a workplace. That's why business attire exists: to keep personality out of it as much as possible and give people a stable and predictable place to focus on the business at hand.

The last job I had where I could be myself was as a pizza delivery guy. Even as I moved through my career, wearing shorts was about as personalized as the workplace got.

The question does imply that one knows one's self sufficiently to answer.
The unexamined career's not worth having.
Nope. There's always some level of unconscious bias on many personal subjects.
Now that I'm a freelancer that works from home, yes.

But before that, no.

Unconventional lifestyle choices aren't directly frowned upon, but the less your superiors think you're one of them, the worse you're prospects of "getting ahead in the game" are.

No way.

5+ years ago, I'd have been more myself but with today's politics it's not worth it. I don't think I've ever said anything wrong, but I used to occasionally express opinions and make jokes with the teams I got chummy with. Nowadays I'm pretty sure everything I say has potential to be misinterpreted and potentially be used against me. I used to like being social on Slack but I make it a rule these days to use Slack minimally and to significantly reduce or eliminate unnecessary socializing. No, I will not be attending after-work socials and I won't be going on team lunch outings all the time. When asked about anything remotely controversial, either I'll not say anything or I'll be the greatest fence-sitter that ever lived.

In all honesty, maybe it's for the best. I'd rather work be a place where we show up, do work, get paid, and go home. As much as I miss some of the good times I had socializing and having others actually get to know me, there's really no reason for me to express myself in that setting or have others express themselves to me.

I hate to say it but after working for 7 years I have the same conclusion. In the end people live to save themselves.
> In all honesty, maybe it's for the best. I'd rather work be a place where we show up, do work, get paid, and go home.

Agree 100%. It's just easier for everyone to have work / life balance. And with that comes boundaries.

> Nowadays I'm pretty sure everything I say has potential to be misinterpreted and potentially be used against me. I used to like being social on Slack but I make it a rule these days to use Slack minimally and to significantly reduce or eliminate unnecessary socializing.

Agreed. All it takes is one sensitive coworker to share one screenshot, and your career is over. It's baffling we, as society, have come to this.

Oddly enough, yes. I work at a big enough company where even my manager and my manager’s manager is meaningless. The team also has seasoned enough people to know just how little we actually are in the grand scheme of things. There’s some liberty in how we talk simply because we don’t take ourselves too seriously.

That isn’t to say we’re blabbering out intense politics or strong stances on social issues, but we are reasonably free to brush lightly on stuff.

Yes.

I think it's quite easy being yourself in the workplace by remembering that 1) you're working with other people who don't always share your viewpoint & 2) realising that there is a sense of professionalism that is implicitly required.

At the end of the day you're meant to enjoy what you do, but you're likely also meant to do it alongside other people.

IMO you shouldn't be yourself at work. Develop a work personality that aligns with your internal ethical compass. Keep your private life private, and do your job as a true professional would.
Sounds tiring. Do you enjoy that?
I can't speak for totalZero but I feel the same way. I am not at work to make lifelong friends, I am working so I can eventually retire early and do what I really want (that doesn't have any opportunity to earn income).

I don't find it tiring. I do the same thing with my family and more so my spouse's family, who are very religious. I'm used to it.

Not even remotely. But I love what I do for a living.
I also live this life. I let them in on some personal stuff, basically the stuff I am willing to post on other social networks. But nothing beyond that. It is not tiring at all. I think a lot of us have been doing this for a long portion of our lives, think of if you've attempted to keep any sense of anonymity or privacy to any facet of your real life versus your online persona(s).
Interesting; so privacy and others for the politics. I did it for a few years when I started working decades ago, found it tiring and never did it again. It rapidly separates like minded people from people who do not like me and that is almost always reciprocal without knowing them. Privacy is interesting; I cannot imagine how you work with people every day 8 hours and then have shields up!
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If I was truly myself in an interview I would have never gotten a job.

I believe that people who are most successful in the corporate ladder are those that are able to be completely pathologically "fake".

Ah, an in-the-wild explanation of the Gervais Principle.
This is a pretty common refrain from people who can't comprehend what it means to work with other people that have feelings and beliefs that don't jive with them.

If no one would ever hire "the real you," it seems pretty plausible to me that the real you is terrible. I get that that's something you can't control without faking it, but at least realize that this isn't true for everyone.

I totally disagree. The real me is not "terrible". I'm just a normal person, I have good days and bad days.

Some days I'm energetic, up for the challenge, other days I'm lazy and don't want to talk to anyone.

I don't think that makes me a "terrible" person as you suggest. But if I present the full range of my personality, no employer will take that risk.

If you believe so, then you're naive.

Sure, I've built a reputation as the person that says what needs said. That's just how I am, and the same tact works there too. I've been here about five years, my longest stint.

The secret is staying productive in the criticisms I've found.

This isn't particularly common; many places have tried to treat me like a child or sweep real problems under the rug. It wasn't a good fit so I moved on

Life is too short to masquerade. I'll try to be tolerable, but I'm not definitively changing who I am or my principles either

Absolutely not.

I don't say a peep about anything remotely 'Current Events'. If someone brings something up then I give non-committal answers like "Huh" and "Wow" and then excuse myself. I've lasted too long in the corporate world to get taken out by some pointless discussion.

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Not really. I'm often the only one that has a problem with a product feature or process, and my speaking up just results in more work (remaking my case multiple times) and no additional work for anyone else. It's better to clam up and let them discover the problems themselves.

Not that I am always right. Maybe they're not real problems? In that case being silent is still a clear win.

I recently changed my manager and I just realized that, for the first time in my live, I should not be myself in my job. I am still learning how to do this, but it's not easy.

It turns out I'm just way too different form my manager, we have fundamental differences in our points of view and for a lot of stuff we just can't agree. I am trying to share a little as I can from my personal life and try to have the "drank the company's Coolaid" attitude with him, because that's how much different we are. I recently found out he's even an anti-vaxxer. I hope they replace him soon.

I just have to say, as an observer of this thread, that I am extremely grateful not to be any of you. Some dystopian shit going on in here.
I understand not speaking about sex, politics and religion. But replies in this thread give me the idea that people are also hiding their family life, Netflix queue and sports teams. You're right, this is some dystopian nightmare.
Agree, there's so many people here thinking that the only acceptable way to behave is having a "work persona" devoid of anything personal. Horrible way to spend at least 40 hours a week of your life.
Yes and no.

I am myself, my mannerisms, my mode of communication, the way I treat others, are all “me”.

But I rarely talk about anything I value, because my values are more traditional and classical, and tech companies values are what is popular.

It doesn’t bother me that my values are different, what bothers me is how you can loudly proclaim your opinions provided they’re in line with the status quo, but you will be cancelled if you hold a differing opinion, even if your differing opinion doesn’t cause you treat others badly.

At My current, more progressive, work place, I would be labeled as a conservative, yet at my previous more conservative work place, I was thought liberal. The difference was at my previous place it was ok to have and share differing opinions.

Not really. I'm pretty far on the auth-left side of the political compass and have to really temper my opinions to be acceptable in a corporate environment.
Kinda-sorta. My company has quite liberal sort of values and so do I, so I don't really feel like I have to hold my tongue in that respect. Although any of that kind of talk was usually reserved for socials/drinks/etc anyway.

But you know, work is work, what I do is intrinsically shaped by what my employer wants me to do and their goals so it's hard to say I'm spending that time "being myself" when the truth is I'm "being the company". I'm expected to be interested and engaged even when I'd much rather crawl back into bed. Even from a technical point of view I'd much rather be putting together prototypes using some language I'm barely familiar with than maintaining working codebases because that's more fun, but is obviously not that commercially useful.

At least with WFH I don't have to act some way I'm not feeling for 8 hours straight every working day, there are usually breaks in-between calls and I can code with a scowl, so that helps with the sense that I have ownership over myself during work hours.

Sure, in a constrained sense at least. There are things I wouldn't do/say because I don't especially want to do/say them in a professional context. But I seldom, if ever, feel that I need to act in a truly inauthentic way at work.

A little bit of false enthusiasm now and then? Sure, it makes it easier to get through the day. In both a professional and personal context.

Never. In fact you should never show your whole self in the workplace.

This isn’t even about national politics or about being fake, but about keeping work and personal life separate; and treating your job for what it is and not confusing it for what it isn’t.

A workplace that doesn’t honor this is one that you should leave.

That also doesn’t mean bad actors or companies should be left off the hook or given a free pass, but never confuse your colleagues as friends.