Ask HN: How do you manage or avoid meltdowns?
Anyway. The point of the matter is that I crack and meltdown quite often. And that makes my problems multiply because I then have to deal with apologies etc.
How do you deal with meltdowns? How do you calm yourself down? I'm not talking about being a Buddha (I'm as far away from that as I could be unfortunately). I'm talking about doing the bare minimum so that I don't cause myself and the people around me extra problems.
For the most part I have managed to keep this away from my (shitty) job so it has not affected my (dead in the water) career. But it is taking a toll on my family relations and I hate me for that.
No phychotherapy please. I won't go near their arrogance.
Any practical tips that work on you are highly appreciated.
For context I'm 45 yrs old, male, relatively new dad in a backwater EU country.
TIA
95 comments
[ 954 ms ] story [ 355 ms ] threadNo professional psychotherapist can afford to be arrogant, you might have gotten unlucky with your experience so far. They are equipped to answer exactly such questions. Psychodynamic approaches, for example, are something you might want to look into.
My dad's cardiologist is one of the best doctors I've ever encountered. His online ratings are all over the place and MOST of the low ranking patients were calling him "arrogant" and "terrible bedside manner".
The kid's probably more arrogant than the old man, too. But he's got to earn it.
But that is orthogonal to my point, a lot of doctors, lawyers, etc. are not any more arrogant than the average person; they just get labelled that way because people don't like being told they are wrong or getting bad news.
Sometimes I punch my desk - I would not advise this unless you have a sturdy one, but it is very cathartic.
- Daily cardio / lifting, alternating between them (first thing I do in the morning)
- Minimise caffeine intake
- Reminding myself that nobody is going to die even if I completely mess up everything
- Regular sleep schedule (new dad, so I imagine this is not going to be applicable)
Good luck!
It's called fucking professionalism. So stop listening to the whining cohort and realize it's just doing a goddamn job.
Okay, that's my pitch to people who grew up in a military family.
On the other hand, consider yourself the bright spot in the day for everyone who has no fucking clue what's going on.
And it's 2022. I just raised my hourly rate from $200 to $250. Do the same. And find some good ways to spend that good energy you still have, racing in the street or playing in a band or throwing paint at a wall.
One day I realized.. ahem. Sorry. Today I woke up and reminded myself . Ahem. Every fucking day I work on a customer's code I need to remember it's a job, I'm doing it for the fucking money. Not to be a saint. Wake up. Set four hours. Make money. Write good code. Done? Great. Now I hope you know by now what you're going to do with the rest of your day. What is it?
It's soooo easy to slip into the hole where we feel like we finished the work and the day is done. Let's get a pizza and watch netflix. That, my friend, is a death spiral.
Just treat the work like work. [edit here:] Everyone I've ever worked for had no capacity to do what I do, but those motherfuckers went above and beyond to make me feel like my moral obligation and main mission in life was to solve their problems while they partied and slept.
Your main problem sounds like you don't know how to enjoy the other 16 hours of your day.
I kind of developed that after hearing "people never remember what you say or do, people remember how you made them feel". Even the cop who pulls me over gets a smile and a "good morning".
I think that if just half of people did this, we would live in such a nicer world. This is the definition of civilization that I like best.
I love doing end-user customer service. I'm incredibly thankful for being shielded from it 99% of the time, and I'd run off into the woods if I wasn't. But I love when I get to talk to them and just walk them through something. It's like any interaction that gives me some thought. I have MAGA neighbors. I have antifa neighbors. (I live in Portland, so). You get to a point where everyone has the same problems, and the only way you can solve them is by being civil with one another. That is civilization.
[edit] Just to reply to the spirit of what you said... there's something very reassuring about just being civil and decent. Pleasant, clear, logical, respectful or doubtful of authority; making yourself a person with other people. This is the ultimate power we all have that can't be taken away by any state or any authority. Civilizing the savages has taken on other connotations, but you can't beat civility. Politesse.
I live amongst people who would slaughter me before knowing me, and in the vast majority of cases I make friends of them. I'm careful of course, but I feel that it is a risk that is important to take. Perhaps the desire to spread peace is a cultural trait that we don't even realize. In fact our everyday greeting is literally "peace".
This whole internet of naifs is going towards a place where they're willing to slaughter before knowing each other, so it's helpful to have real world experience how to make friends.
If you see what I mean.
Also, being a new parent is inherently stressful. It helps to be aware of that to give some perspective.
Career-wise, think about what kinds of things related to your line of work you actually enjoy doing, don't enjoy doing, and utterly hate doing. There are different kinds of companies and work cultures that increase or decrease these things. Right now is a good time for remote workers, so you have more choice than you did a year ago. Figure out what areas of work will maximise what you like and minimise what you hate, then think carefully about what kinds of interview questions you can ask a potential employer to see what you can realistically expect if you worked there. It's perfectly fine to say "Sorry, we won't be a good match" and move on. Just like in relationships, there are all kinds.
Like OP, there is something wrong with my daily life and I am the only person responsible of making it better. Phrases like "everything will be all right, anyway" and "you deserve more" are not driving me towards finding and applying the necessary changes to get my life back, quite the opposite.
I had one which changed job, and the replacement just did not work. I have a good friend who's finally found one, after trying five others over the span of several years. I've got some other friends who never found one that worked for them and thus never got anything out of it.
Of course, one which works for me might not work for you, it's highly individual and might even be case-specific.
Uh, that's not therapy - sounds like you've been to some "cheap" expensive therapy mate...
"you are perfect, everyone is" - this is a lie;
"there is nothing wrong with you" - another lie;
"you are very brave" - this could be a lie, most likely is;
- An SSRI treatment, because generalized anxiety doesn't usually go away on its own.
- Heavy schedule compartimentalization.
- At least a moderate level of daily physical activity.
- 9 hours of sleep.
- Minimize caffeine & alcohol intake.
This is mostly in order:
1. No drugs. Booze and pot need to be sidelined while dealing with this. Minimization or stopping caffeine if possible. Don't quite smoking right now.
2. Exercise. Do what you like that can get you into the zone. Try and do it without external inputs like podcasts etc. Let the exercise take over your brain. 3 days a week is minimum. There is a good chance you will want to do more.
3. Sleep. Full sleep for whatever it is for you. I can't sleep 9 hours but 8 is good. This is a personal variable, but you should feel good when you wake up.
4. Talk to a friend. Hangout or call a friend that is low maintenance. You may or may not talk about what's challenging you. Having someone to go back and forth with is a great to get you back to who you are and will give you some perspective directly or indirectly.
5. See someone professionally that can help. There is a lot of science based approaches out there that aren't too far out or just sitting on a couch spending money. Find a councillor that you can say "I want to stop or reduce my meltdowns" and give them a few sessions to do so. It shouldn't be forever. The sessions should be basic and practical. Understanding how your adrenal gland pumps you up just before you have a meltdown is really helpful. How to get out of your head and back to reality - you aren't under mortal danger like your mind is telling you and your body is now in full flight or fight mode. How to you recognize this before it happens and make sure that when it does you have a process to get through it without melting down. It works pretty well within a few sessions.
I've had a lot of good feedback from my colleagues. 1-3 does it for a lot of people. The fact that we are talking in some ways takes it to 4. 5 is a hard step to take as there is a lot of stigma around it, but if you are melting down at work or with your family it is worth it. Work meltdowns suggest that this has gotten out of control.
I suggest to anyone that has been through this with some success to reach out to anyone that they see having similar issues. This has been a real positive as a manager having my own experience to share.
I want to add to this a very honest observation:
For many people this is the best path. I see a lot of people often saying they are unnecessary, that natural is best or that they create more problems. But I've realized, for me at least, they are totally necessary. I went off them for about 8 years, thinking natural really is best. All I have to show for it is a lot of white hair from excessive stress. I recently decided to try them again and man for the first time in years I just feel normal. No longer is anxiety the dominating emotion in my head. It's certainly still there-- but I can operate like those around me. I don't get over stressed as easily, and conversations come naturally to me. YMMV but it's worth a shot for some
This is probably a core reason for your problem. I would bet that you find it difficult to adapt to the new normal. You now have less time to yourself and many more constraints to deal with. That's just super stressful. Here's my advice as a not-so-new father:
1. It's OK to be stressed. Don't stress out over your stress level (Meta Stress).
2. Things will get better.
3. Take some you-time. Do whatever helps you. Cardio is an excellent idea, like jogging through brisk winter air. But make sure to communicate and coordinate this time with your SO.
4. Get your priorities straight. Once I made the conscious decision that kids are more important than work, I could let go of work projects easily when a child became sick and needed care. Communicate this openly with coworkers and bosses.
5. Plan for vacations and other breaks auch that you have one every two months. For instance, maybe the kid(s) likes a weekend with the grandparents? Or the family goes to the zoo every once in a while? This will help to reset your stress level.
That dedicated time we have where we do what we need just for us has turned our year around; I run 5km a day, she goes to the gym to lift weights 3x a week. It took adjustment in our schedules and the time in the day is tight, but it’s oh so worth it.
We have many other priorities, like renovating the garage or reorganizing the living room, but we’ve decided that’s lower on the priority — with two young kids 2021 was not just about survival, but for us as a family to thrive.
Wishing OP the best!
Watch some youtube videos to learn something.
if doing something causes problems, don’t repeat it.
Don’t fight reality, get better at predicting it.
There are vast resources available from books to many good youtube videos.
Getting a formal assessment is fairly expensive but screening tests are free.
https://novopsych.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Autism-S...
https://novopsych.com.au/assessments/diagnosis/autism-spectr...
https://www.aspietests.org/userdetails.php?target=raads/inde...
Mostly it is about managing your levels of stress and knowing your limits. And lots of good strategies rather than therapy. One thing I realized is I need a lot more sleep than I had been getting. And I need to ration social 'work' (that's how it feels - hard work).
Autistic people are very prone to trauma - basically they are hyperspensitive to many stiumuli and emotions - so there may be residual trauma to deal with. But there are multiple ways to do that.
a) Lifting heavy weights, either at home or gym.
b) Reading
c) Any hobby that you find fulfilling, if you have time. If you don't just enjoy every second you have with your baby.
It takes a lot of effort. There's no magic fix like sleeping more or going for a run. They make me feel a bit better, but the problem is still there.
[1] My partner is a therapist (not an arrogant one though), and she says what I do is 'catastrophizing behavior', where I look for things to worry about. She's entirely right. My issue is 100% not fixed but it's not a problem any more. If anything it actually makes me a much better developer.
- Go to the doctor and check for Diabetes, Thyroid and blood pressure. Especially diabetes can cause those meltdowns.
- Sport obviously
- Time for me. You need to have free time outside of whatever you are doing now. Go for a walk or a cafe and have some downtime.
- Supplements. For me personally I'm seeing good results with taking Ashwagandha
- Finally and this is the most important one: you need to be able to predict when the meltdown will happen. Meaning, with time you need to be able to see it coming and do something before it happens. Don't let things pile up to the point of a meldown, address them as they happen.
1) You have to recognize that you're nearing red zone, i.e. notice the physical effects of the adrenaline rush. If you can't consciously notice it happening and intervene, then you're just a meat puppet to your emotional system. You may notice that it causes you to breathe rapidly, for example. Don't worry about step 2 until you've got this part down.
2) Once you can notice it, you have to do the mental gymnastics in the moment to convince yourself that you're not going to do anybody any favors by indulging your emotion. If you've resolved ahead of time that you want to get on top of it, that's a good start; in the moment you need to remember that resolution and stick to it.
3) Be aware that you're possibly not going to be able to calm down instantly (though a physical trick that helps is to take two or three deep breaths through the nose). In a situation like this, you'll have chemicals running through your blood that keep wanting to short circuit your rational thinking. Either try to change the subject, propose to "agree to disagree" for now until you can think about it some more in your own time, or if possible try to end the conversation politely. It'll be very hard to continue to keep talking calmly about the subject that triggered you if you've got a strong emotional response (although with practice it is doable.) You can also discuss ahead of time with your spouse/partner, tell him/her that you're working on this, and that sometimes you'd like their permission to put conversations on hold until you're in a better frame of mind - just don't abuse their willingness, and make sure not to use it as an excuse for avoiding difficult topics.
I work for a great company, and we have a prime directive.
~"We believe that our coworkers have done the best they could, given the knowledge they had at the time and the situation."
So suggestion: Give your team more credit. Quit working where you work.
- Cardio: Going out for a walk, running, walking the little one, preferably while sleeping so it adds no stress to the walking; You have to get the adrenalin out of your system and cardio is the most efficient way to do this
- medical check-up: especially the hormone stuff
- self-monitoring: Leave situations before you meltdown. Do not answer immediately when you see a meltdown coming or feel that you are already there, if nothing else works, just leave the room.
- Talk this through with your family, be transparent on your wish to "get better" again; show commitment. To me it is the biggest motivation that I want to be at least a mediocre parent, not the kind hated by their ex and children.
- Some kind of mentoring/personal trainer/psychology helps, because it adds that sweet third-person perspective. You are asking complete strangers for help already, so think about what kind of assistance you are willing to accept. A friend of mine is in a self-help group, I am quite content with psychoanalysis though it is baby steps and that does not go well with my impatience :-) Not sure if your rejection of psycho* is not already part of the problem, nobody I met in the mental health sector was arrogant, but your milage may vary.
- Think about your job and whether it is worth risking your family. Apply at some other company (but remember that there is no company where all is good) that you can identify with more or just for a change of scenery. Become a carpenter. Do not allow yourself to sulk in some 'I am the victim' mindset even if you are a victim, it will not get you anywhere. - read this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/chi-schmich-sunscreen...
Disclaimer: I am still melting down several several times of the week, and there are times when I cannot imagine to go for another minute. But I do.