Ask HN: How do you manage or avoid meltdowns?

62 points by solididiot ↗ HN
Being a SW Eng I spent hours on a chair. In home-office. COVID lockdowns made this worse. Added extra stress due to bad future outlook and a lack of direction in my career plus dozens of other blockers that navigating gets more difficult as I grow older.

Anyway. The point of the matter is that I crack and meltdown quite often. And that makes my problems multiply because I then have to deal with apologies etc.

How do you deal with meltdowns? How do you calm yourself down? I'm not talking about being a Buddha (I'm as far away from that as I could be unfortunately). I'm talking about doing the bare minimum so that I don't cause myself and the people around me extra problems.

For the most part I have managed to keep this away from my (shitty) job so it has not affected my (dead in the water) career. But it is taking a toll on my family relations and I hate me for that.

No phychotherapy please. I won't go near their arrogance.

Any practical tips that work on you are highly appreciated.

For context I'm 45 yrs old, male, relatively new dad in a backwater EU country.

TIA

95 comments

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This is normal. You are becoming a senior developer. Congratulations on making it this far.
> No phychotherapy please. I won't go near their arrogance.

No professional psychotherapist can afford to be arrogant, you might have gotten unlucky with your experience so far. They are equipped to answer exactly such questions. Psychodynamic approaches, for example, are something you might want to look into.

Yup, arrogance is a symptom of incompetency. People are loudest about the things they are unsure about. We see it all the time in our line of work - beginners are the most arrogant. But it applies to doctors, lawyers, and psychotherapists too.
Yes, you will encounter arrogance in all those professions. Just as often a professional will be called "arrogant" for telling us what we don't want to hear.

My dad's cardiologist is one of the best doctors I've ever encountered. His online ratings are all over the place and MOST of the low ranking patients were calling him "arrogant" and "terrible bedside manner".

There are a lot of great diagnosticians who are lousy human beings. If I need an x-ray I'll see that guy. If I'm going under a scalpel I'd rather have a kid who gives a shit and still values life.

The kid's probably more arrogant than the old man, too. But he's got to earn it.

Some of the best surgeons, the ones with the best patient outcomes, are high functioning sociopaths.

But that is orthogonal to my point, a lot of doctors, lawyers, etc. are not any more arrogant than the average person; they just get labelled that way because people don't like being told they are wrong or getting bad news.

I'm not sure those people are wrong to think they're dealing with arrogance. There are lots of ways of delivering bad news. And - unlike in medicine - for every lawyer who delivers bad news, there's another one delivering good news. Coming from a family of lawyers, and growing up knowing dozens of them, I think I've yet to meet one who wasn't extremely arrogant, whatever kind of news they were delivering. And let's not even mention how they order sushi.
And let's not forget, it also applies to patients as well.
I turn the mic off and scream several times a day when the stupidity gets too strong.

Sometimes I punch my desk - I would not advise this unless you have a sturdy one, but it is very cathartic.

I have a coworker who does exactly that. I know it because he is really bad at setting the mute mode on zoom.
Sorry but I got a proper laugh from this comment
I cannot speak for you, but what works for me:

- Daily cardio / lifting, alternating between them (first thing I do in the morning)

- Minimise caffeine intake

- Reminding myself that nobody is going to die even if I completely mess up everything

- Regular sleep schedule (new dad, so I imagine this is not going to be applicable)

Good luck!

Having been here a lot of times.. Fuck the client or the boss, it's important to me that I put my best work forward. Even if it makes no difference to me financially. Even if their stupid company will go down in flames. Even if I don't want to wake up tomorrow and look at their piece of shit online store / dumbass genZ insta-sales emails / customer can't click button on iphone / server collapsed because Amazon EC2 West-1 .........

It's called fucking professionalism. So stop listening to the whining cohort and realize it's just doing a goddamn job.

Okay, that's my pitch to people who grew up in a military family.

On the other hand, consider yourself the bright spot in the day for everyone who has no fucking clue what's going on.

And it's 2022. I just raised my hourly rate from $200 to $250. Do the same. And find some good ways to spend that good energy you still have, racing in the street or playing in a band or throwing paint at a wall.

One day I realized.. ahem. Sorry. Today I woke up and reminded myself . Ahem. Every fucking day I work on a customer's code I need to remember it's a job, I'm doing it for the fucking money. Not to be a saint. Wake up. Set four hours. Make money. Write good code. Done? Great. Now I hope you know by now what you're going to do with the rest of your day. What is it?

It's soooo easy to slip into the hole where we feel like we finished the work and the day is done. Let's get a pizza and watch netflix. That, my friend, is a death spiral.

Just treat the work like work. [edit here:] Everyone I've ever worked for had no capacity to do what I do, but those motherfuckers went above and beyond to make me feel like my moral obligation and main mission in life was to solve their problems while they partied and slept.

Your main problem sounds like you don't know how to enjoy the other 16 hours of your day.

I'd like to stress this:

  > On the other hand, consider yourself the bright spot in
  > the day for everyone who has no fucking clue what's going on.
You've put into words the way I live. No matter how upset or angry I am, no matter how much traffic or rain was on my drive, no matter how much code was lost, I try to be the thing that people in my life look forward to. Always make other people feel better after talking to you.

I kind of developed that after hearing "people never remember what you say or do, people remember how you made them feel". Even the cop who pulls me over gets a smile and a "good morning".

I think that if just half of people did this, we would live in such a nicer world. This is the definition of civilization that I like best.

Never thought that would be a pull quote, but now that you mention it, you can put it on my tombstone. Isn't that the best part of the day?

I love doing end-user customer service. I'm incredibly thankful for being shielded from it 99% of the time, and I'd run off into the woods if I wasn't. But I love when I get to talk to them and just walk them through something. It's like any interaction that gives me some thought. I have MAGA neighbors. I have antifa neighbors. (I live in Portland, so). You get to a point where everyone has the same problems, and the only way you can solve them is by being civil with one another. That is civilization.

[edit] Just to reply to the spirit of what you said... there's something very reassuring about just being civil and decent. Pleasant, clear, logical, respectful or doubtful of authority; making yourself a person with other people. This is the ultimate power we all have that can't be taken away by any state or any authority. Civilizing the savages has taken on other connotations, but you can't beat civility. Politesse.

After looking you up, I wonder how much of this particular attitude is related to being Jewish. I sometimes feel like I'm refracting my family's misfortune in the Holocaust by making myself either unavoidably useful and friendly, or else unassailably logical. Maybe I tip too well.
Possibly.

I live amongst people who would slaughter me before knowing me, and in the vast majority of cases I make friends of them. I'm careful of course, but I feel that it is a risk that is important to take. Perhaps the desire to spread peace is a cultural trait that we don't even realize. In fact our everyday greeting is literally "peace".

heh. I've lived in Spain too. j/k. sort of. But actually I did live in Spain, and some of my best friends were Shia, Sunni and Druze, and our discussions over drinks would terrify the hell out of the Spanish or English seated nearby. And then we'd go get a shawarma. This is an attitude of making yourself relatable and human towards making friends and knowing people intimately - it's as a form of self defense, or just realism - that I seem preprogrammed to do. It's a nice part of my day, too. My grandfather never owned a gun. He had talked and romanced his way out of too many deadly situations. He believed being human to others was the only way to survive.

This whole internet of naifs is going towards a place where they're willing to slaughter before knowing each other, so it's helpful to have real world experience how to make friends.

Heh... Aleikum salaam!

If you see what I mean.

Biologically, a big thing is exercise. Get plenty of it, because it helps regulate mood (a lot). Longish walks or runs also help you take a time-out, which is important from time to time. Sunlight might also play a factor depending on how susceptible you are.

Also, being a new parent is inherently stressful. It helps to be aware of that to give some perspective.

Career-wise, think about what kinds of things related to your line of work you actually enjoy doing, don't enjoy doing, and utterly hate doing. There are different kinds of companies and work cultures that increase or decrease these things. Right now is a good time for remote workers, so you have more choice than you did a year ago. Figure out what areas of work will maximise what you like and minimise what you hate, then think carefully about what kinds of interview questions you can ask a potential employer to see what you can realistically expect if you worked there. It's perfectly fine to say "Sorry, we won't be a good match" and move on. Just like in relationships, there are all kinds.

Not sure why you want to avoid psychotherapy. Maybe look into Gestalt therapy. Find a therapist that will help you to solve your problems, and not one that is arrogant.
Paying 15% of net income for weekly therapy sessions only to hear lameness like "you are perfect, everyone is", "there is nothing wrong with you", "you are very brave" and to discuss the news is not what I would consider responsible use for money.

Like OP, there is something wrong with my daily life and I am the only person responsible of making it better. Phrases like "everything will be all right, anyway" and "you deserve more" are not driving me towards finding and applying the necessary changes to get my life back, quite the opposite.

Not sure whether you've ever done therapy, but I have and I've had an excellent experience with it. I don't think many therapists do therapy by spouting some superficial platitudes at the client.
120 sessions. I did not develop enough agency to react to the fact we did not have a plan or a goal during the last 100.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But sounds like maybe your therapist wasn't that great.
Based on my own experiences and of those close to me, I'd say going to a therapist which works can indeed be very, very helpful. The problem is finding a therapist that works for you.

I had one which changed job, and the replacement just did not work. I have a good friend who's finally found one, after trying five others over the span of several years. I've got some other friends who never found one that worked for them and thus never got anything out of it.

Of course, one which works for me might not work for you, it's highly individual and might even be case-specific.

>Paying 15% of net income for weekly therapy sessions only to hear lameness like "you are perfect, everyone is", "there is nothing wrong with you", "you are very brave" and to discuss the news is not what I would consider responsible use for money.

Uh, that's not therapy - sounds like you've been to some "cheap" expensive therapy mate...

"you are perfect, everyone is" - this is a lie;

"there is nothing wrong with you" - another lie;

"you are very brave" - this could be a lie, most likely is;

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Here's what works for me :

- An SSRI treatment, because generalized anxiety doesn't usually go away on its own.

- Heavy schedule compartimentalization.

- At least a moderate level of daily physical activity.

- 9 hours of sleep.

- Minimize caffeine & alcohol intake.

I've dealt with this myself and with my peers over the years. I see a lot of similar statements and will tag on to npwr's since it is close to what I do.

This is mostly in order:

1. No drugs. Booze and pot need to be sidelined while dealing with this. Minimization or stopping caffeine if possible. Don't quite smoking right now.

2. Exercise. Do what you like that can get you into the zone. Try and do it without external inputs like podcasts etc. Let the exercise take over your brain. 3 days a week is minimum. There is a good chance you will want to do more.

3. Sleep. Full sleep for whatever it is for you. I can't sleep 9 hours but 8 is good. This is a personal variable, but you should feel good when you wake up.

4. Talk to a friend. Hangout or call a friend that is low maintenance. You may or may not talk about what's challenging you. Having someone to go back and forth with is a great to get you back to who you are and will give you some perspective directly or indirectly.

5. See someone professionally that can help. There is a lot of science based approaches out there that aren't too far out or just sitting on a couch spending money. Find a councillor that you can say "I want to stop or reduce my meltdowns" and give them a few sessions to do so. It shouldn't be forever. The sessions should be basic and practical. Understanding how your adrenal gland pumps you up just before you have a meltdown is really helpful. How to get out of your head and back to reality - you aren't under mortal danger like your mind is telling you and your body is now in full flight or fight mode. How to you recognize this before it happens and make sure that when it does you have a process to get through it without melting down. It works pretty well within a few sessions.

I've had a lot of good feedback from my colleagues. 1-3 does it for a lot of people. The fact that we are talking in some ways takes it to 4. 5 is a hard step to take as there is a lot of stigma around it, but if you are melting down at work or with your family it is worth it. Work meltdowns suggest that this has gotten out of control.

I suggest to anyone that has been through this with some success to reach out to anyone that they see having similar issues. This has been a real positive as a manager having my own experience to share.

>- An SSRI treatment, because generalized anxiety doesn't usually go away on its own.

I want to add to this a very honest observation:

For many people this is the best path. I see a lot of people often saying they are unnecessary, that natural is best or that they create more problems. But I've realized, for me at least, they are totally necessary. I went off them for about 8 years, thinking natural really is best. All I have to show for it is a lot of white hair from excessive stress. I recently decided to try them again and man for the first time in years I just feel normal. No longer is anxiety the dominating emotion in my head. It's certainly still there-- but I can operate like those around me. I don't get over stressed as easily, and conversations come naturally to me. YMMV but it's worth a shot for some

> relatively new dad

This is probably a core reason for your problem. I would bet that you find it difficult to adapt to the new normal. You now have less time to yourself and many more constraints to deal with. That's just super stressful. Here's my advice as a not-so-new father:

1. It's OK to be stressed. Don't stress out over your stress level (Meta Stress).

2. Things will get better.

3. Take some you-time. Do whatever helps you. Cardio is an excellent idea, like jogging through brisk winter air. But make sure to communicate and coordinate this time with your SO.

4. Get your priorities straight. Once I made the conscious decision that kids are more important than work, I could let go of work projects easily when a child became sick and needed care. Communicate this openly with coworkers and bosses.

5. Plan for vacations and other breaks auch that you have one every two months. For instance, maybe the kid(s) likes a weekend with the grandparents? Or the family goes to the zoo every once in a while? This will help to reset your stress level.

Yes. Being a new parent — exacerbated by this current normal — is incredibly difficult. My wife and I have spent the past year focusing much of our energy on ourselves (after the kids, work, etc)

That dedicated time we have where we do what we need just for us has turned our year around; I run 5km a day, she goes to the gym to lift weights 3x a week. It took adjustment in our schedules and the time in the day is tight, but it’s oh so worth it.

We have many other priorities, like renovating the garage or reorganizing the living room, but we’ve decided that’s lower on the priority — with two young kids 2021 was not just about survival, but for us as a family to thrive.

Wishing OP the best!

Go for a 5-10 minute walk every time you have to pee.

Watch some youtube videos to learn something.

if doing something causes problems, don’t repeat it.

Don’t fight reality, get better at predicting it.

> if doing something causes problems, don’t repeat it. I've quit most of it but e.g. I cannot quit driving.
Maybe you can! Take an uber every now and then instead of driving yourself. Let somebody else deal with the traffic.
For me: stay away from alcohol, caffeine and other psychoactives. These tend to ruin my ability to handle stress. Especially caffeine tends to make me emotionally volatile.
OP probably smokes cigarettes like a chimney. Sadly quitting them would make him rage even more.
Meltdowns are a common feature of the lives of Autistic people.

There are vast resources available from books to many good youtube videos.

Getting a formal assessment is fairly expensive but screening tests are free.

https://novopsych.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Autism-S...

https://novopsych.com.au/assessments/diagnosis/autism-spectr...

https://www.aspietests.org/userdetails.php?target=raads/inde...

Mostly it is about managing your levels of stress and knowing your limits. And lots of good strategies rather than therapy. One thing I realized is I need a lot more sleep than I had been getting. And I need to ration social 'work' (that's how it feels - hard work).

Autistic people are very prone to trauma - basically they are hyperspensitive to many stiumuli and emotions - so there may be residual trauma to deal with. But there are multiple ways to do that.

>Any practical tips that work on you are highly appreciated.

a) Lifting heavy weights, either at home or gym.

b) Reading

c) Any hobby that you find fulfilling, if you have time. If you don't just enjoy every second you have with your baby.

Yes. I am not the fittest person, but I lift weights and read books. Both have definitely helped keep me sane over the past 2 years. I don't have a family and don't intend to though, so I have a lot more free time and less general stress levels.
I'm going to (re)start sailing. Last time it made things worse though - some of the least professional people I've seen in my life make a living as sailing instructors. I hope I'll find a more organised situation in the new club.
I was lucky enough to recognize similar behavior in myself a long time ago, and I 'fixed'[1] it by getting a lot more organized, and by looking for potential problems ahead of time so I can route around them. I'm a huge fan of things like "pre-mortem" meetings to work out where blockers might occur as early as possible and mitigate the issues before they're blockers.

It takes a lot of effort. There's no magic fix like sleeping more or going for a run. They make me feel a bit better, but the problem is still there.

[1] My partner is a therapist (not an arrogant one though), and she says what I do is 'catastrophizing behavior', where I look for things to worry about. She's entirely right. My issue is 100% not fixed but it's not a problem any more. If anything it actually makes me a much better developer.

New dad is really hard. For me It was really difficult to adapt. It really gets better when your kid starts to communicate. 1 to 2yo is really hard. From 3 to 4yo, I’m now less stressed than before being a dad. But that’s because a 4yo boy is really damn cool to live with and pretty autonomous for a lot of basic things.
A few things:

- Go to the doctor and check for Diabetes, Thyroid and blood pressure. Especially diabetes can cause those meltdowns.

- Sport obviously

- Time for me. You need to have free time outside of whatever you are doing now. Go for a walk or a cafe and have some downtime.

- Supplements. For me personally I'm seeing good results with taking Ashwagandha

- Finally and this is the most important one: you need to be able to predict when the meltdown will happen. Meaning, with time you need to be able to see it coming and do something before it happens. Don't let things pile up to the point of a meldown, address them as they happen.

Exercise, play computer games, minimise Linux usage.
There are many classes of introverts. One of the variations of introverts is a group that protects others from themselves. Think Scrooge. Keep your distance until you know how to manage.
a lot of good advice on here, but to consume any of it you need to Conquer your ego first. Accept you are not in control and learn to go with the flow, lower expectations and desires, learn equanimity, read the gita
Being healthy helps, but assuming you are tired/stressed, there's still ways to stay in control.

1) You have to recognize that you're nearing red zone, i.e. notice the physical effects of the adrenaline rush. If you can't consciously notice it happening and intervene, then you're just a meat puppet to your emotional system. You may notice that it causes you to breathe rapidly, for example. Don't worry about step 2 until you've got this part down.

2) Once you can notice it, you have to do the mental gymnastics in the moment to convince yourself that you're not going to do anybody any favors by indulging your emotion. If you've resolved ahead of time that you want to get on top of it, that's a good start; in the moment you need to remember that resolution and stick to it.

3) Be aware that you're possibly not going to be able to calm down instantly (though a physical trick that helps is to take two or three deep breaths through the nose). In a situation like this, you'll have chemicals running through your blood that keep wanting to short circuit your rational thinking. Either try to change the subject, propose to "agree to disagree" for now until you can think about it some more in your own time, or if possible try to end the conversation politely. It'll be very hard to continue to keep talking calmly about the subject that triggered you if you've got a strong emotional response (although with practice it is doable.) You can also discuss ahead of time with your spouse/partner, tell him/her that you're working on this, and that sometimes you'd like their permission to put conversations on hold until you're in a better frame of mind - just don't abuse their willingness, and make sure not to use it as an excuse for avoiding difficult topics.

Why on earth would you melt down? Been a dev for over 20 years and sure some days are a bit hard, but meltdown? Best guess, you own the code, you own the product, and people keep breaking it.

I work for a great company, and we have a prime directive.

~"We believe that our coworkers have done the best they could, given the knowledge they had at the time and the situation."

So suggestion: Give your team more credit. Quit working where you work.

Having a bad future outlook is the biggest one I'd say, if you feel confident you can land any fun job you want in the future then you can chose a job you actually like. Can be hard to do in the middle of being stressed out though. Linkedin and actually politely responding to the people there helps, I like self employed consultancies but it's not everyones cup or tea nor the least stressful option but at least I know if I'm not happy in a role I'll just fly away and do something else.
Some tips from somebody in a very similar situation (including the dead water)

- Cardio: Going out for a walk, running, walking the little one, preferably while sleeping so it adds no stress to the walking; You have to get the adrenalin out of your system and cardio is the most efficient way to do this

- medical check-up: especially the hormone stuff

- self-monitoring: Leave situations before you meltdown. Do not answer immediately when you see a meltdown coming or feel that you are already there, if nothing else works, just leave the room.

- Talk this through with your family, be transparent on your wish to "get better" again; show commitment. To me it is the biggest motivation that I want to be at least a mediocre parent, not the kind hated by their ex and children.

- Some kind of mentoring/personal trainer/psychology helps, because it adds that sweet third-person perspective. You are asking complete strangers for help already, so think about what kind of assistance you are willing to accept. A friend of mine is in a self-help group, I am quite content with psychoanalysis though it is baby steps and that does not go well with my impatience :-) Not sure if your rejection of psycho* is not already part of the problem, nobody I met in the mental health sector was arrogant, but your milage may vary.

- Think about your job and whether it is worth risking your family. Apply at some other company (but remember that there is no company where all is good) that you can identify with more or just for a change of scenery. Become a carpenter. Do not allow yourself to sulk in some 'I am the victim' mindset even if you are a victim, it will not get you anywhere. - read this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/chi-schmich-sunscreen...

Disclaimer: I am still melting down several several times of the week, and there are times when I cannot imagine to go for another minute. But I do.