Ask HN: How do you stick to projects?
I get passionate about a new language, framework, idea, project, or hobby for 1/2/3 months, then quit. Like clockwork.
For some concrete examples, I'm talking about things like: journaling, Arduino, web development, game dev, photography, writing fiction, tweeting, posting videos to YouTube, knowledge management, 'note-taking,' and more.
I used to think it was a question of burning out, so after a time I started limiting myself to 'x' hours a day. That did extend things slightly, but it wasn't a game changer.
I always seem to find an excuse as to why it's not worth continuing, right before actually accomplishing anything with the tool/skill in question. This applies to things both big, like getting into a whole new hobby, and small like trying some framework out.
As such, I spend many days feeling like the donkey in front of the stack of hay and the pail of water. I know that if I only stuck to one thing I would be much better off, but somehow, I don't.
This translates to my work as well, (at a startup) where my title is, quite literally, "generalist." I do stuff ranging from the software side all the way to marketing, sales, and everything in between. It's working for now but I get the feeling it's not viable for the long run.
I was wondering what the HN crowd thought about this, and if there is someone who managed to escape this trap. Thank you.
71 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 149 ms ] threadA part of me knows that I would get there if only I stuck to something, but another part fights hard to move on to the next 'greener' thing. Likely, like you said, I need to judge myself more kindly. Thank you! I suppose I should look at 'sticking to things' as a skill that can be learned, and one I should get better at.
Project #2 has an early prototype but there is no energy going into it because #1 is in a state of ferment.
#1 and #2 are prerequisites for the social bit of #3 which is frankly a moonshot.
Really I don’t add new projects often and I rarely let a project be motivated by ‘learn a new language’, ‘learn a new framework.’ Often those are just black holes. Go learn LISP or Haskell and you will either fail to learn it and still think the grass is greener over there or if you really do learn it you realize that ‘a monad like is like a burrito’ is the definition of insanity and there is a good reason why people dream of LISP and Haskell and really write C, COBOL, ColdFusion, JavaScript, whatever.
Sometimes my projects force me to learn a new tech and then I do it. I am looking forward to WebGL.
I'll take that to heart. Best of luck for your side projects.
For me, it's the feeling of accomplishment and pride that keeps me going. Regardless of the projects success, I'm proud that I've worked on something for so long and seeing it improve everyday is satisfying. There's nothing really else out there that gives me the feeling. If you ignore the success of the project (whether that's monetization or popularity.) and focus on the fun and beauty of improving something every day, it lets you go pretty far and long.
At the end of the day, you always have that project that you worked on and improved on every day. You can look back at it, show it to people, etc, and it almost seems bigger than you.
I still feel pretty bad about this and have a lot of guilt by not pursuing my projects, however I recently finished reading "Refuse To Choose" by Barbara Sher and it was a game changer, I still feel bad about it but I see now a different perspective and it has given me hope and made me realize that perhaps I'm not as broken as I thought I was.
The book also has a bunch of tools to help you pursue your goals even if you tend to rotate interests, that's another thing to like about it: not only is relatable but it's also very actionable.
> I always seem to find an excuse as to why it's not worth continuing, *right before actually accomplishing anything* [emphasis mine]
Certainly "diminishing returns" and "the skill of consistency" are real issues, but is it also possible there's something psychological going on here, like a fear of success?
This is something I've struggled with for all of my adult life – not with success per se, but with the way succeeding at something defines who/what you are. For instance, way back when I was a freshman in college, I poured myself into a big assignment with singular focus, and created something that got a lot of attention and notoriety. Important people took notice, I won some awards, and everyone started asking what I was working on next. It felt great and I did start another big project, but quickly found myself crushed under all these perceived expectations... And although I finished it, the result was underwhelming. I sort of dropped off everyone's radar at that point, and I'm not sure I've ever really recovered.
Like other commenters have said, you could have written your post verbatim about me. I get into things with an initial boost of motivation that often borders on obsession, go deep down the rabbit hole, cobble together some sort of proof of concept, and then suddenly lose interest, as you described, right at the point where I could actually produce something.
So how do we get past this? Figuring that out may be my life's work. But speaking of life, one of the best tips that has helped me is, "If you want to figure out what to do with your life, work backward from your death". Which is to say, think about what your obituary will say, how you want to impact people, what your legacy will be. Then think about what you need to learn/build/accomplish to get there, and work your way, step by step, back to now.
It's not a perfect system by any means, but it does help keep me "on track" when I feel like tossing something aside because I suddenly lose motivation. I tell myself, This is how I get to point B, which goes to C, to D, to E. And the fact that I want "point E" is very unlikely to change.
The other tip I'll leave you with is: Trust your past self. You from [some time ago] decided [activity] was worth doing. So it probably is! It may not feel like that now, but trust that Past You made the right call about things, even if they may not have known the full scope of what they were getting into. I often struggle to put in another hour/day on some project I don't really want to do anymore, because the alternative looks so enticing: Start something new! Dick around on Reddit! Watch someone else do the thing on YouTube! Etc. So I remind myself that, for me 1) life isn't about relaxing; it's about doing stuff, and 2) when I do relax, I enjoy it so much more if I feel like I've "earned" it.
Anyway best of luck, friend. At least you've already learned you're far from alone on this!
> This is something I've struggled with for all of my adult life – not with success per se, but with the way succeeding at something defines who/what you are.
This is very true, success often means change and we're not always comfortable with change.
I especially liked the part about trusting your old self, I think you managed to vocalize something I've been thinking for a while but that I could never form into words. I need to trust my old self, and trust that they chose that project for a reason. Now that I look back at it, whenever I find an excuse to stop the project, it's because I grow mistrustful of my old self.
Thank you again and best of luck to you as well!
My method of escaping this problem is to develop things iteratively and have a minimum viable product in mind. I'm going to release something that's 80% there very quickly, and its success, if there is any, will spur me on to do the last 20%.
I almost always stick to my projects because they're almost always motivated by a need rather than a fad. The need is resolved when project concludes.
I use proven and stable tools that I'm proficient in like C++/Java (depending on project needs) that allow me to focus on "getting it done" rather than learning the shiny new thing that'll be superseded soon.
My projects also tend to be deliberately smaller in scope, and I actively reject project ideas that are too big because that's when they tend to fizzle out.
> I almost always stick to my projects because they're almost always motivated by a need rather than a fad.
When looking back at my life I now see this pattern as well. The things you end up sticking to are the ones you 'need.' This is something worth taking a look at. Perhaps I should put myself in a position where I would 'need' to complete something, which then would spur me to get ore things done.
And definitely agree on keeping things small and on using the tools you know. These things sound 'obvious' but the temptation to use the latest fad is very strong. Thank you!
I've had more than a few projects which I did because I thought they would be interesting, but never did anything with; I learned XPath for parsing out character data from the FFXIV Lodestone: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1569460/
Wrote a giant Python class to handle it all, parsed out all the data you could want, even to the point of almost being late for a social event because I wanted to finish the part I was doing (because I knew I'd completely forget). Then saved it and completely forgot about it for eight years until today.
In my case, I try to look at learning a little about a lot as one of my best resources; I can process information really quickly and learn a lot, build proof of concepts, etc., and while I might never "finish" a project in an absolute sense, if my goal is to learn just enough to be useful (use it in another project, help someone else with a problem, give advice, etc.) then it's a win.
Maybe it's just time to reframe your idea of "success" with regards to processes.
At this point, at least in my career, the ability to learn new things is my ability and 'selling' point. While I do understand this has great benefits and that there's few people like this, one can't help but wonder what being a specialist would bring. I should perhaps be less harsh on myself and reframe what I've done so far as being 'succesful'... with processes. Thank you!
I can really relate to that. It's necessary to choose something that is not too far out of the comfort zone. Like choosing something novel is good but the majority of the libraries/tools should not be new. That's key to be able to both start and continue a long time. I'd make sure the first proof-of-concept can be done within a month, afterwards I'd either stop the project or continue. Otherwise it's just too frustrating.
Afterwards you can still build stuff on top. If the problem is open ended but has a reachable first plateau that provides a basic use case this can be a nice "rabbit hole project" that you can spend an infinite amount of time on if that's what you're looking for.
It's also a great idea to put a deadline for yourself, say, having a small MVP working within a month, and then that's that. Having something 'accomplished' in that timeframe could be neat, as in, it would likely spur me to keep developing it once I see it working. Thank you.
Every project I've ever done usually involves some sort of major technical hurdle I need to figure out. Once I do, I get that dopamine rush of achieving some sort of technical feat, and then promptly lose interest in fleshing out the project.
For example, I wanted to make a online PC clone of the arcade game Killer Queen (This was before KQ Black came out on PC and Switch), but that meant I needed to figure out how to maintain client/server synchronization while preventing cheating and accounting for latency. Once I figured it out, the next major step was basically fleshing out the game mechanics, as all my tech demo would do is allow people to move around the map and jump. I quickly went "nah, that's too much work" and haven't touched it.
It's really easy to see what other people are doing and think that it's interesting (because they tend to gloss over the boring bits), but once you get into the weeds of learning about it, realize that you really don't care that much.
Perhaps the real question is not so much how I can stick to things, but what I am _actually_ interested in. Thank you.
If you figure out how to do that, let me know. I wish I knew.
I found constantly deciding what to do was too exhausting.
I've gone through a lot of hobbies and projects, and each and every one of them has left me more capable. This is fine. I've also embarked on bigger projects that have taken years.
If you are working for some particular goal, sometimes you need to push yourself a bit too. It isn't always glamorous, you won't always feel inspired; that stuff does wear thin as you get farther along. Sometimes it is a slog, and those days just showing up and going through the motions is plenty. Sometimes breaks can be good too, but they have a habit of becoming indefinite so it's dangerous territory.
> This translates to my work as well, (at a startup) where my title is, quite literally, "generalist." I do stuff ranging from the software side all the way to marketing, sales, and everything in between. It's working for now but I get the feeling it's not viable for the long run.
It is absolutely fine to be a generalist. Having insight into all these areas makes you extremely versatile, and allows you to look at problems in ways no specialist could. Especially at a startup, this is an amazing skillset.
Project scope seems to be key. I often get into things with 'lofty' goals but I should be more realistic about what I want to get from them. That requires a bit of thinking and self-reflection which, I think, I might be skipping.
Acknowledging that not everything is glamorous is also another big part of it. When you just start something it's all new and shiny, but the bulk of the work is the unglamorous oiling of the gears and small improvements. I should internalize this fact.
> It is absolutely fine to be a generalist.
Thank you for stating that. It's rare (at least in my circles) to see generalists in startups so it's refreshing to see this.
> Project scope seems to be key. I often get into things with 'lofty' goals but I should be more realistic about what I want to get from them. That requires a bit of thinking and self-reflection which, I think, I might be skipping.
Dunno, I think lofty goals are fine, but you need a clear idea why you want to accomplish them.
Like if the reason you're learning some technology is because you want to learn it, and you find midway through that you don't want to learn it, then one of you must be wrong. Either you want to or you don't. It's fine to change your mind, you should be upfront about yourself about that. If it turns out you don't want to learn the thing, then you're wasting your time pushing yourself.
It's also good to have some clue how to get there.
When I built my search engine, I started by making a fairly simple prototype that consisted of a few components that each took a few weeks to get working. Having that made iterating on the design much easier. There's just no way I'd gotten where I am now if I didn't start where I did.
> Acknowledging that not everything is glamorous is also another big part of it. When you just start something it's all new and shiny, but the bulk of the work is the unglamorous oiling of the gears and small improvements. I should internalize this fact.
A lot of it may also be ensuring that you are doing the right things. I sometimes fall into the trap of just sort of tweaking things and not really making much of a difference.
I've found it helpful to get some distance away from a project and to just think about it for a while instead of forcing myself to work directly at it every day. I often come back with a huge amount of ideas that I no doubt would have never come up with if I was closer to the project.
It can be a one-line change to a text file, but I have to do it.
I should be taking advantage of this system more. Thank you.
Once that's done, I may gain some momentum and keep working, or I may not, but it's up to me, and the knowledge that I can always step back helps a lot.
Every day just need to work on my project for 10 minutes. If I can only manage 10 minutes, then that's fine...
The same goes for exercise, or anything you need to get done.
Every day I read my mission statement. Among other things it reminds me that "I repeatedly reject diminishing expectations and diminishing commitments, and that I will frequently refresh my positive expectations and commitments."
Then I read a list of my current projects noting progress, what my next step is, and why this is important. I don't always do this well, but this is what I strive to do.
I also think that you have unrealistic expectations. You seem to be trying too much. I know I have that problem. It hurts like ** to give up on things I would like to do, but I can't do them all.
Having a personal mission statement sounds interesting, and I'm glad to see it's been working out for you.
> It hurts like * to give up on things I would like to do, but I can't do them all.
Exactly. It's a sort of FOMO, there's definitely an element of that too.
If you're looking to up your skills in a new language or just "try" the new activity, then it makes sense that you would quit a few months later: you've acquired what you wanted.
If you wanted to keep going and pursue that activity for longer, I think it's a matter of not making the activity conditional on it "satisfying" you because as someone mentioned in another comment, you'll lose that initial dopamine hit once the activity becomes familiar (or boring): so the solution imo is to actively decide that whether you enjoy it or not, you will do X. And that's just a matter of learning to commit to something.
I used to be all over the place and chase new ideas over existing projects all the time, but it wasn't until I made a decision that OK I'm going to stick with this no matter what (at least for a period of time) that I started finding success. Now I think consistency is 80% of success.
Another thing I find useful to keep going is to find a way to keep getting small "wins" every now and then in the journey: the small wins make you feel like the past time invested was worth it and make my brain eager to continue as it anticipates the next one.
Not sure how to encourage the return of that hankering feeling, unfortunately, but I think the "no guilt" habit has been life-changing.
For example my Bluetooth Midi Pi project took about a few days to finish, was posted here and was well received.
My upcoming game, Project Haze has been in some development for about 18 months or so. I'll often take long breaks with it, my goals are vastly different since it's a commercial project.
Instead of pushing it to GitHub and sharing it, I have to get it on Itch or Steam, etc. If possible I'd love to take time off to focus on shipping the first version. Before this game I also shipped a small mobile game.
My best tip would be to start very small. Make the smallest possible project you can this weekend. You can always expand upon it later.
Unfortunately my diagnosis came at the very late age (40+) because whole life I thought it is just me being lazy and unfocused and seeking medical help / medication is the wrong answer to such problems - only to discover now that some of our brains are actually wired differently and it's not that we are being weak or unfocused but it's actually the wiring in our brain making us behave this way and you can freaking see this on an MRI too.
If you can't get an evaluation at least try to read this book called driven to distraction. One other book which I also read again and again is 'Finish' by Jon acuff. Has many useful tips which anyone can use.
I definitely agree getting an evaluation can't hurt, and the sooner the better. It could save me years of blaming myself for just the way my brain is wired. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.
Also, earlier this year, a newer version of Driven to Distraction was published, ADHD 2.0, written by the very same authors and featuring a lot promising new strategies backed by recent research. Definitely a recommended read.
(ETA I'm a woman, I realized this could read badly otherwise :)
Another time, I wrote a novel, and she read each chapter when I was done. I realized that if I didn't finish the novel, I would leave her hanging, and I didn't want to do that, so I finished it, even when I got 'mired in the middle'.
I guess my point is, try to involve someone you care about to hold you accountable, make a commitment to them to finish it.
It doesn't necessarily have to mean shipping something and getting actual users, just having someone that you arrange to regularly show your stuff to is a huge help. If I skip out on going to the gym, or break a regular show-and-tell on something I'm tinkering with, a friend will give me a gentle ribbing which gradually begins to escalate.
I've done a fair share of both. I think the perception accomplishment was just around the next turn (but you stopped too early) is often an illusion. Refer back to No Free Lunch; a general ability to know "how far" you are from a solution in problem-space you don't know would be a good start on the universally optimal search algorithm (which we agreed doesn't exist).
For a specific example, I've slaved away at game dev (in my free time not professionally) for more than two decades - and never released a game. I did an unreasonably deep dive developing some "technologies" which in the end turned out to be net negative contributors to my overall project.
It turns out there are ideas which you can sink years into only to exhaustively prove they don't work. There are others which appeared to work only because corporations threw many man-years at the task.
--- ON THE OTHER HAND ---
I think the amount of time and effort you put into each project over time has a compounding effect. That is, the person who stops before finding a solution doesn't know whether they stopped 15 minutes away from figuring it out or a lifetime away. As a result, they may be less inclined to believe they could solve the next one and put less effort there, and so on.
The person who puts in just a bit more effort (read: stubbornness) initially may find a serendipitous payoff and be more inclined to believe they have special luck or skill to solve the next problem. (Throughout this comment I've been using the word 'solution' to stand for both actual problem solving and the unspecified 'accomplishment' of the original post, as for the purposes of describing this as a search-optimization problem it's the same.)
A real-world example:
In college I built a single board computer on my own as a fun project. For a display I bought a portable DVD player (back when 7 inch LCDs were difficult to come by cheaply by other means) to harvest the screen from it, but the screen driver board from the cheap electronic device died shortly after the conversion.
If I had money or lab resources I might have just replaced the screen. Having already spent money I didn't have to buy this screen in the first place, and feeling deeply offended by the idea that a thing could just "break" and there's nothing to be done, I started troubleshooting in the dark.
I decoded part numbers and looked up chip datasheets. I noticed there was no power getting to the +5V pins of some chips, and had the audacious idea: what would happen if I force-fed power into the line? So I directly connected +5V power and got... nothing.
Long story short, I wasn't successful until I deduced the existence of and tracked down ALL of the tiny, individual switchmode power supply circuits randomly distributed across the board and soldered tiny wires to inject the missing voltage. In all I had to supply +3.3V, +5V, +12V, -12V, and 300VAC the latter of which I hacked in using a standalone CFL driver sold for PC case modding.
At no point did I ever identify a missing "turn power on" signal, a hierarchy of dependency between the power supply voltages, or any other eureka moment or root cause. The darn thing was just dead and stayed "mostly dead" almost up until I found and connected the last missing voltage. That is to say: I worked on this miserable thing every night for a week or two with little indication I was making progress (and not just silently frying more chips) until one night it all worked.
That's what I mean by my theory about how persistence can separate people into can/can't: at any point before tha...
The initial rush gives tons of dopamine, I need to find a way to persist even after the dopamine has worn off. Continuing a project has its own benefits and points of pleasure, I just need to start gaining an appreciation for those benefits and start getting pleasure from sticking to things. Thank you for the comment, I loved your story and appreciate you sharing it with me.
>how persistence can separate people into can/can't
Yep. This is the main catalyst for "success". Reminds me of the following quote by Calvin Coolidge;
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.”
>the kind of motivation for continuing something after the newness has worn off is maybe a different source
Quite right! I believe this source is mainly the "wish to improve (on some self determined scale) and progress day by day". Popular culture knows it as "Kaizen" or "Continuous Improvement" (all cultures have their own term for this).
If contradictions slip in, then scope becomes unlimited. Most businesses will eventually end up in a contradictory position - and this sets a definite limit on their lifespan. But you can avoid this fate in a side project by removing some of the assumed requirements of business and allowing it to be an obscure toy or a money-loser, instead setting other benchmarks for success.
If you want to try something just to see if you like it then it doesn't matter if you drop it any time. However, if you choose to commit to something then you must follow through and that requires discipline.