Ask HN: Remotely helping elderly parents?

64 points by a4f00 ↗ HN
I want to help my elderly parents with their computer, but as I live far away, this needs to be done remotely (general stuff, paying bills, etc..)

I've seen some solutions, such as Team viewer. However I'm bit concerned about the security side.

If you have same situation, what is your solution?

72 comments

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VNC Connect by RealVNC is good. So is remote desktop and/or zoom. I'm in the same situation.
Our solution was to buy them iPads. From 4-5 visits a year to none.

I’ve never used a chromebook, but I imagine it would work as well.

And with iOS >15.1 you can also use screen sharing if necessary.
I switched all the old people in my family to iOS/macOS almost 8 years ago or so, and tech support time went down to zero.

Troubleshooting is usually just turn it off and on or take it to Apple store and get it fixed or get a new one. The new screen sharing feature is nice too because now you can show them where items in the menus are and whatnot.

Almost all of my close family is on Apple as well.

For the others, unless they're really close or really desperate, I tell them that I haven't used Windows in many years (which is pretty much true, other than testing sites and so on to make sure they work in Windows browsers), so I can't really give them good advice.

There's one relative that uses Linux, but he doesn't generally need my help. Heh.

When the iPad appeared, I thought it'd be a great option for my elderly and non-computer-savvy father; but the whole touch-screen thing turns out not to work well for him. Shaky, rheumatic fingers too often trigger the wrong thing and throw him into some unexpected state; or a second (or third) finger inadvertently touches the screen and completely changes the behavior of the device.

I thought the direct-manipulation interface would work for him, but experience says that in his case a traditional mouse pointer and an explicit "click" action gives less trouble.

YMMV, of course.

Ah, I can see you are real expert. I look after two elderly people, probably the biggest problem that they have is with applications that change state based on how you touch it. Even something as simple as picking up a call in Android is totally unintuitive (if anything, Android has got worse...tbh, I barely understand the incantations that one has to perform to do things on there now). Another big one is hidden menus, they don't understand that you have to click the burger for this hidden menu or that an arrow on the button means you can click through (Apple is actually better in how they structure menus).

I understand why these products have been designed this way but I don't think the people who make them understand how badly they are designed for some people. I am a web dev and, imo, a lot of this comes from ways to make your app "look cool" on mobile. Add some buttons, make your app a bit longer vertically...it isn't the end of the world.

I will say though, they find tablets far easier than computers. Tablets present a very simple interface of things to do. Computers seem more complicated (ironically, you see this with kids today even young adults in their early 20s...they have no idea how computers actually work, and often don't understand anything beyond...click this, and app opens). Both hate phones, they can use them but they feel uncomfortable using them.

On the OP, you just have to take stuff over. If you are paying bills or whatever, you should just do it yourself. It will save you time.

We're in the same situation, but went with a pack of simple styluses instead of switching platforms. Working ok so far, arthritis definitely gets in the way of the iPad solution. That being said, we're definitely avoiding a pile of family tech support because of the iPad.
ChrisLAS/Linux Unplugged/Jupiter Broadcasting and the AskNoah show do talk about remote IT support. Like them, I prefer open source solutions.

RustDesk (yes, remote IT software written in Rust) is one option I hear a lot about.

https://rustdesk.com/

I’ve been using Chrome Remote Desktop with my parents. Takes a bit to install but once they have it, they just click on the Remote Desktop in Chrome, give you the code, accept the connection and you are in. For iOS devices - a FaceTime call you can now share screen (I think its only iOS 15) and its much easier to tell them where to click to troubleshoot. Both solutions have been working really well for me recently.
Chrome Remote Desktop is what I'd recommend too. If they already have Chrome it should automatically install the rest (with a confirmation) when they try to share the screen.
If helping aging adults is something you are passionate about, we are helping older people age in place with grace and dignity. I'm an engineer here and am happy to answer any questions and/or give a referral if you are interested in applying!

https://www.joinhonor.com/meet/engineering

I’m genuinely interested in advocating for the elderly in tech. Do you have any insights on the challenges Honor faces or has overcome? Especially in regards to respecting the real-world/digital privacy (let alone HIPAA!) while engineering a solution with technology.
Honor faces the same issues as everyone in the home care industry: senior home health care is taxing work and there is very high turnover. It's also a very intimate and emotional industry. Some of our technology challenges are around Care Professional satisfaction and improving back-of-house operations.
there used to be many options. But team viewer seems to be the only reliable choice I found.

I feel that team viewer's pricing is a bit expensive for this use case.

It's free for personal use.

imho quite a good business model - builds up good-will/recognition, and then if anybody is asked what to buy for "remote desktop at work", it'll get a mention.

but their usage detector is buggy.

I only use it to assist my parent and don't really use it much. but they will pop up the message and saying they have detected business usage with my account. And then disconnect after 5 minutes.

Meshcentral, self-hosted.
I gave my mom a Nest Hub en she controls Spotify from Google Assistant to Play music on her Sonos. Every piece of hardware she bought is hooking in on this ecosystem. My mom has dyslexia thus a keyboard input device increases the friction while voice removes this entirely.
Team Viewer's been my go-to for years (decades?) and always appreciated their free for personal use.

In they're on Win10, there's "Quick Assist" baked in - which removed the hurdle of getting them to download and install something, before you can see exactly what they're doing.

In addition to the screen sharing, numerous good tools are already mentioned, make sure you have a copy of the same OS available to you as you help.

Experimenting with other people having to do some of the steps (eg elevated permissions) is extremely tedious and far slower than you doing it on your own and then just telling them the correct answer which just magically works as far they are concerned. This also tends to be less stressful for everybody involved.

For windows and Android, VMs are the right tool as you can get the exact version right. iDevice VMs are possible but not worth it, a physical device is easiest. Fortunately even fairly old hardware runs the on-the-run OS version.

edit: clarity in second sentence

> ...make sure you have a copy of the same OS available to you as you help.

Hard to overemphasize this aspect. I would even add this to the localization level, as some menus and even keymaps differences could turn a simple task into madness!

Also, have limitless patience and wisdom to postpone some stubborn task for next, hopefully more relaxed time. Better yet set things up in person, if possible ahead of time, to avoid all the unnecessary annoyance.

This all assumes the receiving side indeed wants this type of assistance, as too often people in age may prefer to rely upon their time-provem and familiar ways to deal with tasks.

iOS and shareplay is easily the best solution to help friends and family.
If you can, consider replacing tbeir computer with something else completely.

If they use a desktop computer, replace it with a decommissioned desktop server or a workstation with ipmi/idrac/iLO: you can do most remote management through it (including power cycle and os install/reinstall).

You can password-protect access to it and you'll have to setup a vpn connection to be able to access it.

It's really the bes you can do, albeit a bit expensive.

Screen Connect/ConnectWise Control also has a free tier that lets you have a few nodes joined.
wireguard (or tailscale) + sshd + VNC (macOS screen sharing) server bound only to the virtual interface or firewalled.
Agreed. Get all the way on the network, youll be able to troubeshoot more things. Having teamviewer with a hardcoded password is a good fallback. Have two ways in.
I did something similar. I installed ZeroTier, OpenSSH server, and TightVNC server on my parents' computers.

Their computers and mine are connected in the same ZeroTier network. I SSH to their computer and connect to VNC over an SSH tunnel. VNC is only bound to 127.0.0.1 so nobody on the network will be able to access it.

Perhaps I could have skipped the SSH part of it since ZeroTier should have covered the network security, but I also wanted an easy way to run commands too.

It's a couple steps to get connected, but it works well.

If you're macOS both sides, iCloud allows screen sharing between users (opt-in via System Preferences). I typically trigger this from a Messages chat using the Details modal.
Since you are considered about security, I recommend setting up a VPN (some routers support it, or you can run it on a SBC or old machine). It's a bit of a learning curve but it's a clean and secure solution in that the VPN provides the main line of defense - vs. securing individual endpoints if you expose their ports to the public internet.

The VPN will let you RDP or SSH/VNC into their machines for remote manitenance. Since it gives you access to their entire LAN, this has the bonus of you being able to access and configure other devices like security cameras/etc.

If security is less of a priority there are simpler options other commenters have discussed like Chrome RD, Teamviewer, etc.

Team Viewer is the best option I'm aware of. What security issues are you worried about? No remote system will be perfect, but anything put together yourself is (I suspect) much more likely to break than TeamViewer.

Consider having back up options -- if they have an iPhone or tablet, remember they can always point the computer at the screen as a last minute option.

I would suggest keeping it simple and using Windows 10's built in Quick Assist app. They just click it to open and put in the code you give them.
I noticed this option on my parent's computer but I am unsure about what am I supposed to do as the actual "assistant". Would you know if there is a downloadable client, or do I need to be running Windows 10 specifically?

I have Ubuntu and Windows 8.1 at home.

Sorry I missed this reply, Windows 10 only, unfortunately.
ConnectWise ScreenConnect works great for me and my grandparents
I previously used TeamViewer but had issues with them false-flagging me as a commercial user and kicking me off constantly.

I've now got a shared google account on my Chromebook and their computer, Chrome Remote Desktop is installed on their PC and I have the PIN, with that I can just go to remotedesktop.google.com (on the shared account) and join their computer whenever they ask for help.

I was originally planning to use the system where they generate a code first, but they're nowhere near the technical level for that to not become a nightmare quickly, so now it's just flat remote desktop.

I know this is a difficult question to ask, but have you considered taking some of those responsibilities on yourself? It may be more sustainable, long term: computers are always changing, and computers are always taking more responsibilities on themselves (I just bought my parents a robot vacuum that you start and stop through your phone, for instance). You may be much better equipped to respond to those changes than they are, even with your help.
That’s what my father, an octogenarian himself, does for some of his still living siblings: he’s got their authorization to run their bank accounts, tax declarations, etc. The others don’t even have a computer, or don’t know how to operate it sufficiently.
Depends on the desired degree of help and autonomy.

Not exact same situation, but the solution was along the lines of setting things up for the remote desktop.

First I configured the router for remote access. This step was the least secure. The objective was to set up port-forwarding for SSH. Once the tunnel is configured, the remote admin acccess on the router is no longer needed.

Then set up an SSH server the and remote desktop. In my case the remote OS was Ubuntu, so it was relatively straightforward, but did involve some typing/copypasting.

Once the remote desktop was up, the rest is just use it on-demand as needed.

This approach could likely be made more simpler, but the router part may still be needed, and in my experience this was the most difficult and critical task to clear remotely.

Chrome remote desktop works well.

I spent too many times on the phone hearing complaints like "it just put up a error message that said 'no'" etc that this is much easier. No more asking what the error actually said etc.

Reliable, and I mostly trust (for better or worse) google to get security right.