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Ask HN: Please recommend a router without need for a cloud account

137 points by hnthrowaway0315 ↗ HN
Hi friends,

I'm shopping a router and from what I read in the reviews, ALL mid-end family routers (those between $40 and $100) that I see need a cloud account to access the management page. I'm wondering if there is anything that does not need a cloud account? Thanks~~

202 comments

[ 7.2 ms ] story [ 309 ms ] thread
aborsy
Protectli boxes running OPNsense seem good. A bit more expensive though.

I advocate separating APs and WiFi from router.

a-dub
this is what i would consider if i wanted to go full alpha nerd about it. although these days could also just run linux.

everything else has the equivalent of a cloud account via automatic firmware updates.

lytedev
May I ask why you advocate for such separation?
detaro
a) all-in-one is often a compromise, e.g. people might like a a relatively plain Linux or BSD to do routing - best on "boring" hardware, but you don't get the best WiFi performance on such hardware. Whereas APs/integrated routers don't necessarily run such OSes best, have driver issues for newest standards etc.

b) incoming internet connection is often in a corner somewhere. Best position for an AP is elsewhere. If that's a problem depends on how you get internet and what the place looks like.

sliken
Routers are security sensitive and are long lived. Much like the unix philisophy, do one thing and do it well. A GigE router has been plenty for many years and will likely be fine for most people for many more. Ideally routers are kept as simple as possible and as secure as possible.

WIFI APs however are changing quickly, beam forming, MIMO, 802.11ac, 802.11n, wifi6, 802.11g, etc. Not to mention ideally APs are placed for optimal propagation and might even having more than one per home.

So ideally you don't have to throw away your router to get the current gen WIFI or to add a second AP. Similarly with separate AP and router you don't have to throw away your AP because you need more/faster ports, better buffer bloat mitigation, or improved QoS on your router. When troubleshooting it's really nice to be able to tell if it's an AP problem or a router problem.

5bolts
how comfortable are you with swapping the firmware out? DD-WRT or Tomato (or any of the other options) should all be local only.
throw0101a
Never needed one for my Asus.
eez0
I second this.

OP, I don't know what kind of research have you done, but Asus routers certainly do not need any cloud account.

matdehaast
Microtek hands down the best value for money.
cpach
Do they comply with the GPL though?
markvdb
I presume you mean Mikrotik?
emptybottle
How so?
bennyp101
You can pick up a hAP2 for ~£60 which gives you a LOT of configuration for the money. You can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.

The only downside is it's not exactly a point and click GUI - but for what you get for your money they are worth it

dilyevsky
Only if you like to get p0wned (they have terrible security track record)
watt
Therey're 10x as careful now, probably. Mikrotik is great at releasing patches, so even if you have old device, you are covered.
BenjiWiebe
I've had very little contact with Mikrotik products, but that's the amazing thing about them, to me.

Any old Mikrotik device can run the absolute latest firmware (at least as far as I could tell, and I've got a 8+ year old Mikrotik device).

dredmorbius
Any system capable of running OpenWRT.

https://openwrt.org/supported_devices

You might find / inquire about specific devices at the OpenWRT subreddit:

https://old.reddit.com/r/openwrt/

The Turris Omnia is priced above your preferred range, but is effectively a small server and has excellent capabilities. It runs a specifically-tuned and live-upgradable version of OpenWRT:

https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/

pc86
I'd never heard of the Omnia before, I'll have to check this out it looks pretty neat!
cassianoleal
I was also recommending it here (posted before seeing the parent): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29703321

I own one and it has not always been great. At one point their fork of OpenWRT was so different from upstream that upgrades were taking a long time and introduced lots of bugs.

Since the last major version or 2 though, they've upstreamed most of the drivers and custom code, so TurrisOS is just a few patches and packages on top of OpenWRT to better support the specific hardware and services, and it's been very stable.

One incredibly useful feature is BTRFS snapshots and the `schnapps` CLI to manage them. The hardware reset button can even be used to roll back to factory defaults, from where you can still access and restore any snapshot so it's very easy to unbrick the router if you make a mistake.

Add an M.2 NVMe card and you can run LXC containers (and in the next major release, even Docker).

webstrand
The Omnia looks really nice. But in their advertising script they claim they have "LTE antennas", does anyone know what they mean by that claim? I had thought LTE was only a term used by the cellular telecommunications industry.
FractalParadigm
It's possible they mean exactly what they're writing - my ISP has an option (usually part of their business package but can be had for home users by talking to the right person) where you can rent their WiFi modem that includes LTE/5G hardware and service as a backup connection in the event the main coax line goes down.
SR2Z
There is a cellular LTE modem that can be used as a backup internet connection if the primary one goes down.
mdavis6890
Likely for a backup cell/LTE WAN connection. Sounds like a nice feature, if it's actually what I think.
zx76
Pretty sure this is the correct answer. I've had a D-link router in the past that could fail over from ADSL to 3G in the event that the ADSL stopped working.

If just one backup isn't enough for you then this article [1] about a developer at Gitpod who works remotely might be of interest. He has 6 redundant LTE and 5G connections on his van!

[1] https://ghuntley.com/internet/

cassianoleal
The way they phrased it could be clearer, but what they mean is that you can add an LTE modem and add 2 antennas on top of the regular 3 WiFi ones.
dredmorbius
The device is hardware-hackable.

You can add additional rewritable onboard storage. And an LTE modem for mobile data.

antihero
Does OpenWRT still mean that speeds are slower due to not having proprietary drivers?
LargoLasskhyfv
Doesn't matter, because you cän OVERCLOQQ!1!!

https://openwrt.org/docs/techref/bootloader/pepe2k

https://github.com/pepe2k/u-boot_mod

No, seriously ;-) What you are thinking of is probably described here https://openwrt.org/docs/techref/hardware/switch and has a long history.

Basically it depends on having opensourced drivers, or at least specifications for the internals of the affected switcheroos, which wasn't the case for many chips for a long time, and still isn't for all of them.

Then there is the part of writing a unifying and usable abstraction for all of that, which also isn't fully there yet, at least not for every device under the sun.

Read up here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/switchdev....

dredmorbius
Not to any significant extent AFAIA, though specifics will depend on the device, components, and drivers in question.

In almost all cases, OpenWRT extends rather than restricts device capabilities.

That said: choose your hardware based on OpenWRT support if at all possible.

ramphastidae
IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit. There’s a non-trivial chance you will spend hours and hours reflashing your router and reading forum posts until you eventually brick it. It’s just like Raspberry Pis. Theoretically the right choice but practically speaking a huge time sink and poor, unstable experience that is best left to hobbiest tinkering or networking professionals with a lot of spare time.
Faaak
I don't really see what you're talking about. I've flashed all of my routers and _never_ had a problem.

Maybe the thing that took me the most time was to decide which version to use or whether I should use openwrt vs tomato vs other competitors

ramphastidae
Your post history says you use Dvorak and Vim, and were tinkering with your school’s network at 15, so I think my point stands :)
yladiz
I would second the parent, I installed and use OpenWRT on my router without much issue. Flashing and configuring was quite easy, and really the most difficult part was actually getting the router because the local shops (MediaMarkt) don’t have many/any compatible routers.
MandieD
If somewhat recently, which model, because MediaMarkt is also my main local option (RIP, Conrad)
Faaak
Well, indeed you're right on this point but on the second hand flashing a router is just selecting the firmware and clicking on "Flash". I never had a bricked router. I didn't flash a lot, but at least 6 or so. Maybe I was lucky
tomc1985
Everyone should strive to this level of competence, and I like that some of the posts here (like advice for installing OpenWRT) kind of force it

Breaking stuff and then fixing it is the fast track for learning

If you're not a smart computer guy then maybe this isnt the forum for you

D13Fd
Being efficient is part of being smart. Sadly the older you are the less time you have to spend time trying to fix things that you don't care about, and the less the knowledge you gain is worth to you (simply because you have less career- and life-span left to use it).

Yes, I've flashed routers in the past, including the Linksys WRT54G, and in some cases I've even built a dedicated PC to run as a router, back when that was a bit more in vogue.

But is it worth the time to do it yet again? Probably not. I'd rather get an Apple-like router that works perfectly out of the box, with sensible defaults and little configuration necessary, and which is regularly auto-updated with security fixes. That way I can spend my time on new things.

karmakaze
Tomato, is that still going strong? I remember using it for its MLPPP capability. The QoS never worked that well with it as I recall.
howdydoo
Nothing in life has a 100% success rate. But I think the fact that most people recommend OpenWrt, shows that most people don't have these crazy problems. Buy well-supported hardware, follow the directions carefully, and you'll be just fine.
ramphastidae
Certainly. But I had a very difficult time. I purchased an ASUS router recommended by the OpenWRT website, followed directions but struggled for hours, and eventually bricked it only to find out later via searching forum posts that some routers with that model number are not supported if they were made in a specific year (of course, this was discovered via trial and error by other frustrated forum members, no one had updated the original recommendations to reflect this, and installing the recommended firmware destroyed the router irreversibly).
LargoLasskhyfv
Really irreversible, or could it be reflashed via so called 'JTAG-cable', and serial terminal, tftp, or maybe even https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom (but then with other cables and plugs, because most likely directly writing into the chip without any intermediaries)?
opan
I would personally avoid ASUS as they tend to use Broadcom NICs, which never have good free software support. If one was recommended, maybe it was an exception, but I'd still try to avoid ASUS.

If you want a cheap rec that's easy to get OpenWrt on, get a Netgear R6220 off eBay. I've gotten 3 of them for $20 each or so.

042
This was exactly what happened to me. Certain tp-link routers made specifically for Italy got bricked if you installed OpenWRT on them.
fartcannon
Forgive me if this sounds arrogant, but I think the general HN user is capable of handling the relatively simple UI based download and flash required to use OpenWRT. Likewise, using a raspberry pi is probably trivial for most developers. If not, I'm being under paid.
garbagecoder
I think most people are capable. It’s whether it’s worth it. I loved learning more about Linux and networking with it, and loved having automatic cell failover, but at the end of the day, it was too unreliable.

So, forgive me for how this sounds, but the general HN user probably needs a reliable as possible internet link.

fartcannon
Again, it's a download and a 'flash' in a GUI. Probably couldn't be simpler. As for reliability, my house has two of the same routers - one runs openwrt, the other runs the factory default (unfortunately it's not mine, so I can't just change it at will). Can you guess which is unreliable? It's the factory default.

This is not to mention the security implications of having a non-open source router. Never trust a third party like that. Some even try to get you to use an app.

garbagecoder
“Works on my machine” isn’t a very constructive response. You have a lot more work than that to do if you don’t get the right hardware. It’s decent if you don’t change the defaults, I guess but then what’s the point?! Try installing almost any package and sometimes it will just lock up.

An actual misconfigured/buggy router is a bigger security concern for me than a potential back door. Also, what makes you think open source software matters if the hardware is closed? Do you have a pine router or something?

fartcannon
I wish! That'd be rad.

There was an article just the other day about how google is sunsetting a mesh router they built. That's what you get if you don't take the frankly small amount of time to wrench control of your hardware from its parent companies. You're worried about security? Bad news, if you're not doing your own updates, your security can and will be sunset.

But I get it, you don't wanna. Not much more to be said than that I suppose.

... Does pine make a router?

numpad0
Say you pick up an average HNer and if they couldn’t pick up a Pi make it do a barrel roll in couple days, you might be disappointed. But if you could give them an Amazon URL and he could set up a Wi-Fi infra with >95% SLA in 5 minutes, there can literally be cost difference measured at $10k range, for a minor detriment of having an annoying router in the household.

There are the other kind of HNer who are that pillar in xkcd Dependency comic, but for the former kind, OpenWRT as it is right now is just waste of their time.

JeremyNT
This is very different from my experiences. You need to spend a little time setting up any router, and the only meaningful added step for a basic working configuration when compared to stock is the flashing process. Once you have it working, in my experience, it's incredibly reliable.

Whatever issues you had are not the common path IMO. I've run openwrt essentially for as long as it's been a thing and the only instability I ever had was due to my ISP. I'm sure if you end up with some esoteric, poorly supported, or flaky hardware things can be different, but this is far from universal!

Rebelgecko
FWIW I've had the opposite experience. The stock firmware on my TP-Link router was awful. It was a pain to update and I frequently had to reboot the thing because it decided to stop working. Installing OpenWRT took maybe 15 minutes and an hour or so of fiddling and setting up my port forwarding and static IPs. Now my router's uptime is measured in months (and that's only because of power outages)
jcpham2
OpenWRT is the only thing I would recommend - all the consumer routers have turned to trash.
cpach
Eero is an exception there. Their quality is terrific.
globular-toast
I think you just need to go in with an understanding of what a router and related things (access point, switch, modem etc.) actually are. Too many people think router is just "that thing that gives me internet via wifi". If you are one of those, you might not have a good time with OpenWRT or Pfsense etc.
LargoLasskhyfv
If you manage to brick your router by messing with OpenWRT, you're maybe better of with the factory default 'for dummies' interface. Most cheap plastics have something like 'recovery' built in. It's like rescue 'BIOS' becoming active after a while, or via some reset button push code, where it is accessible on a default IP, and reflashable via browser. This seems to be the case since at about 10 years? What sometimes is lacking, is the documentation about the specifics of factory defaults for different devices and revisions thereof.

I never felt the 'instability', at least not when I limited myself to the basics a thing like that should do, and not trying to turn it into a server for all sorts of things.

(Edit: Though you can also do that, if you know what you are doing. That's the advantage of things like these!)

Depending on which hardware/SOC you have, DD-Wrt may be a better option.

cyanydeez
took about q5 minutes to setup. perhaps you chose the wrong router.
unmole
> IMHO, skip OpenWRT. It is much more difficult to get working correctly than HN likes to admit.

Does not match my experience at all. My router would regularly go offline with the stock firmware which never happened after I flashed OpenWRT.

dredmorbius
The Turris Omnia is preconfigured with OpenWRT, specifically tuned to the hardware, and auto-updates.

It's cloud-free, spyware-free, adware-free.

The default configuration works with the same basic configuration any consumer-grade system would require.

Extensive configuration capability is offered through either of two graphical front-ends, the basic Turris, the advanced Luci, or for those who prefer talking in words rather than gestures, a highly capable Linux system residing underneath.

NortySpock
I would also suggest dd-wrt as an alternative; it seemed a little easier to find a working build and I've eventually gotten used to the UI organization.
dredmorbius
I've used dd-wrt for over a decade. Issues:

- Seems very badly out of date.

- Far more limited capabilities

- Much less clear upgrade capabilities / path.

If it works for you, then sure. I'd lean strongly to OpenWRT.

Much of my dd-wrt comments also applies to Tomato from what I've been able to sort.

dd-wrt and Tomato were built for systems as they existed a decade or two ago, notably the venerable Linksys WRT54G router. These work, but have highly constrained hardware.

shadowoflight
I'd personally recommend FreshTomato[0] over OpenWRT, as it has a more approachable UI, is still open-source, and (in my experience) tends to run a bit smoother while needing less babysitting.

[0]: https://freshtomato.org/

PaulKeeble
It has serious updating issues however requiring you to completely setup the router every time you update and the update process is entirely manual. I like FreshTomato I have used it for some years but the wifi performance sucks and the constant clearing of settings just grates over time.

This is something commercial routers get right, updates keep your settings. This requirement will cause you to delay if you use any of the complexity of the router and that leaves you open to attacks. IMO its not a great choice today due to this one fatal flaw.

shadowoflight
Updating FreshTomato has never cleared out my settings, is it possible your install is broken?

Manual updates don't bother me, personally, but wifi throughput is definitely a pain point (my understanding is the lower speeds are due to FreshTomato doing more with the CPU than stock firmware does, which decreases the amount of CPU time that actual routing gets).

numpad0
That is also something Cisco gets rightest.

hostname# _

hostname# sho run

This is all it takes to backup ALL config. Also a short form of “show running-config”. If you follow best practices and take logs of all ssh connection it’s naturally there a second after.

Restoring? Just paste it on HyperTerminal. Cisco sues anyone who dares to replicate this exact behavior(e.g. Huawei-3Com), but similar commands exist for most professional network equipment such as Vyatta/VyOS’ `show configuration commands`.

sircastor
I like the idea of running OpenWRT. I did it for years. I eventually grew tired of being my own Network admin. The risk of bricking my router, and having to review what felt like arcane update rules before every upgrade process made me finally cave and just get an Eero. I don't love the lack of features, and I really don't like Amazon owning the company, but it works for me.
droningparrot
I've had good experiences running OpenWRT on the TP-Link Archer C7. It's a popular router and I've been able to find plenty of them used for around $40
clircle
I've got a C7 and it doesn't even need a cloud account to set up
cpach
The default firmware on C7 is quite nice and is good enough for most users. I guess OpenWRT gives more options for power-users though.
dehrmann
I usually get a Mikrotik device when I'm going to use OpenWRT. Hardware support tends to be pretty good.
unbanned
>need a cloud account to access the management page

Do they? Zyxel don't, Huawei don't, Netgear don't, Asus don't etc etc..

artimaeis
Take a look at TPLink equipment. They support cloud accounts, but they're not required. And their equipment is fairly good in my experience. I use the Archer C20 in my house, but in the $40-100 range I'd take a look at the Archer AX20.
twobitshifter
I have an asus AX3000 bought last year. I don’t remember there being any cloud account associated with it, but it is out of the price range ($150) you’re asking for.

It could be the budget options are reducing prices in exchange for the ability to gather data, similar to smartTVs

Overtonwindow
What about a linux box with Smoothwall, and a switch? If you’re unhappy about cloud routers (as I am) perhaps build your own.
cpach
Smoothwall & Co are nice alternatives. But it can sometimes be tricky to find good hardware that has two Ethernet ports and are quiet, small, etc.
Overtonwindow
Good point, to clarify, I was thinking you could take a cheap PC, a couple of nic cards, and spend less than $100. Size would be a problem. I’m thinking a small mini desktop.
icecap12
OpenWRT is definitely the single best option, however there is very limited support for the WiFi6 routers. If you're upgrading to 6 or 6E, as I was this last month, I found few options for OpenWRT.

However, I already operate OPNSense as my primary router, and all WiFi "routers" on the network act as Access Points and do no routing. OPNSense provides granular control over the network, and offers all the services you would expect in at least a SMB-grade edge device (arguably enterprise), including routing, firewall, DHCP, DNS, IDS/IPS, etc.

Even in AP mode (routing disabled), the new WiFi COTS routers seem to phone home. My guess is a combination of checks for patching and some telemetry. I just block those lookups at the DNS layer for that device, which was effective enough at preventing the traffic. If I have to, I'll block outbound from that device specifically, though I admittedly haven't played around with the after-effects since its sort of the gateway for that specific NIC interface.

kubik369
I have given up on trying to find a consumer all-in-one router/ap combo and just have a dedicated router and dedicated access points. You can simply block all the Internet traffic for your access points and you will have more options to pick from for the router part. I am now running on a NanoPi R2S with some TP-Link Omada access points and I didn't have to touch anything for almost two years since I decided on this setup :)
ryantgtg
I don’t know that much about APs. They have to be wired into your router? I have some nearly-dead spots in my house, and so I think I need APs. Not sure that I could send wires around the house.

I use a buffalo airstation with dd-wrt.

kubik369
It would be best to run wires with APs to those dead spots. If that is not possible, make it possible. If it is really not possible, then you have the option of powerline adapters or mesh networks, but those are a mostly inferior solution to running a cable and putting an AP there. I recommend not even thinking about repeaters if you are not desperate. Don't forget that the APs can be powered through PoE (Power over Ethernet) which relieves you from the need to have a power outlet at the spot you want to put your AP in.
ryantgtg
Thanks, that was a really useful reply. I could probably run a wire (once I figure out where).

Do you recommend a router that doesn’t use wifi, and the wifi comes only from APs? This is not something I had ever considered prior to reading the comments in this post. I’m concerned this is going to be a rabbit hole..

kubik369
It really depends on what you want/need. Since I realised that I don't need to only have a single device, it just makes sense to me to have them separated. When you want faster wifi, you upgrade the access points. If you need router with better capabilities, you buy a new router and still have your perfectly well functioning wifi.

I like OpenWRT and not needing to research whether some device's wifi will work is a plus for me. You can of course still have a router with wifi capabilities, I just found that separating them makes upgrading to new devices easier. I can also keep using my older devices - I used an ASUS NT-14U router for a few years. It was great, it had plenty of RAM and flash for the time, OpenWRT run great on it. Then I wanted to upgrade to 5GHz wifi, but I just run into problems with router+wifi combos having inferior wifi performance on OpenWRT compared to stock device - usually only half the speed an sometimes even unstable. Then I realised I could just buy new 5GHz APs and keep using my old router. I have been mostly happy with my home network since that realisation. I bought some TP-Link Omada "small business" APs (EAP245 and EAP225-outdoor) and knock on wood I didn't have any problems that I can recall for a few years already. People also usually recommend Ubiquiti APs and devices, but I have never really gotten into that and the TP-Link offering seems to be a better bang for my buck.

If you are able to run a wire, do it, even if it means some more initial work or it being a little ugly at some spot. It is just simply more reliable than the other options. Your future self will not thank you, because he will not even realise how smoothly everything is running ;)

fundad
I have dedicated APs but don’t have a nice router.

I haven’t figured out if using APs for Wi-Fi and using my ISP’s router for routing loses me any speed. Does anyone think an additional NAT layer could improve performance?

I imagine it’s features vs performance

kubik369
It's not really features vs performance. I don't know where you are based, but here in Europe ISPs must (I think?) put the router into bridge mode upon your request, from which point you can use whatever you want and the box from ISP acts mostly as a modem/media converter. I was even able to cut out this part by using an SFP GPON module I found!

Regarding speeds, it depends on what you are working with. Basically anything can do 100Mbit, most basic consumer gear seems to top out at around ~300Mbit and if you want to go higher, you need more powerful ARM SBCs or x86 based routers.

fundad
Thanks so much!

I’ve always had low cost and fast enough service. I moved outside of the wired service area and use 5G cellular home internet which while slow compared to global standards, it’s the fastest home internet I’ve had.

juancn
Mikrotik is nice too, if you need a bit more, I would check it out. I have been using one at home for a few years. Fantastic software and hardware but more on the advanced side.
DangitBobby
I don't recommend custom router firmware to anyone that isn't 1) confident in their ability to troubleshoot problems you will definitely have and 2) at least somewhat intrigued at the prospect of spending several hours troubleshooting their router.
balls187
Even though I still maintain my hacker mindset, as I get older, the more I fall into "I just want it to work."
DangitBobby
I said those exact words after sinking the better part of a weekend into trying to get WAN failover working on my (now useless) dd-wrt router. Once it stops being fun I'm ready to reach for my wallet.
dvno42
Can't go wrong with MikroTik. I set my family/friends up with these along with a current gen access point. Been running strong for 8 years or so.
bennyp101
None of my TPLink, Netgear, or ASUS routers have ever needed a cloud account - I guess this is a new/regional thing?

I use Mikrotik hAP2 (~£60/$80) - if you are comfortable with that sort of thing, otherwise I guess anything that supports OpenWRT as others have said.

Have you got examples of ones that need a cloud account? I'm intrigued now

ABeeSea
Yea I just bought a netgear router and it didn’t require a cloud account. It did push creating one very heavily during setup.
sib301
Also using net gear. I suspect the vast majority of users here are savvy enough to get around the cloud requirement but non-technical users likely would not have figured it out.
hnthrowaway0315
Just to confirm, you don't need the cloud account for entering management page right? The reviews I read on Amazon could be from people who are not technical enough so they fell for the cloud acc trap.
brynjolf
I have a R7800 and they used to have an app for Android and iOS they didn't need account. They later removed that app and made the router refuse connections to it in favor of the new app that does require an account.

That being said, if you don't want the app you don't need an account.

mistrial9
in California I see that the AT&T supplied DSL-modem/router requires sign in (stored in firmware configs), and takes over the DNS functions (details forthcoming). I am very concerned about future "required" hardware like this.. the excuses will be around security, but look at the history of economic incentives.
reaperducer
I guess this is a new/regional thing?

Only if there's no Amazon in your region.

Amazon eeros require an account.

Apple's Airports did, too, when those were still being made. Not directly, but you needed an App Store account to download the setup utility.

3guk
For small family home deployments I've always used ASUS stuff flashed with AsusWRT-Merlin - https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/ - has been super stable and I've never required anything other than a local account to set them up.
tonymet
I agree this is the best ‘technical family’ solution. Good balance of easy-to-use, stable as well as some advanced features if needed.

OP : If you are technical you can buy a TM-AC1900 on ebay for $40 and flash it with the AC-68U

https://www.bayareatechpros.com/ac1900-to-ac68u/

mikecoles
Merlin supports ai.mesh. Very nice. The roaming support from the stock firmware works well from the small installations I've done. Have you made use of the feature in the Merlin variant?
nsm
Bought a netgear router and a tplink repeater within the last year. All the cloud account crap is only required to use the mobile apps. However they all offer web interfaces directly at their ip addresses. Just use that and bypass all the dark patterns.

It sucks that companies feel the need to cloudify everything.

dnautics
Maybe I'm dense, but I could not figure out how to use my netgear wi-fi AP without registering your account. Same with TP-link. What's worse, is the TP-link didn't say "requires registration" on the box.
david422
All netgear routers can use routerlogin.net

Also have netgear with no cloud account required. Also don't use mobile apps.

cma
New netgear stuff only works without a cloud account when you unplug it from the net. That means no remote admin through a local machine (have to be there to pull the plug), and no settings changes without disrupting internet.
ABeeSea
I just logged into my new netgear router from 192.168.1.1 without unplugging anything.
bbarnett
I wonder, fall for the trick, setup cloud, and you are forever trapped?
david422
I dunno, I've had netgear forever, before they ever had cloud logins, and I've just set it up the exact same way every time. Maybe if I was buying my first netgear today I would be suckered into the cloud stuff since I wouldn't know any better.
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csdreamer7
I bought a tplink wifi repeater years ago and it definitely required a cloud account to use. There may be a way to set it manually, but it was not obvious to me.
bbarnett
I don't even want a device, at all, if it has the capability for cloud management.

It obviously phones home, and has all sorts of additional exploit angles.

I bet there's a daemon listening 24x7 for incoming connects, too.

Ubiquity ERL already had a security issue with theirs.

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dilyevsky
https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-b1300/ No bs openwrt router has DoH and optional PoE support. Cheap
slock83
I've been using this particular model for about 6 month now, with a standard openwrt on it.

It runs a full AdBlock, ip-ranges blocking, and a wireguard server (with good enough bandwidth, I use it with steam link/gamestream).

Very nice small router