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Ask HN: How do you avoid dopamine addiction on social media?

60 points by hubraumhugo ↗ HN
After posting on social media, I found myself refreshing my notifications quite often. Do you know that feeling? If so, how do you overcome it? What works quite well for me:

- An app that blocks distracting sites (I'm using Freedom)

- Change that pattern by changing my habits (e.g. excluding my phone from the morning routine)

Edit: A complete deletion is not really an option since I enjoy Twitter, Reddit, HN to stay up-to-date with the tech world :)

110 comments

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Overtonwindow
Delete the apps. I think out of sight, out of mind, is a good tactic. Isolate social media to one computer/tablet and then just keep limiting your time until you're using it less, and less. Getting the apps out of reach was a big first step for me.
trentprynn
I’d go one step further and recommend actually deleting the account — non-binding actions such as temporary app removal (in my experience) have not worked. If I want to stop doing something it’s always been helpful to me to have some sort of “committing” action attached

edit: this is if the goal is full stoppage — limitation based goals have always been very difficult for me

HalcyonicStorm
This also worked for me. I deleted the Instagram app from my phone. If I want to see it, I can look at it from the phone browser. The experience is just barely not smooth enough to break the addiction.

I also keep the Nintendo Switch nearby. I've come to allow myself to take breaks, and I play Dead Cells for a level. Its the perfect amount of time to rest while also not completely losing context.

The other thing is that regular exercise for an hour everyday seems to improve my social media addiction. I feel better overall so I don't need the hit from social media.

achenet
Avoid social media.

Get lots of sleep, meditate, and eat well, as this helps.

See also the Huberman lab podcast on dopamine for more ideas.

Apreche
If you delete an app, you'll forget all about it. You won't miss it at all.

If you don't delete the app, really really cut back on your subscriptions/follows to just the essentials. The less content, the less time you spend doomscrolling.

Also, on platforms like Twitter, I turn of retweets. I only see tweets directly tweeted by people I follow.

polio
I try to be opinionated about which patterns of usage are both fun and productive, e.g. noticing how /r/all is full of unsatisfying material produces a conscious countervailing force to any subconscious desire to go there. I still use reddit a lot, but I do so by going to specific subreddits, e.g. by typing in programming.reddit.com instead of going to the generic entrypoint and allowing reddit's ranking and recommendation infrastructure do its thing. Sure, I'm still susceptible to it w.r.t ranking within subreddits and ranking within comments, but many of my subreddits of choice are smaller and so I end up seeing most of the recent content anyway.

Twitter and Facebook are too recommendation-intensive for me to use them on a daily basis. I follow a pretty small set of people on Twitter and my feed is still full of "people my followers interact with" and "things I might like". Facebook groups are usually too big for even the group-internal ranking to be very honest, although increasingly I find that going to Facebook for specific groups (similarly to going to reddit for specific subreddits) can be effective (at surfacing memes about new urbanism or Brian Eno).

raspyberr
There are no cool tricks to improving yourself. If you want to stop eating sugar then stop eating it. If you want to stop drinking alcohol stop drinking it. If you want to get fit start exercising. If you want to stop being addicted to social media then delete it. You can make all the excuses about how you need it to stay in contact with friends, or deals on the local market, or find events in groups but in the end if you delete it you'll continue living and everything will be fine. If you think it's affecting you negatively, get rid of it, and do the myriad of other things that exist in this world.
KerryJones
I disagree that there are no cool tricks. See my answer below.

I do agree that simply stop doing the thing is great, but that doesn't seem to work for many people. It can sound ridiculous if you have the will power, but if it were that simple we would have few overweight people, no addicts in the world, etc.

raspyberr
It is simple. It's just not easy. Lots of cool tricks and yet all the addicts are still there. The most important thing is to start. I even think talking too much about it is a negative because it feels like you're heading towards your goal without actually having done something. Spending lots of time talking and researching uses up energy and makes you feel like you've achived something when you actually haven't done anything at all.
KerryJones
Agree in concept, but now moving goal post? First mentioned that "there are no cool tricks". Many addicts _don't know_ about the tricks to help, and many of them are helped when they do have them.

I agree that I've seen many fall into the trap of thinking they have done something when they haven't done anything at all, but that's completely a separate discussion than using behavior psychology to your advantage.

kcarter80
There are plenty of tricks to make improving yourself easier. I could list dozens, especially with respect to eating, drinking, and exercising.

As for social media, I'm not aware of as many, and I'm guessing the OP isn't either, which prompted his post.

ncpa-cpl
When I got my new phone I never installed Instagram, Facebook or TikTok.

I kept the social media apps on my old phone only, so that one became my 'social media phone's instead of my main phone.

raspyberr
What I mean by "tricks" is that there's only one thing that matters and that's doing it. You're right that there are efficient methods but I certainly have spent a lot of time researching "the best methods" before realising that the most important thing is to actually just start and then everything works out fine later. Everything else is an excuse to put off doing it.
Apocryphon
And sometimes the inability to start (or to persist) is caused by preexisting conditions and it’s helpful to get medication or other help to overcome it.
csee
> I could list dozens

Please do.

johnkpaul
As much as my brain would like to agree with you and find the black and white more calming of a world to live in, at least for one of these examples I’ve found it untrue in a practical sense.

I’m now 5 years from any sucrose or fructose and I’m getting pretty close to totally zero carbohydrate. I’ve tried dozens of times over decades to “eat less sugar”. Until I learned about how eating fat will help satiate me (not saying it’ll work for everyone but it worked for me), I was unable to successfully eat less or no sugar.

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yosito
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.

This is simply not true. There are tons of tricks and strategies. For me, the best strategy is to replace a bad habit with a good one. For example, replace going to the bar after work with going for a run after work.

marginalia_nu
Isn't this just not going to the bar, except reframed using the somewhat nebulous concept of "habits" that are implied to be some sort of external force that steers our fate and determines our action, not entirely dissimilar to the gods of old.
james-bcn
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.

This is bullshit. There are lots of simple tricks you can employ to improve yourself. For example:

>If you want to stop eating sugar

If you want to stop eating sugar, throw it all away, and when you go to the supermarket go when you have just eaten, and avoid buying sugar and sugary products.

This gets recommended a lot, but because it is good - Atomic Habits by James Clear.

raspyberr
So the cool trick to not eating sugar is... not eating any sugar.
b3morales
No, it is two steps before that: re-arranging your day-to-day so that there is no sugar to eat.
Levitz
No, there is a lot around that, which results in not eating any sugar.

It's really simple and intuitive once you actually think about it. If you found yourself in a situation in which eating sugar was more effort you would be less prone to doing it. Not doing something makes it easier to not doing it afterwards too.

Treatment of any addiction steers right away from the "just don't". It's silly, humans just don't work by simply willing things into place harder and harder, they can either just do things or not, in the former case it's not a problem and in the latter there are things that work and can transition into the former.

ppg677
"""If you want to stop eating sugar, throw it all away, and when you go to the supermarket go when you have just eaten, and avoid buying sugar and sugary products."""

So much easier when you live alone. My spouse buys sugary crap for my kids and then I have to resist all the time. Which I can't. Thus I am overweight.

nine_k
Talk to your kids :)

Also, suggest lower-calorie snacks.

james-bcn
Well it sounds like you need to discuss things with your spouse. If she doesn't want to stop buying sugary crap, then ask them to put it in a locked cupboard, and them to keep the key.

If your spouse doesn't want to collaborate with you on your goals and things related to your health, then you have some serious discussions to have.

antisthenes
Here's a simple trick - stop shifting the blame on other people.

I really don't get your defeatist attitude:

1. You don't have the willpower to stop eating sugary stuff

2. You don't have the willpower to have a conversation with your spouse to stop buying sugary crap

3. Barring 1 or 2, you aren't talking to your kids to convince them to stop demanding less sugary stuff or aren't presenting them with tasty alternatives.

I'm sure in response to this I'll get a lot of angry replies to the tune of "it's not so simple" or "I don't have enough time for that" or "willpower theory is a myth".

b3morales
I agree that will is required; the trick though is recognizing where to apply it. I think 1 is a losing strategy. 2 is an excellent starting point, but it might be blocked by another bad practice of some kind...so maybe that needs to be identified and fixed first. I guess the point is that, like that old joke[0], having the hammer is not enough -- knowing what bit to bang on is also critical.

[0]:https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/06/tap/

foogazi
> Which I can't.

C’mon, just say no

pizza
Do you think you could communicate them that it's ok to have treats as long as they stay outside the house? Seems like they don't yet know or understand your underlying need to keep them out of the house.
WheelsAtLarge
I agree with you in some sense but stopping a bad habit immediately works for some but not for most people. That's why we have so many businesses that are setup to help you beat a bad habit. There is no one way to beat it that's effective for all.

One that I've found is effective to me is to replace the habit with some other habit. One that's beneficial. Example, every time you feel the need to go on social media replace social media with reading. Be sure to have a book at hand. Or a quick 1 minute or so workout. I heard of a guy that curled dumbbells, 10 reps. He got huge biceps. I don't know if it helped his habit but he sure got results. Think of something beneficial to you that you want to improve. You might fail at first but keep at it you'll succeed.

qwerty456127
> There are no cool tricks to improving yourself.

There are and many have been invented very long ago.

Arguably, the concept of "sin" in its original meaning was not a crime but a miss, like when you get disturbed by something and shoot a wrong way rather than straight your target. St. Ignatius of Loyola (the founder of the religious order of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits) never meant his followers to be punished for every sin they commit, he in fact wisely expected them to commit numerous sins every day and train themselves to commit less of them gradually. As taught in his "Spiritual Exercises" scripture (which is the fundamental book of a Jesuit training) one should select one particular sin (eating sugar when not actually starving qualifies by all definitions) they want to fight at the time, do their best observing themselves, draw dots for every time they commit it, connect the dots with a line, recall the cases and observe the daily progress they make. Doing just this can be very effective for many. I encourage to study this text even if you are an atheist, for sake of extracting applicable psycho-technology and some philosophy to think about perhaps. If you consider yourself a Christian I would recommend that particularly strongly as it teaches exactly what to do to progress on your way to Salvation.

> If you want to stop eating sugar then stop eating it.

The problem is there is no single solid "you".

The first lie we tell ourselves is when we say 'I'. It is a lie because in saying 'I' we presume certain things: we presume a certain unity and a certain power. And if I say 'I' today and say 'I' to-morrow, it is supposed to be the same 'I', when in reality there is no connection between them. We are in this present state because of certain obstacles or certain facts in ourselves, and the most important fact that we do not understand is that we have no right to say 'I', for it will be a lie. When you begin to observe yourself you will see that it is really so: there are 'I's in you which do not know one another and never come into contact. For instance, begin to study your likes and dislikes and you will see that you can like one thing one moment and like another thing another moment, and the two are so opposed to one another that you will realize at once that those 'I's never meet. If you observe your decisions you will see that one 'I' decides and another has to carry out the decision, and this one is either unwilling to do it or never heard about it. (Peter D. Ouspensky, "The fourth way".)

The Jesuits' technique can hack this system by teaching the 'I' which makes the decision to persist awake.

Note that both the sources I cited have been written centuries ago :-) (both available on libgen nowadays)

Needless to say, in many cases there also are simple psychological and/or chemical solutions. Many can greatly decrease their craving to specific foods (or foods at all) by adjusting their diet to contain more of specific substances (i.e. specific vitamins, fiber, fatty acids, proteins) or by just healing some specific stress-inducing psychological trauma with assistance of a good psychotherapist.

bloqs
This is needlessly nihilistic. Increment is key. Stopping cold on learned habits and sensory comforts is neurologically difficult. At the first sniff of strife we reach for them as comfort. Incrementally changing input over time is the only manner compatible with how we work.

You didn't dig yourself into a metaphorical hole with a single bite of a shovel, so expecting to step out of it in one go doesn't work. Steps in and steps out.

KerryJones
I use ideas taken from behavioral psychology book, Nudge, but in reverse.

For instance, I use an extension that adds a 2 second delay to every Facebook page load. The added friction is small but it very quickly gets me frustrated and I just stop.

mthoms
For Reddit and HN, I simply added some browser CSS that removed the "next page" links (on Reddit you'll need to use the old version for this to work).

Since I can browse the first page, that allows me to "cut back" on those distractions without going cold turkey.

fikama
This is something new for me I have never read or thought of it. That's a bit evil, but it could work through its viciousness
blueboo
Habit change is no small thing. Delete the apps, schedule or ration usage. My noticing the difference quitting social media made in my emotional health helped reinforce the change — reflection writing was a good routine that supported that noticing.
kgwxd
That reminds me, it's time for my ~monthly Reddit account deletion to avoid karma cravings.

I wish HN would do account deletion the same way Reddit does. They argue it would harm the flow of conversations, but I'd argue the conversations here aren't a sacred as they make them out to be.

Just denying myself access to the account isn't the same, I tried it and had to ask support to give it back. I don't like to have 11 years of content sitting out there that's tied to me that I can't control in anyway (account used to be my real name, but support changed it after a minor stalking incident, but there's enough data for figuring it out).

b3morales
Could you do something like, change the password to a random string, put that in a file, and encrypt the file but have that password only known by someone else? Then it is accessible only if absolutely necessary.
kgwxd
I guess, but I'm not really looking to get rid of it because I'm addicted or anything like that, I just want it gone. It's my account, it should be my option.
ioman
I mostly don't use Twitter, Facebook, or Reddit. I have reason to log into my Facebook account a few times a year. The only reason I log into Twitter is when I get a link to a Twitter thread, same with Reddit. I'm no paragon of restraint, I had to delete Universal Paperclip from my phone to quit playing it. I guess the easiest way to deal with any addiction is not to become addicted in the first place. Not great advice for people who are already addicted. . .
slickdork
I did two things recently cause I've wasted just about half my life on reddit:

- Blocked reddit at a dns level across my entire network via pihole (I run a personal vlan so the rest of the house network wasn't affected).

- Disable my internet completely on this vlan after working hours via a schedule in pfsense.

I get around the reddit block sometimes by enabling a VPN, which is only a few button clicks. But since this work around causes me extra steps, it makes me pause to think 'do I really want to aimlessly browse reddit?' which the answer is usually no, so I usually stop in my tracks there and get back to work/whatever.

The entire internet being cut was more about configuring a sleep schedule instead of blocking dopamine.

The big take away: make it hard to access the content. The extra step makes you mindful of your time.

hh3k0
Personally, I found Leechblock to provide adequate extra steps for what you're describing. I agree with your point, what generally needs to be done is adding some sort of brain-teasing inconvenience. Adding some sort of "roadblock" against your brain going auto-pilot is what always helped me making more conscious decisions.
slickdork
I tried leechblock as well and it works well, but I ended up getting around it too easy. Setting up a barrier at the network level worked better for my brain.
qwerty456127
> Blocked reddit

Seems a rather bad idea to me because the most practically valuable search results you can get from Google usually are yielded when you add site:reddit.com to the search query.

slickdork
Yes, I've ran into that issue. If I'm trying to solve a problem and reddit's the only source of a solution, that's when I enable the VPN.
qwerty456127
Sounds reasonable. Adding an extra step of complexity on the way to getting there can probably make a difference and make you less likely to go there when you don't really need to.
b3morales
I've used rule-based blockers in the past that would let me block the home/feed pages of sites but not individual article pages. That way search links still work but I can't go zombie out. Might be worth a try.
lawlorino
Reddit is also my biggest weakness, though in my opinion it's a special case of social media where it can be (occasionally) a very useful source for information. Coincidentally there's another thread on the front page right now about how Google search results have become increasingly worse quality over the last few years [0], I often find myself adding "site:reddit.com" to search queries to weed out all the crappy clickbait and algo-generated sites that seem to permeate the first few pages of search results these days.

It's definitely not without it's problems (e.g. I'm certain there are company-managed accounts stealth promoting products in smaller subreddits, so take any product recommendations with a grain of salt) but I do seem to trust content on reddit more than what I get through googling general queries.

And I don't think I can say all this stuff without reflecting on how it's a really sad state of affairs and shaking my fist angrily at adtech which is probably how we arrived in this situation.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29772136

Edit: Just saw there's another reply to this posted while I wrote the above which highlights the same problem. It's certainly a space which is begging for some disruption.

jdavis703
Make it hard to login to social media. For example, setup 2FA via a hardware key, keep the key at home (or other place that’s hard to access throughout the day) and then logout of the site when you feel you’ve reached your “dose” for the day.

That ways you can’t just log in every time you crave a hit for a day.

Think of this like an alcoholic who always carries a flask — getting rid of the flask could be a good first-step in controlling the addiction.

sbmthakur
Here's what works for me:

1. Only permit important notifications

2. Avoid mobile apps like a plague

3. Avoid apps that have dark patterns like deep scrolling

4. Use simple alternatives when available. I use NewPipe instead of YouTube and i.reddit.com in place of reddit.com

5. I know that my time and attention are valuable. There's no reason I should give it to these companies.

6. Use app specific hacks. For example, it's not possible for me to avoid LinkedIn as I am looking for jobs. But instead of routinely browsing it I can just configure daily alerts.

buddhistdude
A complete removal from cocaine from my life is not really an option since it gives me more energy to be productive.
gnicholas
I deleted the mobile apps and instead use various browser apps for this purpose. I took the browser apps and hid them in folders on various remote screens (on iOS you can now remove them from all pages, forcing you to flip all the way to the end, where all apps are listed). After each session, log out and don’t save your password. The idea is to create a few seconds of time between the urge and the payoff, during which time you can reconsider whether you actually want to access the app.
qbasic_forever
Make your password very long and impossible to remember without a password manager. Keep the password in a very difficult to use or annoying password manager, like maybe a local instance of keypass on a single device. Log out of the service on all your devices. Now every time you want to use the service you have to go through an annoying process to log in and have time to question, do I really need to do this right now?
yuppie_scum
I went on a big “social media diet” over the past couple years and it’s been amazing.

One trick I used successfully was, remove the apps from your Home Screen so you don’t see them.

Turn off emails, notifications, badge counts, etc so it isn’t constantly reminding you of its existence and is easier to forget.

Don’t leave the tabs open on your computer. There’s probably plug-ins that can shut the tabs after x amount of time.

For mobile, there are app time limit settings (iOS I think has this in the Settings page), intended for parental controls but hey you can use them too.

You don’t have to follow everybody or anybody. When you notice an app, a channel or a certain account is bothering you, consider muting or unfollowing them.

Consider finding other things like games, work, or books that you can absorb your full attention.

Remember, you are the boss. You can use it on your terms. You’ll realize very fast that FOMO does not really exist for these, when you stop using them constantly.

You can do this. You’re gonna feel a lot better on the other side, I guarantee it.

notreallyserio
If I find that I'm doing too much A and I don't want to give up on it entirely I look for ways to make A less convenient. That may mean deleting an app (instead using a possibly clunkier website), not having candy in the house (I have to go to the store to get my fix), etc.

It's an extension of some typical advice to create healthy habits: make doing the right thing easier and the wrong thing harder.

aronowb14
> make doing the right thing easier and the wrong thing harder.

I’ve never heard it put so succinctly! In the realm of breaking social media addiction I’ve tried to block all feeds on my laptop using chrome extensions, logout on mobile. To be honest: it’s the “make the right thing easier” that has been tricky for me. I’m trying to read more, but frankly post work tiredness does make diving into good books kind of tricky. Not 100% sure what the right “right thing” to replace social media in my life is yet.

notreallyserio
I struggle with that as well. It's easy to point to the wrong things about social media (doomscrolling, say).

My solution for Twitter, which is a work in progress, was to create a second account that is focused on being more "positive"[0], and leave that one signed in. That makes the right thing easier. I use it to post jokes or interact with content creators that I enjoy. If I find myself wanting to interact with something that makes me feel angry, like some shitty thing a politician said, I think to myself: "which account do I want to use for this?" If it's the account I use for negative stuff I have to go through extra work to use it and then I don't bother. And nothing of value is lost.

I haven't found an ideal solution for reading. I bought a Kindle and have been using it every day but I don't know if it's because it's still shiny and new or because I've started a new habit. I do carry it with me throughout the house so it's pretty much always in view, which may help me consider doing the "right" thing (maybe pick it up instead of my phone).

0: Of course I'm assigning right and wrong, positive and negative, arbitrarily. That's ok for me because I'm not having a philosophical debate with myself, heh.

logosmonkey
Personally, I've started using Busuu and Duolingo more. When I get the urge to go to reddit I try to divert and go to one of those two apps and do a couple of sections. It doesn't always work but it's something.
b3morales
Absolutely: I think the one of the follow-on "secrets" after dealing with the bad habits is that you also have to pick the right good habits that will actually work for you. Take exercise. Some people love running; for me it's a horrible chore, but on the other hand I love long bike rides. Who knows why.

Maybe I think I "should" read a bunch of philosophy. But if it doesn't do anything for me, it won't develop into a habit. Maybe if I try a variation, like political philosophy, that will feel rewarding. And it might even lead back to the original thing.

The key I think on both the good habit and bad habit sides is being conscious of what you're doing. (Not to say this is easy though!) The new good habit you want can be hard but rewarding, or it can just be self-mortification, and you have to adjust somewhat to that reality.

jehna1
DNS level blocking worked quite well for me. It’s about making it hard enough to start the bad habit again.
auxfil
This "story" reads as just a conveniently embellished - if not outright faked tale - acting as a sell piece of the authors latest book. Ironically, it is not worth my attention. The article is doing the very thing which it posits.
bckr
I think you commented on the wrong post
kache_
I unfollow everyone on social media except close family. The trick is to remove the potency of your social media.
bwb
I removed all my friends from FB, so now I just use it for very specific information needs with Groups.

I blocked myself from checking any news sites or social media from my phone, only desktop. That way I don't get stuck in bed or delay wind down.

myle
The book atomic habits has some good points that can help. It is not that long and can be read relatively fast.
astroalex
I wrote a "social media contract" for myself that specifies when and how I am allowed to use social media (HN once a day; YouTube only on weekends; Twitter only to post — never to browse, etc.). I have a simple spreadsheet where I track my daily compliance. My reward for fulfilling my contract is a green check mark in the spreadsheet.

This technique has worked surprisingly well. For myself, the key has been to flip the goal from a negative ("don't check Instagram") to a positive ("get that green check mark").

I'm now off Reddit and Facebook completely. (The fact that I still checked Facebook is baffling, it really was just a reflex to type the URL in the browser.) YouTube and Instagram have been more challenging, but I've made a lot of progress there (went a whole month without checking Instagram). Twitter has been the hardest.

Oh, and definitely don't have any of the apps on your phone.