HN Explorer

Who is hiring AND offers 4+ weeks of vacation?

20 points by utefan001 ↗ HN
I would "never" work for a company that only offers 10 days of vacation. Please post links of companies offering 4+ weeks of vacation each year. Here are two that I know of.

https://careers.blackbirdtech.com

http://woti.com/benefits.cfm

25 comments

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wladh
In most of the EU 4 weeks is quite on the lower end. I have 28 days and I have friends who have 32-35 days/year (working days). This is one of the great benefits about living in Europe :).
gfaremil
This will be the shortest thread in HN history...

On serious note, I'm really not aware of a single one. I heard some

aspir
A similar point: I've never actually met someone who has 4 weeks of vacation to actually use all 4. Generally, when you work up to the point at a BigCo where you can command a larger vacation, it's hard to remove yourself from the day-to-day practices of work.

Plus, America has an embedded culture of trying to "outwork the competition" in everything we do, from sports, to academics, to the workplace.

It stems from the postwar era of growth where human hours logged in an office were the only drivers of progress. Obviously the world is different now, with the advent of the internet, but old habits die hard.

latch
From what I understand, a company which allows employees to accumulate large pools of timeoff tend to have very unpleasant liabilities on their balance sheet. It is, I believe, a very serious liability (regardless of where you live, all places have very strict rules about it).

It's a lot like reward points. The initial programs didn't have expiry...after years, auditors warned them that they had billions in liabilities in unclaimed points.

In my experience, any company that gets a serious CFO or some outside accounting/auditing, is going to rectify their vacation problem pretty quickly

crazy_startup
This happened at my previous job. They forced everyone to burn down the vacation time from their previous limit of 280 hours to 120. After that they instituted policies with a maximum of 180.

The issue is that it was impossible to take vacation time. Even on vacation I was working 3 hours every day and during the normal workweek was 60-75 hours without overtime or rewarding the extra time.

Frankly, I think that the company should just have a bucket for PTO and put it in the bank and earn interest on it. The liability should be backed by actual dollars so it's not a serious financial risk.

throwawayday
I actually get 6 weeks paid, plus 10 holidays, and I work in the US. I make sure that I take the full amount. Why? It's considered part of my compensation. It'd be like saying "No, I don't need that 26th check, you keep it".
papaf
As a European I find that really scary. Its not as if you will be on your deathbed regretting that you had never spent more time working.
cal5k
To be honest going into job interviews with a sense of entitlement about paid vacation time would probably reflect poorly with potential employers.

We offer 3 weeks (fairly generous for Canada), but I would be extremely put off by a candidate who wanted to discuss vacation time first and foremost.

latch
I would say that's extremely common in Canada. Not sure what's worse, having a sense of entitlement as an employee, or thinking what you offer is above average as an employer.

Snarkiness aside..I have mixed feelings about your first point. Entitlement sucks, 100% agree with you there. Flip side, vacation is awesome on so many levels, I feel that there genuinely should be a push for more vacation time.

cal5k
I'm actually a pretty big fan of the Netflix model - take as much as you need so long as you can get the job done. We just haven't worked out the logistics of that kind of thing yet.

Let's be honest, though. Technology work is highly team-based... it's not the company so much as your team that will be aggravated by excessive vacation time. I suspect that if we offered that type of model people would actually take LESS vacation - I don't have data to support this hypothesis, but I already know that most people don't actually use up their full allotment in a given year (in general, not just at our company).

aspir
I know Netflix has instated a flex vacation policy -- take as long as you need, but you have to get the job done first.

It depends on where you are looking to work? If you're looking to sign on with a startup hiring their first 5 employees, then you're against the odds. Most big American companies are the same way.

In all, it will depend on how good you are and how essential you are to the company. For the first year of employment at a 150 person firm, you may have to make do with 10 days. However, if your role is crucial to the company, negotiating 4 weeks of vacation should be easy.

As it stands right now, unless you're a god among men in your trade, you are replaceable, simply because they haven't hired you or even fallen in love with you in the interview process. I'd apply to a mid sized company you want to work for, and negotiate up for vacation. Everything's negotiable in hiring.

wladh
Flexible vacation sounds a lot like flexible salary, in my opinion. How do I know how much is reasonable? Also, how do you determine when the job is done, unless you have a very detailed to do list for the year? My job is never done, otherwise I'd be fired. Also, I hear people mentioning "taking 4 weeks in a row" as something quite rare.
morganls
from friends who have "unlimited" vacation situations I think it can turn into a bit of a guilt trip. Like, if you want to look good, you take very little. That being said, not sure if that's company culture or just workaholic friends.
joshmoz
Mozilla Corporation. We're global, we're hiring, we offer four weeks PTO plus your birthday.

http://www.mozilla.org/careers

jri
How does someone without any experience with web technologies, but with several years of experience with embedded systems programming, transition to a position that requires the array of skills listed in those job postings? This isn't directed only at mozilla, but all job postings that look for candidates with a very specific skill set.
joshmoz
The first answer that comes to mind is that our products are open source, and nothing gets our attention like fixing real bugs in our products. You can start with easy ones and learn at your own pace, with the help of other Mozilla developers as you need it. That also gives you a chance to evaluate the work you'd be doing as well as our community before you apply.
dlikhten
Mount Sinai Hospital/School of Medicine -- NYC
byoung2
I would "never" work for a company that only offers 10 days of vacation

That drastically reduces the number of companies you could work for. I have never had a problem with the number of vacation days. If you need more, just take unpaid days. If company A offers 4 weeks of vacation and company B offers 2 weeks, assuming everything else is equal, try to negotiate 4% more in pay to compensate for 1 paycheck's worth of unpaid vacation. I have always been able to negotiate at least 10% more than the initial offer for every job I took. This more than makes up for any lack of vacation days. I vacation a lot (e.g. 1 week Caribbean cruise, 4 days in Cancun, 5 days in Puerto Rico, 1 month in Philippines, 1 week Caribbean cruise again, Vegas for New Years, and a 3rd 1 week Caribbean Cruise within a 365 day period at a company that just offered 2 weeks paid vacation) and I just take unpaid days.

utefan001
I agree with you. I created this thread because I keep hearing about companies that offer "unlimited vacation time" that ends up being under 15 days per year because of employee fear. Also, I am not looking for a job.
mtogo
Every company in every country in Europe.
latch
Pretty sure most large banks start at 4 weeks. But I just quit one, and I'd take 0 vacation days not to work there again (aka, surely this can't be the only thing you care about).
twz
poor workaholics ... get help!
mattm
I applied recently to Server Density (but was rejected). What attracted me was their job description offering "unlimited" vacation. But you actually get a bonus if you take more than 5 weeks. I thought that was a good way to make sure people actually use their vacation time.

http://blog.boxedice.com/2011/08/19/our-holiday-vacation-pol...

bigsassy
The American Legacy Foundation in DC. Excellent pay, excellent benefits, and an excellent cause. Among other things, they are responsible for "The Truth" anti-smoking ad campaign.

I'm pretty sure they're looking for a python developer right now.

http://www.legacyforhealth.org/

plugger
Australia. Our economy is booming and unemployment is arguably the lowest in the developed world. Plus the USD is on parity with the Aussie dollar. If you can get down here, do it.