I love it when photos from this era occasionally emerge showing people acting naturally. We're so used to seeing the vast majority of Victorian photographs showing dour-faced people sitting or standing stiffly to attention, that it's sometimes difficult to believe they had human emotions, just like us.
It’s great. I also love video footage from that era as well, capturing the ordinary bustle of the streets. It’s fun when it’s local and you can point to familiar places. One of my favourites is Victoria and Vancouver BC around 1900[0].
I really hate these types of videos that ruin a perfectly good video and fill it with AI-generated fake frames and colors. Colorization especially is not something that an AI can do well yet. It generally turns it into a rainbowy mess of constantly shifting colors.
Also even the framerate is often wrong as these old movies didn't have consistent framerates. They were hand cranked so the framerate varied quite a bit.
In fact that's the only interesting photos from old albums (that and people you know). A 100,000th photo from the Eiffel tower will be the least interesting thing you will find (unless it happens to be a landmark that disappeared). But life in the street of Paris in the 60s is really interesting and amusing to contrast to today.
Delivery wagons might be drawn with a team of two or even four horses (or even bullocks). You'd want to be able to turn them around in such streets. Certainly that was the case for Australian country town main streets laid down in the 1800s
The actual noise levels may have been higher. Regardless, I think the main reason is ventilation. With coal and wood heating streets were designed to act as valleys pushing air through. Also, I hard that old European cities were built with airflow in mind. Whole streets were uninterrupted with trees while some have them.
Also I heard an opinion that Wrocław is one of the most polluted cities because it got a lot of new buildings that break the airflow on main streets.
During the 1800s there were four sets of building regulations (or rather, laws) for Christiania (the name of Oslo back then), which regulated everything from the width of the streets to how many floors buildings could be. In 1827 the minimum street width became 11.35m, then 12.60 in 1842, 15.75 in 1875 and 20m in 1899. (https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murbyen_(Oslo) has a good overview).
The background for the regulation was the switch from unregulated wood buildings to requiring mainly brick as building material - there were some major fires before using bricks became the law.
I live just around the corner from one of the photos - the building in that photo hasn't changed much since back then.
From what I see it's probably not winter (lack of snow), not autumn (lack of leaves on the ground). But that still leaves a pretty long time period with a bigger range of temperatures.
Depends on what you mean by 'short'. I think you're probably thinking of much further north in Norway. Summers in Oslo are usually from May or June to August. Sometimes there's 20+ C in March, sometimes it's 5 C in May. Night frost usually sets in around late October/early November, with snow usually arriving in November or December. Snow is usually gone by or during March.
Apparently the average temperature in 1890 was 1.3 C colder than it is now.
Well, that's fairly short by U.S. standards, at least when counting 20+ C weather, which in many states is nearly 6 months of the year, with summer heat lasting well through September in many places.
Even places south of Norway, like Netherlands, still considered pretty far north for many in the world, have relatively 'short' summers as well.
Ah, in that case then we have short summers. To me, "short summers" is the month or so of mosquito hell between spring and fall that they have in the northernmost parts of Norway.
The vibrant leaves that you can see on trees in many of the pictures usually appear in mid-May and last until October, so that narrows it down in terms of temperature. Likely 15-25 C.
The photos are definitely taken at very different times: #23 has flowers in the grass that remind me of summer. #27 has bare trees that say winter or late fall/early spring (and the lack of leaves or snow on the ground snow and relatively light garments of the soldier(?) makes me think early spring). Same for #48 and #55. #44 has parasols, indicating summer.
Photographic technology developed rapidly between the heyday of tintype (1870s'ish) and when these pictures were made (1890s). See my other reply for some readings to learn more about late 19th century photography.
(Also, photography was invented in the 19th century. I'm not sure why you make such sweeping claims about a whole century when exposures went from taking hours to fractions of a second over the course of it.)
Tintype is a different technology. By the 1890s, it would have been as obsolete as rotary landline phones are today.
I think the reason is different, because even I, as a kid in the early 1980s, was taken to a photo shop for "official shots", well dressed and told to behave. It was a bit unnatural, yes. People in staged shots are generally a little stiff.
Of course a tintype is a different technology from fast film or plates, or whatever this photographer was using.
However, you're incorrect about the lack of usage in the timeframe specified: "Tintypes enjoyed their widest use during the 1860s and 1870s, but lesser use of the medium persisted into the early 20th century" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintype
Besides, the GP comment referred to the era, to which I was responding.
Your explanation is not without merit, however: "One common explanation for the lack of smiles in old photos is that long exposure times — the time a camera needs to take a picture — made it important for the subject of a picture to stay as still as possible. That way, the picture wouldn't look blurry." — https://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8365997/smile-old-photographs
What confuses me: These are good photos! Many are sharp, well lit. And they were made from a pocket camera of people who didn't specifically stand still for the photo.
Why on earth did they have people stand like grim statues for those staged photographs? I thought it was because exposure times were extreme with those early cameras but this kinda proves it wasn't? 1890s, those must be among the first photographs, ever.
The first photograph successfully fixed to a substrate was in the 1820s, and the commercially viable daguerreotype came in the 1830s, so photography had been around a while in the 1890s.
You will notice that most of the photopgraphs have been made in direct sunlight. So he could have used high aperture and short shutter time. Most likely it was a fixed-aperture and shutter setup, since he could hardly have adjusted anything while shooting covertly. Still, not all of the photos are sharp, some do have motion blur, and some have grain, perhaps from pushing during development (i.e. correcting slightly underexposed shots).
But the technical basis was definitely on top of the game at the time, under the given conditions.
If you flip this around a bit... why would people think to smile for photographs? They're not looking dour, they're just sitting for a photo with their natural faces. Their main points of reference were drawn or painted portraits that people also didn't smile for (partially due to the amount of time you'd need to pose).
Smiling for photographs is a social behavior that took time to catch on.
> I didn't know that suspenders were called braces in England/Australia.
This has been the source of some comic misunderstandings, whereby an American bloke says they are/like wearing suspenders, and the listener then assumes they are coming out as transvestite.
My lecturer for assembly / low level computing used to wear braces, I enjoyed the look (and he certainly didn't seem to care what other people thought). As others have said, where what you want!
I moved the PNW in 2012 and to deal with the incessant rain, my wife bought me a brown fedora. Nobody wears brown fedora's anymore. But I do, and you'd be shocked at the number of compliments I've received ("Nice hat!" or "I like your hat!") and the number of conversations it's started.
I get the feeling that these pictures were taken after the fellow passed by in the street and give them a “Good day!” or similar.
You can see various expressions, some which say “and a good day to YOU young man” from some of the older guys to a “hmmph good day” from some of the well dressed women.
The last photo of the man being affectionate with his young daughter is surprising to me. All my life, I've thought that men born before 1950, like my father, just didn't do that sort of thing. And yet here is a man born a hundred years earlier doing just that.
That’s remarkable comment that really highlights for me how different everyone’s experience can be. My father was born in the early 40s and was apparently nothing like your father.
But those two photos are definitely the best for me.
A lot of our common conceptions of the past are flat out wrong. Often deliberate fabrications for political ends.
Why wouldn't fathers, in general, be affectionate? The Bible (to take a very old book) if full of fatherly affection. Take the story of Abraham and his son to be sacrificed. The story has always been shocking because the reader knows the son was so wanted and loved and empathizes.
Even the prejudice isn't universal. Italians don't have this conception of cold fathers 100 years ago.
Could it be a protestant thing? Possibly except the Norwegians in this set are themselves Protestants.
I would chalk up the image of a cold, distant father, to the generational shock of 31 years of slaughter in Europe (1914-1945). Some blame Bismarck and his quest to make perfect soldiers through universal education (and the export of the Prussian model).
But, really, the past is not as bad as it is depicted. Life was tougher, but there was love, laughter, loyalty, beauty, and friendship. I suspect more so than today.
I think politics are a big part, but I've been wondering a lot lately how much of this was leaded gasoline as well. Crime waves and angry parents could easily have been lead poisoning.
It might be a fabrication, but then its fantasy and not deliberate. You see, it really is the other way around with respect to my comment. My suspicions about the past are what drives me politically.
Obviously we are better than our forefathers in many things - listing them would be trite. But, on the whole, are we better off (never mind better)? These pictures were taken before industrialized genocide, world wars, atomic weapons, the mass adoption and molding of our cities around the automobile.
Right now every living creature on earth is on a knife’s edge of total destruction through nuclear or environmental disaster. If this is, on the whole, industrial progress I don't want it.
It is definitely culture. While Norway is Protestant it long been very progressive. It is the first country establishing government watchdog for protecting children’s rights. Britain is kind of infamous for strict child raising and because of the dominance of British in history they color our perception of the past.
I have several family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians.
I live in an immigrant area of Oslo with many Muslims. They are known to be more strict with children. But even they remark on how strict British is. My neighbor had her daughter on exchange in Britain and her daughter describe the host family as very strict. They are not used to that behavior from growing up in Norway.
> family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians
In which case, you *must* read Roald Dahl's autobiography 'Boy' (and the follow up, 'Going Solo'). He moved from Norway as a child into the English public school system, and a treatment that horrified his parents.
Incidentally, the biographies are aimed at children but very cleverly written to appeal to adults. For example, he describes a school teacher (in the 1920's) who would occasionally jump and twitch in class, making startled noises. The children found out he had something called "shell shock" and decided that this meant a shell must have exploded so close to him that he jumped so high he hadn't stopped jumping........ Interesting and funny to read as a child, but this works on another level when you read it as an adult.
That photo stuck with me too. Such tender care, chilling with his kid and the dog at a park. That one photo made me feel more connected to humans of that past more than other historic photos I've seen.
Post ww2 lots of parenting books said that you had to be super strict and harsh with your children, or else they would lose the next war with Russia or whoever because they would turn out soft.
It’s really fascinating, but losing millions of fathers in the war and then the post trauma strict parenting have had knock on effects we are still dealing with.
I bet that the trauma was even stronger in the USSR, which lost unfathomable numbers, and that maybe that generational trauma -- even moreso than communism -- resulted in the hawkish, militaristic, paranoid, confrontational, guns-before-butter standoff across the iron curtain throughout the cold war and which I think even lingers today.
I know people that come from the USSR... they universally fear war even today and think that's a realistic possibility in the near future. Most people living today have grandparents who can still recall the horrors of WWII... they lost a much larger share of their population to the war than all countries in the West (I think more USSR citizens died in the war than in all other countries combined). Nazis burning entire villages to kill off the local population (so the region could be settled by Germans later), they claim all villagers were locked up in the local church and then they set fire on it... people tried hiding in the forrests when they knew the army was coming and had to eat grass and leaves to survive.
They became really harsh people, and the population of most of Russia and current-day Belarus, Poland, Ukraine etc have a very characteristic attitude towards other people and countries that's completely contaminated by those memories.
Yup, exactly that. Polish literary Nobel laureate Czesław Miłosz was an immigrant to the US around 1946-1950 period, and he noted that what struck him in the US was that an average American is probably 10x kinder and nicer person than an average Pole. To him, the Americans were almost like children, happy and innocent, unaffected by the horrors of this world that the Polish people were subjected to.
As Nietzche noted - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and Poles (and Russians, Ukrainians, Belorusians) that survived the war and communism are pretty tough as a result - but at the cost of having a crushed sprit and, quite often, losing hope in humanity.
Nah, the ideologies of fatherhood change over time all the time. And even in 1950, many dads would show affection to their children. Even if they would see child caring is female thing, many would be kiss and show love to them.
Also, in small easter european democracies before communism, politician had to kiss kids and at least pretends he likes them. Otherwise people assumed he is bad person. They valued family a lot.
One has to keep in mind and that a lot of what people think about is he past is from Britain due to its dominance. Britain has long had a very strict form of child raising. That has been part of the culture.
In Norway, where this is from, one generally believed in milder treatment of both children and prisoners than British. Physical punishment got banned much earlier.
My mother who grew up in the 1950s Norway always describe her father as exceptionally kind. He would spend time in the basement making doll house and doll furniture for my mother and her sister.
He did not have much money but would get my mom oil paint so she could learn to paint.
If any of the boys in her street was mean to my mom or her sister, her dad would be there right on the spot.
I'm the family's unofficial archivist so I inherited a bunch of 8mm reels from the 1950s and most of the camcorder tapes.
This candid pictures remind me of those 1950s reels.
Since film cameras were new back then, almost everyone in the videos ignored the cameras and carried on with their normal activities. Just normal real life. Those videos are very natural.
As the decades pass, people start reacting to the video cameras differently. Videos from the 1980s and 1990s are full of "say hello to the camera scenes" when people unnaturally turn to the camera and say hello to it or make faces to it.
In the 2010s, cameras become smaller people start showing their best sides when the camera is nearby, like an automatic instagram pose style reflex.
NRK (Norwegian state broadcaster) published an article this summer with some more images [0], including of some public figures in Oslo at the time like Henrik Ibsen.
round film plate. no cassette, just round emulsified glass. six-exposure 14cm or four-exposure 17cm depending on model. exposure is allegedly adjustable somehow, but i'm not sure of the mechanism. plate loads into an internal frame with masks, advanced by the center dial, not sure how masks align.
many more of his photos and some images of the camera and exposed plates here
The 1890s were a rare break in great power conflict, but they were only a few decades after the civil war, Imperialism was in full swing, and there were still plenty of wars. In general, there has not been a more peaceful time than the present.
There were plenty of world wars before WWI. WWI was simply the first in which America played a major role. The empires fought each other across the planet long before America was a thing. Nearly every country was repeatedly involved in these conflicts. War was not an unussual thing then nor now.
"The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of major global conflicts pitting the French Empire and its allies, led by Napoleon I, against a fluctuating array of European powers formed into various coalitions."
"The Seven Years' War (1756–1763) is widely considered to be the first global conflict in history, and was a struggle for world supremacy between Great Britain and France."
You can find articles that explain various reasons why people don't smile in old photographs, at least when they know they are being photographed. Mimicking what they saw in paintings seems the most likely to me. The advertising around cameras and photos tended to make them painting like, and had more serious subject matter. Though other reasons are cited too...bad teeth, inertia from when exposure times had to be long, etc.
So the smiles could just be the effect of them not knowing they were being photographed.
> “When he was a young man at Oslo University he fell in love with a lady whom he did not know and with whom he was too bashful to become acquainted,” writes his biographer. “Wishing at least to have a picture of her, he decided that this was possible only by taking a photograph of her himself, without her knowing.”
There's a pretty, young lady[1] that seems to appear in many of the photos! I was thinking exactly that this was the reason, a teenager in love mischievously taking hidden photos of his love interest, and then just rolling along with it and taking pics everywhere :D
There's likely no space for cars (e.g. parking), since it's an old city center. If there is, it's expensive. People that live in older city centers usually don't have a car, a bicycle and public transit gets them far enough.
That street in particular has been closed for all traffic except buses and trams (and necessary service cars I guess, like the parked van on street view). On [1] you can see Stortingsgata labeled in blue as "kolletivgate" (collective street). As the graphic shows most streets at the very core of the city have been closed to general traffic, the bluish streets are mostly only public transportation and the pinkish streets are mostly pedestrian and bike lanes. Outside the core you see more cars on the roads.
to be fair it's most likely rich people pictured, I would love to see same spy photos from village, I would bet my money people would not be wearing such fancy suits and hats as these urbanites
[1] is a video from a couple decades later (1914) that shows more of the urban middle or lower class folks of Kristiania (it wouldn't be called Oslo until 1925).
well it's still same Oslo, just under different name, definitely not a village, but yeah those market shots seem closer to reality of majority I guess judging by sellers/kids
you read at least the title right, it's SPY cam, so obviously if someone is taking secret photo of you, you don't smile for camera and we don't know who are these people, if it's complete strangers or his acquintances, though some of the photos are clearly staged anyway
you could get same reaction even nowadays depending on country, obviously you wouldn't have much success in Eastern Europe, where (many) people consider smiling at stranger as sign of mental illness (at least if it's same gender)
> you read at least the title right, it's SPY cam, so obviously if someone is taking secret photo of you, you don't smile for camera and we don't know who are these people, if it's complete strangers or his acquintances, though some of the photos are clearly staged anyway
I think you misunderstood their point. In the past people who knew they were about to get photographed tended not to smile. Now people tend to smile.
TheSocialAndrew perceives that people now tend not to smile at strangers where as these candid photos show people a hundred years ago smiling at strangers.
I disagree, back then people were smiling to strangers and not to camera, now people smile in both situations, he was greeting these people so obviously if he greeted them with smile people smiled back, I doubt you would have any different result nowadays from most likely good looking well dressed 19yo kid.
That's fine. I am not arguing one way or the other. My point is that it is easier to get a response if you focus on the main point of disagreement.
In this case, the disagreement is, 'Is it common nowadays to smile at strangers on the street in Oslo, Norway (Where the original pictures were taken)?'
TheSocialAndrew says no, Markoff says yes.
Edit: Maybe a better question would be, 'Where in the world is it currently common to smile at strangers?'
Somewhat unrelated question that I could probably Google, but I figured it's more interesting to hear your take.
Why do people on old pictures look like they're from a completely different era? They look like they're from the 1800s. Is it the camera, the clothing or did they actually look slightly different from us? Or perhaps it's just an illusion?
Realistically I wouldn't expect humans' appearance to change that much in 100 years?
Could be modern lenses, filters, and/or touchups (i.e. photoshop) that distort images in a (typically) flattering way and distort some people's perception of "normal" photographs, since it's all pretty ubiquitous. Cell phones apply all sorts of processing effects, starting with the lense.
For me it's usually more the quality of the film/print/color/etc. Most 70s pics have a certain color/tone/hue/saturation that says '70s'. 60s too. And so on. There may be easier determinations between 1920s and 1930s pics, perhaps, but not quickly to my eye.
What's interesting about these is that... they're candid. Most 1800s photos were people explicitly sitting for a photo. Not smiling. Sitting, posing, very grim. Many of these pics showed people being natural - smiling, chatting to each other, etc. Normal human stuff.
The disturbing thing for me is that I noticed that special atmosphere/patina in 70s photos when I was a teenager in the 90s, but now I can see something analogous in pictures from the 90s.
In 2050s they'll look at today's smart phone selfies and wonder why people liked these smooth skin auto glamour edited fakes so much. Then the androids will chuckle to themselves and move on.
They'll probably do societal studies to determine if it helped with mating, just like how we analyze those colorful birds dancing weirdly in the forest.
Aside from photo technology and clothes, there's hair and facial hair styles which make a big difference. Look at people from the 80s compared to now in color photographs for examples.
People aged differently "back then" too. If you look at people in their 20s from many decades ago, possibly particularly during war eras, peopled seemed to just age faster. Soldiers in photos look nothing like baby-face soldiers from the modern era (when I was enlisted).
I mean, look at George Lazenby in his role as James Bond; how old do you think he was?
He was 30 years old. He looks closer to his 50's if he were alive now. He was a heavy smoker and in Malboro adverts, possibly lots of tanning as well, etc. Lifestyle differences and experiences are a big factor.
I thought this too, until I saw the pictures in the TFA.
They literally look exactly the same as people from our times.
Now I look at "1800s pictures" on some search engine's images, and they look completely different.
I'm gonna guess it's a mix of: doctoring/"touching up," camera, lighting, and cognizant angling/positioning of the people in question.
The candid shots look like people I would see on the street. While the stereotypical "1800s pictures" look like something I'd find on Instagram: completely alien to reality.
No it's not usually "the fine article". That is just a euphemism.
TFA originates from RTFM, which stands for "read the fucking manual". And it is "fucking" and not "fine", because people would be frustrated by noobs not reading manuals.
It is always funny when people try to euphemism things to avoid obscene or scary ideas spoken out loud.
My pet peeve is a 'lottery factor', because even if a guy would win $$$m you still can at least try to talk to him. You can't talk to a bus factored person.
And you don't see the obvious link between people saying RTFM! because someone didn't read the manual, and people saying "RTFA" or "it's in TFA" because people are writing comments on an article when they clearly didn't read it?
These acronyms are born out of frustration and not cordial conversation. Again using "fine" instead of "fucking" is just a euphemism. It is not the original nor correct phrase, and it doesn't make sense for it to be anything other than "fucking".
While that's 100% correct as the origin of the acronym, it should be noted that using TFA doesn't necessarily imply any frustration or condescension. It may, but often or usually these days it really is just shorthand for "the article" and nothing more.
Yeah there's a number of people nowadays that will dress up in period dress, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Same with films set in those times, the wardrobe department does a great job and if they would record in period cameras you wouldn't be able to tell it's a 'modern' person.
When I first stepped afoot in the US (Newark Airport) in 1999 I saw more grossly overweight people in the first half hour than I had in the last half year in Norway. Easily.
Coming from Oslo, Norway, going to a dev conference. Cultures were very, very different then.
I absolutely loved walking up and down the streets of Boston though, it was simply amazing. I'll always be a bit sad I couldn't organise a visa for going there; instead I ended up down under - not a bad plan B!
May I offer a guess about you personally? From your question, I’m guessing that you’re fairly young, possibly under 30 years old. I’m only guessing this, because, as people age, they begin to see the similarities instead of the differences when looking at old photos of people. Younger people tend to react the way you do to these kinds of photos.
I suspect a large part of it is caused by facial expressions and how the people pose. Having your picture taken was very serious business, so no smiles were allowed. Show your most serious, regal pose.
If you look at the "Happiest man in China" photo, it doesn't look like an old photo - it looks like a modern photo of somebody dressed up in old time clothes. There is no hard evidence, but many people believe that the man just wasn't aware of how people were expected to pose for a picture.
Originally shutter speeds were very, very long (and that lasted decades for more budget equipment), so smiling was generally a bad idea as people couldn't hold their smiles for so long and would just be blurred weirdly.
That probably influenced how people thought photos should be posed for, even when shorter and more reasonable shutter speeds were the norm.
One thing during that area is tooth health. Almost everyone had severe issues with their teeth. Rotten black teeth were not an uncommon thing back then. People were aware of that and avoided opening their mouth.
It's part clothing, and for men different facial hair, and for women far less/different makeup, and the fact that the picture is black and white and grainy has a bit of an effect too.
Also different attitudes and culture - it affects how they stand and walk, and even probably to a certain extent facial expressions are expressed more often than others.
Interesting thing is how I kept subconsciously trying to identify where in St Petersburg each of these was taken — the architecture and overall appearance of Oslo at the time was so similar apparently.
That's a neat observation, the cities do have a similar history.
The medieval town called Oslo burned down in 1624, and a new city was founded on the other side of the bay. It was named Christiania after the monarch Christian. It kept that name until 1925 when they changed it back to the old historical name Oslo.
Some decades later, the Russian monarch Peter would also found a new city, which happened to have his name in it. So these two cities were being constructed at around the same time and taking design and architectural inspirations from the same places I would imagine.
I do wonder if this would have been considered creepy back then. Assuming such cameras weren't as prevalent as they are today, it certainly feels like people would have been creeped out if they'd found out about this.
Anyway, love the pictures! I'm glad the student decided to be creepy.
I'm grateful for the images of predecessors, captured when they were going about their daily lives. t looked like they were in the main happy to be alive.
211 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 214 ms ] threadI love it when photos from this era occasionally emerge showing people acting naturally. We're so used to seeing the vast majority of Victorian photographs showing dour-faced people sitting or standing stiffly to attention, that it's sometimes difficult to believe they had human emotions, just like us.
[0] https://youtu.be/Jp1qWV5OZec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ1OgQL9_Cw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo_eZuOTBNc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQs5VxNPhzk
Also even the framerate is often wrong as these old movies didn't have consistent framerates. They were hand cranked so the framerate varied quite a bit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.425502,-123.3676965,3a,21.3y...
https://youtu.be/Jp1qWV5OZec?t=94
But there is green lining added to the river at least. That river looked very sad in 1902.
The actual noise levels may have been higher. Regardless, I think the main reason is ventilation. With coal and wood heating streets were designed to act as valleys pushing air through. Also, I hard that old European cities were built with airflow in mind. Whole streets were uninterrupted with trees while some have them.
Also I heard an opinion that Wrocław is one of the most polluted cities because it got a lot of new buildings that break the airflow on main streets.
The background for the regulation was the switch from unregulated wood buildings to requiring mainly brick as building material - there were some major fires before using bricks became the law.
I live just around the corner from one of the photos - the building in that photo hasn't changed much since back then.
Aren't they in Oslo?
That seems quite specific. How do you tell?
From what I see it's probably not winter (lack of snow), not autumn (lack of leaves on the ground). But that still leaves a pretty long time period with a bigger range of temperatures.
Apparently the average temperature in 1890 was 1.3 C colder than it is now.
Source: Born and living in Oslo.
Well, that's fairly short by U.S. standards, at least when counting 20+ C weather, which in many states is nearly 6 months of the year, with summer heat lasting well through September in many places.
Even places south of Norway, like Netherlands, still considered pretty far north for many in the world, have relatively 'short' summers as well.
Suits are always too many layers
https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/s...
Source: Among other things, I've sat for a tintype portrait before. https://twitter.com/aaronbrethorst/photo
(Also, photography was invented in the 19th century. I'm not sure why you make such sweeping claims about a whole century when exposures went from taking hours to fractions of a second over the course of it.)
I think the reason is different, because even I, as a kid in the early 1980s, was taken to a photo shop for "official shots", well dressed and told to behave. It was a bit unnatural, yes. People in staged shots are generally a little stiff.
However, you're incorrect about the lack of usage in the timeframe specified: "Tintypes enjoyed their widest use during the 1860s and 1870s, but lesser use of the medium persisted into the early 20th century" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintype
Besides, the GP comment referred to the era, to which I was responding.
Your explanation is not without merit, however: "One common explanation for the lack of smiles in old photos is that long exposure times — the time a camera needs to take a picture — made it important for the subject of a picture to stay as still as possible. That way, the picture wouldn't look blurry." — https://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8365997/smile-old-photographs
Why on earth did they have people stand like grim statues for those staged photographs? I thought it was because exposure times were extreme with those early cameras but this kinda proves it wasn't? 1890s, those must be among the first photographs, ever.
Perhaps this persisted as habit even after the development of colloidal photography?
Yeah, I am even now a little suspicious of the photos authenticity for this reason.
But the technical basis was definitely on top of the game at the time, under the given conditions.
Smiling for photographs is a social behavior that took time to catch on.
https://historyofyesterday.com/the-unsettling-victorian-trad...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspenders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_braces
This has been the source of some comic misunderstandings, whereby an American bloke says they are/like wearing suspenders, and the listener then assumes they are coming out as transvestite.
Though I discovered that Outback hat makes walking in the Seattle rain quite pleasant!
Oh, and nobody cares what you wear on your head.
Also carrying Sun Umbrellas is totally fine as well!
Wear hats. Hats are cool.
I'm not so sure most people in Oslo would have agreed it was "acceptable" but he didn't care, and it's not like anyone would call him out on it.
I'm in my late 40's now, and kinda want to wear a hat but I think I'll pick something which stands out less.
You can see various expressions, some which say “and a good day to YOU young man” from some of the older guys to a “hmmph good day” from some of the well dressed women.
https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/s...
...with one expressing a coy "oh, hi" and the other with the frumpy look-of-disapproval.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv6Tuq1Dkfk
But those two photos are definitely the best for me.
Why wouldn't fathers, in general, be affectionate? The Bible (to take a very old book) if full of fatherly affection. Take the story of Abraham and his son to be sacrificed. The story has always been shocking because the reader knows the son was so wanted and loved and empathizes.
Even the prejudice isn't universal. Italians don't have this conception of cold fathers 100 years ago.
Could it be a protestant thing? Possibly except the Norwegians in this set are themselves Protestants.
I would chalk up the image of a cold, distant father, to the generational shock of 31 years of slaughter in Europe (1914-1945). Some blame Bismarck and his quest to make perfect soldiers through universal education (and the export of the Prussian model).
But, really, the past is not as bad as it is depicted. Life was tougher, but there was love, laughter, loyalty, beauty, and friendship. I suspect more so than today.
It might be a fabrication, but then its fantasy and not deliberate. You see, it really is the other way around with respect to my comment. My suspicions about the past are what drives me politically.
Obviously we are better than our forefathers in many things - listing them would be trite. But, on the whole, are we better off (never mind better)? These pictures were taken before industrialized genocide, world wars, atomic weapons, the mass adoption and molding of our cities around the automobile.
Right now every living creature on earth is on a knife’s edge of total destruction through nuclear or environmental disaster. If this is, on the whole, industrial progress I don't want it.
> Respecting Nature's laws and abhorring religions.
I have several family members who lived in Britain for years back in the day. They all describe the treatment of children in ways what would horrify Norwegians.
I live in an immigrant area of Oslo with many Muslims. They are known to be more strict with children. But even they remark on how strict British is. My neighbor had her daughter on exchange in Britain and her daughter describe the host family as very strict. They are not used to that behavior from growing up in Norway.
In which case, you *must* read Roald Dahl's autobiography 'Boy' (and the follow up, 'Going Solo'). He moved from Norway as a child into the English public school system, and a treatment that horrified his parents.
Incidentally, the biographies are aimed at children but very cleverly written to appeal to adults. For example, he describes a school teacher (in the 1920's) who would occasionally jump and twitch in class, making startled noises. The children found out he had something called "shell shock" and decided that this meant a shell must have exploded so close to him that he jumped so high he hadn't stopped jumping........ Interesting and funny to read as a child, but this works on another level when you read it as an adult.
British grammar school is brutal.
(EDIT) Oh man there's an even more adorable pic of them rolling around too! https://www.boredpanda.com/spy-camera-secret-street-photogra...
It’s really fascinating, but losing millions of fathers in the war and then the post trauma strict parenting have had knock on effects we are still dealing with.
They became really harsh people, and the population of most of Russia and current-day Belarus, Poland, Ukraine etc have a very characteristic attitude towards other people and countries that's completely contaminated by those memories.
As Nietzche noted - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and Poles (and Russians, Ukrainians, Belorusians) that survived the war and communism are pretty tough as a result - but at the cost of having a crushed sprit and, quite often, losing hope in humanity.
Also, in small easter european democracies before communism, politician had to kiss kids and at least pretends he likes them. Otherwise people assumed he is bad person. They valued family a lot.
In Norway, where this is from, one generally believed in milder treatment of both children and prisoners than British. Physical punishment got banned much earlier.
My mother who grew up in the 1950s Norway always describe her father as exceptionally kind. He would spend time in the basement making doll house and doll furniture for my mother and her sister.
He did not have much money but would get my mom oil paint so she could learn to paint.
If any of the boys in her street was mean to my mom or her sister, her dad would be there right on the spot.
Not 100% sure either way, but that may also be his son. Young boys also wore dress-like clothing during those times.
This candid pictures remind me of those 1950s reels.
Since film cameras were new back then, almost everyone in the videos ignored the cameras and carried on with their normal activities. Just normal real life. Those videos are very natural.
As the decades pass, people start reacting to the video cameras differently. Videos from the 1980s and 1990s are full of "say hello to the camera scenes" when people unnaturally turn to the camera and say hello to it or make faces to it.
In the 2010s, cameras become smaller people start showing their best sides when the camera is nearby, like an automatic instagram pose style reflex.
[0] https://www.nrk.no/kultur/xl/carl-stormer_-studenten-som-sni...
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Stirn_Concealed_Vest_Camera
round film plate. no cassette, just round emulsified glass. six-exposure 14cm or four-exposure 17cm depending on model. exposure is allegedly adjustable somehow, but i'm not sure of the mechanism. plate loads into an internal frame with masks, advanced by the center dial, not sure how masks align.
many more of his photos and some images of the camera and exposed plates here
https://www.exibartstreet.com/news/19th-century-street-photo...
The 1890s were a rare break in great power conflict, but they were only a few decades after the civil war, Imperialism was in full swing, and there were still plenty of wars. In general, there has not been a more peaceful time than the present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars
"The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of major global conflicts pitting the French Empire and its allies, led by Napoleon I, against a fluctuating array of European powers formed into various coalitions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War
"The Seven Years' War (1756–1763) is widely considered to be the first global conflict in history, and was a struggle for world supremacy between Great Britain and France."
So the smiles could just be the effect of them not knowing they were being photographed.
Oh, technology.
[1] https://www.boredpanda.com/spy-camera-secret-street-photogra...
https://goo.gl/maps/Pxh1QRzRgdn5Lrhc6
Many times in Street view for London, it is difficult to see the actual street behind the traffic...
[1] https://gfx.nrk.no/NHMVHfHy9jrQCxlLI_D2tAo9jnkLqfcYXajOAEHna...
[1] https://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/5d19ec53f24eb5909b9316a833b90c38....
Now we smile for the camera, but not so much to a stranger.
you could get same reaction even nowadays depending on country, obviously you wouldn't have much success in Eastern Europe, where (many) people consider smiling at stranger as sign of mental illness (at least if it's same gender)
I think you misunderstood their point. In the past people who knew they were about to get photographed tended not to smile. Now people tend to smile.
TheSocialAndrew perceives that people now tend not to smile at strangers where as these candid photos show people a hundred years ago smiling at strangers.
That's fine. I am not arguing one way or the other. My point is that it is easier to get a response if you focus on the main point of disagreement.
In this case, the disagreement is, 'Is it common nowadays to smile at strangers on the street in Oslo, Norway (Where the original pictures were taken)?'
TheSocialAndrew says no, Markoff says yes.
Edit: Maybe a better question would be, 'Where in the world is it currently common to smile at strangers?'
Why do people on old pictures look like they're from a completely different era? They look like they're from the 1800s. Is it the camera, the clothing or did they actually look slightly different from us? Or perhaps it's just an illusion?
Realistically I wouldn't expect humans' appearance to change that much in 100 years?
What's interesting about these is that... they're candid. Most 1800s photos were people explicitly sitting for a photo. Not smiling. Sitting, posing, very grim. Many of these pics showed people being natural - smiling, chatting to each other, etc. Normal human stuff.
Generally it's a shame that real HDR photos (not merged exposures, but "Dolby Vision for photos") ain't the norm yet.
If you've ever seen a colourised and touched-up photo from the early 20th century, the only giveaway is the clothes.
People aged differently "back then" too. If you look at people in their 20s from many decades ago, possibly particularly during war eras, peopled seemed to just age faster. Soldiers in photos look nothing like baby-face soldiers from the modern era (when I was enlisted).
He was 30 years old. He looks closer to his 50's if he were alive now. He was a heavy smoker and in Malboro adverts, possibly lots of tanning as well, etc. Lifestyle differences and experiences are a big factor.
They literally look exactly the same as people from our times.
Now I look at "1800s pictures" on some search engine's images, and they look completely different.
I'm gonna guess it's a mix of: doctoring/"touching up," camera, lighting, and cognizant angling/positioning of the people in question.
The candid shots look like people I would see on the street. While the stereotypical "1800s pictures" look like something I'd find on Instagram: completely alien to reality.
And the humility that it recommends.
Have a nice day!
TFA originates from RTFM, which stands for "read the fucking manual". And it is "fucking" and not "fine", because people would be frustrated by noobs not reading manuals.
My pet peeve is a 'lottery factor', because even if a guy would win $$$m you still can at least try to talk to him. You can't talk to a bus factored person.
These acronyms are born out of frustration and not cordial conversation. Again using "fine" instead of "fucking" is just a euphemism. It is not the original nor correct phrase, and it doesn't make sense for it to be anything other than "fucking".
Coming from Oslo, Norway, going to a dev conference. Cultures were very, very different then.
I absolutely loved walking up and down the streets of Boston though, it was simply amazing. I'll always be a bit sad I couldn't organise a visa for going there; instead I ended up down under - not a bad plan B!
1) the technology used to take the image (or video!)
2) the fashion of the subjects - Fashion includes more than just cloths.
3) the overall aesthetics of the scenery around the human subjects.
If you look at the "Happiest man in China" photo, it doesn't look like an old photo - it looks like a modern photo of somebody dressed up in old time clothes. There is no hard evidence, but many people believe that the man just wasn't aware of how people were expected to pose for a picture.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2017/09/story-behind...
That probably influenced how people thought photos should be posed for, even when shorter and more reasonable shutter speeds were the norm.
Also different attitudes and culture - it affects how they stand and walk, and even probably to a certain extent facial expressions are expressed more often than others.
It's only when the faces are small or blurry do they look old.
The medieval town called Oslo burned down in 1624, and a new city was founded on the other side of the bay. It was named Christiania after the monarch Christian. It kept that name until 1925 when they changed it back to the old historical name Oslo.
Some decades later, the Russian monarch Peter would also found a new city, which happened to have his name in it. So these two cities were being constructed at around the same time and taking design and architectural inspirations from the same places I would imagine.
I do wonder if this would have been considered creepy back then. Assuming such cameras weren't as prevalent as they are today, it certainly feels like people would have been creeped out if they'd found out about this.
Anyway, love the pictures! I'm glad the student decided to be creepy.
I'm grateful for the images of predecessors, captured when they were going about their daily lives. t looked like they were in the main happy to be alive.
I mean there's plenty of European 'old' city centers that are effectively inaccessible by car, doesn't mean they're quiet.