The company I work for is one of the top employers in my country/region.
Top in terms of pay/culture/getting recognized/opportunities for growth/benefits.
There are maybe 5 other companies that can compete on everything, except maybe culture. I'm very happy where I am, and risking moving to a new place for basically the same thing seems pointless.
I really love my job. I believe in the product (it's open source), coworkers are great, management and leadership are excellent. Compensation is competitive, and I enjoy the problems I'm solving. I have no plans nor reason to leave.
IMO a worthy poll option would be the modern developer interview process. Even if I was interested in looking for a new opportunity I wouldn't want to go through that unless I really had to.
I applied at 3 jobs at once last year, two sent me take home coding tests, one just asked questions during the interview. I took the offer for that one.
I know a tech recruiter, one person he was interviewing refused to do a further interview with the hiring manager because there was no technical test as part to the role he was recruiting for...
I feel stuck. I am a C-level executive but dread every day of my job. I want to change careers at this point but have a family that depends on my income to get by. However, the company I work for is actually really great, I just happen to be burnt out.
I doubt they depend on your income as much as they are used to a certain type of life. Do you think your family could get by with less in exchange for a happier family member?
Most definitely. It feels selfish in some ways to make my family change their lifestyle just because I'm whining that I hate my job. On the other hand my wife tells me this exact thing all the time.
Wish you best. Grass is always greener, but, as crap as it is, income and savings can be greenest.
Edit: Saw you deleted your post...
Long ways to go but you're crushing it... I'm not sure your location, income, or potential equity pay-day opportunities, but your monthly overhead is quite low for the family of 5 - congrats that is so huge.
A long time ago, I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. I did it because I was in college, but for most of my co-workers, it was their permanent 9-5. As ruthless as it sounds, in their world, these minor irrelevant/annoying day-to-day things such as a SKEW/PLU not in the system, running low on bags, or someone being slow for a cash drop became these world-shaking miserable events that could totally make or break their day. I guess what I'm trying to say is people create these boxed realities and define their own problems on what makes the day great or not. I remind myself often to "realign" what matters. The easiest route? Stop caring and take things a little less seriously. Your day will get exponentially better and your day-to-day stresses can become less important. The world is not going to stop spinning.
Obviously there is no good answer on burn out or you wouldn't be here. I personally found having a super passionate hobby helped (you can force something for you to obsess over every single day and week that is not work or even family related). Then find budget to outsource as many other things in your life as possible to make your plate tiny (e.g.: stop looking at bills for a year if your wife can wrangle solo, long-term financial plan go yolo blind with a trusted advisor, annoying chores like cleaning or maintenance pay for, etc...). You can't control it all... so just make your world as small as possible for what you can personally manage. Then of course working out and go cold-turkey on pr0n. Getting on a super strict schedule if you aren't already too can help. It sucks, but no late nights and no missed early mornings.
Change in my experience is always good, even if you are making the wrong choice. Just changing a setting on where you work from in the office or at home can make the world of difference. You could just say F that job and just do something else even if it's the same role somewhere else, and I promise you it will be 100% better. Maybe try that before blowing it all up to a less-paying job or doing a complete industry bail.
Burn out is like an injury of the mind and took me a full year to recover and "realign". The passionate young-buck mojo mindset you probably compare with is never coming back to a full 100% so get used to it and be reasonable about your injury.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Your words got to me. I promise it will get better and easier. Best of luck and hope you see this and helps just 1%.
Sorry for deleting, after I posted I couldn't decide if it is good to put that out there or not so I decided to pull it back, but it looks like you got the info needed out of it.
I really appreciate the kind words. I was thinking similar things about the people from the grocery store - when I worked menial jobs I would get stressed over silly things. I think that is just my personality type. I think I need to quit taking the job and myself so seriously.
I really need to start working out, I'm sure that would make a huge difference in my mental health. I'm sure going cold-turkey off prOn would also help with some mental health healing as well.
I'm bipolar to boot which makes these decisions harder to make since I can't decide if I am being rational or over-reacting to something. I think trying somewhere new could be beneficial. I've been at this company for nearly 7 years which is a damn long time in the software industry.
Listen to your wife here, the subtext of that comment might be that your employment is straining your relationship. I had to learn the same lesson recently, and with three kids, you have too much to lose to ignore any warning signs there. Have you ever sat down and really taken a look at what lifestyle compromises you'd have to make? It might be fairly superficial. Cook at home a few more times a week, make it a family thing. It isn't all downside living a bit more humbly.
Did you really raise your lifestyle to some kind of regular 7-figure burn? Seems insane to me to do such. Outside of a mortgage - I feel like most things at that level are… extremely nice to have and not really necessity. I know many who do the private schools, exotic vacations, nice cars, etc etc. Their burn outside mortgage is still not anywhere near 7-fig. So… what ya doing that’s so insanely expensive? Buying a new GT2RS every year or something?
I get up each morning excited to go to work, and this is after being here for 6 years. I keep waiting for the honeymoon phase to wear off, but it keeps going.
I'm doing important work, I'm surrounded by smart people, and I have the support of the company to grow my career in the direction(s) I'd like to take it. They'd have to pry me out of this job with a crowbar.
I work for amino-dot-com, a healthcare/financial wellness startup. Elevator pitch: big companies contract with us to tell their employees which doctors they should go to and how much it'll cost, and we'll even book the appointment for them.
WOW. I envy your position and am happy for you. I miss that so much. Only thing keeping me around is flexible hours, but even that wears off when the meaning of my life’s work looks: purposeless.
I know I've got it good, and I don't take it for granted. One significant downside of being at a small company is that we don't have FAANG salaries. I'll absolutely settle for a really good salary plus an amazing work environment over ludicrous salary with the downsides of working for a giant corporation.
We have regular evaluations where each employee is matched against a career ladder document we have. If you meet all (or most, with no red flags) of the criteria, you get a promotion. We’re going through a process with a consultant now to compare our salary ranges for each level with other companies like us, with the plan to adjust everyone’s comp to match the new levels.
I’ve gotten substantial promotions and raises as I’ve worked my way up the ladder, and I’m pretty sure most/all of my coworkers have, too. The last thing we want is to have someone feel that they’ve hit a cap here. If someone’s awesome and growing in their career, that’s exactly the kind of person you want to stick around.
I'm finishing my second year at my very first programming job. This is the only real employment I've had in my career path and I'm proud to have gotten it. It's a small/medium sized company, I think we're around 60-70 people. I wouldn't say I'm being compensated as equally as engineers that live in the same place I do, but I enjoy the people I work with most of all. I'd rather have that then go to a bigger company with more salary, with a possibility of not enjoying the people. Devil I know is better than the devil I don't I suppose
It offers unconditional full tuition remission for a masters degree I just started. Other than that - I dont know what else to pursue and I dont seem to gel in any work environment other than the one Im in. No pursuit is interesting when I depend on it for income.
Inertia and/or fear. Health issues mean that if I leave my position and I find out my new position is more demanding, I'm fucked. I have a mortgage to pay.
I am getting kind of sick and tired of the pressure though. Partly put on by myself, partly put on by expectation of continued excellence in face of stressful deadlines.
Seems like my story. Also being in a country (middle east) where you are dependent on the employment visa gives you little room to experiment or take chances. One wrong move and your life changes. You'd have to go back to your own country and start over again. Nevertheless the fault lies with me for not trying as well.
There's also "accumulated trust built up with coworkers" (perhaps a subset of "enjoy coworkers"), "don't want to reset the parental leave clock", and "have family and hence no time to learn a whole new problem domain".
I am in a role now as a Director of Engg. I see my tech skills dropping and not as sharp as they used to. I am focusing more on managerial skills. So, my opportunities are also less outside with Immigration as an added bonus.
I imagine for most people it's an interplay between most things being at least "good enough" and the effort/risk (things don't always work out) of job hunting and starting in a new place in a possibly new role.
Because I fucking hate the interview process. Video interview, phone screen, take home test, management interview, team interview, dozen technical interviews. It's a full-time job to look for another job. So the slightly annoying job I have is way less annoying than searching for another one.
Have an upvote, was going to post the exact same reply. The tech interview process is so irritating, so friction-filled, and ultimately so random in outcome that it doesn't seem worth it for maybe a ~1% bump. Grind leetcode. Apply at 100 companies. Get 10 call backs. Go through the whiteboard hazing rituals and ghosting. Maybe get 1 offer. Back when I was 25-30, maybe I'd expect a double-digit percent bump for all that work, but now, I'm pretty much at the ceiling, and the great pain of interviewing just doesn't seem worth it.
I had one unforgettable experience where the company strung the process along for 3 months. And then they forgot about it. Called me back to restart the interview process. I tagged their emails as SPAM (accidentally, but in retrospect correct) and moved on.
The last one was 2 quick phone calls the same week. The third call was what laptop I wanted and where should the send it.
Exactly that. Interviewing has become so ridiculous, it's not worth it. One has to wonder if there isn't collusion among larger companies to make the process so painful to reduce employee turnover and consequently also salaries.
I was working in tech in the 90s and interviewing was just a chat on what I'd like to do, what they need done and if it looked like a match, let's do it. And I'll argue that jobs were more technically difficult then (assembly language, C, kernel work, attention to optimization since hardware was slow, etc) compared to the typical job these days of gluing AWS components together for yet another CRUD app functionally identical to every other.
Interviewing at top tech companies hasn't changed much in at least 30 years.
One of my first job interviews, in the early 90s, I had to sit in front of a computer and write some assembly. Probably did it in on the computer because the company didn't have a whiteboard.
Personally I've been suspicious of any company that just did a chat for an interview
That's very different from my experience. In the 90s I interviewed for a top research labs organization (Bell) and for the highest flying tech company (Sun) and both interviews were very casual chats about interest and goals. Got offers from both, accepted both.
Full-time job to look for another job...while you work your full-time job might I add. I get home and gag a little when I look at my computer. The last thing I want to do is paperwork when I get home from slave labor. cough I mean work*...
I want to give a different experience, been through job interviews recently in Europe for a software development job, and it was a breeze, I just put the #opentowork tag on LinkedIn and applied for just one job.
At the end I got 5 offers to choose from out of the 8 companies I was doing interviews with, and I would've probably got all 8 offers if they didn't give a time limit to get back to them.
All of this took me about 2 hours a day of work, but I have to admit that these are all startup/medium level companies, if you're looking to get into FAANG that's another story.
I took the leap, left a startup 3 months ago to be a full-time interviewee.
Personal top priority is to get to an established company with attractive talent and tech which comes with a high barrier of entry.
There are zero ways I could have done these interviews (esp in parallel) pre-covid, or at all if I: had a job that required my physical presence, had children, required healthcare, had debt, was single, didn't make enough to save for this unemployment, had an addiction, ...
Would love to see some far-futured economic analysis where we find out for every $1 we invest in helping and educating our public, we get $10 back through taxes or services.
I'm absolutely god-awful at technical interviews. Avoiding many hours of tedious interview practice is the one and only thing keeping me from finding a higher paying and more satisfying job. Which is too bad, because otherwise I am a fantastic interviewee and I'm very eager to dive into a new role somewhere interesting.
The only 2 I didn't hit was "Started recently" and "Golden handcuffs"
I'm VERY lucky to be where I am. The work, the people, the company, nearly everything is VERY good. I'm not retiring SOON, but soon enough to think I'm not really interested in starting over again unless I must. Hoping I can retire from here!
I might be able to make more someplace else? I'm not even sure. But it would need to be A LOT more to make it worth to even consider moving.
I can't find a better job. I can easily find a job that pays more money, but I can't find a job that checks all the boxes.
1. Not an immoral business. (My moral standard is extremely high.)
2. Pays more.
3. As much or more PTO as I have now. (I have a lot, relative to the US at least)
4. No more than 40 hours of work a week under any circumstance.
5. Stable business, not some startup that will disappear in two seconds.
6. Needs/wants the skills that I have.
Recruiters contact me off the hook. It's extremely rare that any job posting even passes the morality test.
Not the person you asked, but for me: fintech, adtech, anything trying to track people or coerce them into doing something they don't want. Anything that enables rich assholes to get richer and more assholish. Anything that helps companies get away with being dicks to the planet or to poor people. Anything cryptocurrency related.
Although even with that list, it's not that rare that jobs pass the morality test. For me it's more about the fact that virtually every company in existence is just plain boring. They're doing boring payment facilitation or a boring knockoff of another boring product. They're just not contributing anything to society at all, have seemingly no reason to exist, and just feel like something an MBA came up with by filling out the "start a company Mad-libs" book his archaic business school gave him upon graduation.
Defense, advertising, finance, MLM, crypto, and gambling are the major ones that I can describe with a single word each. There are many many more, though.
107 comments
[ 20.2 ms ] story [ 185 ms ] threadTop in terms of pay/culture/getting recognized/opportunities for growth/benefits.
There are maybe 5 other companies that can compete on everything, except maybe culture. I'm very happy where I am, and risking moving to a new place for basically the same thing seems pointless.
So unless I move overseas, I'm staying.
I really love my job. I believe in the product (it's open source), coworkers are great, management and leadership are excellent. Compensation is competitive, and I enjoy the problems I'm solving. I have no plans nor reason to leave.
I doubt they depend on your income as much as they are used to a certain type of life. Do you think your family could get by with less in exchange for a happier family member?
Edit: Saw you deleted your post...
Long ways to go but you're crushing it... I'm not sure your location, income, or potential equity pay-day opportunities, but your monthly overhead is quite low for the family of 5 - congrats that is so huge.
A long time ago, I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store. I did it because I was in college, but for most of my co-workers, it was their permanent 9-5. As ruthless as it sounds, in their world, these minor irrelevant/annoying day-to-day things such as a SKEW/PLU not in the system, running low on bags, or someone being slow for a cash drop became these world-shaking miserable events that could totally make or break their day. I guess what I'm trying to say is people create these boxed realities and define their own problems on what makes the day great or not. I remind myself often to "realign" what matters. The easiest route? Stop caring and take things a little less seriously. Your day will get exponentially better and your day-to-day stresses can become less important. The world is not going to stop spinning.
Obviously there is no good answer on burn out or you wouldn't be here. I personally found having a super passionate hobby helped (you can force something for you to obsess over every single day and week that is not work or even family related). Then find budget to outsource as many other things in your life as possible to make your plate tiny (e.g.: stop looking at bills for a year if your wife can wrangle solo, long-term financial plan go yolo blind with a trusted advisor, annoying chores like cleaning or maintenance pay for, etc...). You can't control it all... so just make your world as small as possible for what you can personally manage. Then of course working out and go cold-turkey on pr0n. Getting on a super strict schedule if you aren't already too can help. It sucks, but no late nights and no missed early mornings.
Change in my experience is always good, even if you are making the wrong choice. Just changing a setting on where you work from in the office or at home can make the world of difference. You could just say F that job and just do something else even if it's the same role somewhere else, and I promise you it will be 100% better. Maybe try that before blowing it all up to a less-paying job or doing a complete industry bail.
Burn out is like an injury of the mind and took me a full year to recover and "realign". The passionate young-buck mojo mindset you probably compare with is never coming back to a full 100% so get used to it and be reasonable about your injury.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Your words got to me. I promise it will get better and easier. Best of luck and hope you see this and helps just 1%.
I really appreciate the kind words. I was thinking similar things about the people from the grocery store - when I worked menial jobs I would get stressed over silly things. I think that is just my personality type. I think I need to quit taking the job and myself so seriously.
I really need to start working out, I'm sure that would make a huge difference in my mental health. I'm sure going cold-turkey off prOn would also help with some mental health healing as well.
I'm bipolar to boot which makes these decisions harder to make since I can't decide if I am being rational or over-reacting to something. I think trying somewhere new could be beneficial. I've been at this company for nearly 7 years which is a damn long time in the software industry.
Thanks again, cheers!
I'm doing important work, I'm surrounded by smart people, and I have the support of the company to grow my career in the direction(s) I'd like to take it. They'd have to pry me out of this job with a crowbar.
(I checked your profile to see if I could see where you work : )
Edit: I'm feeling childish but in a good way.
I work for amino-dot-com, a healthcare/financial wellness startup. Elevator pitch: big companies contract with us to tell their employees which doctors they should go to and how much it'll cost, and we'll even book the appointment for them.
One of the things developers often get when changing jobs is a pay rise that they wouldn't get otherwise.
If you don't mind me asking: How does the pay rise process work in your company?
Sorry for a money-focused question.
I’ve gotten substantial promotions and raises as I’ve worked my way up the ladder, and I’m pretty sure most/all of my coworkers have, too. The last thing we want is to have someone feel that they’ve hit a cap here. If someone’s awesome and growing in their career, that’s exactly the kind of person you want to stick around.
I am getting kind of sick and tired of the pressure though. Partly put on by myself, partly put on by expectation of continued excellence in face of stressful deadlines.
Because I fucking hate the interview process. Video interview, phone screen, take home test, management interview, team interview, dozen technical interviews. It's a full-time job to look for another job. So the slightly annoying job I have is way less annoying than searching for another one.
Rant over.
The last one was 2 quick phone calls the same week. The third call was what laptop I wanted and where should the send it.
I was working in tech in the 90s and interviewing was just a chat on what I'd like to do, what they need done and if it looked like a match, let's do it. And I'll argue that jobs were more technically difficult then (assembly language, C, kernel work, attention to optimization since hardware was slow, etc) compared to the typical job these days of gluing AWS components together for yet another CRUD app functionally identical to every other.
At the end I got 5 offers to choose from out of the 8 companies I was doing interviews with, and I would've probably got all 8 offers if they didn't give a time limit to get back to them.
All of this took me about 2 hours a day of work, but I have to admit that these are all startup/medium level companies, if you're looking to get into FAANG that's another story.
There are zero ways I could have done these interviews (esp in parallel) pre-covid, or at all if I: had a job that required my physical presence, had children, required healthcare, had debt, was single, didn't make enough to save for this unemployment, had an addiction, ...
Would love to see some far-futured economic analysis where we find out for every $1 we invest in helping and educating our public, we get $10 back through taxes or services.
I'm VERY lucky to be where I am. The work, the people, the company, nearly everything is VERY good. I'm not retiring SOON, but soon enough to think I'm not really interested in starting over again unless I must. Hoping I can retire from here!
I might be able to make more someplace else? I'm not even sure. But it would need to be A LOT more to make it worth to even consider moving.
1. Not an immoral business. (My moral standard is extremely high.) 2. Pays more. 3. As much or more PTO as I have now. (I have a lot, relative to the US at least) 4. No more than 40 hours of work a week under any circumstance. 5. Stable business, not some startup that will disappear in two seconds. 6. Needs/wants the skills that I have.
Recruiters contact me off the hook. It's extremely rare that any job posting even passes the morality test.
Although even with that list, it's not that rare that jobs pass the morality test. For me it's more about the fact that virtually every company in existence is just plain boring. They're doing boring payment facilitation or a boring knockoff of another boring product. They're just not contributing anything to society at all, have seemingly no reason to exist, and just feel like something an MBA came up with by filling out the "start a company Mad-libs" book his archaic business school gave him upon graduation.