Ask HN: What is your system for backing up family photos and video?

321 points by reisr3 ↗ HN
My extended family has several terabytes of family photos and videos from over the years. We've mostly digitized everything, but some segments are just sitting on external hard drives in closets - waiting to eventually break or become corrupted.

My current methodology for our immediate family is aligned with the common back up advice - one local copy, one off-site copy (at grandma's house,) and one in cloud storage. We're using Google Photos for cloud storage. The easy integration with Nest Hubs makes for nice digital picture frames around the family homes.

What is your system for backing up family photos and videos to stand the test of time? Is it adequate to put everything in cloud storage and forget about it? Do you reassess every couple years and adjust to the new landscape of storage services? Is it unavoidable that we'll be paying $100+/year forever for a [presumably increasing] few terabytes of cloud storage?

Is there a good solution for posterity? For example, once I die, and if my family were to become unable to pay the hosting bill, is there any way to guarantee these heirlooms remain intact and available?

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Basically iCloud plus AWS S3. Every so often I dump old ones into S3, zip them and put them in the glacier instant retrieval tier. Super easy to use (drag and drop) and cheap as hell. I pay less than a dollar per month right now.

You’ll obviously need to leave keys, instructions etc for your next of kin. Or put a hard drive in a safe deposit box.

At this time, I have a local copy split across a Windows and a Mac. Both are backed up to Backblaze Personal plan. When someone from my immediate family wants to view an album, they have to download it. Not ideal at all, but that's our process today.

I don't use Google Photos for privacy concerns.

Now that I use Tailscale, I could consider setting up a NAT at home and make files easily viewable using NextCloud, but I worry I won't backup properly to Backblaze B2. Need to figure out how to schedule backups before I make the switch.

It may be a good product idea to build a box PC with redundant hard drives and ZFS set up in paranoia mode to scrub every so often in order to refresh the data it guards, and configure it with safe defaults such that it works as a vault(not having provisions to run Docker etc.). Want to access photos, hook it up with an ethernet cable and access it like this... Once done, leave it in the closet with power supply. I wonder how many would buy such a box..
Don’t overlook the probability of a fire or burglary or flood causing the loss of everything in the closet. RAID and file system redundancy won’t help in that case. You need multi-site backup anyway, and then file system failures are also covered.
True. Perhaps it should be able to back itself up to something like AWS Glacier or Backblaze B2 such that the data can be retrieved by the owners if they have the encryption key somewhere.
> What is your system for backing up family photos and videos to stand the test of time?

In addition to the other good answers, a box full a printed photos will stand the test of time.

professionally printed ones, yes. However, finding a good print service has become a real hassle and most photos that I printed start to fade after 10ish years.
The anecdata of my random Walgreen photos seem to be holding up pretty well in the living room and hallway environment that they live in. We have some done from their "photo copy" machines from 20 years ago. Mind, I don't have master originals to do a side by side comparison, but using the Mark 1 Eyeball, they look fine. They're doing much better than my 50 year old polaroid.

While I can print photos, it's typically far easier and cheaper to have Walgreens do it.

Every year I do a photo book. Used to use apple but they discontinued the service so now it’s snapfish. It’s a lot of work to create but worth it
I really like the idea of an annual photo book. Might steal this.
I do the same. Whitewall are very good quality. They also make excellent gifts.
I am working on a fully decentralized application to solve this problem. The application is a cross-OS Nodejs app that provides an OS like GUI in the browser to display the file system of the local machine and other trusted machines. Network file copy is currently broken pending completion of a major refactor.

https://github.com/prettydiff/share-file-systems/tree/master...

Also interested in this, but hijacking to ask what folks scanning solution is. My dad has tons of slides, and prints. He’s hesitant to send them off, but we have analysis paralysis on scanners etc.
I did the analysis as well, calculated everything and ended up paying 500 bucks for an external service. Everything else would have cost roughly the same (with buying a good and used slide scanner and selling it afterwards) plus the countless hours for loading and unloading the scanner and retouching, etc. Just use an external service - if he doesn't trust "some online service", I found a lot of small, family-owned businesses in drivable range to go to. They're usually more expensive, but you know where to knock if something goes wrong.
I would suggest you do a test by scanning a few of the newer prints and some of the older prints on any available scanner. See how much dust is on the existing pictures.

When looking at a print physically, a little dust is not distracting. That may change when you digitize it. So you might want to test what condition they are in by testing some of the older and some of the newer ones - maybe some in transparent plastic sleeves, some scattered about and more dusty.

Don't have much advice on what to do if they are dusty, just aware even a little dust can look off-place depending on what is desired.

Try DSLR scanning.
My dad was going to do this himself but it is a massive job. He ultimately sent them to a company and received them back on DVD.

My family even has reel to reel from the 50s or 60s. The problem though is everyone in them has passed on. I am never going to watch video of my great uncle fishing in 1960. Then he is basically a stranger to the next generation.

All this is quite a bit of work for things that will most likely never get watched.

Nextcloud on ZFS + rsync.net with rclone and crypto.
The solution I've used for the last 2-3 years:

1. a cronjob on my android phone (via termux) does an rsync to a VPS

2. the VPS has a cronjob to sync everything with S3

3. the frontoffice tool for people to access those photos is my open source Dropbox like frontend that is bring your own backend: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash My wife and I got an account and family members can access it through shared links.

The S3 bill goes to a shared account so that If I die, the VPS will probably be quickly removed but S3 should stay in there with my wife paying for it.

Regular distributions of printed photos by mail.
I use Amazon cloud and photos are free with Prime. If I get close to 1TB in cloud storage with videos, I back up to local FIFO.
I uh, kinda just don't. I save some pictures to Google drive and otherwise just embrace ephemerality.
Yeah, it may sound strange but my most important memories are smells, and you can't store them yet :(
At least future folks won't have to throw away heavy boxes of our photos, while feeling guilty about it. They just won't bother to recover our cloud accounts, when we die.
I have more than 4 TB lifetime pCloud storage. Best option for storing photos and videos. Better than everything else out there.
Same. I bought their lifetime 4TB + encryption addon during Black Friday. It's enough for all of my personal data, music and some movies / TV series too. And I never have to pay again, which is nice.
Use Google Photos on my android phone, then use gphotos-sync[0] to sync the files to a hard drive on my DIY NAS. Contents of hard drive are periodically backed up with restic[1] to B2[2].

My reasoning is that I don't trust Google to not lock me out of my account at some point, so having both a local and a remote backup gives me piece of mind. I periodically check the offsite backup to check that it's still all working. Total cost for about a terabyte of files (it's not only photos and videos) is about $6/month, which is pretty reasonable.

[0] https://github.com/gilesknap/gphotos-sync

[1] https://restic.net/

[2] https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage.html

I'd love to use the Google photos API but it's really frustrating that Google won't include geolocation data.
Doesn't Google reduce the quality of them all when they're uploaded? Not that it's really material in most use cases but I find myself having to do manual backups from my phone.
Nope - you can switch between "Original quality" and "Storage saver".
I have about 6Tb of photos and videos that are stored on an on-site TrueNas Server. This includes my raw files, lightroom library and edits.

TrueNas is configured to automatically backup to Backblaze B2 (which is off-site).

After editing, all the exported JPGs are stored on Google Photos and shared with family. I like Google photos because of the content search and face detection features.

So that's 1 on-site medium and 2 off-site mediums. I used to burn the photos to archival disks and place them in the bank, but it got tedious.

Edit: I use Backblaze because it's the cheapest. Most Photo storage providers don't have support for Raw files. (If anyone has a recommendation let me know).

I use a NAS and cloud storage. I recently got a new Synology NAS and, since it supports Docker, it’s straightforward to run nearly whatever software you want.

They have a decent enough Photos app for browsing / sharing photos.

For offsite backup, I send to B2 which is ridiculously cheap, but I pay for, so I’m not the product. I haven’t put Cloudflare in front of it, but that’s something extra folks do.

I print them... for xmas i printed 600 photos for about 60 eur, it was well worth it.
First, I'd recommend thinning out - multiple terabytes sounds very extensive and can be thinned by removing duplicates and by using better compression like webp or x265, removing unnecessary raw-files, etc.

My personal backup is the usual 3-2-1: 3 backups, 2 places, 1 offline. I have one copy on my local harddrive (that I work with), one automatically synced copy via seafile on one of my dedicated servers (which also maintains a few months of history in case I accidentally delete something) and I have one external, offline harddrive at a relatives house, that I sync to every half a year or so. Since I'm paranoid, my dedicated server is backed up to an external storage every night as well via borgbackup. If you don't want to spend a few bucks a month on backblaze or another service, just use a local NAS - as long as you have one harddrive offline and external as well (in case of a ransomware attack that crypts all files).

Important: My files and backups are fully encrypted and it's imperative(!) that you backup all documentation, all config files, all settings, all cronjobs, all executables that have something to do with the backup and restoration process unencrypted with every backup - in the desaster case, nothing sucks more than trying to find the right settings again.

Case in point: I originally used a custom shell script and encoded the files with openssl. However, the default hash scheme was changed between openssl 1.0 and openssl 1.1 (or something like that) and when it came to restoring after a harddrive failure, this took me like a weekend to sort out.

As for posterity: it's up to you if you encrypt the external drive at a relative - if you're fine with a burglar having the images and you cannot be ransomed with them (e.g. due to nudes), just write what is on the harddrive clearly and you're fine.

I have a similar setup, and have set up my backup infrastructure configuration as a git project, mirrored on both GitHub & Gitlab.

I can thus checkout the project on a new machine and just initiate it (giving it the right api keys etc) without issue.

  > if you're fine with a burglar having the images and you cannot be ransomed with them (e.g. due to nudes), just write what is on the harddrive clearly and you're fine.
For the most part, just using an unusual filesystem e.g. ZFS will foil the vast, vast majority of attempts to read the data from a drive stolen from a home burglary (e.g. where the data was not the target).
That's security by obscurity - either do it right (if your data demands it) or don't put any effort in it at all, IMHO.

  > That's security by obscurity
Exactly. And in instances of securing physical objects, depending on the threat model, obscurity can an effective barrier.
Yeah, obscurity seems to help in the real world. The Presidential motorcade has a bunch of identical limos so attackers don't know which one the President is in. They, of course, have armor too. But the decoys add to the security, even if it's "by obscurity".
Sure, and don't lock your door since a smashed window is always an option.
The content gets stolen either way. You would save the money on window repair at the cost of losing a small deterrent (maybe a thief would refrain from making noise)
> better compression like webp or x265, removing unnecessary raw-files, etc.

OP is talking about digitized videos, so asking to re-compress the videos is a https://xkcd.com/1683/ in the making.

The source for most movie rips today is Bluray, which is already an encoded medium. Yet Bluray remux's are not the common distribution format.

Yea you are technically correct, but if the distance from the original is just a handful of encodes, good luck noticing any lower quality that's not simply due to poor encoding settings. And when a proper encode can be a 10th the size with hardly any drop in quality, in a video file you might view <12 more times in your life, does it really matter.

Having to archive environments and toolchains along with backups is unpleasant.

What is the plan: when decryption fails (and before you identified that it's a versioning issue with openssl, in your case) you'd reinstall an old linux to a random computer and work from there? How many config files and settings are even involved in your backup process and how can you be sure you haven't missed anything?

I hope there are dependency-free solutions for this - a winzip-encrypted .zip file that asks for a password should work everywhere even in the future?

Are you encrypting every file or create some virtual encrypted volume and copy all file over ?
I have rsync cron jobs that backup to an Olimex NAS [1]. Their mainline support is great and the box has been running find for a few years already. The only problem is, it only supports 2.5" HDDs, so you are limited to 4TB. Power consumption is less than that of my dish washer on standby.

From then on, I backup to Google Archive Cloud Storage over restic [2]

[1] https://olimex.wordpress.com/2020/03/13/bay-hdd-sdd-is-easy-...

[2] https://cloud.google.com/storage/docs/storage-classes

I have 3 NAS systems based on Freebsd + ZFS where all system are over 10 years old on 3 different locations. My home, my parents home, and at my co-location.

It is just ZFS snapshots with replication. I wrote my own shell scripts for this that takes daily/hourly snapshots. This scales well with multiple TB's, bandwidth is no issue as only changes from last snapshot(s) are replicated.

After 10 years, I've replaced only 2 hard drives of about 30. I do upgrade FreeBSD once every second or third year. Nothing else, it just keeps going.

This project has probably costed me max a week in configuration & setup & maintenance over the 10 years.

Currently I run a freedbsd zfs nas as well. I had planned to do something similar but I wanted to allow the places I store backups, some access to the storage. In your example, it would be your parents. I figured it would be a nice way of saying thanks. I was thinking syncthing or something. How do you do NATing?
All servers are behind a NAT, but the servers are only configured with SSH open. With the exception of the NAS I am using which also has NFS, iSCSI running. Also, only the backup servers are allowed to make connections to NAS I am using. The NAS I am using is not allowed to connect to the backup servers.
My problem with this approach, and many of the other ones (including my own, at the moment), is that 99% of my relatives wouldn't know how to access such a system in case of death or emergency. This is why the trustee for post-life access to my info is actually a friend who works in IT like me; but I've not sorted out pics yet.
This is a problem I'm trying to solve as well. My main repository is ZFS, which IMO is a no-go for postmortem access. I don't trust that online accounts, especially paid ones, will not be locked out due to inactivity or lack of payment. It may be several years between departure and access.

I have 3 separate use cases: casual access to shared memories for which I'm the family steward (photos, videos), motivated access to personal important documents, and motivated access to other personal files.

I'm not about to leave an unencrypted drive full of personal info in a family member's house, as the risk of theft is strictly greater than just having one copy. My current plan is to use EXT4 + Luks to satisfy the last 2 scenarios, which I think stands a reasonable chance for anyone slightly techy (most modern Linux distributions will simply prompt you for the container password when you try to access the encrypted drive) and is likely to enjoy long-lived support for at least a decade or 2. I have a techy person in my family, not sure I'd do this if I didn't... For casual access to shared memories, I plan on leaving an unencrypted partition. While it lasts, these media are also available on a family-only photo album I put up on AWS.

I'm considering using a laptop as the vessel for the encrypted drive, with a suitable Linux distro pre-loaded and instructions on the desktop/printed out and kept in an adhesive document pocket stuck to the machine.

With the electricity, hardware, space, and time cost it might be cheaper to have just one and sync to a hosted ZFS service. Of course, those didn't exist 10 years ago, I don't think.
Not really, space has been free for me. Electricity is very cheap usually here in Norway. And hardware are used servers from Ebay. Though these are actually desktop AMD x2 with 8GB ddr2 ECC memory on Asus motherboards. Still working fine, but I am planning to replace soon.
Self hosted Nextcloud
Syncthing to sync from my phone to my nas. And then a nightly crone to back it up with Borg to borgbase.com
I simply burn the photos in 100GB M-disc blurays. Then I bury them next to a tree in a zip lock bag.
I hope you bury a reader unit as well :) I bought two units of different makes and do small tests like once a year after computer/os updates, just in case...
There's plenty of bluray drives still manufactured, mostly on each modern console. I hope I can find a working in 20-30 years, my PlayStation 1 is still working strong :D
As a long-term user of Synology NAS, I already have one central solution to store all photos and videos, a Diskstation 918+ with 10TB storage. The NAS has a "photos" folder, all important family members have accounts and can store all photos in that folder. It's organized by year and one folder for each event.

When I first set up that photo solution I feared that no one would like to use it, but everyone liked the idea to have one central storage for all photos where everyone can also see and download the photos of others.

To make sure this is not the only place where everything is stored, I have another, older NAS sitting at my mom's house that is used as a remote backup solution. If ever comes the situation that both my and my mom's NAS are destroyed, photos probably don't matter anymore, so that's totally fine for me.

Of course, two NAS with much storage is quite expensive, but I guess it's cheaper in the long term, than paying for a multi-TB cloud storage every year.

TLDR: two NAS at different locations, one has a shared folder where all family photos are stored, one is backup only.

Use Synology with its built in AWS glacier backup.

Use the Synology Photos app on ios to automatically backup media from my phone.

Next to the usual 3-2-1 backup cycle I also keep a downscaled (around 5 Megapixels) full backup on my phone (SD card). The originals have several terabytes. Should everything else fail - at least some will survive. Also it's nice to quickly browse the collection.