I wish it were easy to get custom keycaps. I couldn't find anything that fits my keyboard so I bought a few different sets and mutilated the best candidate with a mini drill. Not very economical, nor does the result look that clean. And, well, effort.
I made my own with 16.5 mm key spacing. And it uses low profile switches and needs very low profile caps due to the way I mounted the top plate. I didn't feel like the usual way of mounting a plate would be rigid enough with my tight spacing; there'd be very little material between the switches. So my plate is on top of the switch body, with circular holes for the stems.
For those who are on the fence, looking at the mechanical keyboards and wondering if they are that great, I've been there and contemplated the idea of building one for a few years.
It's a rabbit hole, and the cost can easily pile up, not even talking about the time spent studying all the possible mods and brands and styles, but at the end the satisfaction is there and I think that my custom keyboard is built to last a decade or more.
Using it for typing code, prose or instant messaging is a delight.
The type of experience is similar to what you get when driving a luxury car or wearing tailor made clothes, it feels good.
The base board I used is the GMMK pro, not the best choice if I had to do it again, I had to heavily mod it to achieve the sound profile I wanted and it is still a bit stiff.
I'd recommend buying something a bit pricier, built from small companies in the US or South Korea, those are in my opinion the most advanced design at the moment.
I used lubed Gateron Black Silent for the switches, very happy with the result, smooth, quiet with a bassy sound.
MT3 is in my opinion a very good choice for the keycaps profile, sculpted and retro, I used the Susuwatari from Drop.
I had a phase of seeking mechanical keyboards. But I felt like it's a downgrade for me, and whenever I voiced my concerns, people would just tell me I got the wrong switch, I have to do this mod, or buy this expensive keyboard and then it will be amazing. But it never did. I went back to a scissor switch keyboard and I love it. I even like some membrane keyboards, such as dell kb-522 or even cheapo ones like Logitech K120.
I don't like the feel of mechanical keyboards. Tall keys, tall keyboards and especially long travel time are a bug for me, not a feature. My style of typing, I don't like to spend a long time on each key, so the less travel time, the better. I actually enjoyed Macbook butterfly keyboard. Yes, I know mech keyboard proponents will tell me I am doing it wrong, that on a mechanical keyboard you don't have to bottom out, but that felt like an extra challenge to find the actuation point on each key.
I have to say however I enjoyed the feel of low profile (Kailh Choc) blue switches. It was a good balance between fun of mechanical keyboards and relatively low profile keys of non-mech keyboards.
A lot of people seem to be using low profile switches nowadays actually. But you do you; everyone has their own taste. Personally I love my mechanical ergo keyboard.
I tried a few mechanical keyboard and I was not convinced by the sound and feel.
I used an obscure but well made low profile scissor keyboard for 15 years and I was quite happy with it.
But this is nothing compared to what I built last summer.
I also don't like long travel so I added specific mods to have shorter travel, with two small O rings inside the keycap, I also added weights inside the keycaps to improve the feel.
Tall keycaps are not an issue for me as long as the angle of the keyboard is well designed to avoid fatigue.
But there are options for low profile switches and keycaps, and they can be modded and improved just as cherry style switches.
Japanese keyboard like Topre are also known to use a complete different tech for switches that can be very satisfying (but full plastic)
I've gotten used to a cheap keyboard (Logitech K750) and I'm thinking about buying a few for backups because it's getting to be a pretty old product. It probably won't be long before they stop selling them.
I'm exactly like you (I see myself in your post) but there are two big issues with membrane keebs: 1) nkro (none of them support it) 2) can't customize switch resistance (they always feel too hard to push on, or too mushy).
Additionally, after trying QMK I'm never going back and no membrane keeb support it.
I want to try kailh chocs but I cannot afford to shell out hundreds of bucks for every new keyboard that I want to try.
This is my issue. I really want a mechanical keyboard, but the amount of choice is insane, and the price difference between different ones are insane.
Sadly these days it's hard to separate fact from fiction when it comes to products.
All of this, and I have very basic requirements too (at least I think so). 70% keyboard layout, needs to be somewhat quiet, and I don't really want to pay an arm and a leg. Is there not a website where I can filter from many different keyboards so I can short-list what suits me best? I've not found any. The only places where I've been able to find quality information are Reddit and other similar communities, but they contain a barage of information and it's hard to find anything useful.
edit: I'd really like to not have to build it myself.
You can't go lower than what the Chinese manufacturers have these days. You can easily get a TKL for less than $40 these days from Amazon with prime shipping.
Building certainly let's you control all aspects but you just can't compete on price unless you want something exotic like a split ergo or fancy metal chassis.
Maybe this is what has thrown my research in shambles. I thought 70% was basically a laptop like layout (basically normal keyboard + arrow keys cramped under the right shift key and maybe a few extra keys). Maybe I'm mistaken.
In terms of I've been thinking up to £150 or the equivalent. Split keyboard optional, though, I've never really used one, so maybe it's worth it if it falls within the budget for ergonomics.
That would look like a 75%, if you cut off the function keys you get a 65%
Authors article is a 75% board. As the forementioned gmmk pro.
Both reasonably priced, and a with a little tuning and modding very decent boards.
ergo is a whole other rabbithole
I'm currently looking for a split, wireless ( bluetooth or not ), QMK compatible firmware keyboard that doesn't cost over $300. Or alternatively, an existing one that has an alternative open firmware option.
It seems like something that checks all of these boxes just isn't available.
I think for wireless you better look at ZMK instead. (Kinesis are coming up with a new split wireless model this year, but probably outside your budget).
Depending on how DIY you want to be you can possibly source all the parts yourself to save on (third party) labor costs.
From handwired to fabbing open source PCB to asking a third party to assemble one for you.
I really like my keyboards wireless, specifically BLE (so no receiver dongles).
I also like them to have long battery life (months).
I don't care for backlight LEDs.
Is there existing open-source firmware that would tick these boxes? I couldn't find anything last time I looked.
(I own and love an HHKB Hybrid Type-S, but am curious to what extent it can be replicated -- and then tweaked -- using open-source designs that already exist.)
Thanks for prompting me take another look at ZMK. I remember concluding that power consumption would have been an issue, but either things have improved or I just reached the wrong conclusion last time I looked.
Got myself some mini 32bits RISC-V "USB-C" boards with tons of GPIOs, that to, maybe, "one day", build my own ortholinear keyboard and code my own firmware.
I am somewhat confused by all the love for mechanical keyboards. Don't get me wrong I absolutely agree that a good keyboard is a great investment and think that about 99.99% of all keyboards are complete garbage.
What I don't understand is how someone can spend so much time and/or money getting just the right key switch and researching the right amount of lube to be applied on the inside of those switches, but at the same time not get/build a keyboard that fixes the two major defects shared by 99.99% (probably understating it) of all keyboards.
Instead of telling you what those defects are I invite you to notice them on your own by moving away the keyboard and mouse and what else is on your desk and instead place you hands on the plate and looking at them for a few minutes.
Once you notice those two characteristics of your hands you should also see how your current keyboard (be that an apple/dell/logitech or fancy keyboard for $1000) completely fails to take those into account.
Sure, lube you key switches, I am sure that improves your typing experience too, but compared to fixing the two defects of most keyboards those improvements are only marginal.
My point is that I find it difficult to understand how someone can invest so much time/money improving their typing experience without realizing that such a keyboard is the way to go.
I am guessing that it is because we are all so used to "normal" keyboards that it is not enough to be explicitly told what isn't so great about them and being shown a picture of the alternative to overcome the "wow, that surely is a keyboard for freaks designed by freaks" reaction.
And I though that having those two insights about anatomy on your own might just be enough for some to be more open to those freakish keyboards. After all that's what I did; it might work for others too. Back when I bought my first Kinesis Advantage nobody talked about such keyboards. One day I looked at my hands and then at my keyboard and realized that that can't possibly be the best there is. Then I went on the still young internet and searched for something reasonable().
() Of course such keyboards have disadvantages too. Mainly they tend to be on the bulky side, which isn't so great for traveling.
Surprised this article does not mention Vial (https://get.vial.today/) which is an open source alternative to Via that supports more QMK features and works with most VIA compatible boards. VIA is closed source, seems to be rarely updated, and has very little in the way of documentation.
lament, n: a passionate expression of grief or sorrow
VT102 keyboards were ok, and space cadet keyboards were fun, but if anyone had been nutty enough to suggest that four bleeping decades later, almost a half century, we'd be focusing on making keys click nicely... I might have pointed out that four decades earlier computers had been hydraulic, that graphical user interfaces looked to become awesome, and asked what disaster they envisioned occurring to so cripple humanity's progress on interface tech.
In the before (covid) time, I had extra cameras on my thinkpad, to half-heartedly play with 3D hand tracking, and "which finger pressed the key" events, and "just where on the keycap was the finger", and keyboard as touchpad, and cep complex event processing with rollback to address input tech with diverse latencies, and keyboard-on-screen shallow-3D overlay for heads-up keyboard overlays, and ...
Sigh. Having a keyboard you love can be visceral tactile joy, something which repeatedly uplifts your spirit throughout the day. So yay on working towards more people having that experience. But sometimes the discussion has for me the vibe of a snowmobile forum with people discussing nice ways to spend half and hour in the morning chasing down sled reindeer.
> One day I looked at my hands and then at my keyboard and realized that that can't possibly be the best there is.
The same can absolutely be said about the entire paradigm of consumption/production when using a computer. Designers were up in arms a few years ago when apps would use skeuomorphic design, but nobody seems to care much about the actual, physical interface.
We force our bodies into a perpendicular posture that, while more supportive these days, is still largely based on right angle construction that was simple to build. We use keyboards that are based on limiting the throughput of the typewriter. Mice are one of the most precise, simplest designs we have, but the usefulness collapses when you add three need to place objects using depth.
My personal belief is that VR as a workspace can be where we come up with the best new ideas to kill this old way of thinking, but it HAS to happen at the beginning. We cannot and should not tolerate old ways of thinking just to make the transition easier.
35 comments
[ 152 ms ] story [ 171 ms ] threadEven the niche datcyl manuforms will support cheap keycaps (even if they might not be compatible with high-profile keycaps).
It's a rabbit hole, and the cost can easily pile up, not even talking about the time spent studying all the possible mods and brands and styles, but at the end the satisfaction is there and I think that my custom keyboard is built to last a decade or more.
Using it for typing code, prose or instant messaging is a delight. The type of experience is similar to what you get when driving a luxury car or wearing tailor made clothes, it feels good.
The base board I used is the GMMK pro, not the best choice if I had to do it again, I had to heavily mod it to achieve the sound profile I wanted and it is still a bit stiff.
I'd recommend buying something a bit pricier, built from small companies in the US or South Korea, those are in my opinion the most advanced design at the moment.
I used lubed Gateron Black Silent for the switches, very happy with the result, smooth, quiet with a bassy sound.
MT3 is in my opinion a very good choice for the keycaps profile, sculpted and retro, I used the Susuwatari from Drop.
I don't like the feel of mechanical keyboards. Tall keys, tall keyboards and especially long travel time are a bug for me, not a feature. My style of typing, I don't like to spend a long time on each key, so the less travel time, the better. I actually enjoyed Macbook butterfly keyboard. Yes, I know mech keyboard proponents will tell me I am doing it wrong, that on a mechanical keyboard you don't have to bottom out, but that felt like an extra challenge to find the actuation point on each key.
I have to say however I enjoyed the feel of low profile (Kailh Choc) blue switches. It was a good balance between fun of mechanical keyboards and relatively low profile keys of non-mech keyboards.
But this is nothing compared to what I built last summer.
I also don't like long travel so I added specific mods to have shorter travel, with two small O rings inside the keycap, I also added weights inside the keycaps to improve the feel.
Tall keycaps are not an issue for me as long as the angle of the keyboard is well designed to avoid fatigue.
But there are options for low profile switches and keycaps, and they can be modded and improved just as cherry style switches.
Japanese keyboard like Topre are also known to use a complete different tech for switches that can be very satisfying (but full plastic)
This is my issue. I really want a mechanical keyboard, but the amount of choice is insane, and the price difference between different ones are insane.
Sadly these days it's hard to separate fact from fiction when it comes to products.
All of this, and I have very basic requirements too (at least I think so). 70% keyboard layout, needs to be somewhat quiet, and I don't really want to pay an arm and a leg. Is there not a website where I can filter from many different keyboards so I can short-list what suits me best? I've not found any. The only places where I've been able to find quality information are Reddit and other similar communities, but they contain a barage of information and it's hard to find anything useful.
edit: I'd really like to not have to build it myself.
What is your budget? If you can spare a few weekends I think it is worth it, but I usually enjoy building things so I might be somewhat biased...
70% is not a thing AFAIK, there are 60% 65%, 75% and TKL.
Building certainly let's you control all aspects but you just can't compete on price unless you want something exotic like a split ergo or fancy metal chassis.
Maybe this is what has thrown my research in shambles. I thought 70% was basically a laptop like layout (basically normal keyboard + arrow keys cramped under the right shift key and maybe a few extra keys). Maybe I'm mistaken.
In terms of I've been thinking up to £150 or the equivalent. Split keyboard optional, though, I've never really used one, so maybe it's worth it if it falls within the budget for ergonomics.
£150 is a bit short is you want something made of metal. £200-£250 would be easier.
But really, if you can afford it this is something that is likely to outlast your computer by a long shot and be use for hours every day.
There are diminishing returns at some point, but you're going to reach that point before ~ £500.
https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
https://mechdb.net/
It seems like something that checks all of these boxes just isn't available.
I think for wireless you better look at ZMK instead. (Kinesis are coming up with a new split wireless model this year, but probably outside your budget).
ZMK rather than QMK though, checked price (not sure if final) but the model with the open firmware was $439 for their initial run.
I tried to help by updating and better-presenting an existing list of ergonomic mechanical keyboards: https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
I'm using an ErgoDash¹ with a 3D-printed tilted stand, but I intend to assemble a Lagrange² "soon".
¹ https://github.com/omkbd/ErgoDash
² https://github.com/dpapavas/lagrange-keyboard
I switch between a mistel md770 split Bluetooth keyboard and a kinesis advantage.
I also like them to have long battery life (months).
I don't care for backlight LEDs.
Is there existing open-source firmware that would tick these boxes? I couldn't find anything last time I looked.
(I own and love an HHKB Hybrid Type-S, but am curious to what extent it can be replicated -- and then tweaked -- using open-source designs that already exist.)
https://zmk.dev/power-profiler/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moergo/glove80-the-incr...
What I don't understand is how someone can spend so much time and/or money getting just the right key switch and researching the right amount of lube to be applied on the inside of those switches, but at the same time not get/build a keyboard that fixes the two major defects shared by 99.99% (probably understating it) of all keyboards.
Instead of telling you what those defects are I invite you to notice them on your own by moving away the keyboard and mouse and what else is on your desk and instead place you hands on the plate and looking at them for a few minutes.
Once you notice those two characteristics of your hands you should also see how your current keyboard (be that an apple/dell/logitech or fancy keyboard for $1000) completely fails to take those into account.
Sure, lube you key switches, I am sure that improves your typing experience too, but compared to fixing the two defects of most keyboards those improvements are only marginal.
I am guessing that it is because we are all so used to "normal" keyboards that it is not enough to be explicitly told what isn't so great about them and being shown a picture of the alternative to overcome the "wow, that surely is a keyboard for freaks designed by freaks" reaction.
And I though that having those two insights about anatomy on your own might just be enough for some to be more open to those freakish keyboards. After all that's what I did; it might work for others too. Back when I bought my first Kinesis Advantage nobody talked about such keyboards. One day I looked at my hands and then at my keyboard and realized that that can't possibly be the best there is. Then I went on the still young internet and searched for something reasonable().
() Of course such keyboards have disadvantages too. Mainly they tend to be on the bulky side, which isn't so great for traveling.
VT102 keyboards were ok, and space cadet keyboards were fun, but if anyone had been nutty enough to suggest that four bleeping decades later, almost a half century, we'd be focusing on making keys click nicely... I might have pointed out that four decades earlier computers had been hydraulic, that graphical user interfaces looked to become awesome, and asked what disaster they envisioned occurring to so cripple humanity's progress on interface tech.
In the before (covid) time, I had extra cameras on my thinkpad, to half-heartedly play with 3D hand tracking, and "which finger pressed the key" events, and "just where on the keycap was the finger", and keyboard as touchpad, and cep complex event processing with rollback to address input tech with diverse latencies, and keyboard-on-screen shallow-3D overlay for heads-up keyboard overlays, and ...
Sigh. Having a keyboard you love can be visceral tactile joy, something which repeatedly uplifts your spirit throughout the day. So yay on working towards more people having that experience. But sometimes the discussion has for me the vibe of a snowmobile forum with people discussing nice ways to spend half and hour in the morning chasing down sled reindeer.
The same can absolutely be said about the entire paradigm of consumption/production when using a computer. Designers were up in arms a few years ago when apps would use skeuomorphic design, but nobody seems to care much about the actual, physical interface.
We force our bodies into a perpendicular posture that, while more supportive these days, is still largely based on right angle construction that was simple to build. We use keyboards that are based on limiting the throughput of the typewriter. Mice are one of the most precise, simplest designs we have, but the usefulness collapses when you add three need to place objects using depth.
My personal belief is that VR as a workspace can be where we come up with the best new ideas to kill this old way of thinking, but it HAS to happen at the beginning. We cannot and should not tolerate old ways of thinking just to make the transition easier.