Logistically, I find it very hard to believe that Apple is working on their own console. There have obviously been Apple AR/VR rumors going around for a while, but everything I've heard so far doesn't add up:
- Making this kind of play (especially at high-resolution) requires an insane amount of GPU power that just doesn't really exist. On a good day the M1 can bench against a desktop 1050, which doesn't even meet the minimum recommended requirements for low-res PC VR. Quality, modern gaming is straight-up out of the question at that performance profile.
- TSMC is maxxed out right now, entering a new product segment might threaten to cannibalize their Mac or iPhone supply chain.
- Apple doesn't have a graphics API that anyone cares about. Sure, they could use MoltenVK to attempt some ridiculous PCVR compatibility layer, but it's just outright not feasible. This machine is going to need all the overhead it can get, translation layers would murder it's performance in cold blood.
> Apple isn't hiring these folks to launch a product next year. Whatever these folks are working on will probably take 3+ years to see the light of day
Apple bought P. A. Semi in 2008 [1]. The M1 launched in 2020 [2]. These moves could easily be in preparation for a move in the 2030s. This sort of planning is what makes Apple special. (Caveat: the A4 launched in ~2010. But the ditching Intel was the titanic move that set the board for.)
With cloud gaming looming large would Apple really be intending to build a home console? Perhaps they're being hired to build out their server infrastructure.
I don't see Apple coming out with a whole new device either. They don't have the kind of reputation in the gaming world that Microsoft or Sony has; going head-to-head with those guys now, with an unproven platform, would probably end in failure and damage any future attempts at inroads into the industry.
The other thing is that there would very likely be some awkward overlap between an Apple Console and an Apple TV, especially considering Apple's consistency in product design. Having two little black boxes on the market, both of which handle media and neither of which is a computer, would be confusing for consumers.
Which doesn't mean Apple isn't interested in gaming. I think they are, a lot. I'd say a more likely scenario is that Apple starts quietly—or not so quietly—beefing up its Apple TV line into something that ultimately turns into a console. Bolster their Metal API, ship an Apple TV with an M5 (or whatever they call 2025/6's version of Apple Silicon), line up some big-name titles that you can rent/buy/stream through the device, and I think they’d be a force to be reckoned with.
Contrasting the tiny fanless AppleTV boxes with the comically over-sized messes that are the most recent console generation, these products are a galaxy apart.
Apple is already in the gaming industry with a proven platform. If Apple leverages their iDevice marketspace dominance, I don't see how they could end in failure.
Imagine an eGPU that is compatible with any Mac/iDevice, just plug and play.
About a week ago I predicted that Apple would release a console, and that the Activision/Microsoft merger was not as much as a move to counter Sony's dominance, but as a moat against Apple.
An Xbox Series X or PS5 is $500. Comes with everything you need to play except a TV. A Series S or Switch is $300. A Mac/iDevice + eGPU + controller is not going to cost less than PS5 and especially not less than a Switch or Series S.
Apple positions themselves as a premium brand with a premium price which runs completely counter to the console model of subsidized hardware. It just doesn't make any sense for them to enter the console marketplace. Especially when the "big" games on Apple's platforms are essentially all Gatcha titles that are ALSO on Android. Sure the Apple console has a better looking version of Raid Shadow Legends but the Samsung Galaxy Player is a third the cost and the Chinese one from some brand you've never heard of is a fifth.
Snapdragon XR2 is significantly poor compared with PC GPU (or even with M1) but it runs games in playable quality.
Semiconductor shortage won't last forever. There's a cycle. Maybe now is good timing to design new chips that released at a few years later. Anyway Apple can sell their entire device for $$ so they can raise price to pay to TSMC.
Apple has never really been one to tap into already established areas of consumer electronics.
Even if they did try to compete in console gaming, for the second time, they wouldn't really have an image that would be consistent with their brand. They wouldn't make something high powered to compete with Microsoft and Sony's more hardcore user space. While they share innovation and design styles, they couldn't possibly acquire enough valuable IP to compete with Nintendo.
If an Apple console is to come out, it will probably be cloud based and similar to Stadia. I'm not the craziest Apple fan, but I don't think they'd be that boring.
Hmm... Apple does tap into established areas of consumer electronics, with refined products; I do agree with your sentiment, in the sense that if Apple releases a console, it will be very different functionally and aesthetically from anything on the market.
As for a cloud based gaming solution, that wouldn't work with their AR/VR headset as the latency would be too high, especially so considering the latency sensitivity of headset based gaming.
If Apple is serious about AR/VR, that necessitates a powerful GPU, which we haven't seen from Apple yet, and that implies a physical console.
With refined product image. Their products have less features for the higher price and it is only the Apple image that sets them apart. Sure, later on they refine the product and most of the time it is their competitors that stumble or degrade their products in order to imitate or differentiate and due to that Apple stands out. Example - iphone - it was an amazing and revolutionary marketing of a sub-par imitation of other available touch screen phones. It wasn't until 3rd or 4th hardware release that iphone gained parity with other devices (tried copy+paste before then?, how about multitasking?) and other companies jumped on the bandwagon of locked down slow phones with short batter life. I had n900 and it was a great device with good batter life and all the software anyone could want but maybe a bit low on RAM. Still light years ahead of iphone at the time...and it died due to MS trying too hard to differentiate from iphone and android.
Portable music players and cellphones were both very established when apple entered those markets. They also tried to enter the console market with the pippin back in the 90s
There’s no doubt that Apple has the building blocks for a console, between the A X/M X SOCs, Metal, Apple Arcade and Apple TV.
The only question is if they really want to further overextend themselves.
They’re already slipping on software like iOS and OS X (as in: Their software is becoming WORSE, not better.) while trying to break into TV and cars. Their hardware lineup is becoming more confusing and fragmented, not less.
Not really sure if Apple NEEDS another distraction right now.
Wait… I can’t play video games on my extremely powerful MacBook Pro without Windows Bootcamp… and now Apple is making a gaming console? I already have a powerful computer. Consoles are backwards in evolution of gaming unless you consider the price, and I’m sure an Apple console wouldn’t be cheap. Like others stated, cloud gaming would even make more sense.
This probably annoys me more than it should.. but I’m resentful towards Apple for making computers incapable of running modern video games.
Apple had been collaborating with Valve (not clear if this ended/went south) and is rumored to release a mixed reality headset in the next 1 - 2 years and a lightweight AR glasses in 3 - 5 years by Chinese tech reports. 2022 product launch delayed due to over-heating.
23 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 65.3 ms ] thread- Making this kind of play (especially at high-resolution) requires an insane amount of GPU power that just doesn't really exist. On a good day the M1 can bench against a desktop 1050, which doesn't even meet the minimum recommended requirements for low-res PC VR. Quality, modern gaming is straight-up out of the question at that performance profile.
- TSMC is maxxed out right now, entering a new product segment might threaten to cannibalize their Mac or iPhone supply chain.
- Apple doesn't have a graphics API that anyone cares about. Sure, they could use MoltenVK to attempt some ridiculous PCVR compatibility layer, but it's just outright not feasible. This machine is going to need all the overhead it can get, translation layers would murder it's performance in cold blood.
Apple bought P. A. Semi in 2008 [1]. The M1 launched in 2020 [2]. These moves could easily be in preparation for a move in the 2030s. This sort of planning is what makes Apple special. (Caveat: the A4 launched in ~2010. But the ditching Intel was the titanic move that set the board for.)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_M1
The other thing is that there would very likely be some awkward overlap between an Apple Console and an Apple TV, especially considering Apple's consistency in product design. Having two little black boxes on the market, both of which handle media and neither of which is a computer, would be confusing for consumers.
Which doesn't mean Apple isn't interested in gaming. I think they are, a lot. I'd say a more likely scenario is that Apple starts quietly—or not so quietly—beefing up its Apple TV line into something that ultimately turns into a console. Bolster their Metal API, ship an Apple TV with an M5 (or whatever they call 2025/6's version of Apple Silicon), line up some big-name titles that you can rent/buy/stream through the device, and I think they’d be a force to be reckoned with.
Imagine an eGPU that is compatible with any Mac/iDevice, just plug and play.
About a week ago I predicted that Apple would release a console, and that the Activision/Microsoft merger was not as much as a move to counter Sony's dominance, but as a moat against Apple.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29985974
Apple positions themselves as a premium brand with a premium price which runs completely counter to the console model of subsidized hardware. It just doesn't make any sense for them to enter the console marketplace. Especially when the "big" games on Apple's platforms are essentially all Gatcha titles that are ALSO on Android. Sure the Apple console has a better looking version of Raid Shadow Legends but the Samsung Galaxy Player is a third the cost and the Chinese one from some brand you've never heard of is a fifth.
Semiconductor shortage won't last forever. There's a cycle. Maybe now is good timing to design new chips that released at a few years later. Anyway Apple can sell their entire device for $$ so they can raise price to pay to TSMC.
Even if they did try to compete in console gaming, for the second time, they wouldn't really have an image that would be consistent with their brand. They wouldn't make something high powered to compete with Microsoft and Sony's more hardcore user space. While they share innovation and design styles, they couldn't possibly acquire enough valuable IP to compete with Nintendo.
If an Apple console is to come out, it will probably be cloud based and similar to Stadia. I'm not the craziest Apple fan, but I don't think they'd be that boring.
Aren't they though?
As for a cloud based gaming solution, that wouldn't work with their AR/VR headset as the latency would be too high, especially so considering the latency sensitivity of headset based gaming.
If Apple is serious about AR/VR, that necessitates a powerful GPU, which we haven't seen from Apple yet, and that implies a physical console.
The only question is if they really want to further overextend themselves.
They’re already slipping on software like iOS and OS X (as in: Their software is becoming WORSE, not better.) while trying to break into TV and cars. Their hardware lineup is becoming more confusing and fragmented, not less.
Not really sure if Apple NEEDS another distraction right now.
This probably annoys me more than it should.. but I’m resentful towards Apple for making computers incapable of running modern video games.