Is it possible that a large portion of amazon's employees are only staying for the money? If I understand correctly, a large portion of the compensation is tied to the stock price (RSUs). What happens to miserable employees' stay/go decisions if the stock price stops climbing and the total compensation effectively decreases as a result?
What happens to the stock price if a larger number of employees leave?
I could have worded that better. The people I know who have worked at amazon have described miserable conditions, but great pay. They stayed (for a while) because the money was so good. So what would happen to amazon if the money stopped being so good?
I think a question to ask in the same vain would be: What would they do, if due to economic changes other companies are suddenly willing to match the money with better working conditions?
Isn't that what Meta is trying to do? They claim to pay in the top 5% of salary and talk a ton about how much better it is to work there compared to Amazon. There seems to be a ton of Amazon folks moving over there all the time.
I think every company talks about how much better it is to work there compared to Amazon.
The sample is obviously very biased, since I mostly hear from people who left, but after listening to ex-employees talk about being there, I'm inclined to believe them.
I worked at a company for over ten years mainly for access to their computational infrastructure, source code, and to pick the brains of fellow engineers. By the end I was only there for the money, and that's when I left.
True. I’ve switch jobs for learning opportunities that paid the same as I was already making. But the end goal was to stay for a couple of years so I could make more money somewhere else.
I go to work to exchange labor for money. Why would I like work more that gives me less money in exchange for my labor most other things being equal. In my experience (8 jobs over 25 years) one development job looks about like any other. I wrote code to do “stuff” or later on in my career I showed others how to write code to do “stuff”
I have the inability to focus and tolerate work that isn’t interesting and rewarding beyond the money, I haven’t figured out yet how to exchange money for reduced work-induced misery, and I’m not as fortunate as you in seeing all jobs as the same. In fact, I could easily accept a lower salary for a research ship conference paper job than a SWE ship software job, not that the former jobs are very easy to get these days at any salary.
"Been here for 3 years and am getting the hell out this month, I wanted to stay until my 4th year but I can't do it anymore
People getting PIP'd left and right, work life balance is getting worse and worse by the day. Managers literally yelling at their developers on a daily basis.
The interview process is getting easier and easier because we can't find people due to the horrible reputation. Most of our technical screens are literally re-worded leetcode easy's, and we are still having issues finding enough people.
I have switched teams several times, but the bad teams outweigh the good teams by sheer numbers and percentage. So it is very difficult to find a good team.
I am getting out, I cant stand it here. I would urge anyone considering this company to think twice. Study a little harder and get into one of the other FANGs.
I genuinely forsee this company being demoted from a FANG, the culture is absolutely horrible, and the barriers to entry are lower than ever."
Anecdata: I’m getting job application submissions from Amazon SDEs looking to jump ship almost every day. I work at a FAANG-level company.
Conditions and culture must be really horrible, considering the high Amazon stock price and yet people still want to bail out. My friends there are all miserable.
These days you couldn’t pay me enough to work at any of the actual FAmNGs. Facebook, Google and Amazon are all some combination of a death march and making the world objectively worse (at this point compared to what they were all about in their earlier years). Apple is a weird place, though maybe I’d be open to it. Netflix seems okay by reputation amongst my peers but also kind of boring these days, limited in scope.
Amazon destroyed the environment way more than apple: fast shipping is creating massive amount of pollution, all that card board require massive amount of paper and water, most returns are just destroyed etc
A lot of that is just creative destruction as Schumpeter defined it. Destroying old world orders to make way for new. Although the environmental destruction definitely needs to be addresses for progress to be sustainable in the long term.
Aren't RSUs negotiated in dollars, then converted into shares at the current price, when you start. That is, a high stock price isn't attractive, a expected high growth rate is.
And Amazon, Google and Facebook seem to be as societally destructive as they've been for the past two decades (18 years for FB)
Generally (I don't know about amazon) a number of shares is agreed at start, and those shares are gradually vested over 4 years. So if the share price goes up in the 4 year term then the employees make more money.
Right, but the number of shares offered at the start of your vesting period is based on the current value of the stock, right? So you would expect to be offered 2x the shares in a company whose share price is 1/2 of the others. So, like with all investing, you would be concerned with the percent increase?
Everyone seems to have shuffled. At the current and last job, at least half of the employees are now less than a year at their current position. But the over all employee count is the same or higher.
That’s just how it is now. Inflation exploded, companies don’t give pay rises but they do advertise at better rates, so everyone switches job to keep up.
"The 16-week paid program provides support and a clear path to return to work for those who have been unemployed for at least one year.
Whether planned or unplanned, life happens and sometimes it pauses career plans. When raising a family, caring for ailing loved ones, caring for themselves, or relocating to a new region or country, people can experience a pause in their careers. When these professionals are ready to pick up where they left off, many find the interviewing process difficult, and for those who do receive an offer for employment, the ramp back into their day-to-day can be even more challenging.
The COVID-19 pandemic further amplified the issue, especially for women. The U.S. has seen a net loss of 4.5 million jobs held by women since February 2020, with nearly 2 million women leaving the labor force altogether, according to a May 2021 report from the National Women's Law Center.
To address the increasing need to support those who have left the workforce, either because of the pandemic or other reasons, we are launching the Amazon Returnship program. The initiative offers a clear path to return to work for professionals who have been unemployed or underemployed for at least one year, helping them to restart their careers at Amazon.
Through this new program, we hire candidates for 16 weeks and provide a risk-free, supportive environment that eases the transition back to work. We offer coaching and mentoring that starts at the recruitment and interview process and continues every day of the program as participants work on a set project plan with clear goals. At the end of the Returnship, we extend offers for full-time roles to participants who excel and see a future at Amazon."
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 69.1 ms ] threadWhat happens to the stock price if a larger number of employees leave?
This does not look like a stable system to me.
Why else would an employee stay at any company?
The sample is obviously very biased, since I mostly hear from people who left, but after listening to ex-employees talk about being there, I'm inclined to believe them.
As far as AMZN, it’s down to $2850. The same as it was in May 2020 when I got hired.
Thus 1 incident per 3 or 4 days = $285,000?
This is the cost of a company with a severely spaghettified code base written by an army of mercenaries being jira'd to death!
Text from that link.
"Been here for 3 years and am getting the hell out this month, I wanted to stay until my 4th year but I can't do it anymore
People getting PIP'd left and right, work life balance is getting worse and worse by the day. Managers literally yelling at their developers on a daily basis.
The interview process is getting easier and easier because we can't find people due to the horrible reputation. Most of our technical screens are literally re-worded leetcode easy's, and we are still having issues finding enough people.
I have switched teams several times, but the bad teams outweigh the good teams by sheer numbers and percentage. So it is very difficult to find a good team.
I am getting out, I cant stand it here. I would urge anyone considering this company to think twice. Study a little harder and get into one of the other FANGs.
I genuinely forsee this company being demoted from a FANG, the culture is absolutely horrible, and the barriers to entry are lower than ever."
Conditions and culture must be really horrible, considering the high Amazon stock price and yet people still want to bail out. My friends there are all miserable.
These days you couldn’t pay me enough to work at any of the actual FAmNGs. Facebook, Google and Amazon are all some combination of a death march and making the world objectively worse (at this point compared to what they were all about in their earlier years). Apple is a weird place, though maybe I’d be open to it. Netflix seems okay by reputation amongst my peers but also kind of boring these days, limited in scope.
Google: destroyed the internet.
Apple: destroyed the environment.
Amazon: destroyed small businesses around the country.
Netflix: destroyed attention spans by encouraging binging behaviours
Literally every tech company is profiting off a vice. And yet you all work for them.
I agree with your characterization of FAANG, but you can find similar criticism about most industries and companies
So obliterating them all in one day would not rise to the level of a "correction" (that's 10%) much less a "bear market" (that's 20%).
Probably no more than about the 9th largest one-day market drop, either.
Conversely, the market has gained well over 8% in a day over a dozen times in recorded history.
I’m sure you’re really pleased with your “X: destroyed Y” template, but isn’t binging the exact opposite of short attention span?
If you want to blame short attention span on big tech, Netflix with its focus on long format shows hardly seems to be the right target.
Aren't RSUs negotiated in dollars, then converted into shares at the current price, when you start. That is, a high stock price isn't attractive, a expected high growth rate is.
And Amazon, Google and Facebook seem to be as societally destructive as they've been for the past two decades (18 years for FB)
They're hiring like crazy.
Makes me wonder where the people who quit Amazon are going to.
That’s just how it is now. Inflation exploded, companies don’t give pay rises but they do advertise at better rates, so everyone switches job to keep up.
https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/workplace/amazons-returnshi...
"The 16-week paid program provides support and a clear path to return to work for those who have been unemployed for at least one year. Whether planned or unplanned, life happens and sometimes it pauses career plans. When raising a family, caring for ailing loved ones, caring for themselves, or relocating to a new region or country, people can experience a pause in their careers. When these professionals are ready to pick up where they left off, many find the interviewing process difficult, and for those who do receive an offer for employment, the ramp back into their day-to-day can be even more challenging.
The COVID-19 pandemic further amplified the issue, especially for women. The U.S. has seen a net loss of 4.5 million jobs held by women since February 2020, with nearly 2 million women leaving the labor force altogether, according to a May 2021 report from the National Women's Law Center.
To address the increasing need to support those who have left the workforce, either because of the pandemic or other reasons, we are launching the Amazon Returnship program. The initiative offers a clear path to return to work for professionals who have been unemployed or underemployed for at least one year, helping them to restart their careers at Amazon.
Through this new program, we hire candidates for 16 weeks and provide a risk-free, supportive environment that eases the transition back to work. We offer coaching and mentoring that starts at the recruitment and interview process and continues every day of the program as participants work on a set project plan with clear goals. At the end of the Returnship, we extend offers for full-time roles to participants who excel and see a future at Amazon."