Ask HN: At a peak of my dev career, I hate my life
The last time I had fun like this was in college. I was broke, renting a big flat with a bunch of roommates, but young, healthy, and full of enthusiasm (and booze). Finding friends in my teens and 20s was as easy as going out literally anywhere. When I eventually went to work, I thought my life would only get better. And I made a good career, but in the process, steadily drifted off into isolation.
These days I work either from home, or at best in a mostly empty office. I tried to meet new people at hobbies and dance lessons, but guess what - they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
All the "normal" people I knew in the past are now changing diapers and working to pay off their mortgages, which I guess is a kind of consolation. Still, I'm only in my 30s, and it feels like my life is pretty much done. Doing things by myself is boring and depressing, and getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.
In case someone has any advice beyond finding a hobby, going to therapy, approaching random strangers, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't have any skills other than coding, so quitting the career would be a major financial hit. On the other hand, I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups, and get out of the apathy
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 432 ms ] threadSo...people like you? you sound really judgemental man.
Since you have no friends(so nothing to hold you where you are, right?), and apparently a good source of income, I'd advise you to go remote, travel, try digital nomadism, go to meetups, meet other travelers, maybe try coworking spaces? hacker houses/airbnbs with people from lots of different places?
After my first horribly failed marriage (and damaged kids due to wife being a complete failure), something clicked in my head and I finally find personality extremely important.
Not sure if it's an age thing or just a change after trauma, but it's been a very positive change.
Weight is still somewhat important at the extreme, but otherwise it's been a 180* shift - really fascinating.
But you are right; I find that too, which is why I just go work in bars (I mean; sit and code, not serve beer!) instead of trying to meet people at hobbies (Which, for me, are all nerd/hardware/software things anyway). Even without drinking (which I don't do during working time), it is very easy to meet tons of people. And it works everywhere. The best craft beer bar in my new town (I move often) is open 8 am to 2 am, it's always busy and over 90% of the people just drink coffee there (with 15 beers on draft + more in bottles), the entire day. I work there and when I need a break, I just look around for 5 minutes and someone will make eye contact and start talking. Works everywhere I have been I found (in the US, EU, Asia).
A sober look at how society judges people should remove all surprise surrounding this topic, unfair as it may be - men are judged primarily by financial / dominance success / physical indicators of dominance (e.g. height) and women are primarily judged on their appearance / youth.
I know it sounds bad, but I don't want to meet people like me. I really don't like myself right now :) I'm looking for a way out from this state, not a way to settle in.
It's like you can't treat depression by hanging out with other depressed people, it'll make you worse.
> Since you have no friends(so nothing to hold you where you are, right?), and apparently a good source of income, I'd advise you to go remote, travel, try digital nomadism, go to meetups, meet other travelers, maybe try coworking spaces? hacker houses/airbnbs with people from lots of different places?
Traveling and digital nomading is definitely on my list, the pandemic delayed the plans. I'm afraid though, that it'll only lead me to meeting more and more developers. I tried a bunch of coworking spaces in my area, and this is exactly what happened. Meetups in my area were also only tech-related.
Working on yourself is a more-than-full-time job, and it can take years of work for someone who's developed so much self-loathing. Hobbies are for people who aren't constantly busy with other obligations. And if you're working in solitude in software full-time, you're going to have a hard time finding a hobby that you can just get laser-focused on, not to mention time for exercise if your hobby isn't athletic.
Also, my impression of NYC, more so than any other place I've lived, is that there is a general rejection of the idea that your lifestyle is supposed to change when you're 30.
Simply "chosing" to be happy is like simply "chosing" to be a milioniare.
However, I do agree that you need to get past self-loathing to at least self-acceptance of some kind. Mostly because self-loathing means putting your attention on yourself, and that is what makes it hard to connect with other people.
It’s ok to not have a high opinion of yourself as long as you don’t place too much importance on it, and are on with yourself.
You have you not actively dislike yourself.
The isolation is because we're an atomized society. Humans are psychologically supposed to exist in stable tribes. These have been shrunk down to nuclear families in modern life.
You're just making a lot of assumptions that conveniently allow you to dismiss and deny the reality of the situation.
I realize there's a problem. I also realize nothing I can say will solve that problem. It's up to tenonyx to solve it. I'm not trying to solve, just trying to help show a perspective on it that one might not immediately see. Because I've been there, too.
I think looking for a sport that requires coed teams is a good way to ensure that things remain more social than competitive. (Not knocking women athletes, just noting that mixed sports tend to be about socializing.)
But after the game, it was a blast.
Ironically, I find this to be even more isolating. One thing is right in the name, nomad, your not making and permanent or lasting friendships. Sure, you meet a lot of people but everyone is just going on their own after. Also I find travel to not be something relatable at all to most people. Most people can't do it, and get weird about it. Its very expensive or you need to luck into a certain life style. No one is interested in seeing travel pics or talking about places ime.
Try it for a few months and you’ll likely realize that you are the common theme in your problems. It’ll be a very enjoyable time nonetheless.
What? Definitely not my experience.
> Its very expensive or you need to luck into a certain life style.
Travel does not need to be expensive. Hostels are cheap. If you volunteer, you can even stay for free. Also many regions of the world are inexpensive.
> No one is interested in seeing travel pics or talking about places ime.
Again, not sure what kind of people you're meeting, but I haven't found that to be the case. Then again I've been traveling the last 4 years, so the type of people I meet tend to have the same interests.
I'm pretty sure you live in a bubble. None of my friends are taking more then a trip a year.
Hostels and volunteering are not for everyone. A vacation that is hard when life is hard is not appealing.
There's also oceans or large distances separating it from most other countries so going anywhere besides the Caribbean islands or Canada/Mexico is going to require an often not very cheap plane flight (probably $400/person at a minimum, likely more, and roughly 2.5x that if you're wanting to go to Asia/Australia).
Also, only about 37% of Americans have passports[2], and you can go on cruises without a passport (and used to be able to go to Canada/Mexico without one, but that's changed in the last decade), and the process can take 2-3 months and $165 in fees by itself (I just checked, I'm one of those people that still haven't gotten a passport yet...would have if the pandemic didn't happen in 2020, we were planning a trip to Canada that year), so that's a bit of a deterrent as well.
[1]: https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/how-big-is-texas... [2]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021...
I'd imagine most people here working well-paying jobs in tech living in cities like NYC/SF probably go on more than one vacation per year. In Europe, people get 1-3+ months of vacation, and it's very cheap to travel within Europe.
It's pretty sad if one doesn't spend more than 2+ weeks per year on vacation, unless one really enjoys their work that much, which I imagine probably is not the case for most employees.
I disagree, a sense of shared suffering can be really helpful in building close and meaningful friendships. Connecting with another miserable person who understood what I was going through - and plotting with them about what each of us could do to try to change things - was one of the key things in getting me through one of the most depressed periods of my life.
> Meetups in my area were also only tech-related.
No book clubs or discussion groups or political action or volunteer groups? Maybe you need to move; there should be a lot more than tech going on in any decent-sized city. Even if it's such a tech-focused area that lots of the attendees happen to work in tech, you'll see other facets of them at those events; people have passions outside of their careers.
It is perhaps an inconvenient truth but share suffering and struggle is the "secret" here. Why do you think childhood friendships are generally the closest ones a person will have? In part because of the intense earnest struggle to figure things out. Which is what brings people together far more effectively than shared happiness or some vague feeling of social dissatisfaction.
Don't listen to yourself. I left for Mexico 4 months into the pandemic. Thailand is open, Philippines apparently just opened, Indonesia lets you in with a visa. Do it and don't look back. Pick a country where you can stay 6+ months if you've never traveled before. Find a good DN destination on dedicated websites, not every DN is a developer so you might meet new people just by hanging out there. Open Tinder in these new areas and start meeting people without expectations, you'll have fun.
Being well paid and able to work remotely opens up ridiculous opportunities, don't let them slip. Find some nice cafes (or even a Starbucks) and work there every day, don't stay at home ever.
- an ugly asocial DN in his 30s with out-of-my-league tastes that are sometimes fulfilled. Sent from Java, the island.
great advice. I think I'm gonna move to a city or some random island and try this
How do you know they’re like you? How do you know all the single guys there are just looking to hook up or find girlfriends? How do you know all the aging, unattractive women are just looking for a husband? Feels like you are projecting.
To give a different perspective - I also took dance classes before COVID. I went into it with the mindset that I wanted to learn how to dance (to wit, I failed miserable). If dancing is secondary to you, it’s going to be noticed (people can pick up on desperation). Don’t treat it as the chore you have to do before you can talk to someone. My favorite dance partner was a widow that just wanted to dance with a man who knew how to take lead on a dance. She wasn’t looking to date. Just dance and have a conversation. Many of the single women I met there were the same. I made some good friends (not call at 2am for bail money friends). Men and women.
> Meetups in my area were also only tech-related.
Did you try meetup.com? Did they only had tech events where you are? If so, that’s crazy. I found my virtual book club from meetup.com (win!). I tried a wine tasting, but it was 3 groups of people who knew each other and me (loss!). Did learn a lot about wine (win!). Not every meetup is going to be successful so pick things that are actually interesting vs. trying to guess which one will have the most people.
To sum all this rambling up - you have to be interested in the activity of the event. If you’re not and you treat it like a chore, people can tell.
Perhaps you gave up too early, or had a poor coach. I am terribly awkward, but I persisted, and eventually people who didn't know me told me I was "talented". What a laugh.
So this is a bit offtopic (but maybe ontopic for HN), did meetup go through some change in ownership, revenue model etc. ? I can agree with the observation that meetup.com doesn't have as many fun/cheap/random/hobby based meetups any more. Everything feels a lot more commercial compared to a few years ago. Maybe it's area specific, maybe it's COVID, maybe it's a bunch of different factors. I think you need to pay to host a meetup whereas it used to be free earlier ?
This seems like the actual issue you should be addressing.
I went through a good three years in NYC where I was completely alone, isolated. I tried to branch out, but nothing really stuck until I lucked on a group of friends who I’ve had now for over 5 years.
Sometimes you have to have patience and be content with waiting. The harder you force it, the slower it will come. Sometimes you have to wait years, life does not move on your schedule. In the meantime, you can control working on yourself.
My advice is generic but important... you've -got- to like yourself. If you see nothing in yourself, it's like... contagious, and people won't either. I'd wager like 75% of being approachable and likable is confidence.
In short, figure out what you can do self improvement wise to really like yourself first, to gain confidence, then move on to the other stuff people are mentioning.
The point is, you have to be good with yourself before you "escape" to a different country. Otherwise you may only find more trouble in a different language.
In general young fun people have done their best to keep having fun despite anti covid restrictions, with the boring, depressed inside loners being the ones demanding everyone stay boring and depressed inside. You're going to find it hard to fit in with people different from you if you're going to be coming to them with values that go against their existence.
Developers were a minority. Hell, people with jobs were a minority.
Digital nomadism wouldn't do that in my experience; have done that in Bali, HK, SG, Thai, for a while in China when it was more open etc; I met tons of people and while a few said they were programmers, they were not actually programmers (0 experience, bit of html); most were people (of all races/sexes/ages) that were 'doing their own startup' (99%+ horrible ideas; I have been a tech advisor in a few incubators and these would not pass anywhere, but that's not the point) or writing their first book. But they were mostly there for the freedom; the startup/book thing is more of an excuse to be on nice beaches, forest hikes etc. So it's very social.
The coworking places I found there also had close to 0 devs in them; worse, they all wanted me to 'jump in' (I did a few times which was not smart in hindsight).
Many of these people are actively social, attractive and easy to meet up with for drinks, food, sports, walks, etc etc. And then maybe your new startup so you can do that forever.
Become really good at something, make some younger party friends. Meet people through venues not designed around meeting people. Sports e.g. .
From that description, your neighbors don't sound particularly appealing. What's there to be envious of re: that?
This is a long tail of the whole pandemic that doesn't really get discussed.
OP needs to put down roots in some place he likes and then start finding people he can hang out with regularly. If you do it right, you'll know the cashiers where you shop and the tailor and the butcher and etc. This is how you develop your social life, not by the equivalent of mindless scrolling but for irl socializing.
I would recommend looking at your life the same way you look at your code (presumably you care about the quality of code you write). Try something different and if it does not work then try something else. No one will be handing you what you want on a silver platter and if they did you certainly would not appreciate it ;)
Good luck!
My approach to this has always been to start with first principles. It has unerringly kept me in a position where the general state of my life felt coherent and fulfilling.
I'm about to get specific but it's only to illustrate how this framing helped me. I am not at all trying to say you choose the same set of options I did.
For me having a balanced family life was always going to be mandatory, even though I tend toward workaholism. Having one parent stay at home and take care of the kids was high up there (didn't have to be me, but I like work and my wife doesn't ;). Marrying someone with similar values was essential. Nearly as important was work that fulfilled me and that was consonant with my moral/ethical requirements. At the bottom was making enough money that I could take care of my family.
Definitely not saying you should adopt those same values. What I'm saying is that it helped us figure out what decisions would help us in the long run. We opted not to move to Silicon Valley because we hated the work/life imbalance there. We made less money early on (pre kids) because my wife didn't work. At that time I did a lot of freelancing and studying. My wife understood that work was necessary and didn't bug be about it, though we still went out to movies and restaurants, based on a tight budget (it was fun). We didn't have the extra expenses or stress of a second working person, but my working & studying at night gave me the skills to get very successful later. We both hated debt so we happily lived without a kitchen table and ate on the floor for a few months until we could pay cash for one.
Another hack I have is to set things up so second best is still pretty good. When I was younger I wanted to be rock star but at some point in my early 20s I realized that wouldn't happen. I chose second best, programming--for which I had zero aptitude and almost no experience. Had to work as a tech writer so I could teach myself programming, but eventually got there. Another example of second best working out well: we used to live on the beach in Southern California. But when we worked out what was most important to us, it turned out the Pacific Northwest was better all in all. Would I rather live on the water in Newport Beach? Hell yes! But we live on a beautiful peaceful farm outside of Seattle where life is much more sane, there's actual privacy, and there's plenty of room for animals and band instruments. A damn good second best.
I always loved programming and feel lucky to do it. Maybe you don't like it as much? Perhaps it would be worthwhile to do a spreadsheet listing other options that you'd like, and start making moves toward the next step in your life.
Last, once you've settled on how to be a pretty good version of yourself, you'll find it sort of magnetizes other people to you. I am totally not good looking but I'm comfortable in my own skin and confident about where I'm going. It has made a massive difference in my life.
Good luck. This whole situation could wind up working out well for you.
Take a meaningful break, or vacation,
and begin doing work that is closer to something you are actually passionate about.
A lot of people on HN are do-it-yourself, bootstrap types. So you'll naturally get "why don't you just do XYZ."
There's merit in that, but sometimes changing the environment is more effective. That environment may be literal physical location (closer to friends or activities you're interested in), a job environment (different industry) or, at a smaller scale, your home environment. I finally started updating my place and having friends over and it's made a huge difference.
On a personal note: a hard lesson I had to learn for myself is that having fun (as weird as it sounds) is my responsibility. I found that I tended to look "outwards" for stimulation, fun, validation...waiting for the world to give me things.
Hanging out with people who were great at cultivating their own fun & energy helped me realize 1) this is something I could cultivate and 2) I was shirking responsibility.
IMO this cultivation of one's own energy is a long, internal journey. But worth it.
Good luck mate.
It always feels grass is greener on the side. All the people paying mortgages and changing diapers also think have they made wrong choices and is their current life making them happy .
Becoming happy in one's life is an internal journey it has little do with it social life /career /family/wealth we have or don't.
Religion /cults / self improvement /therapy (some types) are all businesses that that thrive on selling their flavour solution to the problem. Maybe they even work for some.
It is hard to say what works best for anyone.
I find learning new tech/writing more code I want to write rather than what someone pays me to do helps.
Sometimes even spending weekends cleaning up/refactoring even code from work makes my work week feel way better and less stressed.
I don't remember the exact quote, but Pratchett suggested ( if you are willing to listen to strangers on the net ), and I happen to agree, that focusing on looks is a fools errand. Looks fade. Kisses get less enticing. Cooking skills only get better.
I remember my 20s and 30s through a haze of various mistakes. Eventually, I decided enough is enough and opted for 'boring' and 'normal', because, as it turns out, I am pretty boring. Is it possible that you simply did not reach your limit when it comes to hedonistic endeavors?
My cooking skills have definitely degraded from my 20s to my 30s.
The financial cost of ordering out is no longer significant enough to worry about cooking more, and by the 30s I have become wiser and made peace with the fact I am terrible cook and won't even try and without practice any skill degrades.
When I was single I would just cook some meat on a stovetop with some sautéed vegetables, cook frozen pizzas, or make basic sandwiches or burritos, but my wife (who I started dating in my mid 30s, btw) insists on cooked food when we don't do takeout, so over time we've built up some go-to recipes that aren't hard to make (although a bit time-consuming sometimes because of chopping veggies and slicing/browning chicken), maybe you'll find them useful.
For equipment, consider getting an instant pot for sure, and then maybe eventually a slow cooker, a deep square pan for the stove (that can hold a 3-4 servings of a meal), a nice sturdy spatula (or 3) like the Joseph Joseph Uni-Tool 5-in-1, and a vegetable chopper (to make dicing onions, green peppers, and celery super fast).
Chicken fajitas are pretty easy. Slice some onions and yellow peppers length-wise, cut chicken breasts into strips, mix together a few spices (can make a big batch of the spice mix ahead of time and store in another spice bottle to make it quicker next time).
Put the chicken and veggies in a casserole dish or sheet pan, drizzle oil and the spread out the spices, then bake it at 400 degrees for about 35 minutes, serve with tortillas, shredded cheese, salsa, and anything else you would put on them.
https://www.budgetbytes.com/oven-fajitas/
Chili is another one that you can just toss several ingredients into a slow cooker in the morning, and by evening it'll be ready for dinner and last a few days. Basically dump some cans of beans (rinse first), diced tomatoes, tomato sauce, and beef broth, then a diced onion, meat, chili powder and other spices, then maybe experiment a bit.
https://natashaskitchen.com/slow-cooker-chili-recipe/
A few other recipes we do fairly often that are hard to get wrong even if your measurements aren't exact:
https://emilybites.com/2015/10/spicy-taco-gnocchi-skillet.ht...
https://www.skinnytaste.com/lasagna-soup/
https://www.graceandgoodeats.com/skillet-enchilada-rice/
https://www.thisisnotdietfood.com/instant-pot-cheesy-buffalo...
https://www.eatingonadime.com/instant-pot-chicken-and-dumpli...
https://cafedelites.com/cajun-butter-steak-bites/ (we mix them in with some cooked egg noodles)
https://lexiscleankitchen.com/crock-pot-stuffed-pepper-soup/
Good luck! I was in a similar position a few years ago but now I'm glad I found some recipes we can cook that offer something different from what's easily accessible from nearby restaurants sometimes, to add a bit more variety.
Take some time to do some true introspection and consider obtaining a therapist. What are you are living is a common human experience.
1. Your outlook seems quite negative and judgmental. Start there. Acceptance is key.
2. It’s hard to be at peace with others and find enjoyment in life if you’re not at peace with yourself. Do not judge yourself and your feelings but recognize that you will need to commit to change if you truly want it.
For me personally, my happiness is rooted in gratitude. Thankfulness that I’ve been born at the time I was born and inhabiting the space of loving, imperfect people who care for me. My life is much better than what my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents experienced. I am the culmination of their sacrifice and perseverance. I am their dreams come true. This is my North Star that strengthens me when I’m down and helps me remain empathetic and open to others. Be a good friend to others; and you will find they will be friendly to you.
The good news is it sounds like you have absolutely nothing.
How I would love to move to Taiwan or Vietnam for six months making my current salary and work remote right now.
Or even one month.
Wouldn’t it be fun to go to Europe, take a train across the continent and work on a laptop.
Or an Airbnb in Barbados.
Who convinced you that you have to stay in this little box at a time when developer jobs are in unlimited supply?
Where did you learn that you have to constrain your options to your local environment only?
And I will tell you: The city and location do matter. You may not be crazy to conclude that only other people like yourself settle for a work / life balance like this in that city.
A small local demographic problem turns into a major existential problem for you. No one young and fun wants to live in a boring ass city, suburb or financial center bereft of culture.
Go to Nashville. Go to Colorado.
I have been very surprised visiting Chicago, for example, at how vibrant and different and friendly people were.
And visiting Austin. Wow, you can go to live music all night for $15 and walk around between bars and there is culture to experience.
Or in Taipei. Woah, people hang out in cafes reading books at 2am at all night bookstores.
If you feel like your life sucks and your environment sucks, it probably does.
Lot of people I know literally just book a ticket and stay in hostels around Japan or Asia or Europe. Cheap, meet people, work remote.
Biggest challenge is going to be your unwillingness to take even the smallest risk. That is on you.
I sold my modest house. Quit my job. Started traveling. I had one friend in VN who left two weeks after I arrived. Through online dating apps and running clubs, I met a ton of new friends and lived in several countries. It wasn’t all roses. There were so really lonely times, but I went through that in the States, too.
Basically, if you are lucky enough to be healthy and able to scrape together $30k (a lot for some, I know), then you can live a pretty fascinating life for a year in a ton of fascinating places.
Traveling may not be a bad idea, but it won't necessarily fix anything because "wherever you go, there you are"
And I believe what you say is very true, although I'm one of the ones that easily move and embrace the change - I think I keep doing it for the fun and the challenge and simply out of curiosity. At least that's what I tell myself, since I've had to _really_ think if I was trying to run away from anything whenever I did choose to move, exactly because of that expression and of this song.
ps. I also went into my notes and found this gem, which I've really enjoyed reading some time ago: https://moretothat.com/travel-is-no-cure-for-the-mind/
A difference between guys born in the 60/70s vs 90/2000s is that we were a lot less picky about the chicks we banged. Not sure what changed in the culture but I don't think the current situation is optimal for anyone.
BTW, I know that I am not speaking for everyone from these age groups but I am comparing boys I grew up with vs my boys who were born between 1990 and 2004.
porn, instagram etc.
* Train for a 10k run and then train for a half marathon.
* Join a local charity and contribute towards your community.
* Join the military and learn new skills while traveling the world.
* Build something with your hands such as modeling or wood working.
* Write. Writing is a skill so no matter what you are writing it will take some practice.
* Get a pet to raise and cherish it. My cats and dogs are among my closest life companions.
* Go back to school and work on a graduate degree.
Some tips:
- move to a city - things are much much easier in a city as people are more transient, groups aren't as established, and new people arrive all the time
- it sounds like you have some friends - ask them if they have any friends in your area you should meet platonically
- the easiest way to make friends is an activity: you mentioned a hobby, but it can be anything - a running group, the gym, board games, etc. The more non-nerdy, the more likely you are to find non-nerdy people
- if you're like me, you struggle to make friends because it's not "easy" like it was in college. Friends in your 30s take work: reaching out, texting, scheduling, planning, etc.
- it sounds like you're not in therapy. So let me be the first to tell you that you're depressed (that "apathy" you're feeling is depression). Which is fine, it happens us all. But go to therapy because that's how you solve that. Just try it for a month, no pressure.
- activism: go canvas for a politician you like
- charity work: lots of people down at the soup kitchen, the local thrift shop, etc
This one might be a bit tricky...
You'll feel better for doing good things for people who need good things.
And you'll also feel better because it'll give you a truer baseline to look at your own life. Are there things you want to change? Sure! But it's easy to forget what you've got, viscerally.
IMHO, a huge part of suburban malaise is losing touch with what the worst life problems look like. Which isn't to say your problems aren't valid or real! But is to say that "My life is all problems" happens a lot more when we've forgotten the possibility of not having a roof, food in the fridge, electricity and water on, etc.
* Stifling lack of local prospects; in SC, the majority of jobs were "over the hill" (SJ/SV) making it a bedroom community. Portland has a little more going on for itself but it doesn't have the strong jobs pull of a city like Austin, which Portland has often been compared to in the past.
* Isolated city. If you leave Portland you reach rural farmland relatively quickly compared to larger US metros, which have a cluster of coties SC as noted has some distance to the city, but also proximity to farms east around Watsonville. SC being a college town with a major university contributes to the difference, bringing in a wider young demographic. In both cases this contrast and close proximity enables a dynamic of "city vs country", which exploded in Portland in 2020's protests with aggressive displays and a fatal shooting.
* Ethno-nationalist legacy: Portland was designed to be whites-first and only reversed on that relatively recently. California harbors some of these sentiments, but mostly not as strongly. It adds a layer to the culture that, while not always blatancy obvious, makes it feel more insular.
Besides, NOLA is fine. Murders aren't evenly distributed; there are plenty of perfectly safe spots and lots of safe activities to do.
However, OP seems unhappy with their current life and is unsure how to fix it. Therapy often can help with that - its not just for depressed people.
It's important to understand the possibilities. Fortunately today with the internet it's easy to search for symptoms and go to a doctor, and I'd highly recommend that to OP and anyone else who thinks they might need it.
Think: If you see benefit from therapy are you not more likely to keep going?
Therapy has helped me anyway.
Uncharitably I've seen this framed as something like "therapists only help people with simple problems."
When someone recommends therapy, just treat it like you would any other recommendation that doesn’t need to trigger a “that doesn’t apply universally!” response. Nobody is forcing anyone to do therapy. Many people find it helpful. Many people don’t. Still quite reasonable for GP to say “therapy helps” with an implied “in my opinion.”
And I am neither anti-therapy nor pro-therapy (only a simpleton would have an unnuanced position on such a complex topic). Next time please refrain from attempting to put words into my mouth, it is disrespectful and adds nothing of value to your comment.
"Professional help" is not always positive. If you have internal issues to fix, external help may or may not be the right thing for you. There's absolutely no standard approach for this kind of things.
> a therapist (a good one)
So what they end up with a bad one, was that good advice?
> So let me be the first to tell you that you're depressed
Yup. OP, sounds like you could do well with (and afford) tele-therapy.
This may sound crazy, but join a Crossfit gym.
Look on google maps, find one that is convenient, show up, talk to the coach, and sign up for a month.
Crossfit is instant community. And you will get fit and feel better about yourself while you do it.
Will it solve everything? Maybe not. But there's it's SUCH a simple way to make real progress on isolation, health, and self esteem.
There are a million other great activities and communities. Few are as easy to find and as consistently positive as Crossfit. (And it does't have to literally be "Crossfit" but if it isn't, then you are in a search mode, which leads to hesitation, reasons not to, and doing nothing.)
As internet people debate in a lengthy thread about what normal people do. :-)
Have kids?
As far as I understand it, software engineers in the Bay Area have two common hobbies: indoor rock-climbing at Planet Granite and ballroom dancing. I would never have guessed how common they are, but it is what it is. D&D is a distant third.
Lol that’s the absolute polar opposite of what the OP wants. They want to get away from other engineers like them and to meet some different people.
also kiteboarding
But, with the CrossFit suggestion and this one, I think that the exercise component is just as important as the social aspects. Exercise can help just as much mentally as physically. The notion on a “runners high” is a real effect.
Being able to do it alone or in a group is also a bonus. I have run both with a club and by myself. You don’t have to wait for someone else to get started. You can join a gym or you can run outside. If you have running shoes, you can start today. (Okay, if you’re in the northeast, you might want to wait a few days…)
Another benefit to running — your coding will get better. Seriously. When you have time to stop and think more about a problem, away from the keyboard, problems get easier to solve. I’ve debugged several issues just by stopping and going for a run.
Finally the feeling of finishing a race — no matter the distance — is great. You don’t need to run in a race to get the other benefits, but it’s nice to have a goal.
More laid back: join a weekly bikes-with-lights social biking group. Weekly trivia, meetups at bars for tech people, new people to the area, karaoke, etc. Play to your strengths/likes. Run and hit the gym to boost social confidence (now I am back at crossfit ;). Learn how to dress up just slightly more than standard for any occasion (non exercise that is) if you don't already know.
It's easier to make friends outside of work if you build some structure or drive into your life beyond work. Become interesting by having interests. Whatever you choose to do, keep doing it and eventually you will meet like minded souls.
I wonder where OP is. Location might have a say in what's popular and help find a matching interest.
Here's a good, to the point summary of a lot of things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgH_9Iy7_mQ (lot's of good advice from this guy I think, I the fact that he's selling you on his channel doesn't put you off)
0.) dress just a little bit nicer than average. Do this by simply dressing for the occasion and most likely it will just happen.
https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/bfxiqb/how_to_d...
1.) Wear clothes that fit
https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/ehrtv/sh... https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/1hr3nk/h...
2.) Wear a watch:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/2mkg05/rwatches_bu... https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1oawc3/meta_watche...
3.) understand when to wear what shoe
https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/p7usf/sh...
4.) Going out? Got a date? Wear a blazer:
https://suitsupply.com/en-us/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNe1dkaTfg0 (youtube, content starts at 2:06 or so. this guy wears more snickers than I'd be comfortable with, but it's fine for him, and yeah, anyway, some good ideas there)
Also critical, no how a suit should fit, tie your ties, etc. Reddit it all over this stuff so google reddit with your particular question and you should be on your way.
I hope that helps!
The other day, they even organized a hiking activity in the Parnitha mountains outside of Athens, and it felt like an adventure. It's a great community to be part of. My trainer even jokes I should be paying him a extra therapist fee.
Not to mention I met my, probably, future wife at the gym :)
The Crossfit WODs, a very physically intense workout, at the end everyone usually has a runners high and is sort of relaxed, has a similar effect on me like drinking with others.
The pain shared from fighting through grueling WODs with others creates great bonds/cameraderie, similar to those marches in the military service. Go through a few hero wods together and you develop great trust.
Endless small talk possibility with other crossfitters. Everyone loves to enthusiastically chat about exercises, the last few wods, etc. And immediate connection, like if u studied at the same university.
Last point applies to other sports as well, but IMO, it's a lot stronger with crossfit.
I remember my own phase of loneliness and isolation. I remember sitting on the couch bemoaning my fate. Day after day. The same story. Then I finally took an action that literally changed my life.
The key was that I did something RIGHT THEN, as opposed to planning to do something or thinking about why something wasn't quite right.
Go start your journey of 10,000 miles. Do it now.
I actually came to CrossFit through reading Tucker Max's book "Mate" (ISBN-10: 0316375365) which I also recommend you read. Good luck brother.
I'd also add the more "regular", the more likely you are to find regular people. The stereotypical events & hobbies recommended for meeting people can unsurprisingly wind up chock-full of outcast-sorts who are also looking to meet people. If you want to find a real group, and a variety of ordinary folks, you want to expressly avoid all the sort of things Lonely Joe Developer would try.
(Nothing wrong with loner types, but a concentrated bunch of loners is not a great foundation for building a strong social group)
When I first moved to my current city, I joined one, and met a couple who became some of my best friends here. I never would have met them were it not for the group. I realize that not everyone will have the same experience, I just don't see why "recommend board game groups" is rejected as bad advice.
I agree with you that it isn't bad advice per se. But it should probably come with a warning that the local group might just be full of weirdos and to cut your losses if that seems to be the case.
You don't go to the boardgame group because everyone there will be your ideal friendship candidate. You go to find a few people who you get on well with, then invite them over to your place or to some common ground for boardgames (or other mutually enjoyable activity) outside of the group and without the socially inept.
I firmly second their advice on seeing a therapist.
As you age “living your best life” will take different forms. You just have to stick with trying to “live your best life”.
Good luck and I hope this discussion here gives you some actionable advice that you can implement.
Just be careful what you are asking for. Non-nerdy people are becoming extremely boring in their 30's. I'm not sure why you would prefer discussing celebrities/sports results/car/superficial politics with good looking people instead of having a great time and connecting with people and not caring about how they look.
Hopefully you can find interesting (/nerdy in the sense they like to learn deeply and methodically about a subject) people in nearly every activity.
Don't listen to this guy. Don't let people keyboard diagnose you. You can go falk to a therapist if you want an actual diagnosis (although you state that you don't, which seems fine to me).
1) covid's almost over, and that'll help
2) Burning Man? I'm semi-serious here.
3) After 10 years away from writing code, I took a full stack contract to do something esoteric and difficult, without a tight deadline. It took me nearly three months to recover 100% of my coding capability, and after the contract ended, nearly three months to recover my social skills.
It's a very very hard job. To be better than the technical problem is much, much harder than being better than (say) competing bankers or lawyers. The opponents are not human when you write code. They're harder to defeat.
Heed well the wisdom of one Benjamin Franklin:
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-03-02-00...
in the dark all Cats are grey
It helped me! But not sure if what you want.
Moving to NYC completely changed my perspective and my life. Moving also had other impacts: it forced a change of scenery, forced me to make new friends, learn about new parks, learn all new neighborhoods to walk through with no prior memories, I felt inspired with new ideas for the first time in a long time, forced new hobbies and ways of spending time (hello volleyball! hello going to 5 networking events in one night!) and the process of introducing myself to new people over and over made me realize I didn't like what I was doing for work.
I'm not advocating for NYC specifically. I was in Austin last weekend and felt a similar draw there, so if I was 30 and in that stuck spot today that's probably where I'd go to start. There's an energy that dense cities have that forces change, in my experience.
Good luck to you! It can be a very rewarding journey.
Remember that happiness is relative to your last phase, there is no such thing as "peak".