Ask HN: What if someone discovers Satoshi's secret Bitcoin seed?

16 points by linuxdeveloper ↗ HN
Exactly as the title says - what if someone (by chance) discovers Satoshi's secret Bitcoin seed which controls over a million coins.

How does that play out?

25 comments

[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 75.9 ms ] thread
The value of Bitcoin would plummet.
In the medium term the market may realize the available stock just increased, which would improve stock:flow production numbers which could increase the price.
(comment deleted)
It'd be an immense drop for a long time, I'd imagine. There's 19 million coins mined total, so really it should only drop the price by about 1/19th if things were totally rational, but people will rush to sell ahead of that as soon as they saw it move, and we could see it go down to.... maybe even the low hundreds of dollars, and then people will start buying it again and it should eventually (over several years) bring it back up to, I'm guessing, around 50% of whatever its value was when the event happened, possibly over 5+ years.

There's about 1.3 million coins circulating on all exchanges as of December 2021[1] (might be higher since the sell-off but I don't see more recent numbers), so assuming everyone held but that wallet (which they won't, but let's pretend for a minute), it'd double the available supply, which I'm guessing would halve the price by itself.

There' still not enough coins for every fiat millionaire on the planet to have a whole coin (56 million millionaires globally)[2] , even with that additional 1.1 million coins flooding the market, so assuming faith in bitcoin isn't permanently shattered at that point, it'll most likely more-or-less recover eventually.

I'm sure that some people will use it as an opportunity to finally become a 'whole-coiner' (owning a whole bitcoin) and/or keep accumulating even when they're dirt cheap, trusting it will go up eventually (I will probably keep throwing $100 a month into it). I suspect those people will find a way to have large, early bitcoin-era gains from it again if they can hold onto it for several years. Make owning the OG bitcoin cool again or something (or hell, might get old enough that nostalgia kicks in and it's cool to own again).

[1]: https://www.thestreet.com/crypto/news/only-1-3-million-bitco...

[2]: https://fortunly.com/statistics/millionaire-statistics/#gref

I was playing out this concept the other day in my head and came to much the same conclusion.
Plot twist: OP already found it and is planning his move.

Seriously though: what is this "seed" and what would its disclosure mean for bitcoin?

Anachronistically.

There is no seed. The seed concept was only invented years after Satoshi left. Early wallets had no seed. They were collections of random keys. That’s why so much early coin is lost. No way to rederive random keys.

Sorry about your dreams of satoshis 12-24 words, but this is not how it was.

It is theoretically possible that one of said early private keys is randomly derived from a memnoic phrase. The chances however are miniscule.
In fact, all possible keys are derivable from a single seed. The BIP32 algorithm run for all inputs will produce all possible 256-bit ints. Of course, finding the path derivation is equivalent to brute forcing the key space anyway.
“Seed” is obviously semantics guys..

The answer is if you found or derived private keys for those addresses, you need to pre-arrange trades for them with an OTC desk or two to lock in a price. As soon as the coins are moved the entire market will be aware and reprice the asset based on the expanded supply.

OTC desks typically wont ask which address the funds are coming from so dont tell them the whole amount. Just make the trades after setting it up.

This is assuming you want fiat currency, not everyone does.

I don't see any reason to believe that it's a semantic distinction. I'm pretty sure this is a more basic, misguided question.
Yeah, probably, it is also clear they’re asking about access or control no matter how they got there
It’s a misguided question because as we know BIP32/39 are circa 2013, well after the satoshi period.
I didn't know BIP32/39 were enacted in 2013. I was referring to the private cryptographic key to the original wallet.
I guess I don't see literally anything in OP's text to indicate that whatsoever, plus the fact that it seems to leave it open as a real possibility.

If the question was about magically coming into control of a wallet.dat, or how would a whale sell-off, or you know, anything more substantive, then I'd agree, but...

Do you mean their private cryptographic key?

Besides being a statisical feat along the lines of being struck by lightning every day for a year while also winning the lottery every day, whomever got that key would potentially be obscenely rich. However, spending the money would be a challenge.

That said they'd have to be very very careful. Hopefully the only kind of person that would find that key would have the additional good sense of security and paranoia that Satoshi also had. They'd keep their mouth shut and work hard to keep the secret of their discovery to themselves.

If I had that I'd break it up into a few tens of thousands of smaller wallets and then transfer those directly to different exchanges before chashing out. Or maybe try to find a big company to sell them to.

Let's run the numbers. You're saying 2^{-256} ~ P_rare_day^{365}, so that would make P_rare_day 2^{-256/365} ~ 61%. Not rare at all...

If we put P_rare_day at a more realistic 1 in a billion, or ~ 2^{-30}, then it only takes 8.53 rare days in a row...

Tangent: what's the tax situation of .. let's say 'guessing' a private key that gives you access to brand new funds you had zero initial cost of acquisition?

I suppose framing it like that, in a conventional system (at least) it's fraud.

Is it fraud because there was zero acquisition cost? If it were the real Satoshi (let's pretend for this that Satoshi was one person and not a team at NSA), wouldn't that Satoshi also have zero acquisition cost?
Not because no, being gifted something isn't fraud, I just meant that when I broke it down into simply what it is I realised it's like finding a credit card and guessing the PIN.
I don't think that analogy holds though. In the case of a found credit card, there is an aggrieved party is defrauded. As far as anyone can tell, there is no actual person who is Satoshi. If there were, he would be one of the ten richest people in the world, and yet not a single bitcoin has been moved to indicate he exists. So there is no aggrieved party and thus nobody defrauded.

The biggest issue would be the massive sell off that would happen if those coins were moved and sold. It would shake crypto to the foundation.