Have the chance to move to USA or Canada – which one would you choose?
In Canada I get PR relatively soon, at worst it would take one year. In the US, I would get a Green Card in two years.
My parents live in India and one day I want them living with me, and that is easier in the US too as there is no lottery or wait time for immediate relatives (Canada has lottery system, 200k people apply for the same 20k spots and more and more people will be applying each year). But, Canada has a Supervisa system where parents can come to Canada with me as a PR and live for two years.
Most importantly, for the future, opportunities are limitless in the US, salaries are 2x to 3x that of Canada, healthcare is better and faster, houses are cheaper (except SF and maybe NYC) compared to Toronto. I know very well-educated engineers and doctors from Canada moving to the US for these reasons - future seems bleak for Canada.
What would you do?
50 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 107 ms ] threadNobody's refuting the fact that you created the perfect conditions to get an abominable number of mass shootings. You say that like it's a good or interesting thing, maybe brag about your healthcare system.
I'm very thankful to live in a country where even +99% of criminals don't have guns. And by the way even if I do get shot here, I won't go bankrupt paying the hospital, no matter how much I earn.
Human right? Lmao. I'll do you one better, owning tanks and nukes should be a human right, you're not a real free country if you can't start a war from your backyard.
That's just a reflect of your ignorance. You live in a bubble and you're ignorant about your own country, I don't have time to do google search for you.
What you're really talking about is either one of a few different statements offered up about guns, none of which really add up:
1. "Guns can be used to defend yourself from a tyrannous government" (a wholly impractical proposition - you're not going to stop the third largest army on their own home turf with a small cabal of renegade soldiers. You could even argue this is an irresponsible proposition, because government needs your participation as a stakeholder and beneficiary to improve, not your suspicion. If a civil situation gets to the point where the only way out is to overthrow a corrupt government, you don't need a constitutional right to guns to accomplish that - the original American revolutionaries certainly did not)
2. "Guns can be used to defend yourself from other people in the failure or absence of law enforcement intervention" (sure, but this property is not unique to guns - carry mace or a switchblade, weapons that limit unintended damage)
There's nothing a gun can't do that safer weapons can't accomplish, and nothing a gun could do that would alter the equation in favour of needing them. Perhaps there's a reason why guns are needed as a right that I am not aware of, and I'd be open to hearing it, but on the whole there's nothing really going for them.
Of course you can always find a few exceptions to this, but Canadians do not live in fear.
Where is the innovation? Future really seems bleak in Canada if you don't already own a home.
I visited Canada and have relatives there. They're "rich" now because they bought housing twenty years ago but for the new generation the future seems bleak. Those who studied Medicine or Software or have in demand skills seem to keep moving to the US because they instantly double their salary.
USA=hell on earth.
I would double check that USA Green Card timeline, a friend is still waiting for many more years.
Are you sure about that? I'm in the US an have colleges here who are from India and who have been waiting eight years for a green card.
That said, I believe you may be being a bit overly optimistic about the green card / visa situation in the US.
The social safety net here is failing, it is starved for money. That funding is being diverted to the military industrial complex, and tax cuts for the rich.
> In the US, I would get a Green Card in two years.
This may be a too optimistic of a timeline.
> My parents live in India and one day I want them living with me.
If you were born in India, the wait times for your green card are in decades, assuming you fall into one of the more common immigration categories. I am not sure when you would be able to file for green cards for your parents, but it's most likely not before you have a green card yourself.
Could sponsor my parents once I'm citizen after about 7-8 years.
- The health insurance industry in the US has a lot of problems, even if you have "good" insurance provided by a top employer. I needed a procedure earlier this year for a potentially life-threatening tumor (turned out fine, thankfully). Despite the procedure being recommended by an esteemed specialist, I had trouble getting it approved. I had to "shop around" for facilities that my insurance would approve to get the tumor removed. Bureaucracy is the last thing you want to understand the deal with when you don't know if you have cancer. Also, even after the insurance, I still had a bill in the $1-2k range. There are lots of worse horror stories dealing with our adversarial insurance system.
- British Colombia is one of the most beautiful places on earth, with some of the best food as well.
- US is much, much more violent. There are more guns here than people.
That said, I do live in the US for now. The 2-3x salary difference is hard to ignore.
One can work for US based companies remotely from Canada and if you are still inclined you can work in the US on a TN Visa (which is trivial to acquire once you are a Canadian citizen).
I don't have much to add beyond that. I am a Canadian citizen who has lived and worked in both countries. I wouldn't pay much attention to people painting either country as a 'hell hole' as some in this thread are doing. Both countries are fine and culturally there isn't a big difference between the between the two as long as you are living in a big metro in the US.
The USA is a business and for me the only reason to be here is work. Here I need to worry about violent crime (been mugged), healthcare (took a gov't job just for the health benefits), cost of education, cost of housing (rent a room from my gf). I had a condo here which I sold. I plow my $ into ancesral real estate in Canada. In '95 I worried about Quebec separating, the language politics and 10% structural unemployment.
Given the recent coup attempt here and the rapid decline of the US home is looking better and better.
The US has amazing opportunities career-wise, though. Obviously, it pays much more than Canada or any country in Europe considering the same job level.
Healthcare might also not be "better and faster" or houses "cheaper" than Canada. You excluded SF and NYC but then proceeded to compare with Toronto, which would be the "equivalent" of these two cities in Canada. So that's not a fair comparison. Prices are very much bloated in the US. Everything costs a lot of money so you also make a lot.
All in all, it really depends on what you want for your life. Which country do you identify the most in terms of their values (yes, that's a real thing)? Have you met Americans and Canadians? People play a large role in how your life is gonna be day-to-day, so you might benefit from such a perspective. You can probably make money in any first-world country in the world and have more or less the same things (a roof over your head, health, education, quality food).
You'll most certainly have more disposable income at the end of the month in the US.
pros:
> Healthcare is better and faster
I disagree with that, public healthcare has its problems but you don't have to worry about ever paying. Healthcare in the US is very expensive, there is always a risk that you are not covered by your insurance and get hit by ridiculous medical bills.
- The biggest difference you would find is culture. Canada still has the political culture war but it is much more mild. Our government does not have the same deadlock that the US has.
- Canada also tends to be more friendly to immigrants. Our politics are more progressive, and Canada is immigrant nation. The percentage of minorities is much higher.
- Our summers are very temperate. This might be personal preference, but I prefer being too cold over being too hot.
cons:
- If you want the big city life, the USA is better. We have big cities i.e. Toronto but it doesn't really compare
- Winters are cold, most cities are manageable but the cold is deal breaker for some people.
In Canada it appears to be listed as 'Visible Minority' 22.3% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_minority
In the USA they use Ethnic groups, 38.4% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
The United Kingdom use Ethnic groups, 12.9% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
We also pay a fraction for our single-payer healthcare, and pay absolutely nothing out of pocket. Drugs are not free, but are heavily subsidized.
I would also use healthcare for my own choice to never live in the United States. Not only do Canadians spend about half as much towards healthcare in our taxes, but we also pay absolutely nothing else. In the States, you personally see nothing for the amounts that you are taxed, and you have to have medical insurance on top of that. Finally, said medical insurance comes with crippling co-pays and deductibles that severely discourage people from seeing a doctor until the time for treatment has come and gone, and palliative care is the only remaining option. Even a single emergency visit to the hospital is sufficient to wipe out years or even decades of savings.
Before 2014 it used to be that if you wanted your parents to immigrate then it was almost impossible (or very expensive) to afford private US healthcare for them becase they wouldn't qualify for Medicare for at least 5 years. Healthcare in the US is expensive without a health insurance plan to offset costs.
Since then, my understanding is that the combination of Obama's ACA and Biden's recent ARP now allows purchasing affordable elderly healthcare insurance plans a possibility until they qualify for Medicare.
Canada is great for multi-generational families wishing to be in one place together at around the same time since healthcare is often the biggest problem for elderly parents. But if only your nuclear family (you, spouse, kids) will be immigrating for a longer period before your parents arrive, then perhaps the US would be better.
Why not stay in India and built your enterprise there. The West is on the way downwards, India is on the way upwards. It's the Asian Century. *
Also, why put your parents through a huge disruption in their lives by taking them away from India? Why not keep them in India where they are comfortable and are familiar with everything?
* Watch for the dissenting opinions! :)