After flying JetBlue and WestJet, where full carry-on bags were not included in the fare (small backpacks that fit under the seat were allowed), I will never bring a full size carry-on again. Most of the delay is people fighting for overhead bins and blocking aisles, and most of the stress for me is trying to board as early as possible (I always sneak in at least 2 zones ahead of where I'm supposed to).
The airlines created this problem for themselves by forcing people to pay additional for checked baggage when fuel prices were high. This is the unintended consequence of that action.
Bring back checked bags as part of the flight cost and not some a la carte race to the bottom pricing model.
I wonder if it can help. Carry on is partly about cost, but for many is mostly about efficiency. If they can speed up the baggage claim, it might make people more likely to use it.
The time delay of baggage claim is actually rather small compared to getting to an airport, getting through security, waiting for the plane, etc. But it looms large because you really just want to get to your destination rather than wait for one more thing. Aiding the perception of that interval will matter more than the actual time.
Airports are aware of that and in Houston they changed it so you will walk longer making you wait less for your bags at baggage claim. Sadly, people who didn't check bags also get penalized.
I find checking the bag to be just as bothersome as waiting to pick it up. I feel like I have to double the amount of time I spend at the airport. Some airlines have kiosks where you tag your bag yourself, but they're not reliable enough for me to show up later for.
One checked bag should be included (at this point most everyone knows how to tag and check their own bag, staff is only needed to help the few people who can't do that - think elderly, disabled, or at rural airports with people who don't fly often).
And small carry-ons (small enough to fit under seat, even if actually placed overhead) should be included.
Large carry-ons, that can't fit under a seat, should be an extra. They slow down everyone else, including the crew.
I got the nastiest look from a gate agent because I didn’t know how to put the tag on right. I’ve been flying for years. But my parents raised me to never ever check a bag. This was the first time I had to.
I read somewhere else that checked bags compete with other freight that airlines can carry for money, which is why they’re expensive. Maybe they don’t earn as much from freight as from faster turnarounds?
Ok, maybe people forget, but after 911 security became such a pain that people favored checking bags over carrying on roller boards. Boarding was a dream.
We absolutely know that getting rid of checked bag fees reduces carryon drastically. Get rid of checked bag fees. 90% of people will check, time stowing baggage drops in half, boarding is fast and painless.
We have the evidence to show this works, the airlines just don’t want to admit it.
Planes were built in the first place to have plenty of cargo space outside of the passenger cabin and only a little bit cargo space directly inside the cabin so that the passenger cabin could focus on other amenities. Checked baggage wasn't just a convenience, it was a necessary engineering trade-off to keep cabin space comfortable. It's no surprise that the comfort of the cabin space has directly decreased as checked baggage fees contributed to a massive tragedy of the commons in the passengers cabin space.
The "premium", more finite resource space is passenger cabin space. If the fees were truly about market economics (rather than just fake profits the airlines knew they could get away with) you'd expect that the actually more limited space would be the one with fees and that they'd be charging carry-on fees, not checked baggage fees. (I think that would be amazing how much it would streamline TSA security checks, boarding, and deplaning if they charged fees per carry-on.)
Cost is almost entirely unrelated to why I prefer to use carry-ons. If it was only a matter of waiting at the destination, I probably would check my bags. But checking a bag comes with the risk that:
- It could get lost
- I could miss a connection for any reason and thus be separated from it
- It could get damaged by airline employees not paid enough to care
- It could be stolen or have items stolen from within
Altogether, these risks are way too high for me. So I have a backpack that's as big as they'll let me carry on and try to never pack more than what fits inside. The only time I'll check a bag is if I'm bringing something that I can't take through security or if I absolutely need to bring a bunch of luggage. In that latter case I keep the most important stuff in my carry-on.
There's a derivative of the first option, which is that it's "temporarily" lost. As in, you get it eventually, unaltered. But, like, several days later, which is super inconvenient.
The delayed bag has happened to me a couple of times. When it's at your destination, it really sucks. But when it's at home, it's great, because you're not missing anything important and are eligible for free clothes: https://airpassengerrights.ca/en/practical-guides/baggage/de...
Wait in line to pay to check my bag and then wait after I get off the plane at the baggage carousel. Easily 30 minutes and sometimes well over an hour combined.
…or have a slower boarding experience.
I think Delta doesn’t understand why people carry their bags.
Really what Delta is trying to do is speed up all the regional and short hop flights and commuter flights, because aircraft turnaround is a big drag on them in those situations. And if I'm not mistaken, the longer flights would involve a crew change anyway.
Those flights are going to get massively disrupted in the next decade. I know self-driving gets absolutely hammered here, but highway self driving should be a lot more achievable, and when it is, airlines are going to face a reckoning.
I can't wait for highway self-driving to automate 95% of a 400-800 mile trip. No airports, lines, crotches, baggage junk (just pile what you need into the car), crammed in like sardines, no/crappy food, wait for rental car, 1/2 the price (or WAY less if you have a family). Did I mention you get to leave when you want on a moment's notice with no scheduling 10-30 days in advance to get the "best rate"?
A 400 mile trip is practically a wash in time with airport rigamarole, cheaper, and you get to bring a lot more stuff.
A 600 mile trip? Well, a bit crappy, but if highway self driving is up to standard, you can sleep for a lot of that.
An 800 mile trip? Sure if you're single, you'll pick the flight. Family? The economics and PITA of getting a family packed organized and corralled to the airport... I'd still drive it if I didn't have to do the highway concentration drudgery.
And when self-driving EV RVs with foldout solar arrays and starlink/5G internet become a thing...
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 69.2 ms ] threadBring back checked bags as part of the flight cost and not some a la carte race to the bottom pricing model.
The time delay of baggage claim is actually rather small compared to getting to an airport, getting through security, waiting for the plane, etc. But it looms large because you really just want to get to your destination rather than wait for one more thing. Aiding the perception of that interval will matter more than the actual time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/why-waitin...
I find checking the bag to be just as bothersome as waiting to pick it up. I feel like I have to double the amount of time I spend at the airport. Some airlines have kiosks where you tag your bag yourself, but they're not reliable enough for me to show up later for.
And small carry-ons (small enough to fit under seat, even if actually placed overhead) should be included.
Large carry-ons, that can't fit under a seat, should be an extra. They slow down everyone else, including the crew.
The idea being that people took assigned seating in an optimally layed out lounge gate seating area and then shuffled in, in order.
Loosely loading people on the left in even isles and on the right in uneven isles also reduced congestion.
We absolutely know that getting rid of checked bag fees reduces carryon drastically. Get rid of checked bag fees. 90% of people will check, time stowing baggage drops in half, boarding is fast and painless.
We have the evidence to show this works, the airlines just don’t want to admit it.
The "premium", more finite resource space is passenger cabin space. If the fees were truly about market economics (rather than just fake profits the airlines knew they could get away with) you'd expect that the actually more limited space would be the one with fees and that they'd be charging carry-on fees, not checked baggage fees. (I think that would be amazing how much it would streamline TSA security checks, boarding, and deplaning if they charged fees per carry-on.)
If I’m in the back, I just look RIGHT THROUGH those rich snobs.
- It could get lost
- I could miss a connection for any reason and thus be separated from it
- It could get damaged by airline employees not paid enough to care
- It could be stolen or have items stolen from within
Altogether, these risks are way too high for me. So I have a backpack that's as big as they'll let me carry on and try to never pack more than what fits inside. The only time I'll check a bag is if I'm bringing something that I can't take through security or if I absolutely need to bring a bunch of luggage. In that latter case I keep the most important stuff in my carry-on.
…or have a slower boarding experience.
I think Delta doesn’t understand why people carry their bags.
Those flights are going to get massively disrupted in the next decade. I know self-driving gets absolutely hammered here, but highway self driving should be a lot more achievable, and when it is, airlines are going to face a reckoning.
I can't wait for highway self-driving to automate 95% of a 400-800 mile trip. No airports, lines, crotches, baggage junk (just pile what you need into the car), crammed in like sardines, no/crappy food, wait for rental car, 1/2 the price (or WAY less if you have a family). Did I mention you get to leave when you want on a moment's notice with no scheduling 10-30 days in advance to get the "best rate"?
A 400 mile trip is practically a wash in time with airport rigamarole, cheaper, and you get to bring a lot more stuff.
A 600 mile trip? Well, a bit crappy, but if highway self driving is up to standard, you can sleep for a lot of that.
An 800 mile trip? Sure if you're single, you'll pick the flight. Family? The economics and PITA of getting a family packed organized and corralled to the airport... I'd still drive it if I didn't have to do the highway concentration drudgery.
And when self-driving EV RVs with foldout solar arrays and starlink/5G internet become a thing...