Where I live (Southern California) I’d be shocked if 30% of people are even remotely complying with mandates and regulations around COVID-19.
The attitude that seems to prevail here (which I take no position on) seems to be roughly: “it’s time for vulnerable people to segregate”.
Personally I’m both vaccinated and recovered from Delta, and I don’t go maskless anywhere that there isn’t already an unmasked crowd because while I’m not a virologist I don’t like making people uncomfortable needlessly.
But I do think that we probably need a better answer than shouting down a high double digit percentage of the population who have to one degree or another reached their limit on an unbounded state of emergency running into its third year.
> I don’t like making people uncomfortable needlessly
They are feeling uncomfortable needlessly. It's not incumbent on us to indulge in peoples fear or neuroses. Anyone who wants to keep being theatrical about covid is welcome, but it makes no sense to force the rest of us to participate in their play
I don't think you understand "democratic" as its normally used. It does not mean tyranny of the majority. If it did, we would not need a constitution or Senate.
while you can argue about to what degree democracy overlaps with majoritarianism it almost definitely doesn't stand for tyranny of the minority, in this case both of the population and, funnily enough, even of truck drivers.
Respect for the constitution and the senate first and foremost implies that you follow lawfully passed legislation instead of throwing a tantrum, otherwise there's little point in having those institutions in the first place.
Eh, not really.. we're at around 90% vaccination rates... most truckers are annoyed/embarrassed by the whole situation, as it really has nothing to do with them.
This is as much about 'truckers' as 'joe the plumber' was about plumbers...
There's a minority government in Canada.. remaining in office requires the support of an opposition party.
There's continuous work to paint the political situation as incredibly fragile and mandates as highly divisive. Reality shows otherwise - we'd be talking about an election if this was an actual problem politically, and an election simply isn't in the cards.
Vaccination rate doesn't relate much to mandates support.
>Reality shows otherwise - we'd be talking about an election if this was an actual problem politically, and an election simply isn't in the cards.
Canada very rarely triggers elections mid-term. Plus, the fact that the government is a minority already indicates people are not aligned with the elected government.
I was wondering whether this could trigger a non confidence vote. This is literally the weakest I have ever seen a Canadian prime minister - but there would be no clear winner from another election given the mess the other parties are in. Honestly I think Jagmeet Singh could pivot the NDP to actually supporting working people again and take it, he is the best leader from a personal perspective right now
Not everyone is lucky enough to be in a position to be able to stand up against the mandates. A lot of people are opposed to the mandates and didn't want the vaccine, but ended up being forced to give in and take it anyway.
In Canada, we have had nonstop complaining from the media and general "elites" about this. My LinkedIn is filled with people feigning outrage that their servants would dare to stand up to them. We've been through the cliche cycle of ignoring, and making fun of, we're fully on to pushing hard propaganda against them now. Trudeau looks pathetic right now, presumably from any perspective. He is definitely in this fight, even if he'd rather not be.
Can we get a refund on those Billions spend on the covid vaccine. Triple vaccinated Trudeau getting covid, and all he said after is we need more vaccines. At this point I'm convinced he's getting kickbacks. He ordered 560 million doses when population of Canada is 38 million.
I'm not that young, and not that healthy.
My risk comes out to 1/30,000.
comparatively, my risk from dying in a car accident is 1 in 107.
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/
4. Based on the Data for Ontario. The vaccinated and unvaccinated are getting infected at the near the same rate.
Vaccinated cases were higher for the past month before dropping recently.
No one I know would take 10 doses of these vaccines. Canadians are pretty passive people. But at third dose the country is near rebellion. Good luck, thinking this will succeed.
It is customary yet inappropriate to compare vaccine efficacies and make policy decisions solely on relative risk reduction (RRR) from clinical trials with different protocols in populations with different background risks for COVID-19—unless vaccines were tested within a common trial as advocated by WHO.[3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121497//#bib3)
RRR focusses on those who benefit from the vaccine and, although more stable across event rates (levels of risk for COVID-19), its interpretation requires knowing the actual background risk and its variability. Absolute risk reduction (ARR) considers all individuals and translates conveniently into number needed to vaccinate within a population with a given risk,[3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121497//#bib3) but its public health significance varies with the risk. For any given RRR, ARR is higher when event rates are higher—eg, earlier into a vaccination programme, or in high-risk groups—and decreases as risks decline.
Both ARR and RRR are helpful to assess trade-offs between benefits and harm, because evidence is still limited on whether or how they change across the range of individual responses and risks related to age, comorbidities, behaviours, and level of exposure, as well as over time—with risk of COVID-19 decreasing with vaccination scale-up or altering due to virus variants.
I don't think you understand statistics. A 1% absolute risk reduction is huge in this scenario.
An absolute risk reduction of 1% on something with let's say a 1.2% mortality rate takes away 83% of your risk.
If your unvaxed risk is 1/30,000, then your vaxed risk is 1/150,000 just because of that 1% absolute change.
What I said was that being vaxed drastically lowers your risk. You said "that's just not true" and you followed up by saying your risk was already low, and the only difference is 1% absolute. But the 1% absolute is enormous when you look at the fact that the absolute risk is only slightly over 1% for the general population to start with.
660 million doses for 83 million people.
400 million left with unclear plans how to use them.
That's a safety buffer of about 160% if you assume three full doses for everyone, including babies.
Only 16% have been donated to other countries.
> No-one outside of the fervent US right wing seems to care.
The protesters have been accused of waving confederate and swastika flags in order to frame them as a right-wing group. However, I see mostly Canada flags in this 4K video of the epicenter of the protest. I have yet to find the first confederate or swastika flag in there.
For what its worth, the person photographing the guy with a flag looked like a guy from Trudeau's own photographer entourage. There's a good chance this thing was staged.
No, but he is falling on his own sword repeatedly in the process of dealing with them. Both the truckers and Trudeau’s handling of them are mostly unpopular.
It's remarkable to see the focus pushed onto Trudeau as the person that is failing to act when the leader most directly responsible for resolving this situation is the Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford.
When you have protests it would be a bizarre overreaction to skip straight to sending in the military. You send in the police.
The Ottawa police have failed to act, and the Ontario Provincial Police hasn't been there as any sort of back up to help. Doug has been absent. What on earth is going on?
One of the riches man in the world claims he provides leadership training for politicians and has gained influence and political alignment through it.
And is know for large donations to his selected preferred group of these politicians.
Its kind of like claiming Harvard has influence on lawyers through its law program. Totally unbelievable I know right.
I was referencing more the 'Marxist agenda' reference, considering that Trudeau is from mild wealth and everything Trudeau and the Liberals have done is oriented around maintaining the status quo and protecting the exclusivity and privileges of the wealthy class.
Some on Twitter and Reddit are on full outrage mode because of the Police timid response. They think police are taking the protestors side.
So calls to defund the police, even calls for US to intervene. (literally treason to invite foreign troops into Canada to put down a Canadian protest)
This thing is great at exposing the authoritarian mindset of some people. 3rd year of emergency measures, when government gets called out on it. Their response is to double down and impose even more emergency measures.
I don't understand the mechanics of this protest. One big tow truck could move all the trucks out of the way, disabled brakes and flat tires or not, in a few hours and clear the roads. The city/government can't find a few tow trucks? Are the Canadian police actively supporting the protesters by not bringing in a tow truck? Couldn't the national guard equivalent make short work of this? Seems like the road blocks could have been ended a week ago, even if the protests continued.
The tow trucking companies are either supporting the protest, those who don't are found out and harassed into inaction.
Also, most tow companies make the bulk of their revenue by towing large vehicles, so potentially antagonizing the truckers and ending up on some kind of unofficial towing blacklist would hurt them to a point where they'd rather not do anything.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 84.6 ms ] threadThe attitude that seems to prevail here (which I take no position on) seems to be roughly: “it’s time for vulnerable people to segregate”.
Personally I’m both vaccinated and recovered from Delta, and I don’t go maskless anywhere that there isn’t already an unmasked crowd because while I’m not a virologist I don’t like making people uncomfortable needlessly.
But I do think that we probably need a better answer than shouting down a high double digit percentage of the population who have to one degree or another reached their limit on an unbounded state of emergency running into its third year.
They are feeling uncomfortable needlessly. It's not incumbent on us to indulge in peoples fear or neuroses. Anyone who wants to keep being theatrical about covid is welcome, but it makes no sense to force the rest of us to participate in their play
Respect for the constitution and the senate first and foremost implies that you follow lawfully passed legislation instead of throwing a tantrum, otherwise there's little point in having those institutions in the first place.
No-one outside of the fervent US right wing seems to care.
This is as much about 'truckers' as 'joe the plumber' was about plumbers...
There's a minority government in Canada.. remaining in office requires the support of an opposition party.
There's continuous work to paint the political situation as incredibly fragile and mandates as highly divisive. Reality shows otherwise - we'd be talking about an election if this was an actual problem politically, and an election simply isn't in the cards.
Vaccination rate doesn't relate much to mandates support.
>Reality shows otherwise - we'd be talking about an election if this was an actual problem politically, and an election simply isn't in the cards.
Canada very rarely triggers elections mid-term. Plus, the fact that the government is a minority already indicates people are not aligned with the elected government.
Vaccinated people can be against or even negatively affected by vaccine mandates too.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be in a position to be able to stand up against the mandates. A lot of people are opposed to the mandates and didn't want the vaccine, but ended up being forced to give in and take it anyway.
Then Biden called. Something about factory closures.
Then Trudeau made a statement threatening the protesters and the cops moved in at the big border crossing.
So I conclude that Biden cares.
He also caught Covid from one of his kids.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/service...
1. The absolute risk reduction is something like 1%. And that was before Omnicron.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5...
2. The average age of someone that dies from Covid is 82+ with multiple co-morbities.
3. You can calculate your risk here. https://qcovid.org/
4. Based on the Data for Ontario. The vaccinated and unvaccinated are getting infected at the near the same rate. Vaccinated cases were higher for the past month before dropping recently.https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=1 (3rd graph shows the case rate)
No one I know would take 10 doses of these vaccines. Canadians are pretty passive people. But at third dose the country is near rebellion. Good luck, thinking this will succeed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121497/
...
It is customary yet inappropriate to compare vaccine efficacies and make policy decisions solely on relative risk reduction (RRR) from clinical trials with different protocols in populations with different background risks for COVID-19—unless vaccines were tested within a common trial as advocated by WHO.[3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121497//#bib3)
RRR focusses on those who benefit from the vaccine and, although more stable across event rates (levels of risk for COVID-19), its interpretation requires knowing the actual background risk and its variability. Absolute risk reduction (ARR) considers all individuals and translates conveniently into number needed to vaccinate within a population with a given risk,[3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8121497//#bib3) but its public health significance varies with the risk. For any given RRR, ARR is higher when event rates are higher—eg, earlier into a vaccination programme, or in high-risk groups—and decreases as risks decline.
Both ARR and RRR are helpful to assess trade-offs between benefits and harm, because evidence is still limited on whether or how they change across the range of individual responses and risks related to age, comorbidities, behaviours, and level of exposure, as well as over time—with risk of COVID-19 decreasing with vaccination scale-up or altering due to virus variants.
...
An absolute risk reduction of 1% on something with let's say a 1.2% mortality rate takes away 83% of your risk.
If your unvaxed risk is 1/30,000, then your vaxed risk is 1/150,000 just because of that 1% absolute change.
What I said was that being vaxed drastically lowers your risk. You said "that's just not true" and you followed up by saying your risk was already low, and the only difference is 1% absolute. But the 1% absolute is enormous when you look at the fact that the absolute risk is only slightly over 1% for the general population to start with.
660 million doses for 83 million people. 400 million left with unclear plans how to use them. That's a safety buffer of about 160% if you assume three full doses for everyone, including babies. Only 16% have been donated to other countries.
https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/report-mainz/impfdose...
The protesters have been accused of waving confederate and swastika flags in order to frame them as a right-wing group. However, I see mostly Canada flags in this 4K video of the epicenter of the protest. I have yet to find the first confederate or swastika flag in there.
https://youtu.be/nFBGlhS4xBY
I have difficulties to believe Trudeau.
When you have protests it would be a bizarre overreaction to skip straight to sending in the military. You send in the police.
The Ottawa police have failed to act, and the Ontario Provincial Police hasn't been there as any sort of back up to help. Doug has been absent. What on earth is going on?
"Schwab has publicly bragged that he has “penetrated” cabinets around the world to force his economic philosophies upon the people"
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/wef/schwab-adm...
One of the riches man in the world claims he provides leadership training for politicians and has gained influence and political alignment through it. And is know for large donations to his selected preferred group of these politicians.
Its kind of like claiming Harvard has influence on lawyers through its law program. Totally unbelievable I know right.
Also, most tow companies make the bulk of their revenue by towing large vehicles, so potentially antagonizing the truckers and ending up on some kind of unofficial towing blacklist would hurt them to a point where they'd rather not do anything.