There you go. Never buy the first edition of a new product innovation or technology. It is guaranteed to end in disappointment and they are essentially beta testing.
Better to wait for it to mature first in newer versions than to jump into the hype squad and leave disappointed.
>There you go. Never buy the first edition of a new product innovation or technology.
But the model number mentioned in the post resolves to "Samsung Galaxy Z Flip3 5G" which sounds not "first edition"? According to wikipedia samsung's first foldable phone came out in 2019.
What a ridiculous notion. The device costs over a thousand fucking euros! Samsung doesn't sell it with a warning that says "this device is for early adopters and won't be repaired should it fail due to a manufacturing defect." Any decent company would fix it, full stop.
There's plenty of times in Apples history where looking cool has won out over practical concerns. People have more money than sense and will happily ignore that they could buy a rock solid (literally) feature phone for <50 dollars, if in doing the opposite they can look trendy.
> There's plenty of times in Apples history where looking cool has won out over practical concerns.
I'm not even sure "looking cool" was a factor in some of the worst ones. "Winning industrial design awards for being thinner than possible" stands out to me. In pursuit of that, they had four years worth of laptop keyboards that didn't work long term, and got rid of the most amazing feature ever for laptop charging (MagSafe), to thin things out further with USB-C. Not a bad connector, but definitely a bad charging connector compared to MagSafe for people with kids, pets, etc.
I'm glad they've gone back to a laptop that seems to work, but... I've lost interest.
Assuming you want a feature phone because you want something small that isn’t going to monopolize your attention, the Nokia 6300 4G probably fits the bill.
Eh yes and no. I’m a firm member of the function over form camp.
I’ve had Androïd for a decade after Apple forced an update to the iPhone 3G that made it so slow you couldn’t even dial a number anymore.
But a couple years ago, I bought a used iPhone 6s because I got tired of the Androïd flakiness and lack of quality in general. All my trust in google also eroded over time.
I don’t regret jumping ships again. The iPhone works well, I can still block all ads (except in the YouTube app) using nextdns.io, my 6 years old iPhone still gets updates and runs well. The only thing I miss is newpipe but the trade off was worth it.
The 50$ China androids you mention are riddled with spyware and provide few or no updates once the phone has been released. Then you have to deal with alternative roms if they exist which means you’re spending more time making your phone work that actually being able to use it normally.
Not saying it can appeal to some but it’s not for everyone if you want something that just works and is affordable.
I paid 200$ for my used iPhone 2 years ago and I’m keeping it until they stop proving iOS updates AND then new features in the new iOS would actually be useful to me.
I replaced the battery myself last year (cost 10$ + the ifixit tool set for 70$ which I’ve used many times to fix other things). It’s not quite 50$ but it’s not 1000$ either.
Edit: not talking about MacBooks. This is a completely different story with brain dead decisions to look good even if it fails constantly (their shitty keyboards of the last 4–5 years) or refusing to even acknowledge let alone fix serious issues (like that MacBook with the gpu desoldering itself and failing in groves while apple was saying lalalalala and ignoring the problem for YEARS. I won’t ever buy a MacBook, they’re not good value and I don’t trust Apple to make good decisions about them or own up their mistakes with them. Plus they cost multiples more than a decent used laptop or workstation on which you can run Linux and upgrade components whenever needed so it can last you 5–10 years.
Samsung can not just opt out of German warranty law by printing stuff on the box. They are required to prove the customer is at fault if a fault occurs within the fist six months after purchase, but I see no proof of wrong usage by the customer here.
I believe that is a cross EU thing, since the UK got it while still a member.
i.e. the reversed burden of proof during the first 6 months, where it is assumed the device is at fault, and they supplier has to prove it is not.
So in this case I'd agree, I see little proof just an assertion, and would suggest they institute the process for their equivalent of a Small Claims Court case.
Well yeah. Buying something early is the most expensive time to buy it. The inefficiencies haven't been worked out of the manufacturing process yet, and there's not an established wide customer base to spread the R&D over yet.
Radios in the 1920s cost over 100 hours of wages for a lot of people. TVs in the 50s were stupid expensive. Computers in the early 60s were literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. And all of these things were pretty garbage compared to what you think of today. Hell, the computer from the early 60s could probably lose a math race to a seasoned abacus veteran.
In exchange for the high risk and high payment, you get to play with something that might be cool, and you get bragging rights (depending on your personality type, one of these might excite you more than the other).
> Any decent company would fix it, full stop.
Well, probably. I'm not going to defend samsung here. They're acting pretty garbage.
But the point about new tech being risky, is entirely fair. If something's still exciting, it's probably a good idea for the risk-averse to avoid it.
The point wasn't that it was expensive. The author happily paid the expense. They claim to even be happy to suffer the annoyance of downtime and repair even though they didn't abuse the device. Those are the only 2 things an early adopter is obligated to asorb.
The point was that it was all 4 together of: expensive, immature, unsupported, and not sold as unsupported.
It was sold with a standard warranty like any product, yet in reality they just deny the claim no matter how valid.
The expense only means that's why you care, that they take your money which did not break on them a few weeks later, and don't honor their promises.
It's the true in everything, gen 1 version of cars, fridges, you name it.
I try to get gen 2 or later after a new revision.
I made an exception with my current car because all the electronics are new which to be frank are probably the biggest risk, but Isuzu engines, drive trains and gear boxes have barely changed in 10+ years. And they're the parts I'm more worried about and the 6 year warranty covers everything else.
But as you said, the same reliability can never be expected in consumables like computers, phones and the like.
> But the point about new tech being risky, is entirely fair. If something's still exciting, it's probably a good idea for the risk-averse to avoid it.
Seems like you're saying a person who bought a thousand euro phone and couldn't get it repaired under warranty after a month of mild use is "risk-averse" if they dislike that experience.
Would a truly non-risk-averse person be overjoyed by this experience or see no problem with it? Would they accept it as the price they pay for being an early adopter and see no reason to complain? I'm confused.
> Seems like you're saying a person who bought a thousand euro phone and couldn't get it repaired under warranty after a month of mild use is "risk-averse" if they dislike that experience.
I'm saying that a person who is risk-averse should probably avoid this. There aren't very many third party repair places yet, so you're completely at the mercy of a single company.
There's also an increased risk if said company is based outside your country (or supra-national political union, should you live in one). It's harder for a country to force a company in another jurisdiction into compliance.
If you're going to make this critique, you should grapple with this passage from the article:
> As with any new technology it takes time to iron out early problems. Things break, need to be fixed, improved etc. That’s all fine! I wasn’t angry when the phone broke, I was angry when it wasn’t repaired.
I think the critique and the passage go hand in hand: if Samsung repaired the break for free, they would be the ones bearing the risk of the new technology. Because they didn't, they're making the customer bear the risk.
That the phone might break is inherent in the fact that it's a new technology. The question is who pays for it when it does, the customer or the manufacturer.
I was an early adopter of a Chumby (damn I loved that thing). The risk I took was that they would go out of business and no longer support the eco system - that risk proved real.
I can accept taking a risk and it not working out, this is taking one risk and having the company try and pin other risks on you.
Blaming the customer for your weak ass product is not the early-adopter risk, its the caveat emptor / screw you risk. I reject the idea that early adopter means accepting bad quality.
I recently had an issue with my car (A volvo for what it matters) with some painted plastic pealing. It was the first model year, I wasn't surprised, things need to get worked out...the early adopter risk is from them working things out. I took it in and they initially rejected the warranty claim and blamed me. I offered to have a paint chemist friend look at it and do an analysis - that changed their tune quickly. The early adopter risk I took was to my time that there might be some manufacturing quirks...not to them being sleazy about standing by their products.
No, being an early adopter is dealing with issues like the seam being noticeable, or the lifetime of the hinge mechanism maybe being underspecified, not a manufacturer shirking a warranty repair 3 months after the device was purchased.
I am truly, deeply, unsurprised that foldable phones fail along the seam.
I know that's not the point of the post, and I'm not blaming the author. It just seems like such a ridiculous concept in the first place. My old flip phone had its own problems, and there wasn't even a display along the seam.
I don't get the point of this design either, unless it's to show off deliberate planned obolescence. Two regular screens with ultra-narrow bezels on the butt edge would achieve the same effect, without the constantly stressed folding bit. I have some old (almost 10 years old now) smartphone LCDs and the pixels go right up to the edge of the glass itself.
Some, possibly many of the people who bought these phones were totally willing beta-testers. Some people are just excited about a new piece of technology and have the means to drop upwards of $1500 on it just for kicks.
This reasoning implies that it's the continuity of a single screen which makes that device capable of being folded inwards.
This is in fact completely backward: a continuous deformable surface has all the problems of two exactly adjacent but discontinuous surfaces, with the additional problem of providing relief for the fold.
Apple has developed it's own silicon and the chips powering iPhones, iPads and Macs are now the same. They come up with new and interesting manufacturing processes, or supply chain management. Their phones have lidar now. But you know what I've hear for years even from developer friends? "Apple can no longer innovate."
Samsung comes up with a folding screen of dubious quality or changes the shape of the phone and people love it. Internally it's just another Qualcomm or Exynos or whatever. But then what isn't besides Apple? Seems reasonable to try and carve out their segment of the Android market and I think they are largely successful. I know people who will specifically buy Samsung even when you can get similar specced phones for cheaper.
>even from developer friends? "Apple can no longer innovate."
You could consider getting new friends who are more intelligent. Some people are being fooled by the fact that a rectangle shape is staying consistent year after year, a very surface attribute. Apple does deep work. People who think only the surface matters are missing the story.
Sure, parasitism works pretty well in fact. I just couldn’t stomach promoting it by using one of their gimmick-festooned phones. But plenty of people don’t give a shit.
I love the idea of explaining a company's process as "deep work"! To me it resonates re Apple and I'm now intrigued on who else falls into that category.
For some reason Google does not seem to fit, possibly because of Xoogler anecdotes I've read here. GitHub seems close but maybe too scattered in many directions (for example, they seem to have some new huge feature in beta every other week). Airbnb does deep work from what I've seen (I attended an internal hackathon once). I wonder if that's not one of the strengths of YC and YC-picks, inherently...
Like, a lot of people? I don't know anyone who's even been intrigued enough to buy it, and an overwhelming majority of feedback I hear online is negative.
The point is that it has a smaller footprint. While I think the flip is slightly dubious in utility the fold has undeniable utility in being able to fold. You gain a tablet sized screen that fits inside most pockets. I personally find that extremely compelling. Two screens doesn't achieve the same effect because it's two screens. Unless there's no bezel or physical gap (that you are going to feel any time you're using the device) then you can't utilize the size of the screen to its fullest potential. Microsoft's Duo phone does use two screens but it defeats the point of having one massive screen.
Yeah but that's not nearly as bad as a fully disconnected seam between two separate screens, unless you also imagine using the same plastic surface across them or something.
But really, we should just look at Microsoft's Duo and see the reality of a two screen device.
What happens if one tiny piece of grit gets in-between the two screens at the visually seamless butt edge? It then gets leveled as they click into place and cracks one doesn't it?
I would be more excited about the idea if both the folded and unfolded modes actually had desirable aspect ratios. The current fold's "front" screen in closed mode is this weird super narrow display that will be yet another nightmare for web and app developers to adjust for, and the full unfolded screen has a close to 4:3 ratio which doesn't suit any media other than possibly GameCube games
If they made the screen as easy to replace as possible, treat them as consumable like removable battery, and sell the replacement at reasonable cost, it might actually works. Swapping a foldable screen once a year at $50 on a >$1000 phone is reasonable expense IMO.
those screens are the most expensive part, on top of that replacing them is hard due to technology that makes them good(good enough?), you make them easily replaceable and it will make them less desirable by the customer.
It is the most expensive part, yes, but even so, the BoM price for that flexible screen might still be cheap enough to be passed on to customer. They'll need to be creative on how to make that part as easy to replace as possible with as few material and complexity as possible, maybe like applying a piece of screen protector and slotting the edge into a slot like those thin flex wires.
The only way a foldable phone would makes any sense to me is if it's actually two fully functional perforated phones that you can tear apart and use independently, in case one of them fails, or you need to lend a phone to somebody else.
Maybe they could sell big roles of perforated phones, so you can just tear a new phone off the end each time you need one, like toilet paper.
According to the article, it wasn't in a case for the first month, but more importantly, the magnitude of the damage is what makes the Samsung assessment remarkably suspect. Certainly seems like a really bad experience with Samsung.
I can feel my blood boiling for you. In fact I'm in the market for a new phone and stories like this make me actively want to avoid Samsung. As companies get larger and larger they will tend to make choices that are suboptimal to consumers.
Cynical me says that Samsung is seeing above average warranty claims on these foldable phones. Thus they need to get them down so some manager somewhere decides that they will enforce the policies more strictly with small scratches and dents outright disqualifying claims. Lo and behold this reduces the warranty claims paid out but in the grand scheme of things completely demolishes any customer loyalty.
I wonder if author reached out via twitter or some other social media channel to have Samsung comment.
Also I have to think what Apple or Google would do. I'm pretty sure Apple would just straight up repair the phone with very few questions (that has been my experience). Google you'd have to go through a longer warranty process but my guess is they'd be more lenient and eventually you'd get a new or repaired phone.
As companies get larger, they tend to make choices that benefit individuals within the company, at the expense of the company at large.
Somebody was told to invent a new type of phone, something that will "wow" people. That's the flip phone.
Somebody was told that the warranty claims were coming in too fast, and need to be reduced.
Same reason people at Google keep launching new products. It doesn't make Google look good, it doesn't achieve Google's goals, it makes L5s promotable to L6s.
You can't quantify customer loyalty like you can quantify warranty claims so you can burn the former to improve the latter, maybe even get a promotion for doing so, then move on and let someone else deal with the long term consequences.
It's sad but I've accepted that this is how most companies are today.
One way to avoid getting burned is to only buy what you actually need when you actually need it.
>I'm pretty sure Apple would just straight up repair the phone with very few questions
You were lucky, the reality is that sometimes Apple pretens an issue does not exist and only after a big action lawsuit is started they suddenly they become generous and offer to fix the problem. So the first people that had a bad experience before the lawsuits are in much smaller number and their experience is crushed by the rest that praise Apple for the generosity of fixing their mistakes after they are forced by external stuff.
You must not be a Google phone user, or if you are: you got lucky. I owned 4 Google phones and only the original metal-case-with-trackball Nexus 1 lasted over 18 months. It’s the only phone that I replaced due to obsolescence.
The one I managed to get repaired under warranty (Nexus 5 bootlooping death) lasted 1 week before dying the exact same way again. It look 2 weeks just to get it repaired.
I switched to iPhone. I can’t remember what number even though I’m typing on it because it doesn’t matter. It works as well today as the day I bought it. (Although I do miss Google’s keyboard)
I was just about to comment and say I was wondering the same thing because I am daily driving a Pixel 2 still, but may look to buy soon because of the flagging battery life and the lack of security updates. I was not aware Google Phone's had a reputation for aging off quickly since my brother is also in the same boat as me with his Pixel, is there someone who tracks phone reliability?
I also have a Pixel 2, which is still running fine except for battery life. I really like the dedicated fingerprint sensor on the back. It's been such a great feature that I'm shocked it's been dropped or replaced with in-display sensors in the newer models. IMHO, it beats Face ID which requires you to look at the device from the right angle.
Very similar to me, I went nexus 5 > 5x > pixel > pixel 2 after the 5/5x/p1 broke in different ways, but the Pixel 2 I used until it ran out of support and I was annoyed at having to replace a phone so quickly because it was fine for me, so I switched to a second hand iphone XS and it still works fine even though it's only 1 year older.
I doubt I'll ever buy an iPhone brand new (I go out of my way not to support the CCP) but until Pinephone and linux becomes a usable mobile OS I'll stick with the XS until it either dies or Apple stop supporting it in:
I have a Samsung galaxy S4 mini from 2014. I am going to need to replace it only because 1) 3G is disappearing, 2) youtube decided my phone was too old. There's nothing actually wrong with the phone.
It is not as good as it is on Android. I still have an iPhone, but this is the top thing that makes me consider switching back to Android. I will still probably buy another iPhone because of all the other good things about it. Still, I miss the Android keyboard choices.
I was using Nexus 6 from 2014 in 2019. And honestly I would continue using it if its battery wasn't in abysmal state leading to throttling. Considered buying new old stock or trying to replace a battery in this one. N6 is a 32-bit only device, that's the primary (the only?) reason I switched to something else, it would limit software choice going forward.
FWIW my Pixel 4 is still going strong, haven't even thought of getting a replacement. My partner is on the previous Pixel 3 (released October 2018) and no complaints there either.
Which phone are you buying that lasts more? After two years the battery life nose dives, flash memory becomes slower, software updates become scarce. And by that time I usually have a broken screen.
Good thing I only spend 200€ every two years on the latest trustworthy moto g. Clean google experience, no bloatware, nice gesture actions.
A 1k€ phone would have to last 10 years to give comparable value, and I doubt it exists since battery and flash memory tech is the same no matter the price.
I've had a Samsung S8 for 4.5 years now, and it is still okay.
Yeah it shows that it is old. The battery and performance is worse than before, but it still lasts the day as I am not using it that hard. I have no legitimate _need_ to upgrade as it stands today.
I guess the frequency of upgrades quite heavily on usage, but I find upgrading every 2 years to be very often.
I believe the more you spend on a phone the more you're inclined to endure the performance degradation. With a cheap phone it's easier to let it go and buy a new one, so you always have a new, fast and updated device
I’m on an iPhone 8 here, works just as well as when it was new ~4.5 years ago. Battery may be at around 80% capacity (as experienced by me), received an iOS update a couple of days ago.
Edit to add: replaced a slim silicone cover once or twice, hardened glass screen protector 3 or 4 times.
I remember fondly when I had an iPod, the one time I had an issue with it (can’t remember what, honestly), I just walked into an apple store and probably 5-10 minutes later walked out with a new device, free of charge, no questions asked (after they tried resetting it once)
I’m sure someone in these companies has made a spreadsheet that shows permissive repair and replacement policies cost $X million a year, but it probably doesn’t take into account that the experience with the iPod directly led to me purchasing multiple iPhones and Macs.
Similar experience with the airpods. They stopped pairing right. Walked in to the store, they ran through some basic tests, plugged their diagnostics tool in, then handed over a new pair and it was done all on the same day.
I used to abuse new iPhones, and before the warranty ran out claim that the battery life was not up to scratch. They always replaced my phone. Once I got a new phone when the damage was clearly my fault but I played dumb anyway.
I’d imagine someone decides either based on the results of the tests not aligning with expectations (in which case —- cool), or because they’d rather not come out to a customer with a hard ‘no’ on a replacement, and essentially comp it as a courtesy. I wonder if in your case it’s simply been the latter.
Retail is hard. Perhaps less hard for Apple, but I wonder to what extent the retail store employees end up paying for stuff like this.
In a previous life I worked at a Sears. Back when that was a thing.
I was in lawn and garden during springtime. People would come in and buy a fully loaded top of the line lawn tractor. A week later it would be back, covered in mud and grass clippings, clearly having been through hell. Inevitably they were not happy with it. Probably because their pasture was now mowed.
I moved to electronics in the winter. Same story around the Super Bowl but this time big screen TVs.
It was easy to tell. Customers who just went straight to the big ticket item without any questions were obviously not interested in a long term purchase. But we just ate it.
The shitty thing was I got paid commission. Those returns got clawed back in my next paycheck.
I think Apple at least has the decency to pay their retail employees hourly.
I've been on the other side: Dealing with returns and warranty claims at scale, albeit at a much larger company.
You're not alone. A lot of people will invest a lot of time into lying, playing dumb, making threats (think people with a lot of Twitter followers threatening to broadcast how terrible your company is unless you give them exactly what they want) and other manipulative tactics to abuse warranty claims.
Ultimately this is why we had to become more strict about warranty claims. When half of your warranty claims are coming from people angling for free upgrades or demanding full-price refunds after many years of service (some of whom tried to demand to keep the hardware and get a refund), you quickly become numb to it. I guess companies like Apple can absorb the lies for a while, but eventually you have to make a choice between padding your margins to cater to the warranty abusers or becoming more strict on warranty claims.
The author's point is that he was careful and the request for warranty repair was not some abuse attempt. Of course deceitful demands for warranty should be declined.
Even Apple will not honor warranties in cases of obvious abuse and lies.
Apple understands something many retailers have lost. The way you deal with the customer when they’re not happy turns you into a lifetime customer. And if it doesn’t it’s a small price to pay.
Costco, Nordstrom, Marine Layer, etc.
To me this is a winning strategy. Even if it’s 1 in 5 or less.
If that one warranty-abusing user convinces 2-3 others to buy the same product and they don't abuse the warranty, the company is still making more money.
It comes down to margin. In a commodity business like Android phones or TVs the margins are razor thin. With a 10% profit margin you’d need to convince 10 other buyers just to break even on one fraudulent replacement. The real difference is Apple has some of the best profit margins in the industry.
Yeah I remember one customer with multiple destroyed tv's (spilled beer or other moisture damage, panels had rust) getting them repaired on samsungs dime because they ware "the voice of the customer".
It was annoying, but we did bill samsung for all the work. :)
The blogs author might also like the fact that samsung owns their warranty repair infrastructure, they don't contract it out.
So less repairs means more profit. While contractors repair everything that is not obviously deliberate.
...and that's why companies that don't have Apple's generous profit margins have to be extra careful with their return policies. Or, more generally: this is why we can't have nice things.
Over time, Apple got strict about replacing their Lightning charging cable and wired EarPods (headphones). They would regularly wear out for me.
In earlier iPhone generations, they would replace your EarPod headphones without a hassle (or wait). Later on (as Apple got more popular and Apple store genius bar lines grew longer), you had to make a reservation and they would only consider replacing it after checking the cable's (discrete) serial number.
Sounds like another reason why they pushed to get rid of cables and ports, risk of damage and warranty claims. I mean it's a win-win for them because Apple devices get a reputation for being reliable then (which is counteracted by things like butterfly keyboards). I mean wireless charging is a solution for a problem many people run into, dust / lint buildup in the charging port.
Gosh. I hate Apple’s right to repair BS, but to this day Apple remains the only consumer electronics company that has provided a consistently positive technical support experience for me.
It’s so hard to step out the Apple ecosystem when these other manufacturers have consistently screwed me over with repairs.
I’m specifically calling out Dell, Samsung and LG here. All were utterly terrible experiences.
Dell was the absolute worst though. They sold me a $1,700+ XPS notebook that months later had a non-functional trackpad, and they refused to do anything to rectify the situation. With an investment that large I need certainty that I can get support, and thus far Apple is the only PC OEM that has provided that.
If anyone can suggest non-Apple OEMs that at least provide a competitive support experience, I’m all ears.
An alternative to have a company fix your expensive gadget is to do it yourself. I think about the Framework laptop. In your situation even if the company declined payment (then I wold be disappointed), I would have sucked it up and ordered a new trackpad and installed it myself. It's not the same but at least the consequences would not be so distastrous.
How does the battery life compare to my M1 MacBook Air? How does the performance compare to my Air? How bad is the fan noise compared to my fanless Air?
Framework shipped their first product in 2021. Let's give them a bit before comparing them to an extremely matured product from one of the richest companies ever. If they survive long enough to make a version 5.0, it'll probably still be worse than the MacBook due to the lower level of integration, but modularity is a definite perk.
It’ll still be a worse computer in every way but it will have modularity.
Or
“Other than that, how was the play Ms. Lincoln”
Have you ever thought Apple got to be the richest company in the world from almost being bankrupt a little over 20 years ago by not shipping sub par hardware?
Personally I don't care what it sounds like, so long as it can work under load, and my Macbook Pro can't. It throttles when ambient temperature is over 25 degrees C, and
I haven't unplugged my Macbook Pro more than a couple times in the last 2 years.
In short, I'd take a two inch thick Clevo that sounds like a 747 and only lasts for 2 hours if it meant not having to worry about turning my HVAC on when I want to do a screenshare.
Im a software engineer, the last thing I want to do is take days waiting for X part to arrive, then spend hours figuring out how to remove/install X part without breaking my machine worse.
If I wanted to tinker, I'd buy a Raspbery PI. I want to get work done while giving as little thought as possible to the hardware I'm using to facilitate the work.
Lenovo. With whatever level of support you want to pay for.
If speed and downtime and hands-off are the most important features that trump all others, then this whole post about the cost of a bad warranty policy wasn't for you in the first place.
You don't have time for warrantys!
You just pull out the spare laptop you got at the same time as the one that broke, or your old one wich is only 1 year old and still more than good enough to work on while the new one is down. Or you just immediately go down to Staples or BestBuy or Microcenter and buy a new one.
Apple is not a magic better option where you can have your cake and eat it too. They routinely deny warranty or even reasonable paid repair for things they shipped defective. I have several unfortunate friends with laptops and all-in-ones over the years with dead video cards that Apple refused to repair, and they are not self repairable because even for the desktop model the video card is non-standard so you can't just replace it, and thanks to Apple's unique actions wrt getting the government to seize things at the border, no one else is even allowed to make a replacement either. And those keyboards...they stopped making them, yet did they ever make good on all those people they sold those models to? Apple routinely, routinely, absolutely screws over people who believed the marketing about how great the support is. That high premium you pay for the device goes to sending high paid lawyers to every small town to make sure they win in court against petty warranty suits from ordinary individuals.
They spend $10k just make sure that a warranty for a $50 part does not win in court. That is not better than the article's terrible Samsung experience.
Eh. The reason I buy Apple is I just know the thing will work, and if it doesn't, I can take it down the street to the Apple store and have it replaced.
It's not that I don't like to tinker, I love tinkering with things. But things like my primary phone or primary computer I need to "just work", and I need them to work all the time with minimal downtime.
At least for me, Apple's selling point of "just let us take care of it" is very appealing, I'm already dealing with a ton of things every day, I don't need to add "fixing my phone" to that list.
> months later had a non-functional trackpad, and they refused to do anything to rectify the situation
How is that not covered by the standard, mandated 1-year warranty? Did they pull the same BS described in the article?
Apple is no saint for this kind of stuff either though, I still remember the red humidity marker in the headphone jack that denied repairs to many people because of “water damage” (which was actually just sweat, probably)
> I hate Apple’s right to repair BS
It seems they've concluded it's unavoidable and announced their program for selling parts, tools and providing repair manuals to anyone interested.
And for me Dell is the OEM I trust the most as if something goes wrong with my XPS laptop Dell will happily spend the cost of the laptop just to get someone here by tomorrow to fix it.
Nobody else I know of stands behind their laptops like that. If a company by default bets money on their own products then that's reassuring. Is the product any good? Prove it, like Dell.
Not that XPS laptops don't fail, cause they do, but at least it's rare enough that Dell is willing to spend large amounts on on-site next business day repair.
> If anyone can suggest non-Apple OEMs that at least provide a competitive support experience, I’m all ears.
Here in Norway it used to be (at least with HP) that if you bought the professional line you'd get professional service.
I had a personal nc6320 bought some 17 years ago and they would literally come to my desk and replace the monitor free of charge. (No, I didn't have a paid support plan, this was included in the purchase price and I had bought it myself, not through a company.)
Around the same time, trying to get a consumer grade HP repaired was just painful.
Good observation, but then wouldn't they also want to broadcast this?
I was totally surprised when I called them and they asked me to call business support and business support just asked where they could find me and when I wanted them to be there. I can't remember a single clue pointing in this direction before I called customer support for home computers.
(Then again: I should stop getting surprised by companies that waste fantastic marketing opportunities.)
But to be honest I agree with people having mixed experiences, like for me Apple has been awful, a macbook of just few months was not fixed because I allegedly caused the issue (I had horizontal lines on the display, that happened by itself just while I was watching a 4k movie), so I kinda have adopted the policy that I don't buy anything unless it's extremely needed, so like I have had a oneplus for few years now (since it came out?) and have some bluetooth issues, every now and then I just go on some ecommerce website to try to scroll around for smartphones but to be honest after a while I just leave because I start thinking about customer service specifically, if I have to spend money but then I have to factor in the price the time to solve issues, to be ignored by customer service, to see like all the hidden and minuscule written points in the terms of service that are there just to make you regret buying something, I just get demotivated and think that it's probably better to think about keeping the bluetooth issue rather than be frustrated after having spent a sum of money to have new issues, I am not sure vendors care, but sometimes I feel like that they as a whole are just alienating customers
Lenovo delivered a replacement charger for my entry-level ThinkPad really fast (it was the next day I believe). And for free, after a couple of questions on the phone.
The math here depends on the retail presence and the margins that Apple already has. You don't want to be without your phone or laptop for even one day if you can avoid it. This customer experience doesn't happen without you being able to get to an apple store.
I took my unbootable mac mini under warranty , they repaired it without any charge. 2 months later same issue but warranty was finished. Repair estimate was half of the device price!(In India). This was not the first device whose repair cost so much. Really Apple devices are very good as long as you have warranty. If not for iOS development, i would not be buying it.
After several years of use, I wanted a battery replacement for my 1st-gen Retina Macbook Pro, so I brought it to the Apple Store. The device was old, but still supported, though far outside even the Apple Care window.
I was told they they should normally be able to do this replacement, but they didn't have replacement batteries available. After mentioning I could just leave the device with them until the stock became available, they went off into the back for a few minutes.
When they returned, they said they would accept my years old Macbook as a return for its original purchase price and I walked out with a brand new Macbook Pro essentially for the cost of the tax.
I cannot imagine getting this service from any other computer vendor.
I'd be curious to see if they voluntarily bootstrap brand love through these wonderful (really) tactics only to gradually remove the rate of free swaps. I have heard a few stories of "we can't fix nor replace that device, but you can buy a new one for 10$ less than market price".
Youtubers and tech sites get devices for free, play with them for a week and give rave reviews. The rest of us have to live with the device for years worth of wear and tear. What could possibly go wrong with bendy screens?
They are an indirect promotional arm. YT phone "reviews" are as useful as a video game "review". They are well-timed promotional content, and they generally can't say anything truly bad or else they jeopardize early access to demo units.
We're not buying Samsung devices again for a completely different reason.
We got a home remodel, with Samsung appliances because they looked decent and were priced reasonably enough for what we wanted. Mainly, a Samsung Refrigerator, Microwave, Stove and Dishwasher. Around the same time we also bought a Galaxy Note9 smartphone.
2 years later, only the Refrigerator and Microwave have survived. The Dishwasher broke after a year, and was replaced with a new Samsung which also broke in a year, and we replaced it with Bosch. The Stove's burners just stopped working and couldn't be fixed by the repairman, so that was replaced (with a non-Samsung one).
As for the surviving appliances, Samsung had the ingenuity to build the Microwave's control electronics inside the microwave door, the thing most likely to get slammed, so we're babying the microwave or otherwise that would have almost certainly died from that idiotic decision. Even though the refrigerator is still standing, the "stainless steel" is apparently so thin it's covered in dents from when children left drawers open next to it, something stainless steel should be resistant to.
Lastly, the Note9 after a year became slower than a snail crawling up a rock (crashed constantly opening even basic apps like Outlook) and no battery replacement or factory reset could revive it. Also began dropping calls randomly and constantly, and apparently it was a botched firmware update that randomly affected people with absolutely no fix. Replaced with iPhone 13 Pro.
We have a Samsung fridge and the ice maker has a major unfixable design flaw (gets jammed with ice). One of the cables in the fridge also has a known design flaw.
I guess we should be lucky our stuff isn’t catching on fire like most Samsung products do (at least when they are not supposed to be).
That makes me wonder if the Koreans living in Korea itself have the same experience with Samsung, or if its "KDM" products are built to a different standard than export ones.
It's not just Samsung though, you can run into problems with anybody. When we built our house my wife's company was doing a cross promotion with GE, so we were able to get a good discount on GE appliances and we loaded up. The dishwasher, microwave, washer, dryer, garbage disposal, and water softener are long gone. The stove has been a constant source of frustration, and the refrigerator has parts that haven't worked in years. I can assure you we will never own another GE appliance.
Foldable tablet (Fold3) is great. I can't have 8inch tablet on my pocket without folding technology. I'll never back to normal phones/tablets even if it's fragile. I don't know foldable phone (Flip3) worth to trade off durability, weight, and battery. Anyway foldable screen is early technology so insurance is mandatory IMO.
This is why I always go with Apple. I've always just walked in, yeeted my phone at them and gotten a new one. I've had four warranty issues since my original 3GS and every time the experience has been pleasant. I've also had an AirPod replaced when it no longer kept charge and was within the warranty period. The same has also applied to other family members who have had failing devices and Apple always replaces them instantly.
I recommend Apple phones to everyone in my family for the specific reason that if you have a broken Apple device, you can walk into an Apple store and get it fixed.
My mom is starting some kind of personal vendetta because her 13 month Ipad just stopped functioning. The Apple store told her it's 'fried' and she needs to just buy a new one.
Sounds like it's out of the one-year warranty period. I think warranty periods for electronics should be longer, but I would also not expect replacement or repair for out of warranty devices, unless defective.
> Also, a bad USB charger should not kill a device.
Then you've not seen bad USB chargers. Of course a device that by design is pumping voltage could ruin whatever it is connected to - especially if the connected device is sensitive equipment.
I've seen a USB charger pumping -1 to 11 volts AC out the USB connector - it was fluctuating 6 volts in either direction. Of course, you need an oscolliscope to detect that as it's at 50 hertz (C plug) - on a regular voltmeter it looked like 5 v steady.
In New Zealand, you could claim that since the manufacturer will sell a 3 year warranty that the item should last for at least that long. The Consumer Guarantees Act overrules whatever the manufacturer says and states that a device should last for a reasonable amount of time. If it is more expensive, then it should last longer. If they won't repair or replace it, you can take them to the Disputes Tribunal where they aren't allowed to send a lawyer. It generally works quite well.
My $1500 Vizio TV just died 13 months into a 12 month warranty. They don't sell parts for TVs anymore, Vizio support just told me to trash it and buy a new one. Never again Vizio.
Switched to an LG OLED TV. My brother has had the same one for 3+ years so hopefully it'll last me a while.
I've honestly never had a TV just randomly die on me before, which is why I never buy the extended warranties. But Vizio not selling parts for expensive TVs just doesn't sit well with me, hence the "never again".
If it's any consolation, I highly recommend LG due to my experience. Bought a 65 inch unit 3 years ago, threw away the box, and have since moved long distance 3 times without it. 3 times on a semi wrapped in a blanket, and the thing still works like day 1. I'm a fan.
I still remember when I bought it, I was choosing between it and a TCL. When I asked what the difference was, the guy banged on the back really hard of each. The TCL showed big white splotches when hit, the LG had no effect. He called it 'shielding', but I'm not versed enough to know if that's a thing.
Assuming it's dead dead, it's probably a power supply or fuse issue. Pop it open and get the P/N on the P/S board and it should be findable. They're often conserved between models and across model years (and sometimes manufacturers).
Maybe not available through "Them", but "their" prices are usually atrocious.
Indeed it is. I once bought a Sony phone for which Sony only offered 1 year warranty, but the store had to offer two (as per EU regulation).
The touchscreen started losing sensitivity on the edges (curved glass) after 13 months. The store made a bad decision carrying that phone model. They fixed/replaced it.
The UK has 6 (or 5 depending on part) years statutory consumer protection, and so didn't have to change anything when the EU brought in the 2 year period. I believe Ireland was in a similar position at the time.
We did end up changing stuff for the initial 6 month 'reversed burden of proof' protection
But make sure you have your 2fa backup codes! I replaced two phones in a short period of time, and overlooked the 2fa backups the second time. It’s easy to do if you’re not expecting a replacement.
That's why I've copied all of the 2FA codes from my phone to my iPad. You REALLY need some sort of redundancy to avoid a single-point-failure catastrophe.
Not sure if others noticed this, but Google Authenticator now offers a bulk export of all the codes in your app, so that you can clone them in a single step on another device. This is welcome for me at least because I was saving backup copies of the original 2FA QR codes separately, and each time a new device I would have to scan them all in one by one.
I remember when I had my first-generation iPhone and it started to feel kind of hot during usage. I took it in to the Apple Store and the genius was a bit wobbly about it and he asked another genius and he said, "just replace it" and that was it.
Who remembers Macbook's 'Staingate'[1]. I had that and was refused service multiple times. I managed to get it repaired only after it became a big issue - there were many (thousands or more) affected customers who started making noise online - then Apple grudgingly announced free repairs of the screen. I was living with damaged screen for many months.
I remember it - but Apple did, thankfully, turn around and say it was an issue, and refunded anyone who paid for repairs before the announcement.
My Samsung Galaxy Note9 literally had a firmware update go out that, looking on Samsung's forums, caused calls to drop like flies completely at random. Once you updated to that firmware, there's no going back and no hardware replacement will fix the issue. There is absolutely no fix months later, no acknowledgement there is an issue, and no fix of any kind. We had to get an iPhone because you can't run a business when you are apologizing over email daily for a missed call.
Not saying Apple is great - but Samsung has objectively worse problems.
Had a 12.5 month old iPhone 12 mini die recently and used Apple's mail in repair service ($400.) Getting technician's notes out of them (needed for a credit card extended warranty claim) has been nigh impossible after spending hours trying to get that artifact. About 2 months in at this point and they've sent plenty of stuff; none of what I've asked for. It's equivalent to dealing with the USPS on a lost package claim.
Doesn't Apple pull the exact same scam, except that instead of scratches and paint chips, they say "water damage" is why they're denying your warranty claim?
Counterpoint: I've spent less on my 4 phones over the last ten years than a single new iPhone would cost today, including replacing a couple screens and batteries myself. I'm coming up on time for a new phone, but the iPhone prices have been keeping pace with my cumulative device total price so far.
Multiple hours' drive to the nearest apple store, so they offer no timeline advantage for me
Didn't know about that model - wasn't on the telecom websites, but it is apparently available in Canada for $576, which is much better (only the price of my last ~2 phones). The cheapest phone I saw and compared with above was an iPhone 13 mini, at $976.
Here's something I noticed: the fans of Apple hardware know they can do this, because they... have to do this. I've had 9 or so different laptops in my life over the last 2 decades, from bargain bin models to latest high-spec Lenovo. The only times I've had to fix a laptop was twice in the last 3 years on work-assigned MBP (once the motherboard failed, another time the keyboard fell apart), then had to replace a failing HDMI adapter, then the charger for it.
Maybe I'm lucky and have a terribly weird experience with hardware. But every person I personally know who uses Apple hardware has been to their store to fix/replace it at some point. Apple is definitely doing a good job with servicing, because those people are also happy this is a possibility, but... having to do it at all feels weird to me. (anecdata of course)
My MBPs usually have battery issues after 3 years of use, by then well beyond warranty period. They always charge for insane amount of money for replacing a battery, when I always turn to a third party repair shop for about 10% of the amount given by Apple geniuses.
If you have the butterfly keyboard MBP, complain about the keyboard being broken, and you may well get it replaced under the "extended repair programme" - since the battery is glued to the topcase you also get a new battery.
Sorry, that doesn’t pass the sniff test. I recently replaced the battery on my 2015 MBP. The local shop quoted around $250; Apple, $180 IIRC. It was a full top-case replacement due to Apple’s poor battery design, heavily discounted because it was a battery replacement. The local shop couldn’t compete with the discount.
Your local shop would be out of business here. The insane amount Apple asked for, ~$500, is indeed for a full top-case replacement, and they didn't mention any discount to me.
I went through 3 lenovos in the past 17 years. I had 3 failures:
1. HDD failed.
2. SSD failed.
3. I dropped it from kitchen countertop. Backlight had to be replaced, but otherwise fine.
There was zero failure associated with ports, keyboard, trackpad, or board. Mind you, each machine went through thousands of dock / undock cycle. Even batteries were holding strong charge after 5 years.
These were work laptops and I didn't baby them at all.
With that said, I wouldn't a buy cheapo Lenovo ($500) because it did fail on me completely. Dead.
With a cheap Lenovo the design and manufacturing quality is very low and failures much more common than in their professional models. As a Repair Cafe volunteer I've seen people bring in low-end Lenovos only 1-2 years old, that are literally falling apart, through normal use. The reality is there's really two Lenovo brands - the enterprise-grade one, making products designed for serviceability and durability. And there's the consumer-grade Lenovo, with products engineered to a very low price point. Other brands have this duality too. Caveat emptor.
Dead Lenovo are very easy to fix, weirdly. I've had to fix both of mine. Imagine air quotes. You have to pull the battery cable and push the power button.
x230 - replacement battery, screen died (easy replacement), handrest cracked, still usable
T460p - 5 years of light use, nothing
T470p - 3 years, nothing
Legion Y520 - keyboard stopped working partly, bought a replacement and noticed it's basically impossible to replace, then bought a second one, this time a complete top case - replacement was a chore, but fine
I mean, I have a mid-2015 MBP at home that only required a battery replacement, but otherwise works well. My iPhone 7 served me 5 years and was abandoned due to failing battery. We all have anecdotes.
You are lucky. I had problems with samsung, motorola and with the new "nokia" android phones, All probably solvable, but support is not their priority.
We have about 70 employees and giving them anything else than Apple laptops would probably be a disaster. Our support footprint is tiny in comparison with earlier years. The machines are built so well that we hardly have any failures.
I suppose some people have been unlucky with Apple hardware but it's maybe also due to the perceptions and that seemingly everyone (at least in IT and development) is using a Mac these days.
Do they even do anything in store anymore? When I bring it in they usually scratch their head, wipe the device, and try and charge me $450 to have the laptop mailed to a facility where it will have its logic board swapped out.
Just $450? Pfft. 10 years back I had an issue with an overheating MacBook Pro (within warranty) and because they couldn't reproduce it with their tests they offered a replacement board for about 850€ (parts only). Turns out changing the thermal paste (by myself) solved the issue completely.
Apple was for a long time known here in Norway to refuse to follow the consumer protection laws, so they were the worst of the bunch. So bad that lots of big retailers stopped selling Apple products for years, because the retailers had to take the costs when Apple refused.
It's better now, but not better than others or even worth mentioning. If anything, I feel people now are familiar with Apples help because their stuff keep breaking. Like the prev gen MBP I had was a mess, only computer I've ever had to repair. And even multiple times.
In Norway (and most of EU I guess?) there's laws that goes beyond warranty. So for the first half year, they really have to prove you did something out of the ordinary to break your product. Apple is notorious for saying some sensor is triggered and therefore you misused the phone. But those sensors can triggered from using the phone in normal winter conditions..
(And then for the next 4.5 years the burden of proof isn't that strong, but they still have to fix or replace broken devices, not however long a producer's warranty claims)
Folding LCDs have been a solution in search of a problem for years. Maybe they looked cool in some ID rendering or model, but I’ve never understood why anyone would want one other than the novelty factor. And as has already been pointed out, they’re destined for failure at the fold.
Yes, twice the screen, but also double the thickness, at least for the LCD and some supporting components. Figure on at least a few mm extra (LCD+touchscreen+case). I don't know of any material which can fold 180 degrees over and over, and not eventually succumb to fatigue. Maybe within the expected lifetime of a phone it will work under test conditions, but unless there is serious margin in the robustness, I would expect some to die at the fold in the real world, and that will never be good publicity.
I would double check with your credit card company to see if there is any recourse. For example, a lot of American Express cards give you an additional 1 year warranty. You can wait until the Samsung warranty ends and file a claim.
Honestly I'm pretty sure I won't ever buy another Samsung phone too, after my last experience. I bought an S20 Ultra after a price drop, it was still a very pricey phone. The camera was one of the best at the time and that sold it to me. I also bought the official Samsung hardened leather case.
The phone was a large glass-sandwich (AFAICT all their flagships still are), and within a week the glass on the side and a little on the back had cracked, just through being carried around in my pocket, in its official case the whole time.
I had a hell of time getting a refund out of Amazon ("We'll see what the manufacturer's warranty says" "no, this is your issue, you are the retailer and you'll give me a full refund because you sold me something that's clearly not fit for purpose")
Why are they selling things which are so expensive and so fragile?
I've gone over to the dark side now (iPhone 12 pro) for the first time, and while the software stack is not markedly superior on either side (IMHO), the hardware is far better designed and much more robust.
It is unfortunate (and much more) that this purchaser is not being treated well.
I am mostly an early adopter (sometimes joking that I refuse to use software past the alpha stage)... But a foldable screen? I am deeply skeptical that this will be reliable anytime in the next two decades.
We had some installation issues with a samsung washer. The runaround was ridiculous. To see what I mean, try to order a replacement part. Here’s a link to their official US parts distributor. I spent over a half hour on hold with Samsung to get this URL. Rest assured the actual parts distributor doesn’t pick up the phone at all:
This site truly has to be experienced to be fully appreciated. Try to find a part for one of their appliances (like a latch or hose or something). Here’s a list of some of their model numbers:
You may be wondering why I needed to order replacement parts for one of their appliances during initial installation. Let’s just say I’m not buying any of their crap again either.
If that’s not bad enough to scare you off, their fridges have cameras that use deep learning to translate video into marketing info, then phone it home (joining it with information from local samsung tvs if possible).
I posted my full rant about my terrible experience with Samsung at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30424010 if you want the full story, but in a nutshell, we had two Samsung Dishwashers and a Samsung Stove and a Galaxy Note9 all go out at an unrepairable level within a two-year period. And as for the Refrigerator and Microwave, they are still standing after two years but have major design flaws.
They can't design a dishwasher that doesn't die within a year. At least Best Buy honored the warranties on them - twice.
This might not work in your case for various reasons but, if you live in California:
“ LPT: If you live in California, manufacturers of most household electronic goods that sell for more than $100 have to provide spare parts for up to seven years, regardless of warranty status. If they can't make the parts available to you, they have to buy the product back from you.”
I briefly had a Samsung fridge. Total garbage. Impossible to clean without breaking stuff. Made weird noises.
I have two theories.
1) Ignorance.
Samsung's fridge team had never seen a fridge before. Certainly had never used or owned their own fridges.
2) Spite.
Samsung's fridge team harbored a deep visceral hatred of all things fridge related. They despise each and everyone of their customers on a personal basis. They hate their occupation, their employer, each other, and themselves and work overtime to covertly sabotage all work products.
I think it’s because they have so many variants for an appliance that it would be impossible to come up with English names (see ikea and their ridiculous names you can’t remember or infer anything from)
At least the number of bits of info you can encore with the appliance VIN like scheme is meaningful.
I'm willing to bet that General Motors has no fewer variants of the Chevrolet Camaro that you can buy: with three different engine choices, two or three different transmission choices, with or without A/C, power steering, seat material, exteriour colour, stripes and badging package, interior colour, radio options, suspension packages, etc etc etc.
It's still all sold as a Chevrolet Camaro and the vast majority of parts are shared - they all use e.g. the same glass, ventilation plastic, ignition switch, etc. When you do need something option specific, such as spark plugs, you do identify your vehicle by VIN.
From my experience fixing appliances, the things that break (button mounting plates, the plastic door frame, that horrible hose coming down from the pump on otherwise excellent Bosch models) is very very commonly shared across models that look the same on the outside.
Maybe it’s like the mattress industry: a scam so that you can’t compare or price match the same model at different retails because “it’s not the same model number”.
Not sure that is a good analogy. Sure, the VIN lets you deduce the general make and model of the car, but there should be zero information about any optional things encoded - but of course they have a different list of "oh, it's a Camaro, so the entertainment system can only be a A, B, or C"
This is the correct reason. Every single large chain has their own specific model number for an appliance. Then they can loudly advertise how their "KJVADSF123AAFBB" washer is the cheapest ever and they'll price match if someone sells it for cheaper.
...but they're the only ones selling that exact model.
reding the entire thread here, i think you guys have a real issue with customer protection laws.
here, we have an EU law that says that anything bought online can be returned in 14 days no questions asked. also, the warranty is for 2 years minimum.
yeah, i know it’s a socialist law, but you can bet anything on the fact that corporations will get out of their way to increase their profit. maybe caring for people should be more important.
Same in Australia, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission don't fuck around. We were the first country in the world to force Steam to refund games too.
I've had similar experience with a few manufacturers before including Apple, Dell and Samsung. The repair technicians are trained to spot even the tiniest scratch on your phone and then void your warranty (in Dell's case the technician himself probably forgot to screw one of the screws back in probably as it was missing a screw the second time I sent it back for repair...
Its ironic that scratches can void the warranty of a product even if the damage has no relation to said scratch. I guess its just big corps milking every dollar out.
I got the iPhone 13 mini at launch. Literally has no scratches even after several drops of 3-4 feet with no case. Has the best build quality of any device I've ever owned.
Latest pixel phones are even worse. Every update is a nightmare. With one update, Bluetooth wont work, next update I wont get signal etc. I don't want to be in the Apple ecosystem but I am forced to. At least it works all the time.
Google is becoming incompetent. It's not only their phones.
Currently they fail to fix their speech services for over a month. Doesn't update the language over mobile networks and drowns batteries while waiting/trying -- no matter the settings, restarts, Cache cleans. While other apps on those phones update properly over the same network.
Dropped from a 4* rating to 1.5 (s. Play Store)
Major changes were "changed name", "new icon", which were a clear warning sign to me -- now they can add "botched network handling"
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[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 150 ms ] threadWe generally call this "being an early adopter."
Better to wait for it to mature first in newer versions than to jump into the hype squad and leave disappointed.
But the model number mentioned in the post resolves to "Samsung Galaxy Z Flip3 5G" which sounds not "first edition"? According to wikipedia samsung's first foldable phone came out in 2019.
Now the first Apple Watch…
I'm not even sure "looking cool" was a factor in some of the worst ones. "Winning industrial design awards for being thinner than possible" stands out to me. In pursuit of that, they had four years worth of laptop keyboards that didn't work long term, and got rid of the most amazing feature ever for laptop charging (MagSafe), to thin things out further with USB-C. Not a bad connector, but definitely a bad charging connector compared to MagSafe for people with kids, pets, etc.
I'm glad they've gone back to a laptop that seems to work, but... I've lost interest.
Was it the Apple // era, Macs, iPods, iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods, etc?
What feature phone in 2021 has anything that a modern consumer would find acceptable?
I’ve had Androïd for a decade after Apple forced an update to the iPhone 3G that made it so slow you couldn’t even dial a number anymore.
But a couple years ago, I bought a used iPhone 6s because I got tired of the Androïd flakiness and lack of quality in general. All my trust in google also eroded over time.
I don’t regret jumping ships again. The iPhone works well, I can still block all ads (except in the YouTube app) using nextdns.io, my 6 years old iPhone still gets updates and runs well. The only thing I miss is newpipe but the trade off was worth it.
The 50$ China androids you mention are riddled with spyware and provide few or no updates once the phone has been released. Then you have to deal with alternative roms if they exist which means you’re spending more time making your phone work that actually being able to use it normally.
Not saying it can appeal to some but it’s not for everyone if you want something that just works and is affordable.
I paid 200$ for my used iPhone 2 years ago and I’m keeping it until they stop proving iOS updates AND then new features in the new iOS would actually be useful to me.
I replaced the battery myself last year (cost 10$ + the ifixit tool set for 70$ which I’ve used many times to fix other things). It’s not quite 50$ but it’s not 1000$ either.
Edit: not talking about MacBooks. This is a completely different story with brain dead decisions to look good even if it fails constantly (their shitty keyboards of the last 4–5 years) or refusing to even acknowledge let alone fix serious issues (like that MacBook with the gpu desoldering itself and failing in groves while apple was saying lalalalala and ignoring the problem for YEARS. I won’t ever buy a MacBook, they’re not good value and I don’t trust Apple to make good decisions about them or own up their mistakes with them. Plus they cost multiples more than a decent used laptop or workstation on which you can run Linux and upgrade components whenever needed so it can last you 5–10 years.
No one owes you anything. Furthermore all applicable warranties are communicated at time of purchase.
Bottom line, if the risk adjusted return is not worth it, then don't buy it. You may not be an early adopter
i.e. the reversed burden of proof during the first 6 months, where it is assumed the device is at fault, and they supplier has to prove it is not.
So in this case I'd agree, I see little proof just an assertion, and would suggest they institute the process for their equivalent of a Small Claims Court case.
This is in the EU, where manufacturers are required to provide a two year guarantee [0], which can't be voluntarily opted out of.
[0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
Well yeah. Buying something early is the most expensive time to buy it. The inefficiencies haven't been worked out of the manufacturing process yet, and there's not an established wide customer base to spread the R&D over yet.
Radios in the 1920s cost over 100 hours of wages for a lot of people. TVs in the 50s were stupid expensive. Computers in the early 60s were literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. And all of these things were pretty garbage compared to what you think of today. Hell, the computer from the early 60s could probably lose a math race to a seasoned abacus veteran.
In exchange for the high risk and high payment, you get to play with something that might be cool, and you get bragging rights (depending on your personality type, one of these might excite you more than the other).
> Any decent company would fix it, full stop.
Well, probably. I'm not going to defend samsung here. They're acting pretty garbage.
But the point about new tech being risky, is entirely fair. If something's still exciting, it's probably a good idea for the risk-averse to avoid it.
How is this remotely like the life changing effect of getting a radio or tv?
The point was that it was all 4 together of: expensive, immature, unsupported, and not sold as unsupported.
It was sold with a standard warranty like any product, yet in reality they just deny the claim no matter how valid.
The expense only means that's why you care, that they take your money which did not break on them a few weeks later, and don't honor their promises.
I try to get gen 2 or later after a new revision.
I made an exception with my current car because all the electronics are new which to be frank are probably the biggest risk, but Isuzu engines, drive trains and gear boxes have barely changed in 10+ years. And they're the parts I'm more worried about and the 6 year warranty covers everything else.
But as you said, the same reliability can never be expected in consumables like computers, phones and the like.
Seems like you're saying a person who bought a thousand euro phone and couldn't get it repaired under warranty after a month of mild use is "risk-averse" if they dislike that experience.
Would a truly non-risk-averse person be overjoyed by this experience or see no problem with it? Would they accept it as the price they pay for being an early adopter and see no reason to complain? I'm confused.
I'm saying that a person who is risk-averse should probably avoid this. There aren't very many third party repair places yet, so you're completely at the mercy of a single company.
There's also an increased risk if said company is based outside your country (or supra-national political union, should you live in one). It's harder for a country to force a company in another jurisdiction into compliance.
Yes, I think vendors should not have put this out on the market, but it seems people were very happy to pay for such a gimmick.
To me it was obvious this was a giant failure point. It's not risky when you know it's going to fail. Maybe a tradeoff is a better name for it.
> As with any new technology it takes time to iron out early problems. Things break, need to be fixed, improved etc. That’s all fine! I wasn’t angry when the phone broke, I was angry when it wasn’t repaired.
That the phone might break is inherent in the fact that it's a new technology. The question is who pays for it when it does, the customer or the manufacturer.
I was an early adopter of a Chumby (damn I loved that thing). The risk I took was that they would go out of business and no longer support the eco system - that risk proved real.
I can accept taking a risk and it not working out, this is taking one risk and having the company try and pin other risks on you.
Blaming the customer for your weak ass product is not the early-adopter risk, its the caveat emptor / screw you risk. I reject the idea that early adopter means accepting bad quality.
I recently had an issue with my car (A volvo for what it matters) with some painted plastic pealing. It was the first model year, I wasn't surprised, things need to get worked out...the early adopter risk is from them working things out. I took it in and they initially rejected the warranty claim and blamed me. I offered to have a paint chemist friend look at it and do an analysis - that changed their tune quickly. The early adopter risk I took was to my time that there might be some manufacturing quirks...not to them being sleazy about standing by their products.
I know that's not the point of the post, and I'm not blaming the author. It just seems like such a ridiculous concept in the first place. My old flip phone had its own problems, and there wasn't even a display along the seam.
Like even if you really wanted screen that went down to a smaller size, why not do something scroll-inspired, rather than book-inspired?
Give it a couple of revisions and you'll see products that you actually want to buy.
Compare those pen based tablets that Bill Gates was demoing in IIRC 2002 to the first ipad.
This is in fact completely backward: a continuous deformable surface has all the problems of two exactly adjacent but discontinuous surfaces, with the additional problem of providing relief for the fold.
Apple has developed it's own silicon and the chips powering iPhones, iPads and Macs are now the same. They come up with new and interesting manufacturing processes, or supply chain management. Their phones have lidar now. But you know what I've hear for years even from developer friends? "Apple can no longer innovate."
Samsung comes up with a folding screen of dubious quality or changes the shape of the phone and people love it. Internally it's just another Qualcomm or Exynos or whatever. But then what isn't besides Apple? Seems reasonable to try and carve out their segment of the Android market and I think they are largely successful. I know people who will specifically buy Samsung even when you can get similar specced phones for cheaper.
You could consider getting new friends who are more intelligent. Some people are being fooled by the fact that a rectangle shape is staying consistent year after year, a very surface attribute. Apple does deep work. People who think only the surface matters are missing the story.
For some reason Google does not seem to fit, possibly because of Xoogler anecdotes I've read here. GitHub seems close but maybe too scattered in many directions (for example, they seem to have some new huge feature in beta every other week). Airbnb does deep work from what I've seen (I attended an internal hackathon once). I wonder if that's not one of the strengths of YC and YC-picks, inherently...
Like, a lot of people? I don't know anyone who's even been intrigued enough to buy it, and an overwhelming majority of feedback I hear online is negative.
Reviews indicate that when even fully open there's a slight bend you can feel when you're using the touchscreen.
But really, we should just look at Microsoft's Duo and see the reality of a two screen device.
Maybe they could sell big roles of perforated phones, so you can just tear a new phone off the end each time you need one, like toilet paper.
Under the picture of clear damage to the phone.
I’d be angry if it were a €100 budget model, but this would make me livid.
Cynical me says that Samsung is seeing above average warranty claims on these foldable phones. Thus they need to get them down so some manager somewhere decides that they will enforce the policies more strictly with small scratches and dents outright disqualifying claims. Lo and behold this reduces the warranty claims paid out but in the grand scheme of things completely demolishes any customer loyalty.
I wonder if author reached out via twitter or some other social media channel to have Samsung comment.
Also I have to think what Apple or Google would do. I'm pretty sure Apple would just straight up repair the phone with very few questions (that has been my experience). Google you'd have to go through a longer warranty process but my guess is they'd be more lenient and eventually you'd get a new or repaired phone.
Samsung is losing hard here.
Somebody was told to invent a new type of phone, something that will "wow" people. That's the flip phone.
Somebody was told that the warranty claims were coming in too fast, and need to be reduced.
Same reason people at Google keep launching new products. It doesn't make Google look good, it doesn't achieve Google's goals, it makes L5s promotable to L6s.
The goal becomes less about doing things that benefit customers, and more about doing things that benefit the organization.
It's sad but I've accepted that this is how most companies are today.
One way to avoid getting burned is to only buy what you actually need when you actually need it.
You were lucky, the reality is that sometimes Apple pretens an issue does not exist and only after a big action lawsuit is started they suddenly they become generous and offer to fix the problem. So the first people that had a bad experience before the lawsuits are in much smaller number and their experience is crushed by the rest that praise Apple for the generosity of fixing their mistakes after they are forced by external stuff.
> Released 2019, October 22
How is a 2 year old phone aging?
The one I managed to get repaired under warranty (Nexus 5 bootlooping death) lasted 1 week before dying the exact same way again. It look 2 weeks just to get it repaired.
I switched to iPhone. I can’t remember what number even though I’m typing on it because it doesn’t matter. It works as well today as the day I bought it. (Although I do miss Google’s keyboard)
I doubt I'll ever buy an iPhone brand new (I go out of my way not to support the CCP) but until Pinephone and linux becomes a usable mobile OS I'll stick with the XS until it either dies or Apple stop supporting it in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_iOS_and_iPadOS_devices
4 years or so? The iphone 6s was released in 2015 and it's still getting support, that's incredible.
Good thing I only spend 200€ every two years on the latest trustworthy moto g. Clean google experience, no bloatware, nice gesture actions.
A 1k€ phone would have to last 10 years to give comparable value, and I doubt it exists since battery and flash memory tech is the same no matter the price.
Yeah it shows that it is old. The battery and performance is worse than before, but it still lasts the day as I am not using it that hard. I have no legitimate _need_ to upgrade as it stands today.
I guess the frequency of upgrades quite heavily on usage, but I find upgrading every 2 years to be very often.
Edit to add: replaced a slim silicone cover once or twice, hardened glass screen protector 3 or 4 times.
My phone right now is a Fairphone 4, with replaceable battery (and the rest too!).
It'll come with a 5-year warranty and software updates, but the big question is of course if hardware specs will be good enough in 5 years.
I’m sure someone in these companies has made a spreadsheet that shows permissive repair and replacement policies cost $X million a year, but it probably doesn’t take into account that the experience with the iPod directly led to me purchasing multiple iPhones and Macs.
I am still buying Apple products. So jokes on me.
Oh, so, fraud.
Retail is hard. Perhaps less hard for Apple, but I wonder to what extent the retail store employees end up paying for stuff like this.
I was in lawn and garden during springtime. People would come in and buy a fully loaded top of the line lawn tractor. A week later it would be back, covered in mud and grass clippings, clearly having been through hell. Inevitably they were not happy with it. Probably because their pasture was now mowed.
I moved to electronics in the winter. Same story around the Super Bowl but this time big screen TVs.
It was easy to tell. Customers who just went straight to the big ticket item without any questions were obviously not interested in a long term purchase. But we just ate it.
The shitty thing was I got paid commission. Those returns got clawed back in my next paycheck.
I think Apple at least has the decency to pay their retail employees hourly.
You're not alone. A lot of people will invest a lot of time into lying, playing dumb, making threats (think people with a lot of Twitter followers threatening to broadcast how terrible your company is unless you give them exactly what they want) and other manipulative tactics to abuse warranty claims.
Ultimately this is why we had to become more strict about warranty claims. When half of your warranty claims are coming from people angling for free upgrades or demanding full-price refunds after many years of service (some of whom tried to demand to keep the hardware and get a refund), you quickly become numb to it. I guess companies like Apple can absorb the lies for a while, but eventually you have to make a choice between padding your margins to cater to the warranty abusers or becoming more strict on warranty claims.
Costco, Nordstrom, Marine Layer, etc.
To me this is a winning strategy. Even if it’s 1 in 5 or less.
It was annoying, but we did bill samsung for all the work. :)
The blogs author might also like the fact that samsung owns their warranty repair infrastructure, they don't contract it out. So less repairs means more profit. While contractors repair everything that is not obviously deliberate.
In earlier iPhone generations, they would replace your EarPod headphones without a hassle (or wait). Later on (as Apple got more popular and Apple store genius bar lines grew longer), you had to make a reservation and they would only consider replacing it after checking the cable's (discrete) serial number.
It’s so hard to step out the Apple ecosystem when these other manufacturers have consistently screwed me over with repairs.
I’m specifically calling out Dell, Samsung and LG here. All were utterly terrible experiences.
Dell was the absolute worst though. They sold me a $1,700+ XPS notebook that months later had a non-functional trackpad, and they refused to do anything to rectify the situation. With an investment that large I need certainty that I can get support, and thus far Apple is the only PC OEM that has provided that.
If anyone can suggest non-Apple OEMs that at least provide a competitive support experience, I’m all ears.
Framework shipped their first product in 2021. Let's give them a bit before comparing them to an extremely matured product from one of the richest companies ever. If they survive long enough to make a version 5.0, it'll probably still be worse than the MacBook due to the lower level of integration, but modularity is a definite perk.
Edit: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light...
Actually the CPU looks decent.
Or
“Other than that, how was the play Ms. Lincoln”
Have you ever thought Apple got to be the richest company in the world from almost being bankrupt a little over 20 years ago by not shipping sub par hardware?
Well there were the butterfly keyboards…
You don’t care when a laptop sounds like a 747 when you are working under load?
I haven't unplugged my Macbook Pro more than a couple times in the last 2 years.
In short, I'd take a two inch thick Clevo that sounds like a 747 and only lasts for 2 hours if it meant not having to worry about turning my HVAC on when I want to do a screenshare.
If I wanted to tinker, I'd buy a Raspbery PI. I want to get work done while giving as little thought as possible to the hardware I'm using to facilitate the work.
If speed and downtime and hands-off are the most important features that trump all others, then this whole post about the cost of a bad warranty policy wasn't for you in the first place.
You don't have time for warrantys!
You just pull out the spare laptop you got at the same time as the one that broke, or your old one wich is only 1 year old and still more than good enough to work on while the new one is down. Or you just immediately go down to Staples or BestBuy or Microcenter and buy a new one.
Apple is not a magic better option where you can have your cake and eat it too. They routinely deny warranty or even reasonable paid repair for things they shipped defective. I have several unfortunate friends with laptops and all-in-ones over the years with dead video cards that Apple refused to repair, and they are not self repairable because even for the desktop model the video card is non-standard so you can't just replace it, and thanks to Apple's unique actions wrt getting the government to seize things at the border, no one else is even allowed to make a replacement either. And those keyboards...they stopped making them, yet did they ever make good on all those people they sold those models to? Apple routinely, routinely, absolutely screws over people who believed the marketing about how great the support is. That high premium you pay for the device goes to sending high paid lawyers to every small town to make sure they win in court against petty warranty suits from ordinary individuals.
They spend $10k just make sure that a warranty for a $50 part does not win in court. That is not better than the article's terrible Samsung experience.
It's not that I don't like to tinker, I love tinkering with things. But things like my primary phone or primary computer I need to "just work", and I need them to work all the time with minimal downtime.
At least for me, Apple's selling point of "just let us take care of it" is very appealing, I'm already dealing with a ton of things every day, I don't need to add "fixing my phone" to that list.
It's never been more complicated than the normal:
1) "make sure your BIOS is upto date" hogwash, which I troubleshoot prior.
2) Acknowledge it's a hardware issue
3) Get a field tech to call me
4) Wait a day or two at most for parts, if not the same day
5) Tech comes out and replaces any parts at my place of work or home
6) Fixed
And this has been over years and years with Precision and XPS laptops.
We really have no consumer protections in the US anymore.
How is that not covered by the standard, mandated 1-year warranty? Did they pull the same BS described in the article?
Apple is no saint for this kind of stuff either though, I still remember the red humidity marker in the headphone jack that denied repairs to many people because of “water damage” (which was actually just sweat, probably)
Nobody else I know of stands behind their laptops like that. If a company by default bets money on their own products then that's reassuring. Is the product any good? Prove it, like Dell.
Not that XPS laptops don't fail, cause they do, but at least it's rare enough that Dell is willing to spend large amounts on on-site next business day repair.
Here in Norway it used to be (at least with HP) that if you bought the professional line you'd get professional service.
I had a personal nc6320 bought some 17 years ago and they would literally come to my desk and replace the monitor free of charge. (No, I didn't have a paid support plan, this was included in the purchase price and I had bought it myself, not through a company.)
Around the same time, trying to get a consumer grade HP repaired was just painful.
I was totally surprised when I called them and they asked me to call business support and business support just asked where they could find me and when I wanted them to be there. I can't remember a single clue pointing in this direction before I called customer support for home computers.
(Then again: I should stop getting surprised by companies that waste fantastic marketing opportunities.)
I was told they they should normally be able to do this replacement, but they didn't have replacement batteries available. After mentioning I could just leave the device with them until the stock became available, they went off into the back for a few minutes.
When they returned, they said they would accept my years old Macbook as a return for its original purchase price and I walked out with a brand new Macbook Pro essentially for the cost of the tax.
I cannot imagine getting this service from any other computer vendor.
We got a home remodel, with Samsung appliances because they looked decent and were priced reasonably enough for what we wanted. Mainly, a Samsung Refrigerator, Microwave, Stove and Dishwasher. Around the same time we also bought a Galaxy Note9 smartphone.
2 years later, only the Refrigerator and Microwave have survived. The Dishwasher broke after a year, and was replaced with a new Samsung which also broke in a year, and we replaced it with Bosch. The Stove's burners just stopped working and couldn't be fixed by the repairman, so that was replaced (with a non-Samsung one).
As for the surviving appliances, Samsung had the ingenuity to build the Microwave's control electronics inside the microwave door, the thing most likely to get slammed, so we're babying the microwave or otherwise that would have almost certainly died from that idiotic decision. Even though the refrigerator is still standing, the "stainless steel" is apparently so thin it's covered in dents from when children left drawers open next to it, something stainless steel should be resistant to.
Lastly, the Note9 after a year became slower than a snail crawling up a rock (crashed constantly opening even basic apps like Outlook) and no battery replacement or factory reset could revive it. Also began dropping calls randomly and constantly, and apparently it was a botched firmware update that randomly affected people with absolutely no fix. Replaced with iPhone 13 Pro.
Never again.
I guess we should be lucky our stuff isn’t catching on fire like most Samsung products do (at least when they are not supposed to be).
Samsung wants me to try a factory reset as solution but I have too much of data to do that. Might move to pixel next.
I recommend Apple phones to everyone in my family for the specific reason that if you have a broken Apple device, you can walk into an Apple store and get it fixed.
My mom is starting some kind of personal vendetta because her 13 month Ipad just stopped functioning. The Apple store told her it's 'fried' and she needs to just buy a new one.
It sounds like it is defective.
There's also plenty of ways to damage a device. You could plug it into a damaged, cheap USB charger.
Can't be an alpha or beta tester for a multibillion dollar corp if you're the second owner, and already have heard any and all gripes about a model.
Funny how nobody has time for that, but plenty of time to
1) be without a device
2) complain
etc
Also, a bad USB charger should not kill a device.
I've seen a USB charger pumping -1 to 11 volts AC out the USB connector - it was fluctuating 6 volts in either direction. Of course, you need an oscolliscope to detect that as it's at 50 hertz (C plug) - on a regular voltmeter it looked like 5 v steady.
A question to the lawmakers.
I've honestly never had a TV just randomly die on me before, which is why I never buy the extended warranties. But Vizio not selling parts for expensive TVs just doesn't sit well with me, hence the "never again".
I still remember when I bought it, I was choosing between it and a TCL. When I asked what the difference was, the guy banged on the back really hard of each. The TCL showed big white splotches when hit, the LG had no effect. He called it 'shielding', but I'm not versed enough to know if that's a thing.
Maybe not available through "Them", but "their" prices are usually atrocious.
The touchscreen started losing sensitivity on the edges (curved glass) after 13 months. The store made a bad decision carrying that phone model. They fixed/replaced it.
The UK has 6 (or 5 depending on part) years statutory consumer protection, and so didn't have to change anything when the EU brought in the 2 year period. I believe Ireland was in a similar position at the time.
We did end up changing stuff for the initial 6 month 'reversed burden of proof' protection
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9223197
The top comment in above is "Apple customer service is hell" :-)
My Samsung Galaxy Note9 literally had a firmware update go out that, looking on Samsung's forums, caused calls to drop like flies completely at random. Once you updated to that firmware, there's no going back and no hardware replacement will fix the issue. There is absolutely no fix months later, no acknowledgement there is an issue, and no fix of any kind. We had to get an iPhone because you can't run a business when you are apologizing over email daily for a missed call.
Not saying Apple is great - but Samsung has objectively worse problems.
Edit: And it's not just their phones. My experience with their appliances is unbelievably cursed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30424010
Multiple hours' drive to the nearest apple store, so they offer no timeline advantage for me
Maybe I'm lucky and have a terribly weird experience with hardware. But every person I personally know who uses Apple hardware has been to their store to fix/replace it at some point. Apple is definitely doing a good job with servicing, because those people are also happy this is a possibility, but... having to do it at all feels weird to me. (anecdata of course)
There was zero failure associated with ports, keyboard, trackpad, or board. Mind you, each machine went through thousands of dock / undock cycle. Even batteries were holding strong charge after 5 years. These were work laptops and I didn't baby them at all.
With that said, I wouldn't a buy cheapo Lenovo ($500) because it did fail on me completely. Dead.
That's it.
x230 - replacement battery, screen died (easy replacement), handrest cracked, still usable
T460p - 5 years of light use, nothing
T470p - 3 years, nothing
Legion Y520 - keyboard stopped working partly, bought a replacement and noticed it's basically impossible to replace, then bought a second one, this time a complete top case - replacement was a chore, but fine
Overall: still a happy Lenovo customer
I suppose some people have been unlucky with Apple hardware but it's maybe also due to the perceptions and that seemingly everyone (at least in IT and development) is using a Mac these days.
It's better now, but not better than others or even worth mentioning. If anything, I feel people now are familiar with Apples help because their stuff keep breaking. Like the prev gen MBP I had was a mess, only computer I've ever had to repair. And even multiple times.
In Norway (and most of EU I guess?) there's laws that goes beyond warranty. So for the first half year, they really have to prove you did something out of the ordinary to break your product. Apple is notorious for saying some sensor is triggered and therefore you misused the phone. But those sensors can triggered from using the phone in normal winter conditions..
(And then for the next 4.5 years the burden of proof isn't that strong, but they still have to fix or replace broken devices, not however long a producer's warranty claims)
The phone was a large glass-sandwich (AFAICT all their flagships still are), and within a week the glass on the side and a little on the back had cracked, just through being carried around in my pocket, in its official case the whole time.
I had a hell of time getting a refund out of Amazon ("We'll see what the manufacturer's warranty says" "no, this is your issue, you are the retailer and you'll give me a full refund because you sold me something that's clearly not fit for purpose")
Why are they selling things which are so expensive and so fragile?
I've gone over to the dark side now (iPhone 12 pro) for the first time, and while the software stack is not markedly superior on either side (IMHO), the hardware is far better designed and much more robust.
I am mostly an early adopter (sometimes joking that I refuse to use software past the alpha stage)... But a foldable screen? I am deeply skeptical that this will be reliable anytime in the next two decades.
https://www.samsungparts.com/
This site truly has to be experienced to be fully appreciated. Try to find a part for one of their appliances (like a latch or hose or something). Here’s a list of some of their model numbers:
https://www.whirlpoolparts.com/PartSearch/ProductBrandAllMod...
You may be wondering why I needed to order replacement parts for one of their appliances during initial installation. Let’s just say I’m not buying any of their crap again either.
If that’s not bad enough to scare you off, their fridges have cameras that use deep learning to translate video into marketing info, then phone it home (joining it with information from local samsung tvs if possible).
They can't design a dishwasher that doesn't die within a year. At least Best Buy honored the warranties on them - twice.
“ LPT: If you live in California, manufacturers of most household electronic goods that sell for more than $100 have to provide spare parts for up to seven years, regardless of warranty status. If they can't make the parts available to you, they have to buy the product back from you.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/p9nz0l/lpt_if_...
(Sorry, I hate linking to Reddit web interface)
https://teddit.net/r/LifeProTips/comments/p9nz0l/lpt_if_you_...
https://old.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/p9nz0l/lpt_if_...
https://i.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/p9nz0l/lpt_if_yo...
I have two theories.
1) Ignorance.
Samsung's fridge team had never seen a fridge before. Certainly had never used or owned their own fridges.
2) Spite.
Samsung's fridge team harbored a deep visceral hatred of all things fridge related. They despise each and everyone of their customers on a personal basis. They hate their occupation, their employer, each other, and themselves and work overtime to covertly sabotage all work products.
Model numbers for white goods tend to be "encoded", almost like a VIN; this isn't a Samsung-specific thing.
At least the number of bits of info you can encore with the appliance VIN like scheme is meaningful.
It's still all sold as a Chevrolet Camaro and the vast majority of parts are shared - they all use e.g. the same glass, ventilation plastic, ignition switch, etc. When you do need something option specific, such as spark plugs, you do identify your vehicle by VIN.
From my experience fixing appliances, the things that break (button mounting plates, the plastic door frame, that horrible hose coming down from the pump on otherwise excellent Bosch models) is very very commonly shared across models that look the same on the outside.
Maybe it’s like the mattress industry: a scam so that you can’t compare or price match the same model at different retails because “it’s not the same model number”.
Exact same thing, just a different model number.
...but they're the only ones selling that exact model.
here, we have an EU law that says that anything bought online can be returned in 14 days no questions asked. also, the warranty is for 2 years minimum.
yeah, i know it’s a socialist law, but you can bet anything on the fact that corporations will get out of their way to increase their profit. maybe caring for people should be more important.
Ten minutes on GrapheneOS.org web installer, no longer forced.
Currently they fail to fix their speech services for over a month. Doesn't update the language over mobile networks and drowns batteries while waiting/trying -- no matter the settings, restarts, Cache cleans. While other apps on those phones update properly over the same network. Dropped from a 4* rating to 1.5 (s. Play Store)
Major changes were "changed name", "new icon", which were a clear warning sign to me -- now they can add "botched network handling"