HN Explorer

Unionized Programmers?

15 points by kirbman89 ↗ HN
Programmers in the US Postal Service have union representation. This union also represents accountants. Members have the option to join the union or not join the union. Either way, the union negotiates wages/benefits for programmers and accountants.

I understand the benefit for unions that represent lower skilled workers and skill tradesmen. However, it seems absurd there is a union that represents programmers or accountants.

We can discuss the problems in the news section if there's interest.

But for now does anyone else know of other unions in IT?

9 comments

[ 4.9 ms ] story [ 35.5 ms ] thread
[dead] thedeuce
I see unionized IT at USPS daily. Not pretty; if I were to go into detail I could write a book.
andrewcooke
when i worked at cerro tololo inter-american observatories (la serena, chile). there was a union and i was a member. seemed to work fine - they were smart people, did good work, and the wages were higher than average. nothing absurd about it.
kirbman89
what you describe does sound like it worked out well.

my opinion is that there is enough demand for good programmers for the market to determine good wages/benefits. the usps union in question is working on a new contract. rumor has it they are agreeing to a whopping 3.5% raise spread over 5 years. the last annual raise was 1.2%!

there are a large percentage of "obsolete" CoBOL programmers that weren't transitioned properly to web applications. many of whom perform non-technical/light-duty tasks. the mostly younger folks carry the majority of the load. it's mostly a result of incompetent management whom never enforce accountability.

foolinator
The IRS has unionized workers. 5 weeks vaca, 3 weeks sick pay, overtime.. It's a sweet gig and deserves to be - they control the biggest money collection in the world.
kirbman89
The benefits are great at the USPS. However, salaries aren't great. It's difficult to witness much of the waste of deadbeat full-timers and even some incompetent staffed contractors. Outsourcing to Accenture and IBM are often just massive give-aways with no-bid contracts. It's a demoralizing environment along with finicial state of the Postal Service.

Managers have the same benefits. Plus, they get to telecommute 2-3 days a week! Since that benefit was given a year or so ago many of the managers have become even more disconnected with their job.

Managers also get bonuses which they deny. The bonuses are called "pay for performance". That's a joke because the metrics used for the PFP bonuses are ridiculous and encourage micromanaging which creates resentment towards supervisors. The entire workforce is demoralized. For most, it's difficult to leave the benefits.

[dead] thedeuce
ibm/accenture ....optimo/northrop no matter which way you slice it the majority are incompetent. On their blazing 32bit windows xp systems, they feverishly code their 1998'ish websites with state of the art j2ee/struts/xml/oracle/websphere 5,6 and copying all their favorite javascript widgets. To top if off most of the people use SVN as a filesystem with total disregard for history. I could go on, but the name of the game now is the resume dance.
_delirium
For wages I agree, but I think things like changing what's "normal" in employment contracts and working conditions are one thing that you often get from a union which tech has been lacking. I'm not sure of the overall pros/cons, but to make significant pushback on things like noncompetes (where "significant" means more than a small % of people managing to write them out of their contracts) would require collective action of one sort or another imo--- either some kind of union, or else directly via government (like CA's law on the subject).
queensnake
I had a friend who was a programmer in Italy, where he was part of the machinists' union or something. In the US there's a Programmer's Guild but they're probably more of a PAC (Political Action Group) than a union.
PeterMcCanney
Back in 2000/2001 I worked for an Irish broadcaster on their online presence. The company was heavily unionised. Because they weren't sure which union us techies should be in, the local chapter of the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) decide that we belonged under them.

Their reasoning was that they had technical print workers part and the Internet was a form of electric printing. Few of us joined.

And when a inevitable round of lay-offs came the union members got better severance packages. In a heavily unionised environment it's definitely worth the membership dues.

If you think it's absurd for a programmers union what do you think of an employer's union? http://www.ibec.ie/ has always been called, and behaved as, the employers union despite dropping union from their name in 1990.