What shoes have you found to work? I'm usually in nice jeans and a button-down shirt (no tie or blazer, most of the time), but haven't found shoes I really like. Thoughts?
I like boat shoes and desert boots personally. Both are extremely versatile and go as well with jeans as they go with khakis or slacks. As an added bonus, they mostly come in browns, which provides additional discouragement to wear the developer black t-shirt.
I try hard not to buy clothes made from animal products. Any suggestions? I have some saucony vegan shoes but they fell apart pretty quickly and aren't very classy.
I have a pair of Novacas shoes that are pretty dressy. I haven't worn them heavily, so I don't know how well they will hold up over the long run, but they're comfortable. All their stuff is vegan.
I have personally found eccos (http://www.eccousa.com/) to be incredibly comfortable with lots of looks to choose from. In terms of geek cred, I buy one expensive but incredibly comfortable pair once every couple years and wear them out completely.
Since I've started using a standing desk really comfortable shoes like eccos are a must.
I happen to like what I find at the Clark's outlet. The one I go to holds a yearly sale where you can get shoes from $20-$40 (at up to a 70% discount). So I got some pretty awesome leather dress shoes for $20. And the sneakers that I bought last year look like they'll last another several years.
Even at retail / discounted retail they're a good price for the quality.
I had a pair of HS Trask Trophy Oxfords that were my favorite pair of shoes, both for style and comfort, however they proved a failure in the longevity department - they wore out after a year, and by that time, HS Trask had discontinued that model, and I wasn't impressed with the replacement. I would have happily bought a new pair a year.
I eventually replaced them with Doc Marten Javan Kurts, which are larger, about as comfortable, and hopefully a bit more durable.
I have a pair of Streetcars Milan (http://www.kohls.com/kohlsStore/mens_shoes/casual/laceup/PRD...) that I quite like -- they're comfortable, they look good, and just roomy enough that I can put my Superfeet insoles in them without cutting off circulation to my feet. The only complaint I have about them is that the tread on them is wearing down a little faster than I would've expected.
Take a look at the Red Wing 101 [1], a.k.a. "the Postman". Designed in the 1950s for people who had to walk a lot while wearing a uniform - I actually first spotted them on the feet of policemen in New York -, they combine comfort with a simple-but-neat look which provides a nice contrast if worn with straight cuffed selvedge jeans.
I'm glad to see someone else musing on something that I have always wondered about.
You don't have a wear a 3-piece suit to be taken seriously. But when you wear faded/ratty jeans and a t-shirt it's hard to be taken seriously. Look at the pictures of the Great Depression: every man on the street waiting in line wore a suit. Not just business shirts, a suit. And these were guys like dock workers, laborers, &c.
I think it's because of a counter-cultural movement of preferring ratty, grungy, grimey-looking things. And, lets face it, people do judge you by what they see.
I don't want to look like a 20-something guy in ratty pants and a t-shirt with some obscene rockstar; I want to be taken seriously, just like I try to take others (even a weirdo in a t-shirt) seriously.
> Look at the pictures of the Great Depression: every man on the street waiting in line wore a suit.
I think in the '30s a suit was just what men owned - a durable, practical, all purpose set of clothing. They'd wear the same to the beach, because that's what they had. It probably cost them a lot of money, and owning any more clothes would cost a lot more. It didn't mean the same thing it does now.
I once had lunch with PG after having come back from a VC meeting. I had just moved to California then and was wearing business attire. PG stopped mid-sentence to ask me if I had on french cuffs and then told me how investors like startup guys to be scrappy haha.
"And what would be wrong would be that how one presented oneself counted more than the quality of one's ideas. That's the problem with formality. Dressing up is not so much bad in itself. The problem is the receptor it binds to: dressing up is inevitably a substitute for good ideas. It is no coincidence that technically inept business types are known as "suits."
dressing up is inevitably a substitute for good ideas
This is perhaps a little strong, but I did think about this when I read this line from the original post:
You are building the future, so dress like it.
No. Engineering is about the things, not the people. Our goal is to draw attention to the work, not the worker.
There's a reason why Steve Jobs became famous for always wearing the same, very neutral uniform on stage. He does this because it really isn't about him. It's about the product. The product is the star.
Engineers dress like stagehands because that is our aspiration. The message we're sending is: Don't watch me. Watch the product. I'm focused on the product and you should be as well.
It really depends on who you're talking to, for the most part especially dealing with clients, you get better treatment wearing a suit.
However you dress, you should look good, if you're confident in t-shirts and khakis presenting to a room full of suits then do it, if you're more confident in a suit then wear a suit.
Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I honestly find it harder to write code when I'm well dressed. I really don't know why this is the case. Perhaps my subconscious thinks I'm performing physical labor when I code, and thus being well dressed causes discomfort.
The "dress for success" mentality is an anachronism, at least in North America.
Casual workdays used to be an employer granted privilege, but in this day and age, casual everyday is an entitlement in a lot of companies. The definition of "workplace casual" has become more lax in the past 20 years too.
Being middle aged myself, I'm not a fan of the shift towards casual dress every day, but times change, and that's just how it is.
"You’ve got nothing to lose, save for some “geek cred.”"
Maybe you underestimate the importance of feeling like you fit in. Being ostracized from your group is painful and can even lead to being left out of new information, like the up-and-coming programming languages, etc. It can lead to people saying, "He's not a team player" and it actually affecting your job.
Another problem is that you've defined 'better' as you see it, and not as your peers see it. You think you're better than them, but you aren't really. It's all an ego trip for you.
I read _Put This On_ (not because I aspire to "dress better", whichbelievemeanyonewhoknowsme &c &c but because it's well written and enthusiastic and I'd read a blog about Hummel figurines if it was graceful and engaging) and I think "ego trip" is the wrong word here.
I think for these "dressing up when their social situation doesn't really demand it" people, dressing up is a hobby. They'd (a) like it people shared their hobby, because that's more fun, and they'd (b) like not to be judged based on that hobby, which is what happens to developers who show up in ties.
I read your post but I still don't know why I must care about fashion? I try to develop my programming skills, I try to educate myself, I try to be a kind person, I go to gym frequently and I eat well. But the fashion sense is not something I'm interested, I just want to be comfortable.
I checked Put This On and I didn't like the style.
Exactly - when I work, it's to get things done, not be part of a fashion show. You think Jobs, Zuck, or Brin care about being fashionable on the job?? I respect the OP's opinion, but it felt very high school-ish to me.
That said, I'm not against people dressing however they want. I don't roll into the office looking like a slob, but I definitely don't obsess about my outfit for the day.
I obsess more about the thought and effort put into the products I'm creating..
>> Developer culture is a meritocracy, and if you're putting out good code you can wear whatever the fuck you want.
Yeah. My problem with what you're saying is that if you're putting out great code, you can probably wear whatever the f you want.
But if "good" represents average, and you tell any competent employer that you can wear whatever the f you want, you're just telling him/her that you've got an attitude problem.
Comfortable clothes and dressing up are not mutually exclusive. Just because a nerd might not know how to find comfortable dressier clothes does not make a suit uncomfortable in itself.
And what I was trying to say is that a rock star (insert profession here) is more likely to be able to get away with saying "I'm going to wear whatever the f--- I want to wear" than someone who is just good, especially in a workplace where wearing jeans and t-shirts is not an accepted norm. And that's usually the case outside of the tech startup and creative worlds.
I'm glad there are other developers out there who have decided that they want to look smart. My usual work attire is: shirt, jumper, smart trousers, and smart shoes while the rest of the team tend to turn up in t-shirts, jeans and trainers.
I was asked recently why I always choose to come to work dressed smartly and my answer? "Look smart, think smart"
There is a signalling mechanism involved in dressing like a slob, every bit as loud as the signal you are trying to send out by dressing well.
In some contexts, putting on "whatever" sends the signal that I'm a slob, in other contexts it sends the signal that I have better / more important things to think about. In some contexts, dressing well sends out the signal that you are conscientious and trust-worthy, in other contexts it sends the signal that you are a vapid tool.
Your job is to tailor your message for the audience you are trying to reach.
I actually enjoy fashion and try to dress well when the time is right, but coming from a farming background, you dress like a slob because you're going to come home covered in dirt, grease and who knows what else. As such, dressing up for work, even if it is in an office, seems pretty silly to me. Work is about getting stuff done, not looking pretty. Save the dress up for social occasions outside of the workplace.
Clothing is a symbol, and shortcut. A guy in a nicely tailored suit in the business meeting shows that they care about details, are successful enough already to have the suit, etc, etc.
Shortcuts are important to social interactions, and outside physical labor, much of work is social interactions. (yes, even in software).
I agree, clothing is a symbol. Make sure the symbol you want to project is the one the people you are dealing with will take away is the same. A guy is a nicely tailored suit might be assumed to be just another hustler in a long line of hustlers to some people.
(For guys) Girls like guys in ties. Show me a young woman who doesn’t like a well-dress guy and I will show you a liar. This doesn’t mean putting on a suit every time you step out of your apartment, but just putting on clothes that make you look good.
For long-term relationships, men are just as picky as women. Many men probably don't want to date the kind of woman who will be impressed by wearing a long string of cloth that symbolically represents the cutting off of bloodflow to the brain. Rather, men want to signal to women that they're looking for someone who will look beyond the surface appearance of fancy clothes and towards something more substantial.
Show me a young woman who finds the wearing of a tie the marginal tipping point at which she'll sleep with a guy in a tie and I'll show you a young woman who probably makes me think, "I can do better over the long term." And, even over the short term, I'm not convinced the tie is all that important.
Pick any girl you like and show her some pictures of well dressed men wearing ties and then ask her if she thought about the level of blood flowing to their brains. She might think about other things, but that won't be one of them.
Clothes, by nature, are superficial. Trying to signal the deeper aspects of your character by your clothing is like trying to signal your literary tastes by the type of car you buy. That is not how it works.
The problem is that a lot of introverted and geeky types automatically associate the word "superficial" with (and only with) negatives. nhashem's post about the "clueless douchebag" is a good example. But the Venn diagram of people who wear suits and people who are superficial douchebags does not have nearly as much overlap as a lot of technically-minded people think it does.
Clothing simply doesn't tell you a lot about a person's character. However, a well dressed man or woman does signal that they are at least (1) able to afford nice clothing, (2) aware enough of their social environment to know that wearing such clothing leaves a positive impression on most people, (3) actually care about the impression they give others (which is not vain, but practical--the extreme opposite of this, not caring at all what others think about you--is not far from hubris) and (4) capable of taking care of themselves (getting rid of neckbeards doesn't hurt either).
For better or worse, people HAVE to judge you by what they first see: the superficial. You can't signal depth of personality by wearing or choosing not to wear a tie. It's really not that difficult to dress well for special occasions or professional events.
By dressing well you de-obligate others (fellow casual-dressing geeks excepted) to not immediately judge you when they see you. That gives you the opportunity to show them your personality and character when you actually get to speak to them. Words convey thoughts better than clothes. Clothing is just a daily-revised resume: it helps you get to that point.
Girls like guys who convey high social status. Depending on the context, that may be the guy in a suit, or it may be the guy who commands enough respect to dress however he wants. Consider musicians.
Exactly. I once worded at a document imaging "VAR" (except that we added serious value) where my programming was behind half our sales and enabled another large fraction.
But I also had an informal role in sales. Our VP of sales, very much a "suit" (but by no means technically illiterate) was also our "closer", i.e. he was very good at getting sales closed, whoever was the lead salesman. Every once in a while he'd take me to a meeting at a customer's site, me wearing my normal Oxford shirt, black jeans (not ratty) and gray New Balance 90x running shoes.
And I would talk with all the people the customer brought to the meeting, suits and geeks, and convince them that, yes, we can do this. Now, I'm pretty sure what I said was the most important part of that ^_^, but we were very cognizant that by not wearing a suit or even a tie I was signaling "geek cred" or whatever you want to call it. And it worked beautifully.
(Well, being an introvert I wasn't good for anything the next day, but that's a small price to pay for a mid to high six figure sale.)
Come to think of it, I can see another non-dress signal that this sent. In talking to the customer, I would take ownership of some or all of what we were selling to them (the stuff I'd program or sometimes build (I like to build computers occasionally)) and I'll tell them who had ownership of the other stuff and implicitly that they could do it. I also signaled that I was pledging to deliver to them the whole thing, whomever did what.
This also had a good backend/after the sale function: our salesmen never sold something we "geeks" didn't think we could deliver (and we were experienced enough not to get into trouble unless some third party software we hadn't had experience with yet failed on us).
Most days, I wear a t-shirt, basketball shorts, and Rainbow sandals to work. I'm a strong believer in wearing what's appropriate for the job. If I'm sitting in the office all day just coding, I don't need to be dressed nicely would rather be in something comfortable. If I'm meeting a client or going to an important business meeting, I damn well better be dressed well.
I hate ties and collared shirts in general. Any wedding or other formal event where I have to wear a suit, I'm constantly tugging at my neck and ripping off my tie within 5 seconds of getting back in my car to drive home after the event. I have no idea why Steve Jobs wore his ubiquitous turtleneck, but I'd like to think the fact that it was a lot more comfortable than a shirt and tie was one of the reasons.
Also if I'm at any sort of business or social event and someone is comes up to me and says something like: "Hey bro, I've been sitting on this great idea for a startup that I came with when I got my MBA at Oswego College, and I need a cofounder. Here, sign this NDA and I can tell you about it. Okay fine, don't sign the NDA, bro. It's called 'Fratastic.com,' it's like frat-oriented humor videos. It's gonna totally be the next youtube, it's ridiculous how much money it's gonna make, bro. I have the domain name and everything, I just need someone to actually do all the coding and I'll do the marketing, bro. How does 4% equity sound to you?"
... well, that person is almost always wearing a shirt, coat, and tie.
So why would I want to dress up beyond a t-shirt and jeans? It makes me uncomfortable, it has nothing to do with my production, technical or otherwise, and I'm less likely to be associated with the expensively educated clueless douchebag I described above.
Also, I know a lot of hackers who do go to the gym or otherwise keep active and look just fine in a t-shirt.
I think he's not necessarily arguing against t-shirt and jeans (despite his claim that the "days of t-shirt and hoodies are over" - this may be an east coast thing?), but that fit matters. Just because you're writing code doesn't mean you have to wear the ratty black t-shirt that you haven't washed in weeks and the ripped jeans that you bought in high school.
I know that, like with the "frat boy" you described, there are also stereotypes with the stereotypical programmer in the black shirt with the stupid text on it. How do those people make you feel?
This is true. I got a tailored suit and shirts for my wedding. It turns out that dress clothes can be quite comfortable if they fit you. When they're uncomfortable, it's largely because off the rack clothing is designed to be as generic as possible.
Hear hear. Potential metaphors:
1) The difference between healthy tasty food and unhealthy tasty food. "Oh nothing made with <ingredient X such as broccoli> tastes good". Chances are you've just not eaten it prepared well
2) The difference between fast food and a tasty home cooked meal. It takes time and effort to make a home cooked meal which tastes good (usually). Some people would rather just eat crap....it works for them.
Can't you just accept that some people simply don't like the look?
I own a a single silk tie and one nice dress shirt. I never wear them unless business needs require it. I don't even have a suit that still fits. I'm normally dressed in a T-shirt/collared shirt and either jeans or slacks -- IIRC, that's what I got married in! My clothes fit properly, they're simple, (I usually only wear solid colors) clean and comfortable. As far as I'm concerned, I'm well dressed, if informal. What exactly is wrong with that?
* You used the language of "better", not "different", of "honest self-improvement" and "challenging yourself", leaving implications hanging about people who decide not to do these things
* You literally say you can't see an "excuse" for developers not to dress differently.
* "You're building the future, so dress like it" (also note that in addition to being condescending, this is also an ineffective rhetorical strategy, since it begs the answer "we are dressing like it, dude")
* You argue that most hackers can't wear their single most common article of clothing because of body type.
You reference _Put This On_ twice in your post. _Put This On_ is, not to put too fine a point on it, a hobbyist blog. These are people who spend their weekends at thrift shops hunting for specific brands of clothes. It's also a blog that routinely finds ways to write takedowns of celebs who clearly spend time and effort dressing themselves; the blog advocates a distinctive style. I read and enjoy _Put This On_ (they're great writers), but you might concern yourself with the fact that you're effectively inflicting your hobby on other people.
In a previous life, I was a consultant/contractor at a very large enterprise. Despite the whole outfit being business casual, I wore a suit every day of the long span that I worked there.
It had a dramatic effect on the people that I worked with. It changed the conversation. It was at least faintly intimidating to those I worked with. Now, times are different, and we are
So there are some occasions that I would do it again. (I mean besides my nephew's wedding.) But amongst developers, it will send the wrong message. It will make you seem like one of the Ross Perot employees where imagination was selectively bred out.
Wearing a suit in most circumstances today will suggest the opposite of technical competence.
I disagree, at least for off-the-rack clothes. I have a 17.5" neck, and looking at me you wouldn't think I'm a no-neck football player. When I get a fitted shirt that is correct for my neck, it means that I've got to fold in at least 4" extra fabric around my waist. It seems that all clothes here in America assumes that some people are obese, and the rest of the population is merely fat.
I think the only way to get a dress shirt that's anywhere near the right size is to have it tailor-made.
There are plenty of companies like: http://www.indochino.com/ who will do "made to measure" for reasonable prices (these guys do sales for $50/shirt from time to time).
Look for slim fit shirts. I've heard good things about Brooks Brothers Extra Slim Fit shirts. H&M also makes good slim fitting shirts if you're on a budget. In American clothing lingo "extra slim fit" just means "not overweight."
Alternately, have your shirts taken in by a tailor. Most will do it for about $8-12, hardly an imposition for a developer who probably makes 2-3 times that per hour.
I'm told they last. With some brands you pay for the label, but with others you're paying for quality. For example, if you buy a pair of $300 shoes from Allen Edmonds and treat them properly you can expect to get 20 years out of them. The concept of disposable clothes is fairly new, and there are still a handful of companies who want to sell you a shirt that lasts.
Honest question. Are you saying "Holy Mackerel", because it's more than you expected or less? $80 for a nice shirt is really a pretty decent price, and many brands cost a lot more.
Dress for the situation but wear high quality clothes with the right fit. Just because its business attire doesn't mean its good clothing or that you're dressed well. Stand outside the local courthouse at lunch time and watch all the dumpy ill-fitting suits pour out and you'll see what I mean.
Fit and Quality are far more important than type of clothing.
Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but it sounds like what you are saying is that you would wear better fitting / more appropriate clothes, if only you would know how to do so. This is definitely a valid point, but I think it just shows that there is room for learning!
Embracing new things can be intimidating and downright scary. I remember the first time I heard about the benefits of lifting weights, I was apprehensive. I thought I could just call others 'meatheads' and use my advanced degrees in computer science as a shield. But life does not work like that; we must continuously improve ourselves, in all aspects of our lives: social, personal, physical, intellectual. Learning to buy clothes and put together outfits is just another part of growing up, just like learning how to work out, or how to apply design patterns to a programming project.
On a more practical note, there are tons of resources on the Internet that can help you with figuring out what 'nice' clothes are, or how to put together outfits. Maybe start with this: http://www.kinowear.com/blog/science-of-style-introducing-th... . Or check out reddit's r/malefashionadvice guides, or maybe go on styleforum.net, or try putthison.com . Good luck!
Yes, you should wear clothes that fit. For instance, if your suit is too large, it will make you look clumsy. Rather than buy a suit for 99 bucks, I'd rather buy a good quality shirt. Invest in quality, I guess.
Secondly, I think you should wear clothes that make yourself feel comfortable not just because they fit from a physical point of view. They should be appropriate to your persona, don't wear something that you are not.
As a developer, one of the things that got me into fashion is that it's something that CAN be learned and understood. For a long time I thought it was one of those things that you're either born with or not, but it's almost like a programming language.
Also, men's fashion has deep roots in tradition and function. For example, did you know that the little holes on wingtip shoes were originally added to allow the water drain out when you were walking in the country? That history is part of the reason that wingtips are considered "less formal" than plain-toe shoes - they were meant for wearing in the country. I find that kind of thing interesting, it's not all about superficiality.
If you're really interested in learning these things you're in a golden age, there are a ton of people sharing information and ideas about men's fashion online. http://reddit.com/malefashionadvice is a good starting point.
I've made countless attempts at fashion over the past 20 years, but it's always ended in failure. The fact that people say my father dresses poorly (and I can't tell why) has been incredibly discouraging.
Another poster mentioned that striped shirt with striped pants is a no-no. Why is that? Also, why are certain colors considered to "match" and others not? It seems completely arbitrary.
With patterns (stripes, plaid, checks, whatever), essentially you don't want to have more than one item with a similar-size pattern. So if you're wearing a shirt with small checks you can wear a tie with a big pattern (wide stripes, big plaid, etc.) but shouldn't wear a tie with a small pattern. Same goes for pants. The reason people advise against it is that it's visually distracting. Some people are bold and mix patterns but the safest bet is to just not wear more than one patterned item at a time.
In terms of colour matching, that's more of a personal thing. The biggest thing you need to remember is don't put a brown item next to a black item (ie brown shoes with black pants). This post on reddit covers the basics: http://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/ginj6/in_...
As with all aesthetic disciplines the rules are made to be broken, but it's good to know them first.
Ok, so he mentions "warm" and "cool" colors. Since I burn within 30 seconds of encountering the sun, I'm "cool".
Then he mentions seasonal colors, all of which he says go with "cool" complextion, which means any color goes with cool? I think I'm missing something here.
I had someone once tell me I should wear "autumn" colors, so all of my stuff is yellow, orange, and brown, but apparently that doesn't work (or at least not always... There are some browns that work and others that don't apparently).
My eyes shift between light blue, green, and grey depending on the season. So that means I should wear those colors, right? Are my eyes considered to be "contrasting" or "non-contrasting"? How do you even decide what colors are "contrasting" or not?
Some other things:
"Blue shirt + yellow tie is pretty classic, but disastrous if done wrong. A deeper,darker yellow more akin to goldenrod and a lighter blue is the ticket here." - Is there an official matrix of acceptable color combinations available somewhere?
"Anything black at all should be a rough texture." - And yet I see so many people wearing smooth textured black things. Are they just poorly dressed?
"Grey flannel trousers are the shit" - Umm... ok. Why?
"One madras element per fit." - What's a madras element? Google didn't turn up anything useful.
"Be cohesive and holistic. The whole should be better than the sum of the parts. Build an outfit, don’t just toss together flair." - Great, but HOW do you do that?
"Don’t be overly matchy. “Close enough” is more charming and better looking than fabric shade OCD." - So don't wear colors of similar shade, then?
You're overthinking it. First of all, fit is kind and much easier to understanding. Second, how often are you putting together complex colour profiles? There are a few combos that work great for pretty much anyone:
- Casual: Dark blue jeans, nearly any colour shirt, brown leather shoes
- Charcoal slacks, black leather shoes, nearly any colour shirt
- Khaki chinos, light blue shirt, brown shoes
>"Grey flannel trousers are the shit" - Umm... ok. Why?
Because epicviking thinks so. I happen to like them too, they've got a great texture and they go with almost anything. You can wear black or brown shoes with them and any colour dress shirt pretty much.
>"One madras element per fit." - What's a madras element? Google didn't turn up anything useful.
Madras is like a big plaid pattern.
>"Don’t be overly matchy. “Close enough” is more charming and better looking than fabric shade OCD." - So don't wear colors of similar shade, then?
Try to avoid it yeah.
>"Blue shirt + yellow tie is pretty classic, but disastrous if done wrong. A deeper,darker yellow more akin to goldenrod and a lighter blue is the ticket here." - Is there an official matrix of acceptable color combinations available somewhere?
Nope but if you're in a bind you can always google "what colour tie goes with a ____ shirt" and get some input.
If you want advice specific to yourself I'd post a picture of yourself on malefashionadvice, people there are very helpful (although you have to be okay with getting criticized, don't take it personally)
"First of all, fit is kind and much easier to understanding." - Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this.
"Second, how often are you putting together complex colour profiles?" - What would be considered a complex color profile? I have a closet with clothes of various colors, and I need to choose which shirt to wear with which pants/shorts/whatever. And I guess which shoes. So I know that not all reds are the same, and not all oranges are the same, and some reds go with some oranges. Problem is I don't know which is which; That's why I was asking about a color matrix.
Then there's patterns, which are even more dangerous, because it seems that most mixes of colors don't go at all with most other mixes of colors. I don't understand how people decide that certain ones "match" and others don't. If there's no color matrix to show what works and what doesn't, how can you even know?
>"First of all, fit is kind and much easier to understanding." - Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Probably because it made no sense! What I MEANT to type was "Fit is KING and much easier to understand."
Don't worry about a colour matrix, just try to buy clothes that go with everything. Nearly everything goes with dark blue jeans. Nearly everything goes with grey flannel slacks. Most things go with khaki chinos. I wouldn't try to match patterns but there's really no need to. How often do you really need to wear more than one patterned item at a time? Or even more than one coloured item at a time (not counting neutrals that go with everything like greys, beiges, browns, and really dark blues)
However, all of that aside none of it matters if your clothes fit poorly. Most 'bad dressers' are just wearing clothes that are far too big for them.
Yeah. Right now I'm just going with jeans since everyone says they go with everything. I guess I'll throw out the colored and patterned shorts since they're more trouble than they're worth.
"Fit is KING and much easier to understand." - Ok. I've ordered a copy of "Gentleman: A Timeless Guide to Fashion". So hopefully that will explain fit.
If your face is ashen gray and pale because you are a programmer who hates the sun with an icy passion, wearing a black shirt will only accentuate your paleness. If you wore a white shirt, people would notice it much less.
True, but the reality is that clothing as a technology has evolved over a long history, and some types of clothing are more likely to provide the "right fit" than others, particular for folks non-ideal body forms.
If you're in good shape, you can find t-shirts and jeans that look pretty good, but even that isn't easy. If you're out of shape, it's nearly impossible. Conversely, oxford shirts, sports jackets and trousers have about 100 years of evolution in providing a good fit for all kinds of men's body shapes, and they're also far more amenable to alteration by a tailor (does anyone actually tailor their t-shirt?)
Dressing differently is not necessarily dressing worse. Personally, when I see someone that obviously spent an extra 30-60 minutes getting ready in the morning to make themselves appear to be a professional, my first impression isn't "This guy is really professional". Instead, it is "what is this guy trying to hide?", or "does this guy think appearances are more important than results?" You really shouldn't assume you're making a good first impression because you're wearing a tie. It all depends on what the atmosphere of the workplace is.
I usually wear button-up shirts (and sometimes a sport coat) when going out or meeting with clients, but I am a firm believer that neckties cut off blood flow to the brain.
Also, slacks are just not comfortable. I much prefer a nice pair of dark, well-fitting, ironed jeans.
I don't often wear dress slacks, but when I do they feel more comfortable than my usual khakis or nice jeans. Hm...maybe I should wear those dress slacks more often.
Seriously. Good pairs of slacks are about as comfortable as you can get in any situation. Part of the genius is the variety in materials that go in. You have everything from lightweight, super breathable pants perfect for the summer (when jeans and even khakis become miserable in any humidity) to thicker wool trousers that will feel comfortable even in the middle of a blizzard.
That said, the peak of summer comfort is seersucker, but I won't even don that often because it does make you look like an anachronistic dandy.
"my talent supersedes my necessity to follow the guidelines of society" is a fairly mindless observation.
90% of the "guidelines of society" is cargo cult thinking. The best developers are wired to avoid this kind of thinking. With respect to clothing, they optimize for comfort and individuality rather than looks. There's no big political statement going on here (and I'd argue that dressing casually is a practical choice rather than a sign that one is misinformed, sloppy or lazy).
I'm writing code this morning in my pajamas. This evening I'll go out to a mixer and I'll throw on a nice sport coat. Clothes are tools, and you need the right tools for the job. This is why electricians and plumbers don't wear neckties.
It is trite to observe that hackers don’t like fancy clothes. Avi has learned that good clothes can actually be comfortable—the slacks that go with a business suit, for example, are really much more comfortable than blue jeans. And he has spent enough time with hackers to obtain the insight that is it not wearing suits that they object to, so much as getting them on. Which includes not only the donning process per se but also picking them out, maintaining them, and worrying whether they are still in style—this last being especially difficult for men who wear suits once every five years.
What does "dress better" mean, anyway? Once you start unpacking that phrase, you realize it has very little to do with optimizing functionality. It's not the same as "eat better" or "sleep better".
Imagine if someone showed up for a swim race in a suit and tie!
this post is just as short sighted as the quote it's arguing with. strange to see banter about what people are wearing in a place like this. wear whatever you want.
For myself, I due to an accident I had when a tutor / counsellor (door knob caught on the neck strap with id and sent me to the floor - lots of blood), I don't like wearing things around my neck including ties. I'm ok with slacks but not in the winter here because that's jeans weather and you never know when you might need to help someone out. Polos are ok and I mostly wear them instead of t-shirts.
I also grew up in an area where wearing a suit indicated that you were probably here to take money, land, or rights away. Suits were really the first sign not to trust that person. This belief is very hard to shake (along with the thought that anyone calling a noon meeting without providing food is sending a clear insulting message).
Because
a) There are usually negligible amounts of women around
b) I sweat in dress shirts which makes me less productive
c) I stay seated a lot changing posture constantly, which makes shirts look wrinkled
d) My job does not depend on how someone perceives me physically or socially so... Occam's razor.
It's not just developers, it happens with many people who work in science. I know a guy in a biology lab who only dresses in suits, and i 've heard his supervisor say that he sometimes can't give him real work to do for the fear of ruining his suit.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 226 ms ] threadWhat shoes have you found to work? I'm usually in nice jeans and a button-down shirt (no tie or blazer, most of the time), but haven't found shoes I really like. Thoughts?
For dressier shoes, I think everyone has their own preference.
http://www.novacas.com/
Since I've started using a standing desk really comfortable shoes like eccos are a must.
Super comfortable (almost as comfy as sneakers to me) and reasonably dressy. Not a true "dress shoe", but I've taken to wearing them nearly every day.
They're a great way to class up your typical "jeans + x" wardrobe.
Even at retail / discounted retail they're a good price for the quality.
You can sometimes get lucky and pick up a nice pair for cheap at Nordstrom Rack.
I eventually replaced them with Doc Marten Javan Kurts, which are larger, about as comfortable, and hopefully a bit more durable.
[1] http://www.redwingheritage.com/boots#&f=&m=/detail/1...
Edit - better link: http://www.b-74.de/out/pictures/1/red_wing_101_postman_oxfor...
You don't have a wear a 3-piece suit to be taken seriously. But when you wear faded/ratty jeans and a t-shirt it's hard to be taken seriously. Look at the pictures of the Great Depression: every man on the street waiting in line wore a suit. Not just business shirts, a suit. And these were guys like dock workers, laborers, &c.
I think it's because of a counter-cultural movement of preferring ratty, grungy, grimey-looking things. And, lets face it, people do judge you by what they see.
I don't want to look like a 20-something guy in ratty pants and a t-shirt with some obscene rockstar; I want to be taken seriously, just like I try to take others (even a weirdo in a t-shirt) seriously.
I think in the '30s a suit was just what men owned - a durable, practical, all purpose set of clothing. They'd wear the same to the beach, because that's what they had. It probably cost them a lot of money, and owning any more clothes would cost a lot more. It didn't mean the same thing it does now.
And from a PG essay http://www.paulgraham.com/bubble.html
"And what would be wrong would be that how one presented oneself counted more than the quality of one's ideas. That's the problem with formality. Dressing up is not so much bad in itself. The problem is the receptor it binds to: dressing up is inevitably a substitute for good ideas. It is no coincidence that technically inept business types are known as "suits."
I thought that term originated back when working people had to wear uniforms, and that it was more of a class separation thing.
This is perhaps a little strong, but I did think about this when I read this line from the original post:
You are building the future, so dress like it.
No. Engineering is about the things, not the people. Our goal is to draw attention to the work, not the worker.
There's a reason why Steve Jobs became famous for always wearing the same, very neutral uniform on stage. He does this because it really isn't about him. It's about the product. The product is the star.
Engineers dress like stagehands because that is our aspiration. The message we're sending is: Don't watch me. Watch the product. I'm focused on the product and you should be as well.
However you dress, you should look good, if you're confident in t-shirts and khakis presenting to a room full of suits then do it, if you're more confident in a suit then wear a suit.
Casual workdays used to be an employer granted privilege, but in this day and age, casual everyday is an entitlement in a lot of companies. The definition of "workplace casual" has become more lax in the past 20 years too.
Being middle aged myself, I'm not a fan of the shift towards casual dress every day, but times change, and that's just how it is.
Maybe you underestimate the importance of feeling like you fit in. Being ostracized from your group is painful and can even lead to being left out of new information, like the up-and-coming programming languages, etc. It can lead to people saying, "He's not a team player" and it actually affecting your job.
Another problem is that you've defined 'better' as you see it, and not as your peers see it. You think you're better than them, but you aren't really. It's all an ego trip for you.
I think for these "dressing up when their social situation doesn't really demand it" people, dressing up is a hobby. They'd (a) like it people shared their hobby, because that's more fun, and they'd (b) like not to be judged based on that hobby, which is what happens to developers who show up in ties.
That said, I'm not against people dressing however they want. I don't roll into the office looking like a slob, but I definitely don't obsess about my outfit for the day.
I obsess more about the thought and effort put into the products I'm creating..
My favorite part of the Zucks mythos is the flip-flops. What he wore didn't matter, because what he and Facebook were doing was so amazing.
Most people just happen to want to wear t-shirts, shorts, and flip-flops.
Yeah. My problem with what you're saying is that if you're putting out great code, you can probably wear whatever the f you want.
But if "good" represents average, and you tell any competent employer that you can wear whatever the f you want, you're just telling him/her that you've got an attitude problem.
i'll take someone with that attitude problem over a doormat any day.
If you're just average, you can't insist on rock star treatment.
And what I was trying to say is that a rock star (insert profession here) is more likely to be able to get away with saying "I'm going to wear whatever the f--- I want to wear" than someone who is just good, especially in a workplace where wearing jeans and t-shirts is not an accepted norm. And that's usually the case outside of the tech startup and creative worlds.
Suits and stuff are fine for everyone else, maybe even for developers at BigCo Inc. But, the OP was in the context of YCNYC...
I was asked recently why I always choose to come to work dressed smartly and my answer? "Look smart, think smart"
In some contexts, putting on "whatever" sends the signal that I'm a slob, in other contexts it sends the signal that I have better / more important things to think about. In some contexts, dressing well sends out the signal that you are conscientious and trust-worthy, in other contexts it sends the signal that you are a vapid tool.
Your job is to tailor your message for the audience you are trying to reach.
Shortcuts are important to social interactions, and outside physical labor, much of work is social interactions. (yes, even in software).
(For guys) Girls like guys in ties. Show me a young woman who doesn’t like a well-dress guy and I will show you a liar. This doesn’t mean putting on a suit every time you step out of your apartment, but just putting on clothes that make you look good.
For long-term relationships, men are just as picky as women. Many men probably don't want to date the kind of woman who will be impressed by wearing a long string of cloth that symbolically represents the cutting off of bloodflow to the brain. Rather, men want to signal to women that they're looking for someone who will look beyond the surface appearance of fancy clothes and towards something more substantial.
Show me a young woman who finds the wearing of a tie the marginal tipping point at which she'll sleep with a guy in a tie and I'll show you a young woman who probably makes me think, "I can do better over the long term." And, even over the short term, I'm not convinced the tie is all that important.
Pick any girl you like and show her some pictures of well dressed men wearing ties and then ask her if she thought about the level of blood flowing to their brains. She might think about other things, but that won't be one of them.
Clothes, by nature, are superficial. Trying to signal the deeper aspects of your character by your clothing is like trying to signal your literary tastes by the type of car you buy. That is not how it works.
The problem is that a lot of introverted and geeky types automatically associate the word "superficial" with (and only with) negatives. nhashem's post about the "clueless douchebag" is a good example. But the Venn diagram of people who wear suits and people who are superficial douchebags does not have nearly as much overlap as a lot of technically-minded people think it does.
Clothing simply doesn't tell you a lot about a person's character. However, a well dressed man or woman does signal that they are at least (1) able to afford nice clothing, (2) aware enough of their social environment to know that wearing such clothing leaves a positive impression on most people, (3) actually care about the impression they give others (which is not vain, but practical--the extreme opposite of this, not caring at all what others think about you--is not far from hubris) and (4) capable of taking care of themselves (getting rid of neckbeards doesn't hurt either).
For better or worse, people HAVE to judge you by what they first see: the superficial. You can't signal depth of personality by wearing or choosing not to wear a tie. It's really not that difficult to dress well for special occasions or professional events.
By dressing well you de-obligate others (fellow casual-dressing geeks excepted) to not immediately judge you when they see you. That gives you the opportunity to show them your personality and character when you actually get to speak to them. Words convey thoughts better than clothes. Clothing is just a daily-revised resume: it helps you get to that point.
But I also had an informal role in sales. Our VP of sales, very much a "suit" (but by no means technically illiterate) was also our "closer", i.e. he was very good at getting sales closed, whoever was the lead salesman. Every once in a while he'd take me to a meeting at a customer's site, me wearing my normal Oxford shirt, black jeans (not ratty) and gray New Balance 90x running shoes.
And I would talk with all the people the customer brought to the meeting, suits and geeks, and convince them that, yes, we can do this. Now, I'm pretty sure what I said was the most important part of that ^_^, but we were very cognizant that by not wearing a suit or even a tie I was signaling "geek cred" or whatever you want to call it. And it worked beautifully.
(Well, being an introvert I wasn't good for anything the next day, but that's a small price to pay for a mid to high six figure sale.)
Come to think of it, I can see another non-dress signal that this sent. In talking to the customer, I would take ownership of some or all of what we were selling to them (the stuff I'd program or sometimes build (I like to build computers occasionally)) and I'll tell them who had ownership of the other stuff and implicitly that they could do it. I also signaled that I was pledging to deliver to them the whole thing, whomever did what.
This also had a good backend/after the sale function: our salesmen never sold something we "geeks" didn't think we could deliver (and we were experienced enough not to get into trouble unless some third party software we hadn't had experience with yet failed on us).
Got it in one.
Also if I'm at any sort of business or social event and someone is comes up to me and says something like: "Hey bro, I've been sitting on this great idea for a startup that I came with when I got my MBA at Oswego College, and I need a cofounder. Here, sign this NDA and I can tell you about it. Okay fine, don't sign the NDA, bro. It's called 'Fratastic.com,' it's like frat-oriented humor videos. It's gonna totally be the next youtube, it's ridiculous how much money it's gonna make, bro. I have the domain name and everything, I just need someone to actually do all the coding and I'll do the marketing, bro. How does 4% equity sound to you?"
... well, that person is almost always wearing a shirt, coat, and tie.
So why would I want to dress up beyond a t-shirt and jeans? It makes me uncomfortable, it has nothing to do with my production, technical or otherwise, and I'm less likely to be associated with the expensively educated clueless douchebag I described above.
Also, I know a lot of hackers who do go to the gym or otherwise keep active and look just fine in a t-shirt.
I know that, like with the "frat boy" you described, there are also stereotypes with the stereotypical programmer in the black shirt with the stupid text on it. How do those people make you feel?
I own a a single silk tie and one nice dress shirt. I never wear them unless business needs require it. I don't even have a suit that still fits. I'm normally dressed in a T-shirt/collared shirt and either jeans or slacks -- IIRC, that's what I got married in! My clothes fit properly, they're simple, (I usually only wear solid colors) clean and comfortable. As far as I'm concerned, I'm well dressed, if informal. What exactly is wrong with that?
* You used the language of "better", not "different", of "honest self-improvement" and "challenging yourself", leaving implications hanging about people who decide not to do these things
* You literally say you can't see an "excuse" for developers not to dress differently.
* "You're building the future, so dress like it" (also note that in addition to being condescending, this is also an ineffective rhetorical strategy, since it begs the answer "we are dressing like it, dude")
* You argue that most hackers can't wear their single most common article of clothing because of body type.
You reference _Put This On_ twice in your post. _Put This On_ is, not to put too fine a point on it, a hobbyist blog. These are people who spend their weekends at thrift shops hunting for specific brands of clothes. It's also a blog that routinely finds ways to write takedowns of celebs who clearly spend time and effort dressing themselves; the blog advocates a distinctive style. I read and enjoy _Put This On_ (they're great writers), but you might concern yourself with the fact that you're effectively inflicting your hobby on other people.
It had a dramatic effect on the people that I worked with. It changed the conversation. It was at least faintly intimidating to those I worked with. Now, times are different, and we are
So there are some occasions that I would do it again. (I mean besides my nephew's wedding.) But amongst developers, it will send the wrong message. It will make you seem like one of the Ross Perot employees where imagination was selectively bred out.
Wearing a suit in most circumstances today will suggest the opposite of technical competence.
I disagree, at least for off-the-rack clothes. I have a 17.5" neck, and looking at me you wouldn't think I'm a no-neck football player. When I get a fitted shirt that is correct for my neck, it means that I've got to fold in at least 4" extra fabric around my waist. It seems that all clothes here in America assumes that some people are obese, and the rest of the population is merely fat.
I think the only way to get a dress shirt that's anywhere near the right size is to have it tailor-made.
Alternately, have your shirts taken in by a tailor. Most will do it for about $8-12, hardly an imposition for a developer who probably makes 2-3 times that per hour.
Holy mackerel! They're $79.50 each!
The way i understood it, that was his point as well. Unless you mean to say "...who don't go to the gym..."
Dress for the situation but wear high quality clothes with the right fit. Just because its business attire doesn't mean its good clothing or that you're dressed well. Stand outside the local courthouse at lunch time and watch all the dumpy ill-fitting suits pour out and you'll see what I mean.
Fit and Quality are far more important than type of clothing.
One of the worst fashion sins are cheap ill-fitting 99$ suits. Man...
My recommendation guys, buy some nice shoes and a coat.
I'm still mystified as to how people decide that one piece of clothing "goes" with another, or looks bad with such-and-such.
Embracing new things can be intimidating and downright scary. I remember the first time I heard about the benefits of lifting weights, I was apprehensive. I thought I could just call others 'meatheads' and use my advanced degrees in computer science as a shield. But life does not work like that; we must continuously improve ourselves, in all aspects of our lives: social, personal, physical, intellectual. Learning to buy clothes and put together outfits is just another part of growing up, just like learning how to work out, or how to apply design patterns to a programming project.
On a more practical note, there are tons of resources on the Internet that can help you with figuring out what 'nice' clothes are, or how to put together outfits. Maybe start with this: http://www.kinowear.com/blog/science-of-style-introducing-th... . Or check out reddit's r/malefashionadvice guides, or maybe go on styleforum.net, or try putthison.com . Good luck!
Yes, you should wear clothes that fit. For instance, if your suit is too large, it will make you look clumsy. Rather than buy a suit for 99 bucks, I'd rather buy a good quality shirt. Invest in quality, I guess.
Secondly, I think you should wear clothes that make yourself feel comfortable not just because they fit from a physical point of view. They should be appropriate to your persona, don't wear something that you are not.
Also, men's fashion has deep roots in tradition and function. For example, did you know that the little holes on wingtip shoes were originally added to allow the water drain out when you were walking in the country? That history is part of the reason that wingtips are considered "less formal" than plain-toe shoes - they were meant for wearing in the country. I find that kind of thing interesting, it's not all about superficiality.
If you're really interested in learning these things you're in a golden age, there are a ton of people sharing information and ideas about men's fashion online. http://reddit.com/malefashionadvice is a good starting point.
I've made countless attempts at fashion over the past 20 years, but it's always ended in failure. The fact that people say my father dresses poorly (and I can't tell why) has been incredibly discouraging.
Another poster mentioned that striped shirt with striped pants is a no-no. Why is that? Also, why are certain colors considered to "match" and others not? It seems completely arbitrary.
In terms of colour matching, that's more of a personal thing. The biggest thing you need to remember is don't put a brown item next to a black item (ie brown shoes with black pants). This post on reddit covers the basics: http://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/ginj6/in_...
As with all aesthetic disciplines the rules are made to be broken, but it's good to know them first.
Ok, so he mentions "warm" and "cool" colors. Since I burn within 30 seconds of encountering the sun, I'm "cool".
Then he mentions seasonal colors, all of which he says go with "cool" complextion, which means any color goes with cool? I think I'm missing something here.
I had someone once tell me I should wear "autumn" colors, so all of my stuff is yellow, orange, and brown, but apparently that doesn't work (or at least not always... There are some browns that work and others that don't apparently).
My eyes shift between light blue, green, and grey depending on the season. So that means I should wear those colors, right? Are my eyes considered to be "contrasting" or "non-contrasting"? How do you even decide what colors are "contrasting" or not?
Some other things:
"Blue shirt + yellow tie is pretty classic, but disastrous if done wrong. A deeper,darker yellow more akin to goldenrod and a lighter blue is the ticket here." - Is there an official matrix of acceptable color combinations available somewhere?
"Anything black at all should be a rough texture." - And yet I see so many people wearing smooth textured black things. Are they just poorly dressed?
"Grey flannel trousers are the shit" - Umm... ok. Why?
"One madras element per fit." - What's a madras element? Google didn't turn up anything useful.
"Be cohesive and holistic. The whole should be better than the sum of the parts. Build an outfit, don’t just toss together flair." - Great, but HOW do you do that?
"Don’t be overly matchy. “Close enough” is more charming and better looking than fabric shade OCD." - So don't wear colors of similar shade, then?
- Casual: Dark blue jeans, nearly any colour shirt, brown leather shoes - Charcoal slacks, black leather shoes, nearly any colour shirt - Khaki chinos, light blue shirt, brown shoes
>"Grey flannel trousers are the shit" - Umm... ok. Why? Because epicviking thinks so. I happen to like them too, they've got a great texture and they go with almost anything. You can wear black or brown shoes with them and any colour dress shirt pretty much.
>"One madras element per fit." - What's a madras element? Google didn't turn up anything useful. Madras is like a big plaid pattern.
>"Don’t be overly matchy. “Close enough” is more charming and better looking than fabric shade OCD." - So don't wear colors of similar shade, then? Try to avoid it yeah.
>"Blue shirt + yellow tie is pretty classic, but disastrous if done wrong. A deeper,darker yellow more akin to goldenrod and a lighter blue is the ticket here." - Is there an official matrix of acceptable color combinations available somewhere? Nope but if you're in a bind you can always google "what colour tie goes with a ____ shirt" and get some input.
If you want advice specific to yourself I'd post a picture of yourself on malefashionadvice, people there are very helpful (although you have to be okay with getting criticized, don't take it personally)
"Second, how often are you putting together complex colour profiles?" - What would be considered a complex color profile? I have a closet with clothes of various colors, and I need to choose which shirt to wear with which pants/shorts/whatever. And I guess which shoes. So I know that not all reds are the same, and not all oranges are the same, and some reds go with some oranges. Problem is I don't know which is which; That's why I was asking about a color matrix.
Then there's patterns, which are even more dangerous, because it seems that most mixes of colors don't go at all with most other mixes of colors. I don't understand how people decide that certain ones "match" and others don't. If there's no color matrix to show what works and what doesn't, how can you even know?
Probably because it made no sense! What I MEANT to type was "Fit is KING and much easier to understand."
Don't worry about a colour matrix, just try to buy clothes that go with everything. Nearly everything goes with dark blue jeans. Nearly everything goes with grey flannel slacks. Most things go with khaki chinos. I wouldn't try to match patterns but there's really no need to. How often do you really need to wear more than one patterned item at a time? Or even more than one coloured item at a time (not counting neutrals that go with everything like greys, beiges, browns, and really dark blues)
However, all of that aside none of it matters if your clothes fit poorly. Most 'bad dressers' are just wearing clothes that are far too big for them.
"Fit is KING and much easier to understand." - Ok. I've ordered a copy of "Gentleman: A Timeless Guide to Fashion". So hopefully that will explain fit.
If your face is ashen gray and pale because you are a programmer who hates the sun with an icy passion, wearing a black shirt will only accentuate your paleness. If you wore a white shirt, people would notice it much less.
If you're in good shape, you can find t-shirts and jeans that look pretty good, but even that isn't easy. If you're out of shape, it's nearly impossible. Conversely, oxford shirts, sports jackets and trousers have about 100 years of evolution in providing a good fit for all kinds of men's body shapes, and they're also far more amenable to alteration by a tailor (does anyone actually tailor their t-shirt?)
Also, slacks are just not comfortable. I much prefer a nice pair of dark, well-fitting, ironed jeans.
I don't often wear dress slacks, but when I do they feel more comfortable than my usual khakis or nice jeans. Hm...maybe I should wear those dress slacks more often.
Oh yeah, dry clean only.
That said, the peak of summer comfort is seersucker, but I won't even don that often because it does make you look like an anachronistic dandy.
90% of the "guidelines of society" is cargo cult thinking. The best developers are wired to avoid this kind of thinking. With respect to clothing, they optimize for comfort and individuality rather than looks. There's no big political statement going on here (and I'd argue that dressing casually is a practical choice rather than a sign that one is misinformed, sloppy or lazy).
I'm writing code this morning in my pajamas. This evening I'll go out to a mixer and I'll throw on a nice sport coat. Clothes are tools, and you need the right tools for the job. This is why electricians and plumbers don't wear neckties.
It is trite to observe that hackers don’t like fancy clothes. Avi has learned that good clothes can actually be comfortable—the slacks that go with a business suit, for example, are really much more comfortable than blue jeans. And he has spent enough time with hackers to obtain the insight that is it not wearing suits that they object to, so much as getting them on. Which includes not only the donning process per se but also picking them out, maintaining them, and worrying whether they are still in style—this last being especially difficult for men who wear suits once every five years.
Imagine if someone showed up for a swim race in a suit and tie!
"You are building the future, so dress like it."
If we're building the future, we'll build one where we can dress how we like.
"Even Zuck has been sporting a suit more and more. He’s the last person that needs to impress someone based on how he dresses."
Tell that to his shareholders.
"It’s a “my talent supersedes my necessity to follow the guidelines of society.”"
If people like you are going to speak the way you do on behalf of society, maybe this society thing isn't for me.
I also grew up in an area where wearing a suit indicated that you were probably here to take money, land, or rights away. Suits were really the first sign not to trust that person. This belief is very hard to shake (along with the thought that anyone calling a noon meeting without providing food is sending a clear insulting message).
I hated my time in places that required a suit and tie and believe that culture is corrupting ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3015969 ).
b) I sweat in dress shirts which makes me less productive
c) I stay seated a lot changing posture constantly, which makes shirts look wrinkled
d) My job does not depend on how someone perceives me physically or socially so... Occam's razor.
It's not just developers, it happens with many people who work in science. I know a guy in a biology lab who only dresses in suits, and i 've heard his supervisor say that he sometimes can't give him real work to do for the fear of ruining his suit.