I use Ergodox Infinity keyboard and I'd suggest: separate left and right hand boards, columnar or ortholinear layout, thumb clusters, mechanical keys and profiled keycaps.
Maybe a good question to start with is "how much are you planning to spend"?
Like smoyer said, I strongly suggest split hands. Way more ergonomical. I have two Mistel MD770's, one or work and one for home. I really like the keyboards but I think as long you get something that splits you'll be fine.
If you’re in the market for an ergo keyboard, I’ve used and liked the Kinesis Freestyle for years now. It’s a fully split keyboard with a staggered layout - I use it in a tented setup, and the ergonomics have been good while it’s similar enough to regular keyboards to not make switching back and forth too difficult.
I’ve tried the mechanical (red switch) version, but actually prefer their membrane version because it’s quieter and I like the tactile feedback better (I haven’t tried the brown/blue switch models though).
I've had my Leopold FC660C for I think 5 years now, it was very expensive but completely worth it IMHO. Capacitive sensing is just so much better than electrical contacts, due to the programmed in hysteresis, chattering just isn't a thing with Topre. I put the Hasu controller in it too and made my own custom layout with QMK.
If I was looking at getting a new keyboard I would also consider hall effect and optical key switch design keyboards.
You might get some suggestions for the Kinesis Advantage 2. It's a great keyboard, but keep in mind it's very different from other keyboards and could take a couple weeks to get used to before you're back up to your full productivity. I think the best approach for the Advantage is to just stick with it and fight the urge to even temporarily switch back to a regular keyboard.
As an owner of an Advantage 2, I wholeheartedly agree. I was worried that I'd lose my ability to type on a normal keyboard after I became accustomed to the ortholinear layout of the Kinesis (as some posts online suggested), but I'm typing this message on my MacBook Pro's keyboard.
That said, there's nothing more comfortable and pleasant to type on for the whole day than my Kinesis keyboard. Well worth the $350 price tag and the learning curve.
If you can return to full productivity two weeks after switching to an Advantage 2 then you are way more skilled than I am :) I'd say I hit about oh 80% proficiency after a couple weeks. It took me many months for the keyboard to be fully second nature for me.
I very much like my Lenovo thinkpad laptop keyboard. I like the compact layout, proportion and sturdiness of it. Do you think I’d be happy with the Keychron?
That is indeed very compact. I like compact keyboards too. You didn't mention gaming so I'm going to assume you don't care too much about that.
If you live near a Best Buy, pay one a visit, they usually have keyboards on display which you can type on. I suggest trying at least the following:
1. Logitech MX Keys Mini. This provides a very nice laptop-like typing experience.
2. Logitech G815/915. This is a "gaming" keyboard with low profile mechanical clicky ("blue") switches.
Based on that, you can decide if you care about mechanical switches or not. If you really like the low-profile clicky feeling, the Logitech are great, but wide compared to your Thinkpad, and also expensive (>$200). Keychron has narrower versions with lots of customizability. There's some other vendors too, here's a list [1].
If you prefer the laptop-like typing experience, the MX Keys and the new Mini variant are very popular, for a good reason.
You’re in luck! There are a number of USB Lenovo thinkpad keyboards with track points, and sometimes trackpads in full and ten key-less formats. (I believe it’s also fairly straightforward to convert a ‘replacement’ x220/x230 keyboard to USB).
Here’s a couple of model numbers to get started:
FRU 0B47221
FRU 40K9427
I love the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S (topre) https://youtu.be/CmvB7FOgyxk not for everyone. I like torpe switches. Reminds me of the old apple iie keyboard (alps switch); probably my favorite keyboard ever https://youtu.be/zwgas6McpoQ
I’ve been using corne (40% ortho split) for software development for over a year now. It is most definitely the way to go. Having common symbols ()<>{} be on a layer on the home row is so fantastic for typing speed.
That makes sense. I recently got a keyboard with configurable layers, but I'm using mostly standard qwerty to start out, adding custom bindings one at a time. I think I'll try out your suggestion, would you mind sharing more details of your configuration?
3 months on Corne and Colemak. Dont attempt if you just started a new job, dont ask me how I know.
The only benefit for me is I started to appreciate keyboard macros (built in/QMK, or AHK), IDE custom snippets, and gaming mouse macros (navigation mainly eg: goto implementation/definition, booarks, etc).
It made me a slightly better dev because I now take advantage of these features
100% this, I have a zsa moonlander and it was one of the best purchases I ever made. The adaptation period was really frustrating, but I can’t see myself ever going back to a traditional keyboard.
Good entry point for people coming from the "traditional" keyboard world -- particularly those who don't expect to invest a lot of time in things like learning radically different layouts, heavy use & customization of layers, etc.
Ortho makes sense if you touch type. I sort of hover above the keys using 3 digits on each hand to do most of the typing (with supplemental pinky usage, but never ring finger). It isn't Mavis Beacon approved, but I can bang out about 70wpms this way.
When I got an Ortho keyboard, I tried to learn to touch type, but it was quite slow. Eventually I learned to hover-type on that too. I love the look and sound, but not much more than that.
The biggest problem with using an ortholinear keyboard is that sometimes I want to just work on my laptop and for a while My typing speed on a regular qwerty keyboard slowed way down and had a lot more typos. Now I can mostly go back and forth.
This is my suggestion too. I had a Kinesis, switched to keyboardio and am really happy with it. There is a learning curve, and you feel quite unproductive at first, but you learn quickly and once comfortable, they are better than anything else I've tried.
If you just want a great keyboard and don't want to learn a new layout or form factor and don't want to build your own I present the best mechanical keyboard.
[1] FILCO Majestouch Ninja - Cherry MX Browns
Make it yours with a nice pack of keycaps.[2]
If you're not sure which Cherry MX switches to get read more about them here [3] and search for comparisons. I hate reds. I love blues. My wife's ears hate my blues. Now I use browns.
I have owned many many keyboards and built a couple too and I honestly believe that FILCO is the best consumer mechanical board or at the very least my favorite :)
EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
> EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
And if you're right-handed they move the mouse further away, which is terrible for RSI.
The Filco is a fine keyboard indeed. Good recommendation.
+1 to FILCO, just want to add: Pick one with the letters printed on the sides of keycaps, not on top. This way they last longer. (BTW, my favorite switches are black, then red, I hate browns).
Note that for people who are used to and prefer the short travel of laptop keyboards, they should check out mechanical keyboards with choc switches rather than the much longer travel MX switches.
I like the 96% layouts (100 keys) - similar size to a TKL, but still has the option of using the number pad. I much prefer typing lots of numbers with the number pad, and I'm no accountant or mathematician.
- Lower compression depth/lower pressure per key press.
- Lower noise.
- Lower cost.
- Increased reliability.
- Plug and play.
Amazon Basics and Dell both make good keyboards in this category but Amazon Basics' keyboard no longer has the dedicated Calculator button. I buy these keyboards on purpose and legitimately don't understand people who WANT a Model-M clone, I typed on those for years, terrible keyboards. Just loud, attract grime, and cause hand fatigue.
PS - Although the trendy tide could be turning with MX LOW PROFILE gaining some interest.
edit: Maybe check out the CHERRY Stream Keyboard for $30 on Amazon (US).
I have a few Vortex Pok3rs (60% with brown, red, and clear cherry switches) and love them.
It’s not as important now, but one thing I really like about them is how portable they are. If I have to travel to work at a client site or visit an office, a Pok3r is trivial to bring along.
Once you’re really used to a semi-exotic keyboard, it’s really frustrating when they’re not available.
I really like the Vortex Race 3 as a gaming keyboard with some Kailh Speed Silver linear switches. It has almost no bezels and the layout has everything but a numpad, I love boards that don't take up more desk space than is absolutely needed.
I've been using a CODE keyboard [0] for the last five years or so. Been pretty happy overall, the only complaint I could have is that some of the paint is wearing off on well used keys.
It is a traditional layout, no split, nothing like that. But I have personally found that I only get sore wrists and fingers when I let the room temperature get too low, so I keep it warm and my keyboard choice seems to have no effect.
I too have been using the CODE keyboard. Got mine in 2015. Been very happy with it. I chose the 87-key board with Cherry MX Green switches for their IBM Model M feel and sound.
Warning: you're about to jump down a massive rabbit hole!
If you want a standard keyboard, DAS and WASD offer some good options.
If Ergonomics are important and you don't mind the learning curve, go for split. The Ergodox EZ is a great option here. I have 2, one for my work desk and one for home, been using them for a few years now and haven't looked back.
Whatever you do, go with a mechanical keyboard. Purely subjective, but you really can't beat the tactility of it.
I have NEVER been more excited to spend 22 hours a day coding than on this keyboard: Code V3 87-Key Illuminated Mechanical Keyboard - White LED Backlighting, Black Case (Cherry MX Green)
Good luck in your hunting (and in my case pecking)
I'm about 11 years into a variable-weighted white-gray Topre Realforce, and I don't think about keyboards anymore. I'd get either a variable-weighted or 45g Topre.
I can recommend the Kinesis Advantage too, but I later sold mine -- weight lifting did an even better job of eliminating ergonomic problems, as did piano practice once before, and I think it's generally a better strategy to not need ergonomic devices.
Excercising your wrists and arms is absolutely one of the best ways to avoid RSI in my experience. I think the advantages of using ergonomic layouts are perhaps overstated in some cases, I find that if I allow my hands to 'float' a little and move around more freely my fingers find the keys easily, and I don't need to worry about planting my wrists in a fixed position and having them at an uncomfortable angle.
I imagine ergonomic designs probably makes the most sense for people that do large volumes of typing with high WPM. For me I just really like the compact layout of my FC660C, small boards allow me to have a mouse either side, swapping mouse hands is another great way to avoid RSI.
I think I would have liked the FC660C. I once had an HHKB2, but using the Fn modifier for arrows was too much.
I have to say, I found the Kinesis Advantage to be fantastic. It really did work, solving my ergonomic problems, wonderfully and very quickly. The need for it did depend on the volume of typing -- back when I used it, I switched off of it, but then had to switch back after some days with more typing.
100 comments
[ 2.4 ms ] story [ 172 ms ] threadMaybe a good question to start with is "how much are you planning to spend"?
Also like the K3, but not nearly as much.
I have the medium-clicky keys on the K2.
I’ve tried the mechanical (red switch) version, but actually prefer their membrane version because it’s quieter and I like the tactile feedback better (I haven’t tried the brown/blue switch models though).
If I was looking at getting a new keyboard I would also consider hall effect and optical key switch design keyboards.
That said, there's nothing more comfortable and pleasant to type on for the whole day than my Kinesis keyboard. Well worth the $350 price tag and the learning curve.
Some of the features to consider (by no means exhaustive):
1. Width: 60%, TKL, or full-size
2. Height: Normal or low-profile
3. Key layout: Ergonomic, ortho, staggered
4. OS-friendly layout: Mac or Windows
5. Switches: clicky, tactile, linear
6. Misc: RGB, programmable keys, wireless
Personally I like 60% low-profile clicky keyboards. I use a Keychron K7 at home and MX Keys Mini at work.
If you live near a Best Buy, pay one a visit, they usually have keyboards on display which you can type on. I suggest trying at least the following:
1. Logitech MX Keys Mini. This provides a very nice laptop-like typing experience.
2. Logitech G815/915. This is a "gaming" keyboard with low profile mechanical clicky ("blue") switches.
Based on that, you can decide if you care about mechanical switches or not. If you really like the low-profile clicky feeling, the Logitech are great, but wide compared to your Thinkpad, and also expensive (>$200). Keychron has narrower versions with lots of customizability. There's some other vendors too, here's a list [1].
If you prefer the laptop-like typing experience, the MX Keys and the new Mini variant are very popular, for a good reason.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hotiws...
I had to learn touch typing, but it was well invested time.
The only benefit for me is I started to appreciate keyboard macros (built in/QMK, or AHK), IDE custom snippets, and gaming mouse macros (navigation mainly eg: goto implementation/definition, booarks, etc).
It made me a slightly better dev because I now take advantage of these features
When I got an Ortho keyboard, I tried to learn to touch type, but it was quite slow. Eventually I learned to hover-type on that too. I love the look and sound, but not much more than that.
The biggest problem with using an ortholinear keyboard is that sometimes I want to just work on my laptop and for a while My typing speed on a regular qwerty keyboard slowed way down and had a lot more typos. Now I can mostly go back and forth.
edit: meant Kinesis
It can connect 2 devices and support both Bluetooth and Unifying.
Most important it has numpad with a compact size.
[1] FILCO Majestouch Ninja - Cherry MX Browns
Make it yours with a nice pack of keycaps.[2]
If you're not sure which Cherry MX switches to get read more about them here [3] and search for comparisons. I hate reds. I love blues. My wife's ears hate my blues. Now I use browns.
I have owned many many keyboards and built a couple too and I honestly believe that FILCO is the best consumer mechanical board or at the very least my favorite :)
[1] https://www.amazon.com/FILCO-Majestouch-Ninja-Cherry-Keyboar...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cherry+mx+keycaps
[3] https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/cherry-mx-switches-at-a-glan...
EDIT: You notice I picked a TKL (10 key less) unless your an accountant or mathematician num pads are highly overrated and take up valuable desk real estate.
EDIT: Check our https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ for inspiration ... but beware ... it can turn into a bit of an addiction.
Good Luck!
And if you're right-handed they move the mouse further away, which is terrible for RSI.
The Filco is a fine keyboard indeed. Good recommendation.
What’s bad about it?
- Chiclet Keyboard
- Inexpensive
- Wired
- Full QUERTY layout (inc. number pad).
- Maybe a dedicated calculator button.
- No LEDs/special features/special software.
Advantage including:
- Lower compression depth/lower pressure per key press.
- Lower noise.
- Lower cost.
- Increased reliability.
- Plug and play.
Amazon Basics and Dell both make good keyboards in this category but Amazon Basics' keyboard no longer has the dedicated Calculator button. I buy these keyboards on purpose and legitimately don't understand people who WANT a Model-M clone, I typed on those for years, terrible keyboards. Just loud, attract grime, and cause hand fatigue.
PS - Although the trendy tide could be turning with MX LOW PROFILE gaining some interest.
edit: Maybe check out the CHERRY Stream Keyboard for $30 on Amazon (US).
It’s not as important now, but one thing I really like about them is how portable they are. If I have to travel to work at a client site or visit an office, a Pok3r is trivial to bring along.
Once you’re really used to a semi-exotic keyboard, it’s really frustrating when they’re not available.
It is a traditional layout, no split, nothing like that. But I have personally found that I only get sore wrists and fingers when I let the room temperature get too low, so I keep it warm and my keyboard choice seems to have no effect.
[0] https://codekeyboards.com/
If you want a standard keyboard, DAS and WASD offer some good options.
If Ergonomics are important and you don't mind the learning curve, go for split. The Ergodox EZ is a great option here. I have 2, one for my work desk and one for home, been using them for a few years now and haven't looked back.
Whatever you do, go with a mechanical keyboard. Purely subjective, but you really can't beat the tactility of it.
Good luck in your hunting (and in my case pecking)
I can recommend the Kinesis Advantage too, but I later sold mine -- weight lifting did an even better job of eliminating ergonomic problems, as did piano practice once before, and I think it's generally a better strategy to not need ergonomic devices.
I imagine ergonomic designs probably makes the most sense for people that do large volumes of typing with high WPM. For me I just really like the compact layout of my FC660C, small boards allow me to have a mouse either side, swapping mouse hands is another great way to avoid RSI.
I have to say, I found the Kinesis Advantage to be fantastic. It really did work, solving my ergonomic problems, wonderfully and very quickly. The need for it did depend on the volume of typing -- back when I used it, I switched off of it, but then had to switch back after some days with more typing.
If I were buying today, I'd buy a Moonlander, the newer version of the Ergodox.