HN call for help: Thousand of IT specialists flee Russia as job market collapses

220 points by smugglerFlynn ↗ HN
Hello hn.

I believe that situation on Russian IT market is not being represented 100% clear right now in Europe and US.

Yesterday I had to emergently evacuate my family from Moscow on a flight to Dubai, leaving behind my apartment, car and my whole life. Every single one of the people I know in IT considers doing the same, or is already in the process (I have 12+ years of networking in this industry, this is fully subjective, but should be representative evnough - I talked to more than 50 people I know directly). Out of my close friends 50% have either already left, or purchasing tickets as you read that.

Every single person I know has either full blown panic attacks, averages 2hr of sleep per night, or has extreme anxiety. Four close friends whom I met through IT are hiding from bombs in Kiev and Sumy. Every single one is shocked by decisions made by authoritative Russian government with no care for peoples lives, either in Ukraine or in Russia itself. As you read this, laws are being arranged to set criminal charges even for things like acknowledging the war.

My whole investment portfolio got frozen in the St. Pete stock exchange for indefinite period and little hope to get them back. On February 27 I was lucky to quickly get a $10k loan in rubles and purchase already expensive dollars to mitigate the risks, right before inflation skyrocketed to %20+. Most people are not that lucky, and banks have tightened any loans. My salary has already devalued by 50% after one week of war.

If anyone can provide any help, Russian IT community needs it. Please reach in comments below by providing your contacts and type of help you can offer, I will do my best to connect you with Russian-speaking communities on Telegram: three of them are communities of developers with 10k+ people in each of them.

_Any_ help with remote work or relocation offers to UAE, Georgia, Turkey, Serbia would be immense.

You can also reach me directly on 224.0.0.25@gmail.com

Hacker news, this is a crisis of extreme proportions. Please, we need your help.

126 comments

[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 217 ms ] thread
I think Ukrainian IT need more help. People lost not only job, they lost homes, life, relatives and any future.
There is a huge Russian-speaking community in Ukraine. Most non-regional IT communities in Telegram have lots of Ukrainian people, many relocated back and forth between two countries in the past.

Long story short: this post has no aim to focus on helping only Russians, if you have resources to support any kind of IT relocation regardless of nationality, please step forward.

Nobody denies that, but I don't think it's an "either or" situation. Resources spent on helping the fleeing and dislocated people to organize, like networking and bootstrapping communities in foreign countries, wouldn't have necessary been spent on Ukrainian developers help. They are likely to benefit from this too.
I just dont think there is much goodwill with russia right now and righly so, i understand the population is not to blame but who else kept and elected the dictator, at some point you just have to say No and thats what is happening now on a global scale so russians will actually feel their governments actions. In sorry this hits you but enough is enough..
Man, not to start political flame here, but you have no idea how many tricks they use to bend your mind and force you to fear authority.

We had no real election over the last 18 years, even the one on 2000 was fueled by fear and manipulated people to vote for a certain candidate. It was all downhill from there.

We had constitution revised in a major way twice just by popular vote, with all edits being made to keep people in power staying in power and destroying institutions.

This is the first, and most important thing I learned from my grandfather.

He was at pearl harbor when it was bombed, he was in a submarine under Tokyo bay during the war, he was part of many battles in the pacific, and finally nearly killed in a collision and received the purple heart among other medals. He was then part of the occupation of Japan after the war.

What did he decide to teach me after all that?

That the Japanese people are/were good people that were fooled and otherwise coerced (forced) into the war by evil leaders. Much like Russia today.

I've carried this with me my whole life. And will continue to try to spread it around (compassion).

My grand-grand father was sent on a train to Siberia during WW2 after spending two years in a solitary confinement at Matrosskaya Tishina[0].

Every once in a while the train stopped, and each stop they asked random people to step forward. These people were executed in front of others. However, majority of passenger have arrived to the final destination (prison camp) alive.

Those who made it alive were never the same, they were broken, psychologically.

Their families too. My grand-grand mother hang herself shortly after his arrest. My grandmother was deeply traumatized for the rest of her life by that (she was a little girl who found her mother hanging from the chandelier).

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrosskaya_Tishina

I heard that corpses of dead prisoners were thrown from train windows between stations.

It was even in TV Series .. I forgot title but that moment I remember very clear.

It was shocking. Unbelievable!

The history of Stalin times in Soviet Union is trully horrific. It's worth knowing just to be aware what kind of hell can be arranged on a mass scale by an evil dictator. It should be taught in all schools across the world, along with the deeds of other XX century evil mega mass murders.

For learning more, I personally recommend starting with "Kolyma Tales" by Varlam Shalamov. Aside from the educational part, it's a great piece of literature.

Varlam Shalamov is a master of short form, although IDK how well his stories translated.

About educational part: it's a frequent misconception. "Kolyma Tales" are not autobiography, it's a fiction.

E.g. His depiction of thieves wars reads as documentary but it's not. There is not a single personage that has direct match in reality. For some: it looks like combination of several real persons, some has no real analogues. The same with events, chronology and geography.

To write a documentary was never the goal for Shalamov.

And keep in mind that it's a perception of Shalamov who always was a man of weak health.

Dostoevsky was in similar or even harsher conditions but he found the strength to see in criminals around him not only infernal bad.

If you suppose that Dostoevsky is not relevant: there are other authors with similar experience.I

For example: Ahto Levi, Estonian, Hitlerjugend on start of WWII, conscripted in SS near end, after war - criminal, repeat offender, member of nationalistic gang -he's one of thieves that Shalamov depicts.

His "Notes by Gray Wolf" shows both degradation to beast and then return to human.

Ukrainian men are forbidden from leaving the country, so, when talking about relocation, you could at most only help the Ukrainian IT women.
i have a web3 startup and live in Tbilisi. We are looking for a few devs for a small project. if you know any who have landed here, please let me know.

TG/Whatsapp: +7 985 614-16-87

I'm in Bulgaria and locally there is a big dev need. Everyone is welcome.

I'm sorry that you and many other innocent people have to suffer in this madness.

Contact me on the same twitter handle as this hn one for nonpublic info.

Dzhovani, you are a legend. Thanks for your support.
There are lots of smart and experienced IT guys who is not supporting this war, and government in general. Many of them participated in protests and tried to stop it, but it failed. And now it is dangerous to stay here ((

P.S. I do agree - Ukrainians in even more need.

Supporting them with just a work outside of Russia - will help a lot.

Exactly, we cannot support each other if one of us hides in shelter, and another has 0 money or is mobilized to “fight for motherland”
"not supporting this war" -- means nothing to your future and the future of your family. Stop saying it. Support stopping the war!

"I do agree - Ukrainians in even more need." -- oh, really? Getting someone's country with its people demolished and that's funded by your taxes is "even more"?

Telepathy Labs in Singapore is hiring Full Stack / Backend / DevOps Engineers

Job details on LinkedIn, we’d welcome experienced and qualified professionals from Ukraine or Russia

Disclaimer: I work there / hiring manager

Thanks a lot for that! I’m relaying this to our telegram.
Are there sanctions that we should be aware of when hiring Russian contractors?
That’s up to your local regulations, none from Russian side that I know of (so far)
You can't pay to any Russian bank using SWIFT, Wise, Payoneer, Paxum, and probably any other MC/WU/Amex/Visa powered platforms, since recently. Other than that - no.
SWIFT will disconnect in 12th of March banks from sanction list.

Not "any Russian bank". Of course it's possible that in future all Russian banks will be under sanctions.

Right now even bank transfers between Russia and Ukraine works fine. My ex-girlfriend still has a way to support her parents in Kyiv.

If you meant possibility of total blockade: it's probable.

Zelensky campaigns exactly for that.

At least his ideas more realistic than Macron voiced: to block bitcoins in Russia.

I think Ukrainian IT need more help
I’m copying here my reply to a similar comment.

There is a huge Russian-speaking community in Ukraine. Most non-regional IT communities in Telegram have lots of Ukrainian people, many relocated back and forth between two countries in the past.

Long story short: this post has no aim to focus on helping only Russians, if you have resources to support any kind of IT relocation regardless of nationality, please step forward.

I am helping with relocate to Kazakhstan, send me the details at info@withpublic.com
Thanks <3! I’m relaying this info to our telegram.
has it become impossible to work remotely from russia?
I assume you mean staying abroad while keeping working for the Russian company.

You need to understand the scale. Just today Yandex (one of the largest IT companies in Russia, think “Russian Google”) has announced[0] they are at risk of default. That’s 10 000 people, and Yandex is not the only large IT company.

Companies like EPAM also have plans to evacuate people, that’s north of 30k people in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia and it is not clear how many layoffs there will be.

0 — https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5240531

what about the other way around (living in russia working remotely)
People fear what happens next, those who can do their best to leave. We focus on it as it seems to be a major crisis.

But you are right, people who stay will need help as well.

Good luck getting paid. The banks are pretty much all under sanctions. There's no SWIFT transfers, so no deposits from abroad.
The whole Russian economy is going to collapse. Gazprom is down 87% in Europe since the Russian markets were open. That is a giant energy company with oil up huge.

The ruble took another massive hit again last night. Any Russian financial company is probably already wiped out.

I wouldn't be shocked if the market doesn't open next week, it is not reopening and everything is going to have to be nationalized.

We have never seen this before with a modern economy. In the 1929 market crash 25% of the US population were still farmers. Russia is 5% farmers. Most people are directly exposed to the fragility of the modern economy.

My first thought is, with the current sanctions, how would you pay the remote worker? I can't imagine any company right now thinking it's optimal to hire somebody residing in Russia.
We now have over 197 resumes posted just today in the past 7 hours by people in despair: https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAE3nUawZ4YX6AtDCFg
A web resource would be easily shared IMO, while telegram requires ppl to download the app and join.
Already working on it. If anyone is interested in contribution - message me.
I can confirm everything you said about state of IT industry, it matches my experience.

Our team is in process movingto Bulgaria thanks to BESCO (write letter to them right now if Bulgaria is an option for you). We are getting some help acquiring visas fast, but getting tickets out of Russia is harder with every minute (literally). We are leaving all our lives behind and fleeing in shock, hoping one day to be able to return, to help those who couldn't leave.

Stay strong.

Working for SinnerSchrader (part of Accenture Interactive). We have an office in Prague. And due to Corona do mostly remote stuff. We are looking for tech people [0].

I have no idea if anything might work out. But it might be a chance.

[0]: https://sinnerschrader.jobs/en/

I hope that Accenture actually thought of this when they terminated the 2,000+ people they had in Russia a few days ago.
I agree. We (regular employees and even our Management) have no idea what Accenture meant when the leadership mentioned that they intend to care for these people.

We all hope to receive more clarification on that part. Personally I might understand that this is a difficult situation even if all involved persons really mean well (and from what I could experience especially the Accenture leadership are actual well meaning people - at least the ones I got to know). While also navigating difficult political waters.

How do you pay people without Swift? What can be done to help our (now sadly former) Russian colleagues without putting them in danger for working for a US/western company?

Can you transfer people? But still - how to pay them?

I don't have any more insights than the official communications from HQ. But I still am hopeful that as much as is possible is being done.

But yeah - the situation is s*t. Sorry for the language.

(and all that coming from me who has quite a difficult view on/relationship with our parent organization)

Swift only hurts couple of banks which are under sanctions, and only transactions done over swift. Money transfers are not fully blocked. I highly doubt this is the real reason.
(comment deleted)
Bro, we put sanctions on you for a reason, not to help you after they hurt you.
It definitely hurts Russia if their most talented workers relocate out of the country
sure, but hes asking for remote work as well, for those staying in Moscow.

I think its very funny, him speaking about 2hours a day, like his in grave danger. He didnt mention anything about being presecuted.

I happen to know people stuck in Ukraine fearing for their life so please excuse me that I find it hard to emphatize with him. I would feel bad if he dint overstate how bad his situation is.

This person is fleeing their home of decades, their family and friends, for the unknown with barely anything to start from the ground somewhere. Did you expect them to single-handedly take Putin down themselves? If they didn't vote for Putin, they have my utmost sympathy and I wish I could help. Anti-Putin Russians are also lesser victims in this war on Ukraine. Remember, protesting Putin and the war can now lead to 15 years in a Russian gulag.
Maybe I was not 100% clear on that.

People who look for remote work need it to stay somewhere _outside_ of Russia and work remotely from there. Relocation is no easy feat, at least to do it quickly. Especially with half of the flights out of Russia being shut down.

"bro" we put sanctions on the gov not to hurt your everyday Ivan. Its not like they live in a democracy and russians can just do anything about their dictator gov.
The sanctions most definitely were, are, should and will be targeting much more than the government.
Unfortunately this is true - apathy or indifference with the leader forms partial complicity with the actions in Ukraine. Even if only 1%. The economic success of an individual contributes to the evil leader's actions by providing money and resources to the military as taxes (etc). It's sad but until a million people march on Putin and hang him from the yard arm to restore their beautiful nation and start restoration payments to Ukraine, the sanctions need to be very heavy and target the entire country as a whole. Sad situation.
not sure this is realistic

million people get together? you need some kind of leadership. this mean u have someone u can aim your snipers at / throw KGB at to disappear into a gulag and never be seen again...

russia is not exactly usa where you are free to buy assault rifles in grocery store, or where you can buy even a small gun for that matter... its not like bunch of guys decide to storm Kremlin over the weekend and magically overthrow the gov

I mean it happened in russia in the past, but it was literally at a cost of several millions dead, not sure if this is the right solution

It is entirely realistic and has happened several times in modern history, at least a few in the last decade

Two examples of not "single leader" protests happened in 2013, in Brazil and Turkey

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests

P.S.: I don't have an opinion regarding whether Russian people are "responsible" for staying in Russia and "fixing" their government, but I upvoted everyone answering to this part of the thread/topic in a civil manner. Not many other places I could witness a discussion like this that does not degrade into insults

I was talking in context of russia. of course protests happen everywhere sometimes they have a result sometimes not. but look at russia's history and how they deal with people who try to stir things up..
I think this is an overly simple answer to a complex dynamic. If you invest time researching victimization, you will understand why victims are usually not in a position of power to decide their fate. Some even actively support the perpetrators — that’s not a sign of a real will, but a symptom of submission.

All this is achieved by perpetrator through fear and manipulation. There is a reason why societies keep ending in this kind of situation, and this reason is not a lack of will to “stop the abuse”.

Human mind has dozens of biases, those who exploit them and add physical abuse to the mix very often end up on top. In USSR this exploitation was made into an art, especially at earlier times (30s and 40s).

This is to hurt the Russian government and economy so that the leaders can reconsider their decisions. They live in an authoritarian regime, the citizens are negatively impacted as a side-effect of the decision of their leaders. Have some empathy, I'm sure a majority of Russia citizens are not ok with the war.
(comment deleted)
No, this is to affect the people. People without jobs or money have time and motivation to march to the capital to enact the needed policy changes to get the sanctions removed.
Tell me you have lived in a democratic society your entire life without telling me.
Honest question here:

Have you considered, as an able-bodied young man, doing the honorable thing and "cleaning up" your country?

Young American patriots did the same back in 1776. Maybe it’s time for your people and country to enter the modern era.

The problem is that over 50% of Russian people stand behind Putin. They get their news and political views from watching state-run TV.
Surely his approval ratings must have taken a massive hit?

The OMON, military and state media will also loose their life savings and suffer under the war and sanctions.

There's just so much protests they can handle and with more and more people with nothing left to loose, the momentum can quickly overwhelm them.

It's not gonna be easy but you're running out of options. Best of luck if you choose to fight.

These two situations are literally not comparable at all. For one thing, England didn't have massive police and secret police force estabilised in its American colonies which could just immediately disappear any people who are starting to organize any kind of resistance. The Russian despots were always extremely good at snuffing out any internal resistance, that's how they stayed in power for centuries.
> England didn't have massive police and secret police force estabilised in its American colonies which could just immediately disappear any people who are starting to organize any kind of resistance

It didn't, because the colonist didn't let it happen.

Democracy and freedom aren’t privilege, they are rights earned with blood.

The capabilities of the modern Russian state to control and inflict harm and terror upon its people far outweigh the capabilities of the 18th Century British Empire in regards to its American colonies.

The modern idea of a police force didn't even exist at the time.

Regardless of someones stance on the situation, some questions as it relates to a knowledgeable IT/Software person fleeing a country and the logistics of getting paid might help us all.

* What method(s) of payment are capable of receiving that could help?

* Are you able to establish a bank account in another country or is it down to cash or crypto? If crypto, do you have a way to reliably withdraw into local currency for food/shelter?

* Do you require special work visa's? Or is the only alternative a "under the table" (i.e. off the books/unofficial) type of arrangement?

* If someone were able to hire/pay for work, what assurances are there that you can produce work on a daily basis? (I assume risks include many things if someone is mobile, doesn't have internet, etc.)

How hard is it for Russians to get a work Visa in the EU or Schengen? You might make it to St. Petersburg and then just cross over to Finnland or Estonia. It's just 200km to their capitals. IT people are still in strong demand especially if your salary expectation are below average.
My understanding is that EU has stopped all visa processing for Russians.
> Yesterday I had to emergently evacuate my family from Moscow on a flight to Dubai, leaving behind my apartment, car and my whole life.

What happened? Were you in danger?

Following the news I'd guess that the situation in Russia is deteriorating rapidly, especially with the currency becoming worthless and accounts being frozen. Who knows what kind of draconian laws the authorities will come up with to counter the coming social unrest? Better leave now while you can still afford it.
We already know. Over the past days they have criminalized most of the ways to convey information about the conflict, with 10-20 years of imprisonment. As a side-consequence, most of the non-government press in Russia does not exist anymore.
If I had a choice between being locked out of my investments and in a country where the economy is falling apart or being locked out of my investments and in a much more stable country, I'd pick the latter. I'd be out of work regardless but at least there would be some near term chance of job opportunity somewhere other than Russia.
At any time now a martial law can be declared in Russia, closing borders, interning foreign citizens, conscripting any male 18-60 to serve as cannon fodder in Ukraine, confiscating savings etc.
I am reposting my "who is hiring" post - we are hiring remote.

We are a startup building high performance machine learning systems on CPUs. Our core technologies are hash-based algorithms that accelerate neural network training and high dimensional near neighbor search.

We are looking for engineers with 3+ years of experience building and shipping high performance systems. Machine learning and C++ experience is a big plus, and definitely tell us about any AI publications you have, we’re interested! If building a new set of machine learning tools from scratch sounds fun to you, get in touch! Feel free to email me vaidhy [at] thirdai.com. Our website is under active reconstruction using Hugo (that’s how early stage we are), but feel free to find out more about us at https://www.thirdai.com

<rant>

Some of the responses on this thread are appalling. Misanthropes are dehumanising people based on nationality. I wonder:

Does every German bear responsibility for WW2?

Does every US citizen bear responsibility for the genocide in Yemen (I could about 60 countries here...)?

Does every Ukrainian bear responsibility the Azov regiment crimes?

WTF is wrong with you ppl? Get your shit together.

You're acting as if a 5-year old in Russia is a lesser human being compared to a 5 year old in Ukraine. They're both 5-year olds.

</rant>

Blessed or cursed by where you are born. These people are leaving Russia because they will get thrown in jail for protesting. They're at high risk of conscription in a war that don't agree to.

I have spoken to Russians and Belarusians over the last few days. They're against what their government is doing. Leaving is one of the only options.

In some ways, IT leaving is worse for Russia than just the sanctions. That 'talent' will never return. That loss will linger.

> Does every German bear responsibility for WW2?

A generation of Germans made the choice not to let the past define them, and through hard work bootstrapped themselves and their country to become a leader for human rights, democracy and economy.

Time for citizens of Russia and its allies to make the same decisions.

Thanks for that.

Maybe we should make a table with a no. of victims per country so we can distribute blame more fairly? Can also probably automate and gamify this. Good thing most leaders who made these decisions are gone and we can shift anger to actual citizen instead.

Probably sounds crazy but if you speak English you probably can adjust and thrive here in Argentina. The government is friendly so they won't deny a visa or anything. We have open borders by constitutional mandate so you can even become a citizen after a few years.
In some ways the further from Russia the easier it will be. Countries in Europe feel very close and very connected. Asian countries and even countries like Australia and NZ not so much.

AU/NZ are looking on and supporting Ukraine, but they lack the deep involvement.

AU/NZ can be a bit of pain visa wise, but there are plenty of IT jobs. You do need to be able to speak English, but in my experience dealing with teams overseas (mostly China), it's not unusual to have to pause a conversation while someone looks up the meaning of the word before continuing.

Similarly, there is a large expat population in Thailand, and there are definitely opportunities for tech people. Thailand only has 30 days visa free for Russians, however it's possible to extend the visa for a further 30 days by going and sitting in a government office waiting in line for a few hours.

It's also possible to do a border run to reset this (it's not like Europe where it 90 days in 180 days.

There are various agencies that can help get longer visas once you're there as well.

[0]: https://visafreecountries.com/russian-passport

Edit: Sorry for the misinterpreted news below.

Regarding Thailand, I would not be so optimistic. There is a report (https://lenta.ru/news/2022/03/05/problemsss/) that Russian bank cards just stopped working in Thailand (Edit: hotels only). So one would somehow need to rely on cash only while searching for the opportunities.

Edit: I should have checked the source: https://www.atorus.ru/news/press-centre/new/59021.html which says that Russian cards still work e.g. in shops.

Thanks for posting. This is very enlightening details from the inside. Why do you think you have no hope for getting your portfolio back? Is Main reason for exodus is reduced salary or reduced value of your salary? Or is the work disappearing because of companies moving out?
I see three reasons for the exodus: reduced salary, firings of an extreme scale which already happen, and political views. Most people I know have started relocating due to the latter, but former two now start to take major impact.

Regarding portfolio - exchange has been frozen indefinitely, depending on measures taken by central bank nobody can predict what would happen to the stock price. They have also blocked most ways to move money out of the country. Possible economic default is also a possibility.

I have added an Airtable form where you can add your relocation details, I shall share the data with only trusted hiring managers and IT companies. https://www.withpublic.com/
I will launch a Job Board for Ukrain software devs arriving in Germany specifically, to connect them to companies open to hire them. EU is changing law to allow ukrains to get work permit easier, faster, for longer.

However, I would advise everyone to try to be a freelancer if possible. It is a LOT easier for companies to hire then, even from other countries.

We lost connection to our iOS dev living in Kiyv couple of days ago.