Open Letter to Visa and Mastercard from IT Specialists Fleeing Russia

83 points by smugglerFlynn ↗ HN
Alex here speaking from the Russian IT community (40k+ people). Please read our message.

Switching off Visa and Mastercard transactions abroad will lock thousands of IT specialists within the regime. These people are now trying to flee the country.

We wrote about the situation here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30552091

Over the past two days we had 300+ resumes submitted[0], connecting these people with more than 30 organizations from Europe, US, Canada, India, Turkey, UAE and other countries to help them urgently relocate. Many of those looking for reloc are Ukrainian people by nationality who happen to live in Russia.

Lot of these people rely on scarce savings which they still have on their bank cards, as many were fired from their jobs over the past week. Getting cash is practically impossible right now, even in Moscow.

These people won’t be able to purchase tickets to get out. Those who already flew away won’t be able to finance themselves, as many still rely on Russian sources of income and try to work remotely while looking for another job.

Me and other community admins practically beg you, from all of our IT communities, to reconsider the decision, or give us more time.

Signed,

oleg@hey.com (admin of 36k members IT community) the.noble.activity@gmail.com (admin of 1k member IT community) @zzzybkin (admin of 7k member IT community) sasha.milenkin@yandex.ru (admin of 1.3k member IT community) crimes@hey.com (admin of 3k member IT community)

0 - all resumes to date are published here https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAE3nUawZ4YX6AtDCFg

You can help by posting in the comments type of help, or relaying above information and our contacts to your local recruiters and hiring managers.

144 comments

[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 206 ms ] thread
I have a ticket in Turkey, but I don't know how I will pay for life
I'm totally agree. We're in a same situation right now.
I was looking for a job when Putin started this inhuman war.

Now it's even more difficult to find a job, even in the open world, and in conditions of urgent relocation (without relocation from the company) I can only count on casual earnings with payment to my Russian cards.

Please, let's find a way out!

We are locked in a financial trap or cage, isolated from the rest of the world. IT sector has the most open-minded and kind people.

Fully support!

Victims on all sides.

'In war people who don't know each other kill each other on orders of people who know each other but don't kill each other.'

I can't quote my SO enough with this saying.

While I am also still trying to understand why this war makes sense to Putin and Russian leadership in their heads.

i agree. cutting russia from visa and mc systems actually helps the russian government by making it easier to retain IT talent to build internal systems and close off the country with over 150m people from outside world, which is easy to control
I tried to pay with Mir Pay and it is just doesn't work. I live in Armenia and I don't know how to pay for anything. I don't know how to live without Visa or Mastercard
Absolutely agree. IT specialists living in Russia are in awful situation. Blocking visa/mastercard actually damages civilians more than Putin's regime
If I look at it cynically from a strategic position this is probably why it is done.

Hit the civilians so that they go to the streets against Putin.

That's probably the idea. I just know of no case where this had worked (but I might just miss all the successful examples in history).

Sadly it is the normal people who suffer most.

Problem is that for just saying something like "no to war" at the street you can be inprisoned for years in Russia. Goverment have so much brute forces like police and OMON so they can handle anything.
I saw videos of Ukrainian civilians stopping your country's tanks with their bare hands.
Now go check out the video of a 10 years olds getting arrested for holding a sign with “No war” on it.

https://youtu.be/YlVkGERhHkg

I'd rather protest together with the kids and get jailed, beaten and tortured than to run like a coward and let the fascists take over.
I'm in college now, they threaten to expel me if they see me at a rally. And there's an army right there, and most likely to the front...
and still let the fascists take over
Putin propaganda says that russian military forces has been ordered to minimize collateral damage as possible. (minimize != avoid. just minimize)

So, if civilian could stop tank with bare hands just because he is civilian, not a soldier, not trying to kill russian soldiers or throw molotov bottle to tank - may be (just may be, I am not sure) this part of propaganda is true or at least truthy

Actually for protest it's only 15 days.

And in our time in Ukraine in 2014 we didn't let Police to drag people out of crowd. We hold the line. But your people for some reason allow police to drag individual protestors.

That's sadly.

I'm gonna leave Russia day after tomorrow, heading in Turkey and I just don't know how I supposed to pay for anything there with all my blocked cards:(
you're lucky you managed to get a ticket. try to get as much cash as possible..
We don’t kill people in Kharkiv. Putin does.
Of course, a single man walking around and killing people. Superman. Please, how stupid do you think everyone is?
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. You can't attack others like this here, no matter how in the right you are or feel you are.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

But how can I help my aunt and friends in Kiev and other citizens of Ukraine if I can't use my funds at all
Please don't do this here. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it is a brutal response. We need to treat each other better than this.

Empathy for one doesn't negate empathy for others, including others who may be in lesser straits but are still suffering. Those of us sitting in comfort and safety right now are particularly in no position to demean anyone who is not. I'm not saying that about you (I don't know your situation, of course), but there are a lot of internet commenters doing exactly that right now, and it's not ok here. It's also deeply counterproductive to what they presumably want to achieve.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Bitcoin? Gold? I don't know what the Turkish market is like.
some Turkey shops & markets accepts MIR cards, so you can try to issue instant one in your bank
I agree Situation gets worse and worse every day, more and more people wanna leave their country. Leave them some ways to do that
Hi everyone. I understand the idea of blocking Visa/MasterCard in Russia for destroying economy and hurting Putin, and I kinda agree with it. The only problem — this sanction will also lock a lot of IT-people inside Russia, which is provide another chance for Russian economy (due to this people have upper median salary in Russia and they have massive influence on local market). Also this sanction will slow down the "brain leaking" from Russia, which is also can influence on stability of Putin regime.
We don’t deserve this harassment just because we living in Russia
Oh, but you do. If collective responsibility was not a concept you were aware of before, you will certainly learn it now, just like the Germans did after WWII
yes, I understand what collective responsibility is, as well as collective irresponsibility. in Russia, 90% of the population are below the poverty line and, due to their ignorance, are subject to propaganda from federal channels, which have been under the control of the state for many years. the remaining 10% of people go to rallies, defend (trying to) their position, try to convey their thoughts to the rest. but the policy of "fear", promoted by our government, quickly extinguishes all these people. we take to the streets and risk losing our jobs (and someone loses). now there are even fewer of us, because the government spends the budget not on the welfare of the people, but on its control and intimidation. why these 10% of people should be responsible for our government? for the remaining 90% of people? we were always against it, but they shut our mouths, put us in jail and ruined our lives. we are used to this from our authorities, but we are not used to this from the rest of the world.
This completely sucks and I'm sorry for you. One if the goals of these sanctions and other actions is probably to snap the other 90% out of their trance. If all the daily things they take for granted don't work maybe they will ask why. Will it work or backfire? Who know but meanwhile Ukrainians is rightfully demanding as much pressure as possible.

I am sorry for everyone in this mess, but the faster Putin is forced to stop in Ukraine the sooner it can return to normalcy.

May I try to spoil this view with two insights?

First, this move by Visa and Mastercard did nothing internally, all the Visa and Mastercard issued cards will work due to local processing center. Absolutely zero impact for poor people who shop in Pyaterochka and then go home to watch TV propaganda for a leisure. Only educated people abroad (foreign students and runaway workers) will suffer.

Second, gov media spins these measures and gains more support internally. Their approval ratings now skyrocket because they have invested years into building vision of enemies who want to hurt through sanctions. Common people now run to them in fear and agree to trade even more of their freedoms for “protection”. Just open up the list of laws introduced over the past week, and see for yourself.

How is the rest of the world supposed to distinguish between 10% who sit at home but are against it and 90% who sit at home and are for it? And why should it?

Choices have consequences. Always.

oh, really? What did you do when Russia occupied Crimea / Eastern Ukraine? What you did when Russia was bombing schools and hospitals in Syria?
I am a software engineer in Russia. My future wife is studying in France. We are both against what Russian government and army are doing.

I have less than 3000$ of savings and no ability to work remotely from other countries because I can't get my wage outside of Russia now. I can not leave without severe financial and logistical issues to even meet her again and I don't really have many places to go to. She can not return here, nor should she because it is dangerous, and she can not withdraw cash from her Russian bank accounts where most of her money is to support herself in France.

These sanctions, including VISA and MasterCard block, endangered and condemned thousands if not tens and hundreds of thousands of people who have nothing to do with Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. Hell, it endangered 145 millions of people in Russia. Because these sanctions don't hurt Putin or his oligarch supporters but they hurt regular people, who are now facing simply the danger of default.

Sorry to break it to you, but regardless of your letters MasterCard and Visa won't return in the near future.
The closure of transfers is now not only affecting IT, but also free media :(
It's true. It scares me.

I urgently left Russia with almost no cash; this morning, after reading the news from Mastercard, I miraculously managed to withdraw about 3k, but I don't know how to adjust my life in the future yet

To get a job, I need more documents than I managed to take with me, so for now the only source of income remains in Russia, but how to use it is a huge problem (not to mention the exchange rate due to which my salary decreases every day)

You are IT guy, You'll get a job just fine, don't worry.

If you are qualified, at least.

Gathering 15 comments within 15 minutes is very rare on Hackernews. 12 of the 15 comments are from accounts created today. Have people from the mentioned IT communities been asked to come to this page and to create accounts?
I think there were a link to this post posted in one of the community channels, and some people that didn’t have an account just decided to create one to show their support
(comment deleted)
@dang and other mods

We have asked people in our telegram channels and communities to share their experience in the comments. I know this breaks the rules. I hope at war time this would be acceptable, given the cause.

Posting all this is a huge risk for us.

All these stories which people post here are real. We are not Putin to bullshit people with lies or manipulate people to vote for things they don’t believe in — much less than 1% of people in Russia know that hacker news exists.

We gain $0 from this activity. I fact, me and a couple of close friends worked 24/7 over the last two days to help as many people as we can to connect with 30+ recruiters and hiring managers.

One of the problems is that it's very difficult to explain to people that does not use HN what is a good comment in HN. In particular, many of the comments are to short, and that doubles the negative effect on the community.

I suggest that the new users that still can edit their comments to write a longer and more personal version. If they can not edit, just self-reply to their own comment and add three or four paragraphs. (Front end or back end? Emacs or Vi? Preferred language? City??? Age range???)

I understand that some may not like to share too many personal details, so I added a few question marks. But if the idea is to show that there are real persons suffering on both side, some personal stories are better than "It seems to be true". I also understand that many may not write English too well, I'm a native Spanish speaker and I make a lot of orthographical and gramatical mistakes here.

Also, avoid cut and pasting the same "personal" story many times, it will cause an even worse effect.

The idea is not foolproof:

* It is possible that dang does not like this longer versions neither and still decide to ban all the new accounts.

* It is possible that someone will acuse you of being a gpt-3 bot, and adding orthographical errors on purpose, or even nastier things.

* I don't expect the community to be super happy with the green account after the expanded comments, just less unhappy.

I think all of these are valid points.

If half of our lives were not criminalized over the past few days by new laws, if 12+ free speech media orgs were not shut down in just three days, if my friends were not hiding from the bombs in Kiev, if our chances to flee the regime were not cut down drastically by political decisions, I would follow these by the book.

Regarding bots and copy paste — feel free to join our Telegram and conduct select Turing tests on people who post their resumes. Maybe that will prove you we are not a bunch of bots, but people in extreme danger who fear for their lives and their families.

Just to be super clear, I don't think that you or the green accounts are bots or shills or whatever.
Yes, is anything wrong with that? People related to tech startup world want to be heard and thats good motivation to come here and support the thread (as did I)
I have the same problem. People who support Putin don't have problems like this, because they will not leave Russia. MasterCard and Visa just created problems for people who against Putin's politic.
If this people have such problems, then they can go and protest against this banning, instead of asking to cancel such things.
And after that they just end up in jail and won’t be able to post anything anywhere anymore.
fully support the blockage of these cards. Coming here and whining cause your comfortable life is ruined? Tell this to families in Irpin, which got bombed when evacuating. You have a chance to protest and shout your position yet you choose to turn your face from the problem and leave all alone with it`s problems. So why someone should sympathise you again?
No, we don’t have a chance to protest. It’s simply not how it works here. People in Europe have a chance to protest, people in USA have a chance to protest, but not the people in Russia. We don’t. When you protest in Russia you just get jailed the very same day and that’s it.
It’s easy to say such things when you was lucky to born in a country that respects your right to protest and other civilian rights. But would you go to a protest if that guaranteed to get you in jail for half a month at best? Would you speak up publicly for yourself if that meant you get jailed for years? Especially if you have wife and kids? I don’t think so. And if you say yes, I would think it’s a lie, or that you’re stupid.
Yes I would and you're a coward.

Also poisoning the well with your "if you say yes, I would think it's a lie, or that you're stupid"

I hope writing that does at least help you feel better because it won't help the people of Ukraine.

Oh, c'mon. It's always easy to speak from the sofa - yes, I would, you are a coward and bla-bla-bla. You are not living in this shitty contry and you are judging from the western way of thinking. Remember, it's always a number one priority to save your and your family lives and then care about others.
You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. If you keep doing that, we will have to ban you. Aggression towards other users is particularly not ok here, regardless of how right your views are or you feel they are.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Yes, the rules still apply during a war—the violence and aggression going on right now does not imply that this place should destroy itself as well.

That includes not using the site primarily for political, ideological, or nationalistic battle. We ban accounts that do that regardless of what they're battling for, because it destroys everything this site is supposed to exist for.

History is full of examples of people who protested their governments at a grave risk. Some have died, but some have won. Think of it as “dying for your country” - you choose not to, but many would, and many in Ukraine are doing it as we speak.
Early last century Lenin and friends were also getting jailed, yet they kept protesting and at the end took the power. If they could do it so can you.
Sure, but even then you never know in advance if you are part of the Lenin-equivalent or Martov-equivalent faction in that scenario; revolutionary victories can be quite Pyrhhic.
Lenin didn’t know if he would win, I’m pretty sure he knew the risk. In Russia today life is too comfortable to protest and people feel they have too much to lose. Until this changes nothing will change in Russia. That’s exactly the point of sanctions.
Protests never work under a dictatorship. See the Belarus experience and how much people was protesting. I believe that fleeing of IT guys will hurt Russian's economic more than being tortured in the jail.

Any possibilities of protest in Russia are suppressed. Putin has been doing this for decades. We don't have that much support. Visa/MS blocking affects ~1% of the population who want to flee.

It truly scares me how an entire nation of developers just became cut off of the IT community as well as the rest of the world just because they happen to born at the same place as one crazy dictator.
What scares me more is that we seem to have this dictatorship thing going for hundred of years already :-/
This issue affects thousands of anti-war/anti-Putin folks who fled Russia.