Ask HN: Most Reliable Modern Refrigerator?
After our Samsung refrigerator of <7 years failed yesterday I recalled HN posters mentioning how criminally unreliable are modern refrigerators.
I've benefitted from many a great advices I saw on HN about appliances, so I am hoping the collective HN mind could have a suggestion about this indispensable household item.
I know one solution would be to get a vintage fridge, but I would really appreciate the energey-saving and the ice-making features of the modern ones.
60 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 137 ms ] threadOn the plus side, in comparison to 60s fridges they're quite a bit more energy efficient.
I would avoid ultra bottom end fridges that do not have active fan cooling. I would go for lower end to middle of the road type budgets.
Try a different manufacturer. Whirlpool can be price competitive. To me, quality wise they seem not bad, but often can have mediocre OEM components that fail within the time range you experienced on your Samsung fridge. If it's a component that's easily replaceable (in this case, not compressor related) that's something I can tolerate.
To the OP, is it something that broke that would not be economically practical to get repaired by a professional?
This is survivorship bias. Repairs were so common on appliances from this era that Maytag could run a profitable repair business that is now engraved in recent history, 30 years after it no longer exists.
The reason is that there is literally not a single 2000+ fridge that will be going when it's 50-60 years old. Say that 1960's-1970's fridge broke and needed repair sometime in the last 50-60 years? Or the next? I can still today get plenty of repair parts! You can't get parts for most "modern" fridges over 10 years old today. No way in 50 years. You're simply not going to fix your internet-connected DRM'd in-door water dispenser filter controller board when it's discontinued.
My bold prediction is that in 50 years, you'll still see pre-2000 fridges in about the same % as you do today, with the rest being 0-20 years old (which would be 2050-2070 models).
And I don't use a 1960 fridge, mines about 3 years old - why? because the old one broke and I had to get a new one quick (I could not afford the time to repair - plus the old one was post-2000 junk anyhow), I like auto-defrost, and the other monkeys that live in the house need ice+water in the door, or they'll throw poop at me.
At a 4% interest rate, and .12$/KWh, a modern fridge @450KWh/yr for 10 years costs NPV -$933 for electricity and say -$1000 to buy it. And old fridge @1800KWh/yr for 10 (more) years costs -$1750. So you'd save about $200 with the ancient fridge, not counting having to manually defrost it.
And before you say it - there is no "repairing over and over". You need to put about that $200 into like it every 20-30 years, every other generation you hand it down to.
Still if electricity doubled in cost, or you just like auto-defrost, or live with other monkeys, it's probably not worth it. But the difference isn't "vast". It's pretty negligible because on the whole, fridges don't use a lot lot of power.
So - why can't we have a basic $1000 modern efficient fridge that is repairable? because - you'd keep it for 30-50 years and that'd be the end of that business. But what if that company was then encouraged to make a better fridge next year. It's an interesting unintended side-effect of right-to-repair and other repair-ability measures. Instead of buying a new fridge because I have to, I should buy a new one because it's 2x as efficient and it's a better value proposition when faced with rising power costs. It'd spawn the right kind of obsolescence not fake bad design obsolescence.
Sorry, wasn't challenging that part, just bringing up an adjacent point. I apologize, I should've been clearer. I definitely believe the difference in reliability and repairability.
> At a 4% interest rate, and .12$/KWh, a modern fridge @450KWh/yr for 10 years costs NPV -$933 for electricity and say -$1000 to buy it. And old fridge @1800KWh/yr for 10 (more) years costs -$1750. So you'd save about $200 with the ancient fridge, not counting having to manually defrost it.
Thank you for doing the math here and making a convincing case for it. That's actually quite a bit better than I thought. However, electricity is already up to .25$/kWh in some states, and probably only going to increase in the years to come as fossil energy becomes scarcer. That changes the math a bit, but not drastically so I suppose. Refrigerators don't use all that much power to begin with anyway, considering the utility you get out of it.
> And before you say it - there is no "repairing over and over". You need to put about that $200 into like it every 20-30 years, every other generation you hand it down to.
Conversely, modern fridges in my experience aren't THAT unreliable either. If something breaks it's usually the ice maker or like a door seal, and many people will just let that stay broken. It's rare to see the actual fridge part break completely... in my very limited experience.
> Still if electricity doubled in cost, or you just like auto-defrost, or live with other monkeys, it's probably not worth it. But the difference isn't "vast". It's pretty negligible because on the whole, fridges don't use a lot lot of power.
Hah, sorry, I see now you've said the same thing.
> Instead of buying a new fridge because I have to, I should buy a new one because it's 2x as efficient and it's a better value proposition when faced with rising power costs. It'd spawn the right kind of obsolescence not fake bad design obsolescence.
This would be nice. FWIW, I know of a company that hand-builds ultra-efficient fridges out of a small town in America: http://www.sunfrost.com/
They're not very big... hard to compare with the mass-manufactured Chinese stuff... but just glad there's SOMEONE out there still making old-world hardware.
And before I even got around to purchasing a new fan, the water dospenser stopped working, and I haven't bothered looking at it yet.
Ideally I would just like to replace the whole thing with a quieter refrigerator, but I can't seem to find any reviews that actually address quietness.
Unfortunately, it makes annoying gas noises from time to time - apparently, that's a feature of all modern fridges (or so I was told by the repairman) - the noise is made by gas they use instead of freon. I learned to live with those noises and no longer notice them.
In any case, here's the link to the fridges:
https://www.ceneo.pl/Lodowki;szukaj-lod%c3%b3wka+lod%c3%b3wk...
In the search filters on the left, "Poziom hałasu" is the noise level in decibels.
There aren't many major parts that wear out in a refrigerator, a replacement may not be cheap but you don't have to junk the whole thing.
Find a vendor that targets customers who lose money if the appliance fails, and is unable to be quickly repaired.
So far, this has been a good way to locate Vulcan Ranges, SpeedQueen washers/dryers, and True refrigerators.
Now...there are drawbacks to this approach. Many of these brands don't target the price-point, convenience features, or aesthetic that consumer brands do. But, if the price is right, you may find something reliable you can live with.
https://true-residential.com/
There aren't any apartments that compete based on "Our super reliable appliances won't fail!" so any tenants unhappy about this have no marginal benefit to moving somewhere else.
Therefore, apartments usually provide the cheapest appliances which fit the aesthetic of the rest of the build. Or, these days, whichever appliance is available for purchase because there's been a massive shortage of durable goods.
>https://true-residential.com/
You don't say. I checked one of their basic refrigerators ("REFRIGERATOR WITH BOTTOM FREEZER") and the quote came out to $18,499. At that price, I have to wonder, is the increased reliability worth it? For a refrigerator that lasts twice as long, I'd only be willing to pay 50% more compared to a regular refrigerator.
If, for some reason, you lose $10,000/day when a refrigerator fails, yes. (maybe, judging from the marketing materials, because you can't AirBnB your château without a working freezer). In a residential situation, I guess that would be some Imperial caviar or life-saving medicine... worth it to someone out there I suppose
Wait until you find Samsung and Bosch components in your car.
Bosch and Samsung are conglomerates and make much more than even the list you've generated. Especially hvac and mechanical. Including non electronic.
That being said, Samsung, as a Chaebol/conglomerate, can suck and some things and be great at others, simply because its various divisions are very loosely related to each other. In this case, I've heard bad things about Samsung appliances and better things about their display and DRAM production.
I've had great experiences with Viking. Bosch is sometimes mentioned, but in my experience, it may be more maintenance friendly, but it breaks just as often (dishwasher and oven both needed major part replacements withing 7 years ownership).
I'm definitely interested in seeing what others have to say. I would like lasting quality, but not at the expense of efficiency and a small slice of modern features (ice dispenser being the main one), so vintage doesn't really meet my needs. I just know that I won't buy another appliance made by a large electronics brand like Samsung, LG, etc. Poor reliability + poor service ability paired with 'smart' features I have zero interest in.
- In door water dispensers and ice makers are unreliable and will likely break.
- Availability of repair technicians and spare parts varies by brand and is region dependent.
- Different brands are good at different appliances. For instance, Bosch is well known for their dishwashers. Unfortunately I didn't find one in my budget that clearly stood out from the rest.
Never hurts to talk to someone at a local appliance center if you have one nearby.
I think Miele just rebrands Liebherr fridges, though.
I went with Asko and have been a happy camper thus far (Fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, dishwasher.) All have been doing what I expect them to with no fuss for 15 years now.
Replaced the pump on the dishwasher once, cost approx $40 for the pump and took me fifteen minutes to replace.
Last time I checked they had a whole table with various models and their ratings. What more do you need?
I'm a big fan of Miele. Their appliances are very solid, enduring and priced accordingly.
https://www.miele.co.uk
Today I learned. I was looking at [1] so assumed Miele made their own. Thanks for the clarification.
[1] https://www.miele.co.uk/e/refrigeration-1022129-c
https://www.failscout.co/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30335314
I did have a problem with the ice maker freezing up, but reading the service manual figured out that the drain heater just needed to be tweaked a bit (it also doesn't hurt to turn off the ice maker when nobody is going to use ice for a while)
Considering the possibility of my refrigerator doing finishing moves is an extra bonus.
It's not very efficient, when it comes to power consumption.
But the freezer is huge, and works for this family.
I have a Samsung fridge that came with the house. The ice has built up twice in 6 months and needed to be left unplugged and open for it to thaw to prevent a loud noise.
Now it is leaky at one of the legs.
It is much larger than a traditional fridge and the coils are not visible. I believe they are behind a panel at the back (bottom) of the fridge.
Ideally the coils would be easily accessible so they can be cleaned periodically.
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-counter-depth-f...
Now I don't know if LG is actually better nowadays, but it is one of those interesting marketing tactics that must have paid dividends for LG because it is still the first thing I think of when I think about buying white appliances.
Also, I don't actually recommend this heuristics. Just thought it could be an interesting data point :)
From what I can tell these days even reputable brands have bad models and spotty quality. So I’d just try to spend as little as possible and screen for any stand out problems before buying.
note that the appliance industry is incestuous as fuck. it's basically a cabal of six selling stuff at all price points. see here: http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml
Switched to a modest (no gimmick) Haier. Love it. Simple, quiet, easy to clean.
Hitachi and LG have worked fine for us, but it's been less than 10 years.