I quit my job last March and it was a bad idea.

745 points by mannicken ↗ HN
Hey guys.

I created this (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2374271).

Well, I did quit my full-time job. I wish I could say it was 'the best single thing I've ever done' or 'why haven't I done it earlier' but I'm not going to say it. Just to offer the other side of the perspective. And because it wouldn't be honest and I don't give nearly enough fuck to be dishonest. Yeah, seriously, what do I have to lose?

It was a bad idea. I moved back with my parents, my freelancing thing barely works, I'm constantly broke, on the verge of poverty, I'm deeply depressed and contemplating suicide. I have to constantly hear my father shout what an idiot I am for quitting a high-paying job. My friends make fun of me for making a retarded life decision. I can't really do anything else, since apparently finding a new job, is kind of hard and I have to go through the whole step where I admit my failure and start over and I don't even know what I want anymore.

I thought I would become free, but I've actually become less free as a result of it.

Essentially, shit is very hard and I barely have any idea on how to get out of this mess. What doesn't make it any easier is that I'm 20, I have no college diploma, no high school diploma, no idea what the fuck is going on.

I'm an idiot, essentially. This post serves mainly as a warning for those who could be in the same position, contemplating quitting. It's not as much fun as you think. It's not like Office Space. I'm not saying you shouldn't quit, but you should really put more thought into it.

And fuck, I even had enough savings for four months after quitting. I thought a lot of things through, includes finances etc. I even managed to live by myself for the entire four months until I finally gave in and couldn't pay the rent.

It just didn't work out and it feels very painful.

349 comments

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  I'm deeply depressed and contemplating suicide
If you are having suicidal thoughts then please talk to someone about that now. There are lots of people you can talk to.

No matter where you are you can visit http://www.befrienders.org/

To add to that, you might also find help on reddits suicidewatch:

reddit.com/r/suicidewatch

You get a pass for linking something that might be a laugh. He needs cheering up.
Contribute something he hasn't heard a thousand times from after school specials. Seriously. Harsh but necessary.
A few years ago I was in a really similar situation. Now I'm fine, but in that period I called those guys at http://www.befrienders.org It really helped me. (sorry for my bad english) Creativity saved me, not necessarly BIG creativity. I was helped being creative, and now I'm really fine. I hope this helps.
I can't stress enough what good advice that is.
Reposting this comment which was made by a dead account: "A few years ago I was in a really similar situation. Now I'm fine, but in that period I called those guys at http://www.befrienders.org It really helped me. (sorry for my bad english) Creativity saved me, not necessarly BIG creativity. I was helped being creative, and now I'm really fine. I hope this helps."
Did you ever see the Malcolm in the Middle episode where Lois tries to use therapist techniques such as parroting on Malcolm? (S5E15 - page 6 http://www.malcolminthemiddle.co.uk/episodes/transcripts/eng... ) There's another (S2E8) where Malcolm fakes a breakdown so he can get out of a dorky class thing by talking to the school counselor. (Ed: I don't mean this as evidence, just a comedic primer for the general idea.)

I think a lot of people who read HN are in the same pseudo-category. They're smarter than the people they'd talk to. They don't need someone to listen because they can talk/write to themselves--some people find that scary to do, and talking with others is very helpful! And for volunteer things it's incredibly likely a person on HN knows more about psychology than the volunteer and can help themselves more-so by learning about why they feel the way they feel instead of repeating stuff they already say to themselves to a passive listener who may just repeat it back. I think a lot of therapy is about helping people to introspect, but the tech-crowd members tend to do that on their own. I'd rather talk to an actual friend who physically cares (as opposed to abstractly cares like a volunteer or someone you pay) anyway.

This comment completely misses the point about depression. A person who is actually depressed is likely to need assistance navigating out of that state. Being smart etc. isn't the cure.
I agree smartness isn't sufficient for a cure, and sometimes drugs are necessary, but neither is just "talking to someone" which is what Befrienders states: "We work worldwide to provide emotional support, and reduce suicide. We listen to people who are in distress. We don't judge them or tell them what to do - we listen." I'm certain what they do is a good idea but I think it's just a cached piece of advice that works well for most people.

If you can talk to the right person, then sure, it's going to help more than talking to yourself. The right people are few and far between even among paid therapists, some of which are paid commissions on how many drug prescriptions they give, and a random person is incredibly unlikely to be the right person. Where smartness comes in handy is that a smart person can do the relevant research for their particular case.

My own opinion is that a lot of the "best practices" and so on are aimed mainly at extroverts, and similarly educational practices are aimed at whatever majority group of student-types you can describe there. (Techniques hackers would love in school don't seem to work well on the general population.)

No, just no. Having a sympathetic person listen and provide good advice can be extremely valuable. And these things do not require anything but the attention of someone who cares, who maybe has gone through the same thing. These people are not few and far between, and they are not random.

Also, therapists cannot prescribe drugs. No one with the ability to write a prescription calls themselves a therapist. And I seriously doubt that anyone who can prescribe drugs gets paid a commission for doing so. That would almost certainly be considered a massive ethics violation.

Sorry about the wrong term, though I think it was clear from context. s/paid therapist/psychiatrist practicing psychotherapy/.

If you don't believe the medical industry suffers from the same problems as the political industry, with "sales reps" taking on the roles of "lobbyists", you should do some googling. Here's a nice database: http://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/

There's a lot of difference between a therapist and a psychiatrist. There's even more difference between getting paid on commission and being wooed by lobbyists. Having doctors influenced by lobbyists is almost certainly a negative overall, but it's nowhere close to having doctors literally paid on commission for writing prescriptions.
"As part of that promotion, Allergan provided kickbacks to doctors in the form of cash, travel, and meals and held seminars instructing physicians on how to bill Medicare for off-label procedures. "

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/september/settlement-in...

If the FBI prosecutes for it, it doesn't really count. That's kind of like saying you can't eat at a restaurant because some chefs poison their customers. Sure, but it's illegal and not the typical state of affairs.

I don't believe that kickbacks are common (I'll change my stance if evidence shows that they are wide-spread), even for on-label uses. I'm pretty sure they're still considered a serious ethics violation and probably illegal.

I'm sure you're right.

A slightly different twist: a friend of mine is a pharmacist and he was decrying the end of free lunches provided by pharma companies after he finished first year (a few years ago). The influence of drug companies may exert is a recognized problem, even where it doesn't take the cash for prescription model (that I agree with you is probably illegal but I haven't looked into it). I do think it's likely though that there are creative ways out there that drug companies have come up with to encourage prescriptions.

Being too smart for your own good can lead to depression in the first place. To get out of that trap you often do need someone to talk to that offers a different perspective. Intelligence is not the issue here. Experience is.
When someone says that they are suicidal it is imperative they speak to qualified professionals who can assess the situation and potentially avert disaster. your comment is unhelpful.
But is that advice only given because nobody would dare not to give that advice?
Wish I could upvote this more than once. For those of you who want to, you can upvote two posts now!
I lost a fraternity brother to suicide. Please find help, you have no idea how many people will miss you.
It's really great to hear someone follow up on a previous post

For what it's worth, I still think you did the right thing. That job obviously wasn't going anywhere and sounded pretty miserable. Perhaps your mistake wasn't the quitting but the freelancing over taking another job, and the option is still open to you.

So the freelancing thing hasn't worked out for you. Perhaps taking a full-time job, even for a short period, will be enough to get you back living independently, build up some savings, make some new contacts, have a social life, and perhaps eventually even build a product business in your spare time. Give the freelance thing another go in a year or two? You've undoubtedly learnt plenty of lessons which will help you the next time.

Obviously he did NOT do the right thing. There is nothing wrong with admitting a mistake. But it was not an entire loss - he was able to grow with the experience and realize that the lifestyle being sold isn't for everybody. Right, it is NOT for everybody. My advice is that he follows through his new found learning and tries to go back to a job. He is a more mature person now, and will be able to find one eventually.
If you actually read my comment, you'll see I also encouraged him to go back to a full-time job.
It's still not obvious to me that quitting the job was the wrong choice. The mistake was what he did afterward in failing to find an alternative source of income. It's a common mistake to quit without an adequate plan, so that is a good lesson learned.
I was feeling really sad for you until I read this: What doesn't make it any easier is that I'm 20

Relax. Get a job at the supermarket, or anything that will pay the bills for now. Figure out your main gig slowly on the side. If you share more about your freelancing work, people here might be able to help you out.

I have to agree with this. At the moment you are under a lot of stress and not thinking straight because you have no cash and no idea what you want to do. You need something to level you, get you back to a a place where you can at least pay rent, pay some bills, and decide what you really want as a career.

There is nothing wrong with taking a position where the work doesn't really require much thought or have great prospects down the line. It doesn't sound like that's what you need right now, you would beenfit from some time and a bit more security. Then use those free eveings you have after work to figure out what's next.

Hey man, first of all get out of those suicidal thoughts , you're still young , you havent seen much, yeah life is hard , i agree , but life is more worth it, just think about your parents and loved ones , enough of it , coming to the advice revorad gave really good advice, you have just reached 20 , you got lot of life ahead of you. For now join a supermarket , if possible try joining some tech company even if its a small ,low paying job, it will help you pay your bills and being in the industry , you'll know what's going on in the market and you'll also improve your contacts.
Exactly, right? I mean, I read that and thought "I'd kill OP to be 20 again".

20... no job, no ambition, no problems.

I have to disagree. The fact that he's 20 does not lessen his depression. Depression comes when your status in life is drastically lowered. It comes from moving down the pecking order. It's relative. In other words, if all you've ever had is a job working as a cashier in a supermarket, you may not feel as depressed as if you had a job as an IT manager and got demoted to desktop support--or got laid off. He did have a high-paying IT job and now seems to have nothing. Yes, he's young and can get back in the game easier, but the way he feels is human tendency.
Depression comes when your status in life is drastically lowered.

I thought that depression was the result of a chemical imbalance. It might be worthwhile to seek the help of a healthcare professional to help treat it before it gets any worse.

Hey,

I think the most important thing for you to do now, is to get rid of the depressed and suicide thoughts. It sure helps to talk to people about it.

I'm rather messed up as well, as I gave up several well paying jobs to pursue my own startup dreams which eventually failed and I went the freelancing route which didn't work out too.

Speaking to people about my situation lifted my mood considerably and I urge that you do the same too.

Sort out those emotional issues first, and slowly plan to get your career back on track. Suicide won't solve anything.

Get better soon dude.

You are still so young and have so much time.
Please don't do anything to hurt yourself. If you need support, call 1-800-273-TALK (National Suicide Prevention Lifeline).

On another note: is it possible to get a part-time cashier job and go to community college? (I know you don't have a HS diploma but I'm under the impression that some CCs have programs for that.) An community college degree will give you some type of education certification that employers appreciate.

You seem well-spoken and you were able to hold a job at a high-pressure company before. I hope you will find greater success soon. I am rooting for you.

"A lot of the barriers are in your head ;-)"

-mannicken, 17 days ago

Also consider light therapy -- a quick look at your profile indicates that you're in Seattle, and SAD sneaks up on you pretty quick this time of year. Now is when it's starting to hit hard. Although some people get it more than most, many people are affected by it at least to some degree.

A light therapy lamp has given me the best return on investment of any product I have purchased ever. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C15P7A/

Not to mention that Seattle is a depressing place to begin with...
I think you're being tough on yourself. You're not an idiot, you just took a risk that didn't pay off, but that's part of how we learn.

Looking back at your other post that was a shitty situation and the desire to get out of there must have been pretty strong. Maybe I'm wrong but when you're under that sort of pressure and that unhappy, any alternative can look good and it can be hard to work out what the right way forward is.

Personally I'd look back at what was happening before you quit and why you quit. Understand that, understand that decision and what you can learn from it. Then look at what happened after you quit and what you can learn from that.

Then take all that and draw a line under it. Seriously, learn what you can and move on. There is nothing to be gained by beating yourself up so take those lessons and start looking at what you do next and how you can avoid repeating the situation.

But genuinely thanks for posting this. I think sometimes it's easy to get carried away with the whole "quit, go it alone" ethos and not see the other side. The reality is that most small businesses and start ups struggle or fail, and freelancing can be tough, especially at first, so it's a realistic chance that if you go out on your own then that'll be the situation you face. Sometimes we forget that so while it's been painful for you, hopefully someone else will benefit.

Fingers crossed that you manage to take this experience and turn it into something useful.

tell your dad to go fuck himself for not understanding that taking a risk for a life changing decision is something that shuold be encouraged in the young. Some people are born to never try anything, others dare and get burnt. The point is you tried, that makes you better than me. I applaud people who try and fail wheras I pity people who do not. You picked a fight against all odds and lost - ask your dad how much hes lost on lotteries. The point is you have time to rebuild. As for friends, find the funny side - that is their purpose in life. If they arnt building you up then im afraid they ain't your friends. You need tears of win my friend.

You are 20 ... no offence but your still a kid ofc you have no idea whats going on. welcome to the world, you define yourself - if your parents are being assholes you need to move out before they damage you with their expectations of you. They are only mad because you didn't do what they wanted - because you 'owe' it to them. Really they owe you an apology for birthing you if they want to own you. Doing what you did shuold show them that they did a good job, you felt ready to go out and try something. You saved money and invested it - it was a bad investment but at least you tried. If you try again i bet you will realise that 4 months is actually VERY little time. Go read about poker bankrolls and varience.

I was practically a hobo at 20, im not much now but i have created a career for myself by hitting rock bottom, looking about and saying fuck this im gonna teach myself to program and then blag my way into jobs for a few years untill i really know what im doing. 11 years later things are very different - I had no hope back then.

PLEASE DON'T CONSIDER SUICIDE. PLEASE.

The feeling that all doors are closed is ALWAYS misleading. There is always an open door, alas maybe you don't see it today, or tomorrow, but it's there. The one thing you should do is to find ASAP someone who never shouts at you, who is not blaming you, and who is cab listen and consider the options. THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS. YOU WILL GET OUT no matter how unrealistically it looks right now.

Contribute something he hasn't heard a thousand times from after school specials. Seriously. Harsh but necessary.
You're 20? You have your whole life ahead of you, get back on the grind and make it happen! It may feel hopeless now, but I assure you it's not. I'd bet you have skills that other people would love to have, you just need to figure out how to better apply them.

Don't give up, hard work pays off, I was in your exact situation or worse when I was your age :) (I'm 23 now and have turned it around)

Oh, and parents say things like that, ignore or fight them, it doesn't matter, just don't let it get to you. If you have friends that make fun of you, you are either misinterpreting what they are saying or they are not actually your friends. In the latter case, get rid of these people, they are harmful to your psyche.

Get in touch if you need more help, talk to the people around you too, people care more than you expect

Contribute something he hasn't heard a thousand times from after school specials. Seriously. Harsh but necessary.
Sometimes it takes an actual person who has actually experienced this to tell you for it to actually click, I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense to you.
And it takes an actual person who has actually experienced this to tell you boilerplate "Cheer up champ! People love you! Get help!" comments are worthless. Check.
So instead we should adopt your attitude and lash out at everyone on this page trying to help? I've been in this situation as well and can closely relate to what he has said. I'm 31 now but life seemed pretty hopeless when I was 20 with few options. I also chose to move back home and went back to school for a few years and then was able to freelance and got lucky. I also had pressure issues with my Dad. These things happen to other people too. It's boilerplate because it works. Nobody is saying "cheer up", I'm reading more "hang in there" from the comments. The struggle is necessary in order to get to a stage where you are able to see the situation with perspective.
So... what do you do? When you're freelancing? I'm 25-30 and did the same thing back in January. Same deal, high school "equivalency", no college degree (two degrees worth of units, no focus), had a job, decided to stop going.

Hit me up, auto24842127@hushmail.com Maybe we have complimentary skill sets? Can we make this work? Or let's just bitch. Do not kill yourself.

it surprises me that you are 20 years old. from your previous post i thought you were somewhat older.

what does your resume besides the company you quit look like?

do you have a degree? are you looking for jobs but having a hard time getting interview invitations?

I'm old. So seriously 20 is no age, you've your whole life ahead of you. Don't do anything stupid, is there someone other than your parents you can have a chat with. It's an old cliche, but a problem shared is a problem halved.
Hey, do you think that you are the only one that had (has) big problems? No hell no, think of it as you are lucky, you are still young, you have your health the rest are just small things. And never think again of suicide, that's not an option, that's a way to say you are afraid of live, you didn't gave life to you, so you should not take it as well, you are granted with it. Reach out to freelancing sites, www.freelancer.com or others make an account and starting posting on each job you find lower your rates for the first couple of projects until you get some feedback. Put up a portfolio and you will see that within a month if you do this full time you will for sure get some work. Oh and yes, in the meantime you can search for a job. Waiting for stuff to pop up from no where will not happen and think of this as a life test, don't fail it. Good luck
I can relate to some of your feelings. It sounds go me like you are burned out and are questioning your chosen career path. The uncertainy of freelan cing can be a lot to handle when you are already not feeling at the top of your game. Don't worry, Jou left an unhealthy environment, that was a good move. You will figure out the rest. Give youself a break, getting over burnout takes time.

Drop me a line, I run a mobile dev shop and I have a lot of well-paying web, Android and iPhone work. I provide on-the-job training as well.

You should try define yourself by overcoming failure and learning from it.

expand your skill set; build your resume by doing something interesting/possibly valuable to future employers; connect with local small business/startups to find work (while taking on a shitty job somewhere if you have to)

you've got some time start using it and stop beating yourself up

you should also consider getting a GED

Considering how crappy your previous job sounded, I don't think the people around you really understand how bad it was.

That being said, like someone pointed out, you're only 20 and still have tons of time and energy to expend on something you truly want to work on. It's easier for me to say this than for you to do it, but you need to find something deep inside that will give you the resiliency to keep fighting and working on what you believe in. I know it's difficult to shut out the naysayers, but that's precisely what you need to have the ability to do if you want to be able to build a startup.

Honestly, if you think staying at your previous job was going to make you happier, I think you're deluding yourself. Not saying it's all flowers and sunshine on this side, but I think you can take heart in the fact that you're actually trying to pursue true happiness compared to many other people who know they're unhappy with their lives, but are too afraid to make a change because they're too comfortable with their lifestyle and the status quo. It won't be easy, but there's almost nothing in life that is easy. Take comfort in the fact that there are tons of us out there struggling like you are but are still fighting and scrapping along. Fight and don't give up. You're not the only one :)

Btw, some smart person once said "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" Cross that option off hour list and get some help. Suicide hotline, nearby mental health professionals are both good options.
Contribute something he hasn't heard a thousand times from after school specials. Seriously. Harsh but necessary. -1 for anonymous quote.
Stop griping you fucking moron and go out and find another job, or be a gigolo, or rob a bank. Anything, just stop sobbing like a twist
I'm almost in your position, not through choice though. I have an absolutely wonderful gig about to come to an end (unless I get renewed, but it's unlikely) and will never be able to get back to where I am now (I'm also 20 as of last week). No college, no education and not skilled enough to be in demand.

Fun fun fun eh.

From reading your first post I think your decision to quit was the right one. You're clearly an intelligent and motivated person who made a bold decision in pursuit of something you are passionate about and will find more meaningful and worthwhile. - Plus the fact it sounded like a shit place to work. You're still young and you're still finding your feet. Stick with it. Don't give up. Believe in yourself.

I agree with hopeless and revorad in the sense that taking any form of work to bring in some income for the time being will help you hugely and will get your father off your back. I know my father would go ape at me too. Simply use it as motivation to prove him wrong along with everyone else that makes fun of you. Work your hardest at what you believe in and money will come later.

One last thing to note - networking is key, get out and get yourself as many contacts as you can, contacts make the world go round. You'd be surprised how much and how far you can get just by talking to people.

Good luck!

This is when you toughen yourself up. You're lucky you get to learn this now when you don't have to look after anyone else. Life is hard, but it gets easier with practice.

Do make sure you get sleep, good food and exercise because this fuels your brain and that is your greatest asset.

Time to level up on your life. Do what it takes and you will be amazed by your new capabilities a year from now.

You've already done what so many don't do: admit to their mistakes.

You are right to say others shouldn't rush into quitting their day job. Anything where you have to move back in with your parents and eat your savings isn't an easy decision. It's easy to get caught up in all these success stories on TechCrunch and Hacker News, when, in reality, they are a very small percentage of people.

However, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And while it hasn't worked out for you financially, it doesn't mean you haven't learnt from the whole experience. You will be wiser next time to the process of going at it alone - this isn't a bad thing.

I quit my job at 23 to start my own company and, while it is for me, I think at our age it doesn't matter if it doesn't work out. I imagine it's the same for you: I have no kids, no partner, no responsibilities that require a stable income other than rent. There is no better time to experiment really.

I can understand you're finding it difficult to get back into the job market: what are your skills? Perhaps we could suggest a few things?

If getting your high-school diploma is important to you, think about going back to get the grades. You are older and wiser now, you will do well.

We are young enough to make these mistakes. Decide what you want to do and go for it.