Ask HN: Ethics of a carnivore diet?

If you can afford to source meat grown with regenerative agriculture you can be doing something positive both for the environment and your health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYLWy3hkH2Y

This has been excellent for my own health. I'm working my way through a grass fed cow I bought from a local rancher. It's quite pleasant work. In a year and a half of carnivory I've lost 75 excess pounds, all of my diabetes symptoms, and several inflammatory complaints.

I eat meat, but I doubt I would kill an animal to do so.

The carbon footprint of eating meat is a thing, but I don't know... doesn't have the ring of importance.

If you think you can treat an autoimmune disorder by eating a lot of meat, then why not try it? Just bear in mind that it is in other ways harmful to your health compared to vegetarianism [citation needed].

Something to keep in mind is that from a purely utilitarian standpoint, eating vegetarian 9 times out of 10 is 90% as good for the planet as doing so 10/10 times. There's no utility bonus for being a gold star vegetarian. So don't feel as if you have to choose between being a "real" vegetarian, and being a full-on carnivore - best effort is better than nothing!

Look this isn't the answer you want but no amount of meat is ethical. A living being has to die and there's no way to justify that that doesn't lean into some kind of cop out supremacist argument.

Nutritionally, it's been shown again and again that plant based diets are healthier than meat eating diets. And not just that, but there is actual science to back this up. Compare the science for plant based diets (https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/veganscience/) to the basically non-existent studies regarding human carnivore diets.

I'd highly recommend having a start here for some general resources: https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/index/

It's better for yourself, the planet, and the animals to be open to going down this route. Don't buy into the weird unscientific propoganda from the carnivore club, look at the research, and question why you're concerned about the ethics of meat eating to begin with and maybe explore that to the fullest extent.

I don't know about ethics, as such, but you, as a consumer, can make decisions that are better than others. For example: it's better for your health to eat pasture-raised, free-range animals (and stay well away from feedlot raised). The nutrition profile of the meat is much better. Try buying from a butcher instead of a supermarket, and you'll be supporting a small business and probably get better product. Buy good quality and have it less frequently, than buy poor quality and eat it every day.

Ethics aside, you can do compensatory actions in another area. Tree planting, habitat rehabilitation, eschew car ownership and take the bus/bike/walk, invest in renewables, donate to or volunteer at environmental charities, volunteer etc. To be effective, I guess link your meat consumption to your compensation. Eg: every 1kg of steak donate $2, or 10kg plant a tree, or whatever ...

You also aren't obliged to eat meat all the time. Why not just twice a week?

Disclaimer: lives on a farm in AU, eat our own meat, lives in an eco house, off grid, with an ambitious tree planting program. AMA if you want.

You are starting from an assumption it is unethical barring some exceptions. That is false.

What exactly is your diagnosis? What autoimmune issues do you have?

I did this for a month and it was great as far as feeling better. I’m someone who’s had annoying, uncomfortable psoriasis and to be honest it was already going away for about 1.5 months prior to starting carnivore. This was the only diet that I was able to stick to after 5 days of an adjustment period. Bulletproof coffee, athletic greens, vitamin d and turmeric supplements along with the meat meals usually cooked with duck fat and decent quality salt. Try and find coffee that’s not too acidic if you’re a into caffeine. My heartburn/acid reflux went away and skin itching regressed as well. I also didn’t crash throughout the day and my sleep was great. I didn’t think twice about emissions when it came to trying to get my body to a better place. Maybe you can do something passively if you really want to. If you have stubborn autoimmune issues you may need to keep it going for 3 months to get an accurate read on if you’re improving. Good luck with whatever you end up going with!

What you do as an individual is microscopic compared to what corporations do. You are going to punish yourself for what - for big corp to continue to destroy the world.

If you really want to see change politicians need to do the work, not you.

If you're only worried about environmental impact, I suppose you could try doing something with carbon offsets?

If you also care about animal suffering, some foods have much more impact than others, see e.g. https://thinkbynumbers.org/utilitarianism/direct-suffering-c...

Who cares about emissions, seriously? Imagine millions of humans were being slaughtered instead of animals. I'm glad you're thinking about this, but the big problem with eating meat is not emissions, it's the suffering of millions of sentient beings.

For all others: Please go ahead and downvote this comment. You're not a lion hunting prey for food. You're just a guy buying a dead animal at a store.

As for your original question, I became a vegetarian 5 years ago and it's only had a positive impact on my health.

I like the flavor of meat, but as an environmental move, I'm willing to use meat as a flavoring - rather than as meal's centerpiece lump.

Just to have a true and simple statement: I don't have any ethics about eating. Maybe attention for health and taste.

There is also evidence to suggest that diets with lots of vegetables are good for auto-immune disease by lowering inflammation.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight/...

Have you tried the Mediterranean diet?

The most ethical diet that includes meat, in my opinion, is eating mostly plants and then hunting your own meat. Most people also don’t need nearly as much meat as they think they do. 1-2 servings per week could be sufficient - which could be easily covered by fishing or hunting a few times per year and then freezing.

In reading through the 34 comments I don't see any mention of going longer without food (fasting) to address autoimmune and inflammation issues.[0]

Ethics: the best I can say is "that's cultural", and often personal. We're all doing whatever we want, and sometimes our values align enough to get along for a long time. I ate a lot of meat for about a year (or so; I didn't keep a log) and then stopped for a couple reasons, including environmental impact. I grew up on a farm, I've butchered animals and eaten them, I've hunted, and I see every living creature as an individual person worthy of respect. And still I kill them. If we were more honest about this when we go to war I think we'd be better off, rather than all the othering and dehumanizing that is so effective.[1]

My internet-stranger advice would be to practice going without food for longer and longer (it took me about two months to go past the ~48 hours when autophagy starts; I paced myself so I could keep an even keel at work (parenting/homemaking)), and then break your fast with an amazing meal, starting with foods high in fiber (something about how the food progresses through the intestines, and absorbing nutrients, and not spiking insulin), and including whatever you want (I only want high-quality, healthy food for these meals, maybe ending with more carbohydrates at the end). Meat seems like a reasonable inclusion if eating fewer meals. Fasting and feasting is different than calorie restriction; the former I find empowering and self-respecting, the latter I found torturous.

In any case, I hope you figure it out, and good luck!

References: [0] Life in the Fasting Lane, by Jason Fung, Eve Mayer, and Megan Ramos

[1] On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, by Dave Grossman