HN Explorer

Ask HN: Recommendation for high refresh rate, premium, non-gaming Monitor?

25 points by recvonline ↗ HN
Ever since I own a MacBook Pro M1 Max, I have a hard time plugging it into an external monitor. I currently own a "basic" Dell 4k, 27" one, but both the colours and the high refresh rate from the MacBook spoiled me.

I tried to search for premium monitors with a high-refresh rate, but can only find gaming monitors. What is the HN crowd using? Anyone in the same boat as me and solved it for them?

48 comments

[ 1.0 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] thread
capableweb
Every few years, I take a look at bunch of monitors to see if there is something better out there, but I always return to Benq's panels as I've never found something better. I think they are a bit on the more expensive side, but taking into account I spend a lot of time looking at the screen, it should be a good one.

With that said, I've never used any of the "high-refresh rate" ones and also I'm not really sure what is considered a "high-refresh rate" one (above 60?), but here are some I found:

- https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/gaming/ex3210u.html

- https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/gaming/ex2780q.html

- https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/gaming/ex3415r.html

They are labeled "gaming" monitors, but I think that's just because of the high refresh-rate. Not sure if there is any other difference but some features (like AMD FreeSync), why they avoidance of monitors labeled "gaming" specifically, if I may ask?

Personally I use the Benq Designer panels, because the color is more important for me than the refresh-rate, but those don't seem to be available with high refresh-rate.

recvonline
Because all „gaming monitors“ I looked at looked bulky and huge! I want a slim design, 120Hz and no built-in webcam!

Thanks for the links!

capableweb
Ah, yeah, I think most of Benq's monitors are bulky and big (which personally I like, I want it to stand very still and be stable), unfortunately.
EricE
Will second this - for the money the BenQ panels are hard to beat. But I always seem to end up with Dell panels. I have an over six year old Dell U3011 32" 2560x1600 panel and other than not having variable refresh is still a great panel. And the few times I have had support issues Dell has always been pleasant to work with whereas Asus, Benq and other more consumer oriented companies tend to force you through a morass of automated systems/forums/email/chat which can be a huge time sink. If there are two similar monitors and even if Dell is 20% more I'll buy the Dell. However if you aren't in a hurry, Dell runs amazing sells or you can get incredible deals through their refurbished site. Indeed the 32" monitor I referenced above was going for $1400 and I got it for $800 "refurbished" - as far as I could tell someone got it, opened the box and just returned it without even taking it out. Either that or Dell did an amazing job repackaging it.
Poiesis
Sounds like an Apple Studio Display would perfect for you.
wecler
Consider looking at https://www.rtings.com/monitor.

I've also got an Macbook Pro and I decided to buy Acer Nitro XV272UKV for my dual setup but I wouldn't recommend them if someone is about to use them next to each other.

cmer
LG just released a 42” OLED tv I’ve been considering using as a monitor. It’s model C2. I know it’s a bit unusual but it might be worth looking into!
atom_arranger
Been trying to use a C1 with my M1 MacBook. I think I'm going to return it.

  - There's no way to get above 60hz.
  - Have to use an HDMI connector because the C1 doesn't support thuderbolt or displayport.
  - The sound doesn't work for some reason.
  - The TV features get in the way a bit, menu overtop of things when you turn it on.
This is all kind of Apple's fault for not including HDMI 2.1 support.

I might get something referenced on this site: https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/

EricE
Just get a USB-C/Thunderbolt HDMI adapter that supports 120Hz - like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Function-Resolution-Thunderbo...

The nice thing about having expansion ports is you aren't restricted to what Apple bundles with the machine.

atom_arranger
Unfortunately there is something preventing this from working, not entirely sure what.

A lot of people have tried, and nobody has gotten 4k@120hz working on an M1 over HDMI (or a cable converted to HDMI).

EricE
Now that you mention it, I have had a lot better luck with Display Port than I have with HDMI - will have to go to a friend that has a high refresh monitor and test out my display port hub.
pandemicsyn
Can you say what refresh rate you're wanting? You said "high refresh rate", i assume you're not looking for a 240hz setup, which would probably be a waste in a non-gaming setup. Guessing above 60hz is game? If so, you might like some of the Asus ProArt displays. My spouse has one of the 32" ProArts it's a solid display.

Regardless rtings.com is your friend here they have a pretty decent size review db. fwiw - I wouldn't rule out a monitor just because its a "gaming monitor".

Diti
OP mentioned owning a MacBook Pro M1 Max, so I would say the wanted refresh rate would be 120 Hz.
EricE
I'm typing on one of those right now and I can say 120Hz is RARE. Even in Safari, as I am now, it's not doing 120Hz. Yeah, the hardware is capable of it, but the software doesn't deliver - at least right now.

So I'm with others - not sure what the OP thinks he's seeing, but the refresh probably isn't as significant as he thinks it is. I think he would have a much greater impact from higher resolution and deeper color coverage than chasing after refresh. Especially if he's not gaming.

DIVx0
Since you have a Macbook Pro and you want a premium experience your only real options right now are new Studio Displays, Apple XDR or LG5k.

For whatever reasons MacOS or the hardware does not perform well unless you using screens that are near or the same PPI as laptop display. Using a 4k monitor will result in some scaling artifacts.

With that said, I know a lot of people who use 4k monitors with their MBPs with no complaint however I also know the reverse who can't stand it. I'm with the latter camp and use a LG5k which is just an OK monitor but everything is crystal clear.

jiripospisil
All of those are 60Hz max.
giobox
In fairness, the connectivity standards that can support the data overhead of 5k/120hz aren't all that wide spread yet. Even thunderbolt 4 doesn't have the bandwidth for uncompressed 5k at 120hz. It's only just possible in certain circumstances on the latest HDMI 2.1 and DisplayPort 2.0 specs really. If you want 5k, it's going to be 60hz for now.

Given OP thinks his MacBook spoiled him with "high refresh" (its just a standard 60hz panel...), I'm not sure the OP really understands refresh rates in modern monitors! The Dell they already have is almost certainly 60hz too, despite claims the MacBook is faster.

giobox
The scaling artifacts are no different at 4k compared to running an MBP at "non-native" retina resolutions - its the same problem/issue, if you are sensitive.

For what its worth, Apple have shipped many MacBook Pros at "non-native" resolutions by default for years, so... The 15 inch for years was a 2880 x 1800 panel, which is only Retina native at an equivalent of 1440x900. Apple shipped them in the non-2x 1680x1050 mode by default.

The same is also true of the current 13inch M1 MacBooks 2560 x 1600 (1280x800 at 2x), but apple run them out of the box at non-2x 1440x900.

All of this is to say not even Apple themselves stick to "2x retina" only resolutions on their own laptop hardware - running a 4k monitor at non-2x retina scales isn't that much different, and most people will be perfectly happy with scaled resolutions on a 4k 27 inch panel or similar in my experience on macOS.

emteycz
Yeah but pixel density makes this non-issue on Apple panels. 4K on 27" or more is a whole another story.
giobox
* 2560x1440 at 27 inch: 109 ppi

* 4k at 27 inch: 163 ppi

* 5k at 27 inch: 218 ppi

I've ran both 5k and 4k monitors on a variety of macOS machines in the 27inch size class - its not nearly as bad "a whole another story". Its almost exactly the same story - especially as demonstrated Apple don't stick to the "only 2x is retina" plan either.

Yes 5k is better, but 4k is still well above the industry standard of 100ppi for non-retina displays, and will look just fine for most people in macOS rendering the same usable 2560x1440 desktop.

emteycz
Well no, text looks blurry. I know it's a SW limitation, but it does. I'm sitting in front of it right now (27" 4K display connected to a Mac).

Windows look crispy clear with this display.

nebula8804
Be Wary of ASUS Proart Displays. They have beautiful panels. But everything around them is a PITA.

1. Long bootup time. You are waiting 30 secs to see the ASUS logo and it to initialize.

2. M1 based machines have trouble initializing/re-initializing them after sleep. This is probably a bug in the monitor or maybe the M1 macs. Its annoying when you combine it with the previous issue because to fix this issue you have to switch to a different input or turn the monitor off and on once a day. I have resorted to setting my sleep delay to 3 hours to prevent it going to sleep.

3. The stands are not always the best: things can get wobbly if you are using a cheap table like an Ikea table.

4. The process of changing input can require multiple key presses depending on model.

5. Many of them have super thin bezels(apart from the large ASUS chin at the bottom): looks great but be careful as if you even place the panel gently face down for a second just to wipe the dust off the back you risk cracking the panel(ask me how I know).

6. Terrible speakers (I guess this was a given but i'll throw it in there)

....but they do ship beautiful panels.

On a side note: I am downright fed up with all these "youtube reviewers" never covering any of these quality of life features. I spend hundreds of dollars just to feel like chump when I get stuck with issues like this, none of which are ever discussed on Youtube. I have been burned so many times that I am considering just writing off their opinions altogether. Anyone else starting to feel like that?

netizen-936824
Are people actually spending huge amounts on a monitor and expecting good speakers?
nebula8804
The Mac speakers are superb. If competitors are charging 3-4 digits for their screens, is it too much to ask for them to at least match Apple or at the very least not include one of those speakers you find in a speaking greeting card?
sdflhasjd
> 2. M1 based machines have trouble initializing/re-initializing them after sleep.

I suspect this is an M1 thing. I just upgraded, and I've noticed some similar, by milder behaviour with my Dell monitors.

When the mac resumes from sleep, it occasionally has forgotten one of the screens, and although it initialises, all my window layout is shifted to one display.

NorwegianDude
High refresh rate? Maybe a Samsung G9 Neo? 240 Hz, good input latency and great HDR(2000 nits) for the price. That would be much smoother than the MacBook display with much less latency and ghosting.
sli
My first thought was my G7. It has an RGB lighting feature that's off by default, and a sticker on it showing G-Sync support that you can cleanly pull off, but I'm not sure why it being a "gaming" display makes any actual difference. 1440p, 240Hz, curved, it's a joy to use for everything.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
tapoxi
I picked up a 49" Samsung Odyssey ultrawide. It looks ridiculous but it's such a game changer. It's effectively two decent sized 4K screens glued together and is much nicer than the awkwardness of multiple displays. It's 144hz and supports HDR.

It has a picture-in-picture mode too, letting you effectively have two monitors for different inputs should you need that.

digisign
Specs say 1440 vertical pixels. Good for multitasking, ok but not great for portrait/scrolling content.
Diti
I think you might be interested in the Iiyama G-Master GB3467WQSU-B1. It is a 3440×1440 px, 34-inch monitor which works at 165 Hz with 0.4 ms response rate. It is a Vertical Alignment monitor, so its viewing angles and colors are less awesome than OLED or IPS (but still has an excellent mean ΔE of 2.3). It does not use Pulse-Width Modulation (if you are sensitive to that).

Its only big drawback (preventing me from buying it) is that I occasionally play competitive games, and that monitor has FreeSync but not G-Sync, and I use an Nvidia GPU.

Tabular-Iceberg
What applications besides gaming makes use of higher refresh rates?

Video seems to rarely go over 30 fps and even more rarely over 60 fps. What else involves fast motion? Rearranging windows and icons?

recvonline
Scrolling, navigating! It makes a huge difference once you are used to a higher refresh rate!
Tabular-Iceberg
Of course, I didn’t think of scrolling! Devs do that all the time. Now I want to try for myself.

It’s a huge problem how far behind the industry is on developer ergonomics. I had pay for my work monitor out of my own pocket because every place I’ve worked is still stuck with 1920x1080 potato-vision.

nwsm
Can you explain what non-gaming means and what your issues with the gaming monitors are?

Dell and BenQ are the best brands in my experience.

vuldin
There are several good recommendations (along with analysis and reasons) from the latest Hardware Unboxed video. This channel does a great job on all their hardware reviews, but they are the best when it comes to their display reviews. The video in the link below focuses on the best 4K displays as of April:

https://youtu.be/xoFXZa6Rfbw

cgdub
I use a gaming monitor with an inoffensive design and a monitor arm. You can't easily tell that it's a gaming monitor because I'm not using the ugly stand that came with the monitor.
theandrewbailey
For my gaming setup, I've been using 2 Samsung Odyssey G7 (model LS28AG700NNXZA) monitors for a few months. (28" 4k 144hz) After turning off the LEDs on the back, they don't give off obnoxious gamer vibes. They seem brighter and more saturated than any other displays I've used. Of course, the visuals are super smooth, both spatially and temporally. I haven't used them for any paid work, but I've been working on my blog with them. The only downside is that they have external power bricks. (Didn't monitors lose those 15 years ago?)

I don't know how they would work on Macs. There are monitors with the exact same specs from multiple manufacturers, and they all seem to use the same Innolux M280DCA-E7B panel. I looked at the equivalent 32" monitors, but a review or two said the 28" ones had less ghosting (AKA 'faster').

I'm 100% satisfied. I wonder when everyone else's ~24" 1080p60 monitors will look old and outdated to me.

digisign
> I wonder when ... ~24" 1080p60 monitors will look old and outdated

Already happened. Have had two 4k monitors for at least five years now, would not go back.