Ask HN: Food Addiction

52 points by magusd ↗ HN
I'm very obsessive and it makes me very susceptible to addictions. I have very poor moderation but I've got strong will power.

I was able to stopped smoking, drinking alcohol and playing video games by just getting rid of all the "paraphernalia" and quitting cold turkey. After a good year or so of complete abstinence, I was able to introduce those things back in my life and exercise moderation. I could drink socially and play video games without harming my work productivity, etc.

Now I'm struggling with food addiction, which ended up being my escape valve and receiving all my obsession after I quit everything else.

I've tried fasting and I was able to do 18h fasts daily with no problem and even go over a week without eating, just on water and herbal tea. But that completely messed up my habits, metabolism and relationship with food, and I'm now struggling to follow a schedule and any kind of diet.

So I was looking for a way to "quit food" without the unpleasant side effect of death. This is not about weight, I'm a bit overweight yes, but I exercise and am able to keep a decent shape. The real problem is that my blood work is starting to approach the higher ends of what is considered ok. And I'd love to avoid becoming diabetic and obese in my later life.

I'd love to know if anyone has been able to completely replace food with protein powders and vitamins, hospital liquid diet, or any other alternative. The idea here is to abstain from food for a full year and then restart eating normally with a light balanced diet with a nutritionist's help.

Has anyone done this or is familiar with the supporting science? What is recommended or non-obvious mistakes to avoid?

Thanks!

68 comments

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Let me suggest you likely have some kind of vitamin deficiency making you obsessive. Address that and your relationship to food may stop being so problematic.
Not a vitamin but NAC helps me with obsessive behaviors and changing habits.

Hilarious that the FDA threw a fit over it.

If you mean N-acetyl cysteine, it's a glutathione precursor. Glutathione is an important antioxidant critical to liver function, among other things.

Milk thistle (as a supplement) is a popular glutathione precursor. There are others but I don't remember them because milk thistle worked for me, so that's what I used.

How do you determine a safe dosage for a child?
I don't know. I'm not a child. I didn't give it to my children.

If I were trying to help a child, I would likely start by removing particleboard furniture and other sources of off-gassing from their environment as a means to lighten the load on their liver.

Though to be frank, I did that for me as well, on top of supplements because I was very sick at the time.

Anecdotally, I've been able to almost completely curb my lifelong nail-biting habit with NAC.
I’m not sure how to take this comment. I understand it’s probably coming from a good place but when has a vitamin deficiency ever been linked to obsessive tendencies? On its face, this comment was ripped right from Nextdoor or Facebook.
It was ripped from firsthand personal experience raising a child with obsessive tendencies who is much less crazy making these days.

Among other things.

After about a week or so, following a strict keto diet (<20 net carbs), destroys my compulsion for food. Something along the lines of, “Yeah I could eat, but I don’t _have_ to”. It does take willpower at first, but getting your body off of the sugar/carb craving can do wonders. Hit me up if you wanna chat more - email in my profile.
Strict keto is pretty extreme (in retrospect), but it did wonders teaching me how much I need to eat, when I need to eat, and what I should be eating. Recommended!

I eat something closer to a low-carb diet now (<100 net carbs) a day, and am super happy with it. I naturally gravitate away from consuming carb-intensive meals on a regular basis unless it is for a specific reason. I still eat and enjoy things like pasta and chips, but they no longer have the same pull they used to.

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Have you talked with a therapist?
And maybe get a blood checkup once you are at it, many nutrition deficiencies can be diagnosed this way in one go.
other then iron deposits, all is looking good. going to consult with an endocrinologist this month, this is more about removing the link between pleasure and nutrition.
I say this in a friendly way, it sounds like you're developing an eating disorder.

Maybe go see a doctor who deals in both nutrition and disordered eating, they exist, see what he or she thinks.

I can relate: stopped drinking alcohol in early 2020, and videogames are mostly social now, to stay in touch with a few good friends, and I still struggle with food. Practicing fasting helped me be able to go without the "safety blanket" of always having snacks in the car, for example. Because I have a young child, and a spouse who prefers to eat throughout the day, I'm still surrounded by food. When I'm feeling more stressed it is that much harder to stick to my narrower eating window. Coffee and fats help, and warm salty water.

I'd be wary of going without "real" food for a year. Fiber and plants in general feel like such an important part of my diet, and the pleasure of eating for an hour and feeling full of healthy food seems like a healthy part of life. Relegating sugar to a condiment at best is an important step toward being able to notice the compulsion to eat, and then do something else instead.

What you're proposing sounds interesting but also something I wouldn't opt for myself. Everyone is different, though, and we're for the most part free to try things. I keep a journal and that helps me be more aware and forgive myself when I don't do exactly what I'd prefer. Helps obviate regret.

My default at this point is to delay breakfast, ideally until mid-afternoon, and have one more meal a few hours later, with the family. Sometimes I skip that if I'm still full from the break-fast. It's taken months of practice, and I'm not as regimented as I'd like, but it's better than before.

I hope you find something that works.

I know someone who successfully got their food addiction under control via “FA” - see foodaddicts.org. Basically they put you on a strict food plan where you weigh & measure all parts of your meals and avoid sugar and any of your personal triggers, and you check in regularly with a sponsor like in AA. Not something I would want to do, but for one person I know who couldn’t get their eating under control, it worked really well.
If you want to do twelve step but find FA too rigid, you can also check out OA (Overeater's Anonymous). It doesn't have a set food plan; you come up with your own with the help of your sponsor and a nutritionist.
Take a look at bright line eating
Just do a carnivore / zerocarb diet, that's actually healthy (none of that liquid diet / powder nonsense).

Lots of people doing it are doing it for the same reasons as you, so you'll find support if you need it.

> I have very poor moderation but I've got strong will power.

There's a paradox in there. My suggestion would be to explore that.

Your problem doesn't lie in to what you're currently addicted to but the addiction and obessiveness as a whole. I have the same problem and when I stop myself from consuming something it just turns out that I have switched it with something else. I've been able to stop drinking, smoking, etc. but I've found other alternative sources of addiction in their place. I don't know how to solve the problem of addiction as a whole yet but you should focus on that in my opinion.
Nadie puede ser feliz
Echoing the comments on trying therapy, a nutritionist and/or a weight coach. Doing a weight loss transformation and keeping it off is very hard to do alone. I say this after losing over 100lbs in a previous life.
Skip breakfast, heavy lunch with dessert, then soup for dinner. Do this for six months. You're welcome.
>my blood work is starting to approach the higher ends of what is considered ok.

Your blood work is showing you are healthy. It doesn't sound like there's any need to change your diet.

I just want to second this - Ranges in your blood work are not hard limits on the acceptable range. They are the normal ranges. If you fall anywhere in them, high or low, you are fine. If you fall a bit outside the range you are probably still fine. Doctors get concerned when you are multiples of the ranges. So the higher end of normal is just... normal.
Ranges have been going up because the population is getting unhealthy, and they're based on population distributions, if you go by ranges that were what the populace was in the 40s or 50s, %90 of the population is not in a good state and is metabolically unhealthy.

It's the modern day smoking, just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's good.

> I've tried fasting and I was able to do 18h fasts daily with no problem and even go over a week without eating, just on water and herbal tea. But that completely messed up my habits, metabolism and relationship with food, and I'm now struggling to follow a schedule and any kind of diet.

This is called restricting, and it's classic eating disorder behavior.

> I'd love to know if anyone has been able to completely replace food with protein powders and vitamins, hospital liquid diet, or any other alternative. The idea here is to abstain from food for a full year and then restart eating normally with a light balanced diet with a nutritionist's help.

This is incredibly dangerous. Don't do this.

Get a nutritionist, and seek professional help to recover from your food addiction/eating disorder. Most importantly, do what they say.

The internet is rife with people who have active eating disorders and will make yours worse in an effort to justify their own unhealthy behavior. It's almost never a good idea to take the internet's advice on psychiatric matters, but in this area it is especially dangerous.

Get off the internet and get professional help.

> This is called restricting, and it's classic eating disorder behavior.

Most people would recognize this as intermittent fasting by itself, but with the rest of it this sounds problematic. I’m not sure you can just replace one addiction with another without looking to the root of the issue.

OP is right. A recent trend in the last 2 decades is people obsessing about nutritious and healthy food (See - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/what-is... ). (Probably because of the fear-mongering type marketing by the "health food" industry) Note: I don't claim you have Orthorexia and just mentioned it as an example to point out how something we consider as a good habit (being mindful of what we eat) can also become unhealthy and stressful for us when we do it in excess. ("Everything in moderation, including moderation" is a good principle to keep in mind).
Sounds like you're really working hard, and digging deep.

It also sounds like you might be experiencing addiction replacement/displacement, when you "overcome" one thing and shift the focus on to something new [2]. People can go through the whole gamut - alcohol, drugs, gambling, pornography, and still end up in something more socially "acceptable" like shopping or phone overuse. Even the act of "overcoming" can itself be an obsessive (control desire) act.

I'll second the comments saying maybe talk to a therapist [2]

What you're looking for is a "hole" (feels like an inadequacy or deprivation threat). When you hit it and deal with it, the other stuff will fall into line. Good luck.

[1] https://www.addictioncenter.com/community/addiction-replacem...

[2] Don't get addicted to therapy :)

> Don't get addicted to therapy

For example, don't use amphetamines xD

Speaking from my own addictions: there has always been some underlying cause. With enough motivation, I was able to break free just like you did from smoking,etc... but working to resolve the addiction without resolving the root cause and any current environmental conditions to which you are responding to by eating will never work. I am in the same boat as you, what I have found out is, finding the problem is only the first step, there are many steps before actually solving it.
Those things are fun, I did a lot of abstinence experiments myself when I was young. I learned that I don't want any constraints for food ever.

Eating only powdered protein low quality and fake stuff will mess you up and your kidneys. So I once choose coma patient food. It comes in many varieties for all ages and is cheap in bulk. It is complete, tastes medium awful and you only feel horrible for the first few days. Then just drained, zombified and mildly happy until you can't take this stuff anymore. High fibre content is important.

Did you actual address your addictions or did you just fill that hole with something new and so moderation became easy? I would suggest stop focusing on the symptoms and focus on the underlying problem that is driving your addictions, whether that is unhappiness or persistent habit triggers or whatever it might be. If you "quit food" will you just be writing this same post next year but with a new addiction?

More concretely:

- Identify why you need an "escape valve". Understand that having an escape valve that dominates your life negatively is the problem, not the shape that valve takes

- Identify the triggers that push you to the escape valve. Both the long-term triggers (for example, it could be being stressed or unhappy) and the immediate habit triggers (for example, it could be seeing paraphernalia or being extremely hungry). Try to reduce the long-term triggers. Try to develop new habits around the immediate triggers (trigger still exists, but habit response is something you want to do). Being aware of your habit loop is IMO important for improving how you react to triggers (therapy can be really helpful here)

I excersize a LOT.

I admitted defeat. I love food.

But then I quit all of the shitty stuff, no more sweet stuff, no more sodas, no more potato chips.

Weight went down, but I stagnated again. Then I started again with High Intensity training - and that's it, food still goes in, food gets burned down.

Never felt better.

Generally you can't white-knuckle your way out of obsession disorders. A common strategy for overcoming obsession disorders is to reduce the power they have by not giving into them, by acknowledging them honestly and observing them with curiosity but not engaging. If you drastically rework your eating habits to indulge your obsession, that can give it much more power and make things much worse.

So the "simple" solution is to just eat normally and try not to worry about it. Unfortunately that can be much, much harder said than done. In your case it seems like you are already in crisis, having already done a week-long water and tea fast and now actively considering a year-long liquid and vitamin diet. These are huge red flags. They may seem reasonable to you in your current mental state but they are major warning signs.

I strongly encourage you to seek professional mental help as soon as you can. I discourage you from trying to be your own therapist, unfortunately that can turn into an obsession on its own.

Disregard all comments here that focus on food instead of mental health.

I'm very sorry you are struggling. Good luck.

You need to develop a healthy relationship with food and change “what” you eat. You can’t just quit food or you’ll feel miserable and eventually go back to old habits. Not to mention it being incredibly unhealthy.

I would really recommend watching this podcast episode: https://youtu.be/C-H4KwoKaOc

It goes into the science of different macronutrients and how they effect your body.

A quick tldw: Eat lots more of protein and fiber, they will make you feel full and we don’t get enough of it unlike sugar/carbs that are everywhere in modern diets.

Disclaimer: I'm not a dietitian, although I do have a B.S. in Nutritional Science with a didactic focus.

What you are describing has all the hallmarks of a psychological condition (eating disorder) and not a physical condition (poor diet).

You should not attempt to treat this yourself, and you should especially not attempt to treat it by changing your eating habits. Changing you eating habits will not treat a psychological disorder. Eat a healthy balanced diet, and seek medical care if you are having trouble with that.

Otherwise it's like trying to fix a flat tire by changing your oil.