Thelema is not some cute LARP for edgelords. NASA is writing Parsons out of their history because someone who adhered to a credo of "do what thou wilt" is embarrassing to have as a foundational figure in the organization.
How is it worse than a cult that employs terrorist attacks to enforce its views on infidels, like with abortion clinic bombings by Catholic extremists?
The Catholics in your example think they're doing the right thing, the Thelemites know that they're doing the WRONG thing on purpose for any given occult operation. I am more knowledgeable on OTO, but Thelema falls into an area of clandestine Masonry in which all non-initiates are regarded as sub-human animals. The entire function of Crowley's work is to set changes into motion to create an theocratic occult elite totalitarian state, the "Age of Horus." The primary acts to bring about material change from mental will (aka magick) are all SEXUAL, the eucharist for the assemblies is derived of semen, menstrual blood, and fecal matter baked into wafers. It's hard to put metaphysical ideas into elevator pitch style explanation, but I assure you, those who work Crowley's programs are intentionally and knowingly doing awful things for selfish means in horrible ways that no sane person could dream of. Let's put it another way, if you knew Jimmy Saville, Jimmy Page, and various Danish nobility (see: Dutrox incident) had a secret society to commit sexual crimes in a ritualized fashion to bring about metaphysical changes, would that resemble anything you could remotely called "good"?
And in your opinion this petty bullshit is somehow worse than organized child abuse, discrimination and dehumanization of minorities and woman and straight out terrorism associated with a certain universally tolerated, and often widely privileged, church?
Organized child abuse, racism, and misogyny are certainly Crowley's bread and butter as well, and I can only assume you skipped over or aren't aware of the Dutroux affair mentioned by the parent, which I'm assuming you would not dismiss as "petty," and goes far beyond any of the worst allegations I've heard leveled at the Catholic clergy.
The simple and obvious conclusion here is that child abuse and malicious predatory behavior is bad whether it's coming from Crowleyites & Satanists or from the Catholic Church. Who knows, perhaps a not insignificant number of the latter are even inspired by and in league with the former.
I've been well acquainted with a couple of very serious Thelema adherents for most of my life, and they make it clear in no uncertain terms that as a group they will happily murder and hide the death of anyone who would abuse a child. People who harm the innocent are viewed as the ultimate evil.
Not sure what experience you have with Crowley's followers but it sounds more like the things that Christians say about them than what they're actually about.
Extremely funny to see this kind of post in the same thread where people are painting the entirety of the Catholic Church with the same brush as pedophile enablers at the Vatican.
one of the more disturbing things about the last 5-10 years is the apparent normalisation of the sinister occult.
Black magic is not a game and is not all fake.
The goal of genuine practitioners is no less than a violent installation of a new world order at first by covert and subtle means, later by increasingly overt subversion.
At this point our goose is cooked. The pot is boiling and the frog is dead. All that is left is the Apocalypse, or unmasking.
"Satanic Panic" has been a classic deflection mechanism ever since Michael Aquino helped jump start it by going on Oprah's show in the 80s dressed like a goofy vampire. Just a classic fallacy of composition, where if any concerns over Satanism were proven to be overwrought or misplaced, well, they all must be.
Whether black magic actually works or not, there is overwhelming evidence that many elites believe it does and act accordingly.
I'll refrain from detailing the thread too much by delving into the compromised nature of Wikipedia, which, for example, deleted its article on Aquino and redirected it to "Temple of Set."
Thing is, all those "concerns" proved to be bullshit, created by a certain church to cover its own crimes, such as rampant pedophilia and promotion of numerous social pathologies. Remember when Vatican granted diplomatic immunity to a pedophile to protect him from law enforcement? That's the people who invented the satanic panic.
One of the children Michael Aquino abused called him out to her parents when she spotted him at a random place in San Francisco, and provided a description of the interior of his house which matched what police found when they went to investigate. Many of the children at the Presidio daycare had physical evidence of abuse, including venereal disease.
It's a single case, compared to hundreds of thousands victims of Catholic Church. It's also a single case, as opposed to an organised operation throughout the entire Church hierarchy, all the way to the very top at the Vatican.
There's also ample historical evidence that even more people are willing to believe the most ludicrous things said about other people without any proof whatsoever, so long as Satanism/demonology and/or sex are sprinkled into the tale.
"Satanic panic" wasn't a "deflection mechanism". It's the reality that the vast majority of the things people were worrying about existed only in their heads. Dark, demonic forces have better things to do with their time than hang out in your toaster or mess about with angsty pimple-faced teens when there's desperate college graduates with a lifetime of student loan debt and "promising futures" practically falling from the sky. Most satanists (just like most non-satanists) have never even played D&D.
Erm. Look, I can't say a lot to correct you on this for [reasons] but, believe me, these organisations are nothing like as Early Norwegian Black Metal as you're making them out to be. Esoteric Masonry is often mind numbingly boring, and I don't think any of those groups have held significant power since before WW2. Possibly since the Victorian era. And making the link to Dutroux is bullshit.
You want to see large scale occult conspiracy, I suggest looking at the Catholic Church. The various occult orders, with the possible exception of scientology, are largely Lodge 49. Once in a while something goes more "organised crime network with occult overtones" - one or two of those in the news right now - but believe me nothing paramasonic has ever taken on that character that I am aware of.
Come on, I can't honestly believe you are making this argument in good faith. This is coming from a perspective of religious bigotry. Most thelemites that I know do believe that they are doing the right thing. The "sexual" idea in this case is an analogy to the enlightenment concept of the "unification of opposites". The temple furniture in the OTO's Gnostic Mass is set up to resemble the Tree of Life. The Unification during the ritual occurs to represent unification above the abyss if looking at the temple furniture and ritual in earnest. There's nothing wrong with this concept - similar ones are present in other (popular) religions.
These people aren't doing anything awful. They're just choosing to go about enlightenment using a different or alternative path ("All Roads Lead to Rome"). A lot of the OTO is just nerdy types of IT people. They're your coworkers in the office.
Finally, what you said about "subhuman animals" is just a complete fabrication. I'm not even sure where you got that from. It's not in any of the literature.
You've been reading too many pearl-clutching articles. There's quite a bit that Crowley wrote that was clearly just to separate people who would believe whatever they were told or read from critical thinkers who could be expected to handle some light decision-making. It's also clear he really enjoyed the sensationalism of it, so from his standpoint writing something that contained a paragraph you weren't meant to believe and then five paragraphs explaining how much of an idiot you'd have to be to believe it just to watch the dullards run in circles was a jolly afternoon's work.
How is that representative of Catholics? There are 1.34 billion Catholics in the world. There were a total of 7 abortion clinic murders between 1977-2015 [1].
"42 bombings, and 186 arsons targeted at abortion clinics and providers across the United States" alone. This is nothing compared to literally millions of people (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/) suffering because of just one of Catholic perversions the Church maintains - and aggressively promotes - to this day.
No, not at all! It would be a far better world if NASA (not to mention any number of other institutions) had to be more forthright and contrite about its baleful roots.
I was only half joking: the culture of some of the southern states condones many things that don’t have place in civilized world. And back then it was way, way worse.
There is no reason any culture can justify sexy anything with a _child_. Find me one example of where "the culture someone comes from" has a woman rolling like that with a boy who may not have even started puberty.
8,000 years ago, maybe that was kind normie for reasons other than shitty old men (lifespan, w/e), but that doesn't hold any water today.
I'm not saying any of this is equal, but there's no way I roll up into Tehran eating pork rinds and doing cosplay of the Prophet either.
It’s not black and white; this was 80 years ago, and a 17 year old. Now, that is definitely stat rape. Then, it was the norm. You’re certainly right that holds no water today, but it’s not today.
Right. It was all OK back then (it really wasn't), so we should just shrug it off. I mean, Von Braun was only a Nazi because he wanted to play with rockets.
We need to take all this into account.
I in no way, wish to ever deny someone's scientific contributions. We can't deny the genius of MJ and Bowie, but we sure as hell can incorporate the whole person into their legacy while we're singing along.
I wouldn’t say “it was okay back then”; 17 year olds today vs then is something that is night and day.
Also The way I see it, differentiate a persons personal life from whatever contributions they have from their professional life. A good example is Michael Jackson. You can love his music and hate him as a person. So it’s more split the legacy.
This also being said, I’d erase every pedo from the face of the earth given the chance.
AFAIK there is no indication that Michael Jackson ever did anything inappropriate towards the children he welcomed to his estate. He even won in court.
And TBH I detest that you're sort of comparing Jackson to these Crowleyites.
Don't engage in outrage inflation. The original point was about a 17-year old, and if you've got to condemn that from 80 years ago, you have to condemn pretty much everyone who lived during the middle ages because by that age most couples were already working on their second child.
This isn't a very good point. Firstly, the sister was 17, so the classification as statutory rape is quite arbitrary and specific to California. Secondly, this is the same woman who went on to rob Parsons of his life savings together with Hubbard (head of Scientology) and also founded Dianetics (the precursor to Scientology), again together with Hubbard.
I could understand putting them all in the same rotten basket, as presumably all actors here were morally bankrupt, but making it seem like Parsons wronged Sara Northrup Hollister makes absolutely no sense.
See Wikipedia for more, e.g [1]. As another commenter put it, "the whole situation was cult fuckery".
The 'JP' in JPL? (One wonders.) Another member of the Caltech 'suicide squad', Frank Malina [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Malina], was another of the Aerojet founders scrutinized for politics by the FBI. He decided to quit because of the weapons aspects and moved to France to join UNESCO. There he became a 'fugitive' in 1952. Unlike Parsons, though, he made it into the 'International Space Hall of Fame' in Alamagordo.
46 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 103 ms ] threadThe simple and obvious conclusion here is that child abuse and malicious predatory behavior is bad whether it's coming from Crowleyites & Satanists or from the Catholic Church. Who knows, perhaps a not insignificant number of the latter are even inspired by and in league with the former.
Not sure what experience you have with Crowley's followers but it sounds more like the things that Christians say about them than what they're actually about.
Black magic is not a game and is not all fake.
The goal of genuine practitioners is no less than a violent installation of a new world order at first by covert and subtle means, later by increasingly overt subversion.
At this point our goose is cooked. The pot is boiling and the frog is dead. All that is left is the Apocalypse, or unmasking.
I would have thought HN was above lurid, unsubstantiated satanic panic tales.
edit after reading the replies:
orange site is the worst subreddit.
Whether black magic actually works or not, there is overwhelming evidence that many elites believe it does and act accordingly.
I'll refrain from detailing the thread too much by delving into the compromised nature of Wikipedia, which, for example, deleted its article on Aquino and redirected it to "Temple of Set."
"Satanic panic" wasn't a "deflection mechanism". It's the reality that the vast majority of the things people were worrying about existed only in their heads. Dark, demonic forces have better things to do with their time than hang out in your toaster or mess about with angsty pimple-faced teens when there's desperate college graduates with a lifetime of student loan debt and "promising futures" practically falling from the sky. Most satanists (just like most non-satanists) have never even played D&D.
You want to see large scale occult conspiracy, I suggest looking at the Catholic Church. The various occult orders, with the possible exception of scientology, are largely Lodge 49. Once in a while something goes more "organised crime network with occult overtones" - one or two of those in the news right now - but believe me nothing paramasonic has ever taken on that character that I am aware of.
These people aren't doing anything awful. They're just choosing to go about enlightenment using a different or alternative path ("All Roads Lead to Rome"). A lot of the OTO is just nerdy types of IT people. They're your coworkers in the office.
Finally, what you said about "subhuman animals" is just a complete fabrication. I'm not even sure where you got that from. It's not in any of the literature.
[1] https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack...
There is no reason any culture can justify sexy anything with a _child_. Find me one example of where "the culture someone comes from" has a woman rolling like that with a boy who may not have even started puberty.
8,000 years ago, maybe that was kind normie for reasons other than shitty old men (lifespan, w/e), but that doesn't hold any water today.
I'm not saying any of this is equal, but there's no way I roll up into Tehran eating pork rinds and doing cosplay of the Prophet either.
This BS argument needs to be deaded.
We need to take all this into account.
I in no way, wish to ever deny someone's scientific contributions. We can't deny the genius of MJ and Bowie, but we sure as hell can incorporate the whole person into their legacy while we're singing along.
Also The way I see it, differentiate a persons personal life from whatever contributions they have from their professional life. A good example is Michael Jackson. You can love his music and hate him as a person. So it’s more split the legacy.
This also being said, I’d erase every pedo from the face of the earth given the chance.
And TBH I detest that you're sort of comparing Jackson to these Crowleyites.
I could understand putting them all in the same rotten basket, as presumably all actors here were morally bankrupt, but making it seem like Parsons wronged Sara Northrup Hollister makes absolutely no sense.
See Wikipedia for more, e.g [1]. As another commenter put it, "the whole situation was cult fuckery".
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Parsons_(rocket_engineer)