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Questions on Delusional Thinking

1 points by Layke1123 ↗ HN
If I claim I can shoot fire balls out of my hand, most people would say impossible.

If I claim a person in the past could shoot fire balls out of their hand, most people would say impossible.

If I claim I can walk on water, most people would say impossible.

If I claim a person was able to water on water a long time ago, suddenly I can be taken seriously.

Why do so many people not see the logical inconsistency here? Why do people not see that believing certain religious thoughts are a delusion?

27 comments

[ 329 ms ] story [ 1776 ms ] thread
WalterGR
Faith is belief in the absence of fact. Religion requires faith.

That's all there is to it.

Layke1123
Isn't it delusional thinking if you ignore facts about reality?
WalterGR
If you want. It's up to you.

You could also think that by definition, some parts of religion are impossible to prove / disprove, and different strokes for different folks, and then go have some tea. :)

What's your sample size for believing that people can't shoot fireballs out of their hands or walk on water?

(Where I’m going with that question is: “Well your sample size isn’t large enough.” See? There’s no way to argue against faith.)

Layke1123
I can't believe in 2022, on a website dedicated to tech and other interesting things, I'm having a conversation with some one ardently defending whether humans can shoot fireballs out of their hands and walk on water or not.
AnimalMuppet
Arguing by the year is a fallacy. It's a logic smell.

("I can't believe that in 2022, people still argue that way." See how that doesn't actually say anything that anyone ought to take seriously? It just uses the assumption of rightness to pressure anyone who disagrees.)

[dead] Layke1123
AnimalMuppet
Did I say that? Why, no, I did not. You're putting words in my mouth, which you do not have the right to do. You're generating a... not even a strawman[1], just a blatantly made-up position that you're assigning to me. And then you're not even disproving that made-up position, you're just mocking it. That's really shoddy argumentation.

My claim is that "argument by year" may be a cute rhetorical flourish, but it's completely worthless as an actual argument. You used it, and I'm calling you on it. If you want to argue against peoples' irrational beliefs, find a better way to do it.

[1] A strawman is a weak version of an opponent's position, not a completely unrelated position.

Layke1123
OK, then answer the simple question AnimalMuppet. Do you believe wizards can shoot fireballs out of their hands or not?

If you are up for a more serious question, how about, do you believe humans can walk on water or not?

AnimalMuppet
My point was not that your position was wrong. My point was that your way of arguing for your position was wrong.

You repeatedly seem to be trying to dodge, deflect, ignore, or misrepresent that. It's getting annoying.

[dead] Layke1123
AnimalMuppet
Look, you made the original post. That "pidgeon" that you're mad at? You're not replying to them.

But even if you were... you reply to one person, but more than one person reads your reply. If you match the stupidity of the person you reply to, then everyone else who reads it concludes that you're just as stupid, and that your position is just as badly-supported. So that approach is pretty counterproductive.

Layke1123
I made the original pigeon post? Did you read the part asking me for sample size on wizards?

How about you tell all here what is a reasonable sample size for being able to rule out wizards? How many people have you seen shooting fireballs out of their hands?

AnimalMuppet
You made the original "Questions on Delusional Thinking" post, which was something of a rant. That wasn't in reply to anyone - it was the original post.

You're obviously mad at someone, and it sounds like it's someone religious, who believes in miracles. But you didn't reply to them. Instead, you came here to rant at us.

I'll give you the last word, because I have no interest in going further with this conversation.

Layke1123
What is wrong with my question on delusional thinking? Is it not an active area of discussion among psychologists? Is it not important to understand what delusional thoughts are versus rational thoughts?
dang
It is totally not ok to do this sort of flamewar on HN and we've had to ask you repeatedly not to. This is just a sample:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29655736 (Dec 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29547334 (Dec 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27477147 (June 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22272727 (Feb 2020)

(Note that last one: "Please don't do tit-for-tat flamewars on HN. It's off topic, nasty, and tedious.")

Would you please stop getting involved in flamewars on HN? I don't want to ban you but you keep doing it.

WalterGR
> I'm having a conversation with some one ardently defending whether humans can shoot fireballs out of their hands and walk on water or not.

You aren't.

You're having a conversation with someone trying to describe how other people look at the topic. (That's why, for example, I put quotes around “Well your sample size isn’t large enough.”) But since you're not interested in that, I'll stop.

Layke1123
I understand very well how other people look at it. They ignore logic when it is convenient. They say, "Yeah, look at those flat earthers, bunch of silly idiots", then turn around and swear they hear god speak to them at the same time. It's delusional.
inphovore
You deceive yourself every day.

You and your “facts” cannot actually account for that which you lack empirical validation.

That you’re certain all circumstance are as you conjecture them to be is an irony of your position.

Is that the only part of the story that disturbs you? If this one part was stretched (easiest way to early assimilation is fake news) what of all the rest of human account?

Resist your false certainty. Take the account of ledgend, history, third hand account, etc on their own terms.

You don’t really solve anything with your nihilistic incredulity. You’re not even on to something as far as ironies are concerned.

Layke1123
Have you ever played the game of telephone? Is it not more likely people lied and repeated lies that got so completely changed from reality than to believe some person actually flew to space on a winged donkey?
inphovore
Well, the Hindu speak of things similar to winged donkeys, and of Hanuman’s army building the adam bridge.

And there is an Adam bridge. If a hundred thousand talking monkeys and a ragtag band of humans didn’t build that land bridge between India and Sri Lanka 10,000 years ago, then who did smart guy?

Layke1123
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not lol.

So many cultures speak of ghosts as well. Doesn't mean they existed. I mean, if they did, I'll be sure to bring that up in court next time I need to blame something breaking on them.

As for the Adam Bridge, geological processes are amazing, are they not?

dang
We don't want religious flamewar here, so please don't post religious flamebait to HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Layke1123
It wasn't about religion, it was about delusional thinking.
dang
If you keep posting like this, we will have to ban you again. This is not what HN is for.
Layke1123
Artificially downvote me all you want. All you are doing is proving how Hacker News is a highly curated and biased website towards a particular viewpoint.