Tell HN: I used the same computer since 2007 (with minor upgrades)

407 points by andrecarini ↗ HN
With all the news about the Apple M2 and the people excited to sunset their couple years old computers, I feel compelled to share my reality (and that of many others outside the HN bubble).

I'm a 27 years old software developer from Brazil. The computer in question was assembled in 2007 from parts that were mostly bought abroad (and then gifted to me) by a wealthier relative that was visiting. That's a key point: the currency exchange rates and the import taxes make electronics out of reach for the common folks.

That was an AMD2+ motherboard, 4GB of DDR2, a 5400 RPM rust spinner, and a Phenom X4 coupled with an ATI 4870.

Although the household was never in a dire situation financially, I had always been taught by example to fix things and keep using them for as long as possible. Even back in elementary school times I would troubleshoot computer issues myself and brush off dust from the components.

Yes, there have been hardware failures since 2007: two HDDs died (about 6 years lifespan for each), the 4870 died (but I extended its life for one more year with the bake-it-in-the-oven trick), one DIMM failure, a PSU blowout and a CPU cooler bracket mechanical failure.

All replacements that had to be purchased would cost me a significant amount of money. HDDs and PSUs were not that expensive, but GPUs were out of reach. When that DIMM died in 2018, I purchased an used and dusty DDR2 replacement kit off AliExpress.

After the pandemic hit and I got my first proper (remote) job in 2020, I splurged and replaced some components: a hand-me-down GPU from a wealthier friend (I had been using the onboard graphics since the 4870 died), an AMD3 motherboard, a Phenom II X4 and some DDR3, all used and from AliExpress.

The monitor, a 22" TFT panel from Samsung, is still kicking since 2007 with a couple of dead pixels. Same goes for the mouse, manufactured by an unknown Chinese brand, and a membrane keyboard that I completely disassembled and scrubbed clean under a running faucet.

Even with my career finally taking off (I'm due to complete undergraduate Computer Science this year) I don't see myself doing major upgrades/purchases any soon.

When was the last time you gave something extra life instead of throwing it away?

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Clothing most recently, I took about 5 articles of outdoor wear in for repair through a 3rd party and Patagonias service (Patagonia expensive, but I'd have had to pay almost $1000 to replace what they've fixed for me for free over the years)

Tech-wise, my "home server" is a business dell whatever bought second hand, main personal computer came from a startup liquidation, the computer that replaced went to a relative, and I've been able to re-home several routers/modems I saved from other folks apartment cleanouts (though the ones I have left are bumping against isp and speed limitations unfortunately).

I'm also looking forward to buying out my work MacBook for cheap when I get to 3 years, since it's rather beefy.

Also a swe, but in the US

A lot of my 20 years old clothes are in better shape than newish clothes after 10 washes. The build quality is incomparable.

Only industrial clothing seems to be made to last nowadays.

> When was the last time you gave something extra life instead of throwing it away?

I appreciate your story and wish more people would take it to heart. I almost always just resurrect hand-me-downs from family and friends (I know enough people with more money than sense so it's pretty easy for me to pull off).

Cool story, but this is going to be the main tool for your craft. You should buy a modern set as soon as you can afford it. You've earned it :)
Using an external ssd drive to my 2011 imac would have kept me on it forever if Apple didn’t end long term support for it. I had to buy an m1 mac mini early this year.
The recent Raspberry Pi models (4/400) have the potential to really expand computing globally. They're the first ones that have enough CPU power and RAM to do virtually everything you'd ever want to do with a desktop computer, with the exception of playing the latest games (and perhaps ML? I don't know much about it), but they cost $45 and run from a USB power supply.

It's amazing how much you can do with them.

>with the exception of … perhaps ML? I don't know much about it. It's amazing how much you can do with them.

Indeed. Cloud VMs can fill in the needs unmet by the Pi—the amateur ML hacker generally only needs high performance computing resources infrequently enough that renting them on-demand from cloud providers is an extremely economical solution.

It's out of stock everywhere.
That would be the "potential" part, but I don't think the supply chain problems are limited to the Raspberry Pi.

(Also, it's often in stock, check https://rpilocator.com )

The only fly in the ointment is the lack of SATA or NVMe on the base model. I think there are riser boards out there for that, but it's all very boutique.
While it's true that SATA or NVMe would be ideal, I just recently started booting a Pi 4 straight from a Samsung T7 SSD and it's night and day compared to the SD card even over just USB. I'm sure we'll get to better interfaces one day, but so far I'm very happy regardless.
The USB 2.0 controller seems to be relatively inefficient on the pi 4, or at least the driver is. An RTLSDR dongle uses almost 50% CPU just shovelling samples when it should only use less than 1%.
I wonder how well PXE boot + NFS shares would fare in comparison? Hasn't a lot of the USB stack been pushed into user space in more recent operating systems?
Well, the Ethernet interface is PCI-E, so there's a good chance it would be efficient.

One thing to keep in mind is that USB 3.0 is a completely different independent controller from 2.0. So, just because USB 2.0 sucks doesn't necessarily mean 3.0 does.

It's just unfortunate because you would expect 2.0 to be well optimized by now. I assume the kernel driver must be using the CPU to shovel data from the USB 2.0 controller rather than DMA.

I would have kept the same hardware forever too, but for some reason my tools seem to take more and more resources every year.

Silly example is gmail, which loaded in 1s on my 2011 MacBook Pro when new, if it load it again today (I just tried) it takes 35 seconds before I can click anything.

Another might be everyone’s favourite software to hate on: Teams.

On my 2011 MacBook Pro: fans squealing, UI of the OS becomes unresponsive, beachballs. But chat/video software of the era was not so heavy.

What annoys me is that this machine is supposedly faster than yours, (i7, 8GB, SATA SSD) but the capability of the machine has been whittled away over time.

Did the Alpine mail reader stop working with Gmail? I switched to self hosting after Google kicked me out of my account with a broken password reset so I haven't had to switch to a different mail reader.
Gmail supports IMAP (and even POP), so you can use just about any e-mail client with it:

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7126229?hl=en

I believe Gmail requires (or soon will require) authenticating with OAuth2 in order to use IMAP and SMTP. Thunderbird supports it, but I'm not sure about other email clients.
My first iPad, I believe it was the third generation: I would have never used it if it were as slow as it has become today. It also lost some synchronization options, though I don’t recall what it was.

That being said: I kept my 2013 MacBook Pro retina until a few months ago, one year after a battery replacement which ended up breaking other parts and becoming to expensive to fix. Otherwise it ran perfectly fine and the high quality screen was almost on par to current screens.

I’m still using my 2013 MPro Retina as a nice backup computer (when I need to do MacOS things), I refuse to sell it. It had the last good keyboard before the butterfly came along.
> It had the last good keyboard before the butterfly came along.

Wasn't the last of those the 2015 Macbook Pro?

It indeed was the 2015 model. I have an early 2015 MBP sitting in my desk as I’m typing this which I use primarily as a slack machine and it still has the old good keyboard.
Oh my bad then! Still. The retina screen and it still being supported natively is just chefs kiss.
I have the second gen iPad (iPad 2 3G) and I still use it for reading books and comics. The battery is still reasonable for the little usage it sees.

Unfortunately, upgrading to iOS9 makes it utterly unusable so I have it still running iOS8. The only issue is Apple doesn’t let you download older versions of apps unless you’d bought them way back.

I really wish Apple let alternate firmwares on these devices, I would love to run KOReader on my iPad over Linux.

My same iPad was real slow until one day I did a system reset on it and it was good as new. It progressively has slowed down slowly since then, but I haven't installed the same amount of apps on it. It makes a big difference, maybe try it.
I know this isn't your main point, but for GMail there's always "Basic HTML view": https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/1pq68r75kzvdr/?v%3Dlui
The fact is the normal view used to be very fast even on the hardware of the era. Nowadays normal view has the same functionalities but is much slower even on modern hardware.
My gmail was great on my commodity 2010 Windows laptop until a couple of months ago, and then it suddenly fell off a cliff. I've tried everything I can think of, but I think Google just messed something up and made it at least an order of magnitude slower quite recently.
I used basic view for a while, and didn't miss any of the advanced features. What made me stop was the fact it inserts newlines into messages to keep lines below 70 characters. (I guess this is in line with the RFC, but my recipients didn't like it.)
To be pedantic, the correct URL is technically https://mail.google.com/mail/h/, which then expands in practice to https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/ and then gets the jumble of characters near the end added on which appears to be an everything-compliant cache-busting mechanism. When typing the URL manually the "/" after the "h" is required; "mail.google.com/mail/h" will not work.
They're doing their best to kill it. Last time I checked, they stopped honoring the setting that used to allow you to permanently switch views. Now they always use the default slow view unless you use a specific URL.
In my experience, that's the only sane way to use it even on modern hardware.
yah this is it; software doesn't stand still unless you use old applications. I've read about folks keeping old systems around to use their old licensed software or some other application they know the ins-and-outs of and can get stuff done on it without having to break their mental model of the application behavior each upgrade with all the UI scramble and revamping. I'm starting to get a dose of that myself with some applications I keep running.
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Rather than keeping old systems around (though we do that too, still having 486 systems running), we keep diskless version of old OS versions around, complete with installed applications (IDEs, compilers etc). Anything from WinXP to Win10 works fine over iSCSI (presumably 11 does too), DOS using etherboot and MSNET, and diskless linux has never been a challenge.
>Gmail

I feel the early-00s PC I had at the time gmail came out would explode and kill everyone in the room with shrapnel if I tried opening gmail with it now, while remarkably, the 2005 (?) version had all the features I ever cared about

That seems strange. I run multiple older computers, Core 2 Duo CPUS, 4GB RAM, cheapest possible SSD. They load gmail fine in about 5-7 seconds. And I have 67,000+ unread messages and multiple gmail addons installed too. 35 Seconds before you can click on anything seems crazy.
I also find it strange - my Core 2 Duo[1] has 2GB RAM and spinning rust HDD (no SSD) and gmail loads in about 10s.

[1] I'm still using this laptop productively throughout our regular brownouts. It takes a bit of time to boot, but from login window to a completed WindowMaker startup (with a few xterms on startup + wicd app) it takes about a second.

> Silly example is gmail, which loaded in 1s on my 2011 MacBook Pro when new, if it load it again today (I just tried) it takes 35 seconds before I can click anything.

Gmail currently does easily over 50 HTTP requests when loading, and browsers limit the number of connections:

https://docs.pushtechnology.com/cloud/latest/manual/html/des...

The net effect is that you wait at least 8x (but probably much more) your ping to the server for the page to load.

It's sort of a plague in enterprise web apps and stems from the fact that nowadays you have small teams working on independent modules, which do their own requests. Banking apps are the worst offender here.

Also some people are simply unaware of/ignore the issue. The other day I inspected an e-store my friend paid decent money to set up and the first thing that I noticed was that it was firing 200+ requests, because the devs neither bundled nor minified their code.

I thought this was because it was still in development - nope - another store by the same company had the same issues, causing the site to load 12s+ on a good connection, and 30s+ on a 4G simulator.

FYI, I am running Arch on a Macbook Air 2011 and it handles Teams OK ;-)
This. People seem to think their hardware somehow slows down, when in reality their shitty OS just got more bloatet.
Find that hard to believe too.

My laptop since 2017 has been a Dell Precision 5510, (Xeon 1505v6, 32G) running Arch and honestly it's not smooth in the slightest.

Granted, last time I used Teams was 2 years ago, maybe it improved a lot, but the UI lags so hard that it almost bugs out, along with pegging and entire CPU core, sometimes when the program has been on a call but is no longer... Teams should be sitting idle.

While teams is super inefficient, 10 years ago no one was casually streaming 4k with a webcam feed in a remote team session with 2-10 people.
> no one was casually streaming 4k with a webcam feed

aren't most webcams on laptops firmly in the 720p-1080p territory? I know most people receive 480p streams.

I'll grant you that 10 way calls were much less common then, but even now Teams only shows 4(?) of them depending on UI layout.

720p as webcam is very new.

My teams shows up to 8 I think.

This is going to sound like fanboy talk. But both Mac and Windows tend to feel slower and slower over time, each upgrade somehow pushing your 'old hardware' to new limits.

On Linux it's often the opposite and a new update may even makes your old machine faster than it ever was.

gmail just loaded in 1-2s for me.
About 2s here as well.
About your MacBook fans squealing: I had the same problem with my 2012 MacBook Pro. It turned out that the grilles through which the fans blow out the hot air were completely clogged up with dust and the Macbook would overheat.

I cleaned both and now the fans rarely spin up to full speed, because the hot air can actually leave the case again.

See this guide (the guide does not show cleaning the grille, but that is the important part).

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+clean+your+MacBooks+fan+...

I still use my 2011 macbook air, not as a main driver but still quite a bit. I had to put linux using xfce on it for it to actually work in a non painful way, MacOS not being able to update properly was part of it, I did find a way to force the updates since I thought I may use it for iphone dev and still use xcode on it, but it wasn't viable. It's mostly used for web surfing via firefox, and if I run something like gnome or cinnamon it struggles quite a lot more than xfce.
I'm the third owner of my bike, it was a high end road bike in the mid 80s and has been used quite heavily since then by all three owners. The wear parts have of course been replaced in some cases many times, but most of the other non-drive components are original. It was converted to a fixed gear in the late 90s which saved a lot of rim wear, but I just recently had to finally replace the rims. I reused the front hub though, it's probably been rebuilt a dozen times by now.

I don't really track miles so it's hard to estimate but I'm on my sixth set of tires with it and I know the previous owner did at least as much.

That feels old!

I still have my core2duo system, since approximately 2008 - it still runs great and works perfectly. I am mainly running Linux on it as a "build" server for a project.

I also have a J1900 for the past 10 years or so, running a couple VMs on it - not too performant to run major stuff, but works great. I've used this system as my main machine until 2020 (early covid) and upgraded to something way stronger.

Personally most of my computers are Ivy Bridge (3rd gen Intel). I do not use anything past that, I do not see any improvements in technology that make it worth upgrading, and there are many annoyances to the new stuff, I don't like USB-C at all. I can still run DOS and Windows XP on a 3rd gen Intel.

I prefer using old 5:4 1280x1024 monitors. I can't stand 16:9 or 16:10. I use three monitors with integrated graphics on an Optiplex. I do not like LED monitors, I prefer CCFL.

My keyboards are PS/2.

The point is all my computer equipment is dirt cheap, and I actually prefer it to the new stuff.

The ATI 4870 is actually kind of a nice GPU.

I have no interest in the M2, however if and when they release the M5 Multitronic Unit, I will definitely have a close look at that one.

My sandy bridge 2600k from 2011 is still perfectly fine for gaming and stuff. I can overclock it easily, but there's not even really a need to.

I did build a new desktop when zen3 came out at the end of 2020, but that was a spare-no-expense splurge on my part a few months after I spent 5 days in the hospital ICU with a surprise heart problem. Because of the supply issues, I didn't get the 5950x until 2021. I finally just got a "new" GPU about a month ago for a reasonable price on eBay, a 6800xt. I used a Corsair PSU from probably 2007. I figure I should be good for another decade!

My daughter is 3 right now. Maybe the 2600k based system will be her first computer in a few years. A step up from the Apple II my dad set up for me!

What in the world is bake-it-in-the-oven?
Oh, not sure what he meant exactly, but when I used to work soldering boards we used an oven to recover older boards. Basically with a little bit of heat all broken up parts can heal with it. Found this result on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCFiSB2Fuk

Literally baking your graphics card to reflow the solder
I had a nice imac in work in 2009. A few years later I brought it home to work from home. I added an ssd and some RAM. My wife is still using it for Google Docs and my kids for Minecraft and Netflix.
Ditto for my 2008 iMac. I boot it from an SSD connected via Thunderbolt. Not bad at all!
Never lose that spirit. Buy, run, and maintain what works for you.

I also have a machine from 2007 in regular service, though in a secondary role (file server, etc.), but my daily driver isn't that much newer (2013, still a rust drive). Both machines have generated and continue to generate plenty of productivity and revenue.

I find that a little overbuilding in the right areas, like choosing a first-gen quad core in 2007 (often considered overkill on forums at the time), will greatly help the chances of you creating something that will last.

It's important not to hoard, but there's tremendous value in finding and maintaining quality. The advantage of old things is that you can point survivorship bias in your favor. Buying new, but very selectively with an eye towards 20-100y duty cycles (and maintaining them, like you're doing!) greatly helps in the same way.

The flipside of this story is: if you're buying a new machine, get rid of the old one! The sooner the better, both for you (if you can get some money for it) and for the environment (the newer your machine is when you get rid of it, the more likely it is to prevent someone else from buying a new one).
The amount of time it takes to dissemble, photograph, describe, list on a site or two, answer email or sms questions, package, and finally ship spare PC components.

Yeah, no thanks, it can keep collecting dust.

I have a 2013 machine (dell latitude, 8GB, Intel i5 I think) that I still use and for most things I don't see a material difference vs my newer machines. The major difference is the form factor, the 2013 machine is a big brick, a newer xps or my macbook is way lighter and more portable, if that matters to you.
Talk about your OS!
It's seen Windows XP, Vista, 7, Ubuntu 18, Ubuntu 20, Kubuntu 20, Windows 10 (Education) and then Arch.

Currently dual booting the Arch and the 10.

I can't recall the last time I threw away a computer. Either I've repurposed or fixed my devices over the years, as you have. A few examples:

- When my partner replaced their desktop, I rebuilt the old one into a NAS. I had to get new hard drives and a SATA port card to make that one work.

- Current main computer is a desktop that I helped my friend build, which I bought back from him in 2013 or 2014 after he upgraded. I've had to replace the power supply and the graphics card; currently it has an RX 580 from 2017.

- Picked up most of my networking gear from my previous job as an IT consultant, including an HP JE008A switch and an old Sonicwall TZ210.

I've also got the IT pack-rat shelf full of equipment that I "might use someday" - a stack of Chromebooks, network switches, graphics cards, various bits and pieces.

The last piece of kit I actually spent real money on was an refurbished Dell R720, which I'm currently using as my VM server. I've added more RAM and drive space to it as I've needed.

My 2006 Mac Pro is still perfectly usable, regardless of what Apple claims. It's just loud. :(
Ha yes, 2008 Mac Pro here. Would be perfectly usable if it wasn't deprecated.
That violates the right of first sale, if they don't want to keep upgrading the OS they gotta let the users fork it.

So right of first sale means if I buy an eg book, I have the right to sell it used. If I buy a computer, I have the right to sell it used. So it should not become a brick right when I'm selling it.

They deprecated the 2006 WAY too soon. They blamed it on the 32bit EFI (same reason they didn't support gpu upgrades 2 years after release). It was pretty easy for a handful of major OSX releases to replace one or two files and boot it like normal. Everything worked fine. Was able to upgrade the gpu in a round about way as well. At one point I re-wired the sata bays to connect back to an areca raid controller. Then there was ssd and that kind of changed everything for "old computers."

I'd have it running linux today, possibly as my work machine, if it wasn't so loud and power hungry.

Brazil’s policy of massive import taxes and regulation to force electronics manufacturers to build local plants has distorted their marketplace so much that it’s really hard to compare it to other countries.
I tried to do this with every laptop I've bought: something that will last and be repairable. Three Dell XPS 13s later I'm buying a Starbook. I hope it'll be the last for a long, long time.

Desktops I've had more luck with - my last one that died did so in November last year. I've replaced it with a Udoo Bolt and I'm hoping to hang on to that for a decade, too.

Thinkpad T430 for me.

Bought a couple for the kids used, in 2015, and they're still going strong, albeit both have had screens, keyboards and fans replaced. But that's the beauty - the replacements are cheap enough to be worthwhile, and you can perform the replacement yourself with basic tools.

It's a shame laptops don't have more standardized modular interfaces, like desktops, so that replacements would be commoditized, and you could mix and match parts.

Meanwhile I'm on my third macbook in the same period (needed for work), due to software support, gpu failure, keyboard failure, etc, all too expensive to bother fixing, and my latest takes 3-4 times as long to start up as the T430s running xubuntu...

Admirable and well worth sharing. I'm originally from eastern Europe and understand and empathize with the perspective. We get quite the mixture here on HN, from SV perspective on salary and minimum acceptable HW, to more world wide stories :).

That being said, there are many reasons to stick with repairable old equipment, including "it still works".

So while I am not currently computing on anything from 2007 :), I have t420s laptops used on daily basis (February 2011),and my primary main desktop is chugging the amd fx8350 (2012). I use it for gaming, light room and Photoshop no problems! I live in Canada and have good income - but there's genuinely no reason for me to replace these. Like yourself, I've changed and fixed parts - particularly hard drives. But their hearts are still beating strong :).

Used a i7 3930k with 32GB Ram since 2012 with only upgrading to a 2080 TI from a 750. Did everything it needed to do and more (heavy vfx, editing, nibbling into machine learning) and still was usable for most of the things you threw at it. The board finally gave in after 10 years so I upgraded and the CPU is now framed and hanging above my new workstation. My computing devices all have the names of quake weapons but nothing will ever top - railgun.

For repurposing I often hunt for old broken radios to put a raspi in it and use it as smart speakers with mycroft, spotify connect and airplay connectify. If you get ones from quality brands the speakers are usually still in really good shape and you need nothing more than a small amp to use them. Add some yellow leds for lighting and you have a nice looking smart speaker for 30-40 bucks. I just love the aesthetic https://imgur.com/fZDEEyL

The two greatest problems in computing are: naming things, multithreading, and off-by-one errors. It looks like your comment helps me fix one of them. Computers (or more generally 'machines') in my network tend to be named stupidly, or at the very least uninspiredly. I will choose a pre-existing list of things that suit me, and name everything after them.

Thanks!

Cool story and congratulations on your work.

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I gave my 2010 macbook pro to my parents when I got a new one in 2015. They still use it to surf the internet and sometimes for netflix before bedtime. Its battery is so swollen that the lid cannot close anymore.

I also bought apple care but never had any chance to use it. Very impressive for a computer without any hardware failure for 12 years.

Yeah, I would get that battery replaced... if it ruptures, that's a metal-air fire that you do not want your parents to deal with....
That battery is a fire hazard.
The battery is a massive fire hazard. Show them videos of battery fires if they don’t see the point in replacing the battery.
Apple swore up and down that the bloated battery in my 2017 MBP was not a fire hazard. But I just paid $200 to replace it (plus tax!) even though their 'trade-in value' is about $250.

It feels lousy that they charge so much for the battery since this is a safety repair, and arguably caused by the fact that there were insufficient tolerances in the original build. This battery was put in circa 2019, when they replaced the keyboard/etc., so it's not even that old. I felt like I had a gun to my head since it could be a fire hazard.

I plan to upgrade to the am5 platform, same motherboard and cpu since 2012. i7 3770k, R9 390x

Also jumping on that Samsung qd oled train.

So I absolutely agree and applaud your effort and think that we should all generally endeavor to use our hardware until it breaks or is completely impossible to work with anymore. However. If you replaced the motherboard, the CPU, the graphics card, and the hard drive, how exactly are you calling this the same computer? Forget "minor upgrades", that's a proper Ship of Theseus - I guess you've got the same case and... some of the RAM? but what else is even left from the original?
The CPU, GPU and motherboard updates were very recent, about two years ago, and marked the proper end of that cycle.

Although, they still work and have been assembled into an empty case I scavenged, for use by another family member.

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