"For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed."
and sadly IE11 came bundled with even Windows Server 2022, so if you're creating a website for users who spend all their time administrating Windows servers, you still have to support IE11...
But they would also have Edge installed in Windows Server 2022. It's a very small population that has a trivial workaround: use the _default_ default browser that came with the server operating system.
Well, yes, "Just use a different browser" has always been a workaround that web developers can suggest to their users, but let me point out a more substantive problem with that recommendation:
Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023.
You're right, though, that basically anyone on any supported Windows operating system has an option available to them which probably takes less effort than that required for someone to add and maintain IE11 support to their website.
> Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023.
Do people browse generally available websites from cash registers? I'd assume they only browse internal portals.
There's a difference between "our website uses ActiveX which is unique to IE11, so we need to support IE11" and "our website is HTML/CSS/JS, and we need to support IE11". I do pity you, but I no longer have to pity other people :)
> Except that new browser won’t support Active-X or Java applets.
That's mostly just used for specialized websites/webapps I think (often internal)? You can still launch IE for that, and use Edge, Chrome, Firefox, or any other browser for regular browsing. It's not substantially different from using Electron for desktop apps when you think about it.
Many years ago I worked for a company that used an internal ActiveX-based application (which worked fairly well for us) and this is pretty much what everyone was doing.
The biggest hurdle is probably corporate policies and such that prevent installing any alternative to IE yourself and IT dept. doesn't want to provide you with one either, but at this point I think that's just $BigCorp's problem and I don't care any more. For the record: I take web compat fairly serious and made things compatible with IE11 up to last year, but there's a limit.
Edge has an IE mode which is essentially hosting a trident control in an edge host so you can still stop using iexplore.exe and use this as your exception case.
We've tested this at my company that hasn't finished getting rid of java applets and it is taking place of IE until we're done with migrating away from them.
Not really. This is the nuance that some people miss: you could only use the IE11 engine inside Edge when an administrator explicitly enabled your website to be there. This has two consequences:
a) All ActiveX extensions are dead. This is problematic if the reason why IE is still being used is because it required an ActiveX content to work (so you couldn't just flip the switch to IE11 compat mode in Edge, you need to rewrite it since three years ago)
b) if you're developing a public-facing website, you can stop worrying IE11, but if you're developing enterprise software you're still in hell for around seven years (give or take if Microsoft offers an ESU à la Windows 7).
That is a stretch; Windows Server 2022 includes Edge. And any Server 2022 user who goes out of their way to make IE11 the default should probably be fired.
Yep. We have a Window Server 2022 VM for testing sites in IE11 (we're in a Microsoft partnership thing so we need IE11 support) and after some recent updates it's been a pain in the ass to use IE even on purpose. Happy to not need it anymore.
Most of my Safari compat issues are on older iOS devices that don't get Safari upgrades, for better or worse those devices do last a long time and a lot of people resist upgrading Mac software.
The problem is a mountain of older ipads and iphones and ipods that aren't eligible for the latest major ios upgrades, and thus get stuck with an outdated safari/wkwebview/webkit implementation. This is only going to get worse as the EOL'd ipads these days are quite powerful and usable otherwise. And due to Apple policies banning bring-your-own-html-engine, firefox or chrome can't save them either :(
> I have had a design that broke only on Safari, and I would be at my wit end on how to fix it if I didn't have a Mac on hand.
I use BrowserStack for it; for just one issue a trail account is enough, if you use it for an open source project you can request free access, and for a business it's relatively cheap.
I've got a pro account for a few of my open source projects; I don't often use it, but have on occasion (for things like you describe, and I don't have a Mac on hand).
Your second source is more of an argument to keep Safari around. If the Chrome/Safari duopoly on mobile is a problem, getting rid of Safari makes it worse.
Windows server, use Linux instead, it is possible to do this with samba for long time, I had this setup with samba for 50+ hosts with AD/GPO/Storage all working, this was more then 6 years ago.
The only companies that make this work are engineering their own solutions. I hope that broadcom acquiring vmware will inspire the competition to be a little better in this regard, but it'll be awhile and lately the market has been swinging towards cloud desktops instead of onprem vm hosts.
I don't know about cloud stuff much to be honest, if I would do it today, Linux server would also PXE booting Windows hosts (well samba servers are also PXE booted), that are cheap Mini PC's, I like having everything on premise, dual cheap servers + pfsense router (used would do it) will easily support 100+ hosts, with offsite full backup to rsync.net, I can see how samba servers can be in closest data center, instead of on premise.
Outlook still used IE11 for some of its functionality up to Office 2021, until Microsoft recently patched it to use Edge. 2013 to 2019 still use IE11 for rendering some functionality inside Outlook. And of course MS Word (!) for rendering emails.
I was working a defense project last year where the whole UI is a java applet that requires IE. I wonder if they're still charging ahead with the implementation.
If it’s just for Java that’s not really a problem. They might be able to run the applet directly with appletviewer, or repackage it for Java Web Start. Otherwise, CheerpJ has a solution for continuing to run the applet in the browser by converting it to WASM.
If you try to open a host from that list in IE11, it will open in Edge instead. The process really is just sending them an email, so I did it for my personal site which still received occasional IE11 traffic from "yesteryear's megacorp" IP ranges. I don't have enough IE11 traffic to judge if it worked for these poor users, though it does on my Windows PC. Given my effort was literally sending a single email and wait a month, I am happy even if it helps only a few people.
Something similar to robots.txt? Yeah, I'm not sure why MS didn't allow that one. Actual DNS TXT records? Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity).
Yeah, I won't name names but a well-known firewall provider also interecpts MX records (apparently to prevent spam mails sent from the firewalled network, but blocking port 25 would be much better if that's your goal).
Out of IE, Firefox and Chrome (and presumably also Safari, given its shared history with Chrome, but I can't test it), curiously enough IE(11) was the only one [1] to allow properly selecting and copying generated content, i.e. text added via the CSS "quotes:" or "content:" properties.
Firefox/Gecko at least does a workaround for handling quotation marks (though it is rather hacky, because it always copies them as a standard ASCII double quotation mark instead of whatever typographically more appropriate character the page might actually be using, and it always adds both opening and closing quotation marks even if the selection only straddles one of them), but gives up for free-form text added via "content:", and Blink and presumably also Webkit don't handle that kind of content at all.
[1] I've already forgotten how the old Edge based on EdgeHTML handled that scenario.
56 comments
[ 5.8 ms ] story [ 120 ms ] thread"For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed."
and sadly IE11 came bundled with even Windows Server 2022, so if you're creating a website for users who spend all their time administrating Windows servers, you still have to support IE11...
Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023.
You're right, though, that basically anyone on any supported Windows operating system has an option available to them which probably takes less effort than that required for someone to add and maintain IE11 support to their website.
Do people browse generally available websites from cash registers? I'd assume they only browse internal portals.
Yes those still exist. Yes they are needed. Yes I have to support them.
Pity me.
That's mostly just used for specialized websites/webapps I think (often internal)? You can still launch IE for that, and use Edge, Chrome, Firefox, or any other browser for regular browsing. It's not substantially different from using Electron for desktop apps when you think about it.
Many years ago I worked for a company that used an internal ActiveX-based application (which worked fairly well for us) and this is pretty much what everyone was doing.
The biggest hurdle is probably corporate policies and such that prevent installing any alternative to IE yourself and IT dept. doesn't want to provide you with one either, but at this point I think that's just $BigCorp's problem and I don't care any more. For the record: I take web compat fairly serious and made things compatible with IE11 up to last year, but there's a limit.
The process to replace that feature is not done. So here I am.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode
We've tested this at my company that hasn't finished getting rid of java applets and it is taking place of IE until we're done with migrating away from them.
a) All ActiveX extensions are dead. This is problematic if the reason why IE is still being used is because it required an ActiveX content to work (so you couldn't just flip the switch to IE11 compat mode in Edge, you need to rewrite it since three years ago)
b) if you're developing a public-facing website, you can stop worrying IE11, but if you're developing enterprise software you're still in hell for around seven years (give or take if Microsoft offers an ESU à la Windows 7).
I was watching a doctor yesterday use a patient admin portal in IE.
[0] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming...
[1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-agen...
Webkit is doing pretty good on https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 so I'm not sure why Safari should be retired.
I have had a design that broke only on Safari, and I would be at my wit end on how to fix it if I didn't have a Mac on hand.
Even Microsoft still provide VM with IE8 [0] for testing purpose.
0: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...
I use BrowserStack for it; for just one issue a trail account is enough, if you use it for an open source project you can request free access, and for a business it's relatively cheap.
I've got a pro account for a few of my open source projects; I don't often use it, but have on occasion (for things like you describe, and I don't have a Mac on hand).
Some time in the last couple of years, it needed an OS update that took a couple of resident Apple experts to get through.
Edit: oh, I should add:
The main data from your first source is out-of-date... Here's the dashboard today: https://wpt.fyi/compat2021?feature=summary&stable
Your second source is more of an argument to keep Safari around. If the Chrome/Safari duopoly on mobile is a problem, getting rid of Safari makes it worse.
Karakun are on it though: https://openwebstart.com/
We only wish you could’ve died sooner.
If you try to open a host from that list in IE11, it will open in Edge instead. The process really is just sending them an email, so I did it for my personal site which still received occasional IE11 traffic from "yesteryear's megacorp" IP ranges. I don't have enough IE11 traffic to judge if it worked for these poor users, though it does on my Windows PC. Given my effort was literally sending a single email and wait a month, I am happy even if it helps only a few people.
Something similar to robots.txt? Yeah, I'm not sure why MS didn't allow that one. Actual DNS TXT records? Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity).
> Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity).
Seems not!
Use a good browser.
Firefox/Gecko at least does a workaround for handling quotation marks (though it is rather hacky, because it always copies them as a standard ASCII double quotation mark instead of whatever typographically more appropriate character the page might actually be using, and it always adds both opening and closing quotation marks even if the selection only straddles one of them), but gives up for free-form text added via "content:", and Blink and presumably also Webkit don't handle that kind of content at all.
[1] I've already forgotten how the old Edge based on EdgeHTML handled that scenario.