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Ask HN: How do I stop flip-flopping an important decision?

12 points by overclk64 ↗ HN
I've been indeterministically bouncing from one state to another (and back again) for longer than I would like to admit. Frankly, I'm in a while(1) loop, and I desperately need someone to hand me a 'break.' I would love to settle on the decision and act upon it. For context, I'm 28, a non-EU resident, and have been programming for five years.

I have always wanted to get a degree in software engineering. However, when I first considered going to university, my math skills were far below the level required for passing the entrance exam. Despite not knowing how to add two fractions, I was determined to get into the study program I wanted in the future. Fast-forward a few years: I invested about 2K hours, scattered across three years, in mathematics only. Besides math, I read and programmed a lot. I was very disciplined and covered about 70% of the university curriculum I was aiming for, including areas like computer architecture, computer networks, computer security, databases, operating systems, compilers, etc.

Considering that I have very high aspirations (migrating to EU/US, six-figure income, etc.), what should I do? There are some compelling things about enrolling in a university: I'm sure having a diploma is very valuable for the immigration process, and good networking can never hurt. But I keep seeing people who succeeded even without a degree. I don't know their path in detail, but I know they have done it, although they are usually EU residents. Anyway, an inevitable question arises: why haven't I enrolled earlier? It almost feels unfair now. I've put so much work into everything, and for what, only to start from the beginning again? Time is precious. Besides that, I'm a bit skeptical about how the networking part would turn out since I'd be 10+ years older than most students. On the other hand, I'm positive I would regret it for the rest of my life if I hadn't at least tried. I know that I would be miserable if I stayed here forever.

I just need someone to nudge me in the right direction with a convincing argument.

Thanks for reading.

19 comments

[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 43.6 ms ] thread
r2_pilot
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years old. The second best time is now.
aliswe
> why haven't I enrolled earlier?

Friend, your time is now. You can only do your best. Do your best, now.

Only God knows what lies ahead for you.

netsharc
If you can get a job offer from a EU company, the EU blue card scheme means you'll get a residence permit (visas are for tourists), and it doesn't strictly need a college degree but 3 years of experience[1].

But considering it feels like the world's economy is about to enter a new period of hurt (I think they're still looking for IT people?), maybe going to university now is not a bad idea, in the hopes that when you finish it in a few years, the world will be on its way to some sort of recovery.

If this were the 23rd of February and the war hadn't happened, I'd say if you have the skills/experience, apply to companies in e.g. Germany, they were seemingly so desperate for IT people that anyone competent could get a contract, and the visa sponsorship (that's been made less bureaucratic).

IMO, contact recruitment agencies in Europe and see if the agent's got the hots for you, they should know the market, and if they think you're qualified for a job, they'll be really keen to talk to you, because they want to place you and earn that commission. If they're not that keen, it's either the market or your qualifications, maybe they'll give you a straight answer.

[1] Question 1 on https://www.apply.eu/Questions/

overclk64
Yeah, I've seen the Blue Card program. I find it hard to believe that a degree and 3 years of experience are absolutely equivalent? Is that really so, or just 'on paper'?
netsharc
Well, a recruitment agent or HR person with experience would probably know the answer to your question.

But reading your comment, my first reaction to "I find it hard to believe" is "Are you just looking for excuses to not take action?".

cwdegidio
Do it! I was a self-taught developer for about 8 years before I finally decided to go back to school. I talked myself out of it many, many times. Then right before covid, I decided I wasn't getting any younger. So I literally sat down with an intro to algebra book and took it from there. I'm 42 now and just graduated with my BSCS degree. My only regret is not doing it sooner. Did it do anything for my career? I don't know yet, but what it did do is show me that I can accomplish my goals when I focus. I learned a lot about a subject I love and am an all around happier person for it. Now I'm not waiting anymore and will be moving onto my MS immediately.

Don't think let yourself talk you out of something you want.

overclk64
I see. I'm glad you've done it. Congratulations! Now I badly want to do it, too. :) Sometimes, I see people talking self-taught programmers down because of their lack of formal training. Have you experienced that earlier?
cwdegidio
I did actually. At one place I went from a average dev to a lead over a 3 year hard grind. My team merged with another and I ended up with a guy that was in his early twenties, recent CS grad, and no real world experience outside of the 3 months he was with the team that we merged with. As soon as he found out I had no degree the sh$& talking started. Loved to take digs at me, questioned every decision I made. It was bad enough that I nearly left the field.

But that was one of the motivators. Just having someone like that made me wake up one day and think “I’m never going to treat someone like that in this industry and I sure as heck am not going to give anyone else the reason to do it to me again.”

There are teams out there that don’t care as long as your a good team member. But sometimes you meet that one person that has a giant chip on their shoulder.

kurupt213
Are you bipolar?

Serious question. You may need a mood stabilizer

overclk64
I don't think my introspection qualifies as objective diagnosis :)
JacobAldridge
One question I find can help is "What's the worst that can happen if I make the wrong decision?"

If you enrol to a university and hate it ... well, you can drop out / change majors / return to your life again, perhaps in a matter a months.

If you don't enrol? Well, in your own words, you "would be miserable".

toast0
I don't know about EU immigration, but a university degree greatly helps with US immigration; even more so if the degree was attained in the US. It's certainly possible to do well in this industry without formal education, but it would be a lot harder to immigrate. Jumping through the hoops of formal education shows the ability to jump through society's hoops, which makes you a better candidate for immigration and integration into society and the hoop jumping that's required.

> Anyway, an inevitable question arises: why haven't I enrolled earlier?

You answered that; you weren't prepared, you took the time to prepare. Easy peasy. Actually, a lot of universities are looking for the diversity that older students bring, even when older student is just 10ish years; you've probably got a lot of life experience that others don't have.

overclk64
I saw that you need a graduate degree for the Blue Card (for the EU), or 3 (or 5?) years of experience. Somehow, having a degree looks like a safer bet in my eyes. It could be that they're entirely equivalent, I find it hard to check that.

Yeah, I agree. I guess I should figure out if immigration is something that's absolutely necessary. I'm frustrated by my home country (see my other comment), but sometimes I come to terms with it (although not for long).

> you've probably got a lot of life experience that others don't have.

Indeed.

creakingstairs
I'm a self taught engineer. The hardest part was getting an interview through the automated filtering and having a relevant degree may have helped with that. Could you try to job hunt and enrol at the same time? In NZ, universities give full refund if you drop out after a while (and a partial one after certain time), so you could drop out if you manage to find a junior position.

Also,

> why haven't I enrolled earlier? It almost feels unfair now. I've put so much work into everything, and for what, only to start from the beginning again?

You won't necessary start from the beginning. You will be able to excel in your courses and dig deeper with your current knowledge!

overclk64
> You won't necessary start from the beginning. You will be able to excel in your courses and dig deeper with your current knowledge!

That's a good point. Not that the admiration of my peers would hurt. :) If I decide to enroll, I'll probably try to find [at least] a part-time job, because I'm a bit thirsty when it comes to money. If not, I'll be looking for full-time employment.

2143
I don't know what you should do, but just keep the following in mind:

- For high income America might be a better place. But it's also more expensive. So is money really what you want, or do you want a good happy life?

- Depending on your home country, immigration to the US can be hard. Getting a work visa can also be hard.

- University is expensive in the US, unless you find a way to get funded. But if you are US educated it becomes easier to get a job in US.

- I barely remember what I learnt at uni ;)

- Did you try getting into FAANG or similar? If I were in your situation, that's probably what I'd do.

- If it's wealth that you're after, then it's a totally different game. Understand how money works, and carefully play that game.

overclk64
I'm not looking for money per se. I see it as something that could help me get, for example, a house in a more civilized and less corrupt country where I'll be able to start building a life. Sometimes I get this crazy idea that it'd be possible to do that here, but the reality of living here (soaring crime rate, double-digit inflation, corrupt system, etc.) quickly confutes me. Regarding universities, I'd do one here because the quality/price ratio is still more than reasonable. I haven't tried applying for jobs yet, as this whole university thing still looms over my head. The plan is to make the decision as soon as possible and act accordingly (either start interviewing or return to school.)
m3talsmith
This may seem useless, but stop questioning yourself: make a choice, wrong or right, and stick with it. Making a choice, and learning to work around the consequences, is one of the most important character building events you will ever experience. Make a choice, resolve to stick through it no matter what.